Sovtek 12AX7WXT in Real T
Dr.Distortion
wrote:
LE>I just ordered a bunch of Sovtek 12AX7WXT's for my Bassman and got a
LE>couple extra just in case. I was wondering if anybody tried sticking
LE>one in their Real Tube pedal and if so, what did you think of the result?
Well, shit... why are you asking us? Try it and find out. It only takes
a minute or so to loosen the four screws, remove the tube, put in the
new tube and replace the bottom cover.
I have a Real Tube, and I think it sounds like shit. It has a Groove
Tubes 12AX7 in it, but I haven't tried other tubes yet. Maybe I will...
________________________________________________
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/ ==|== \ / ==|== \
| --------|--\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/--|-------- |
-|-------- | /\/\/DOCTOR/\/\/\/ | --------|-
\_|~~~|_/ /\/\/DISTORTION\/\/\/ \_|~~~|_/
~~~| /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |~~~
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Lee Reese
>l...@Gwinnett.COM (Lee Reese)
>wrote:
>
>LE>I just ordered a bunch of Sovtek 12AX7WXT's for my Bassman and got a
>LE>couple extra just in case. I was wondering if anybody tried sticking
>LE>one in their Real Tube pedal and if so, what did you think of the result?
>
>Well, shit... why are you asking us? Try it and find out. It only takes
>a minute or so to loosen the four screws, remove the tube, put in the
>new tube and replace the bottom cover.
I will when I get them. They are coming from AES in Arizona and should
be here around the end of next week. I will report my results soon
thereafter.
> I have a Real Tube, and I think it sounds like shit. It has a Groove
>Tubes 12AX7 in it, but I haven't tried other tubes yet. Maybe I will...
>
It works decently with my Clapton Strat except for the noise, but it
truly sucks with my SRV and 40th anniversary Strats. It will have to do
until I can find something better in terms of simulating a overdriven
tube amp.
Lee
chris
Steve
Mike Sirmans
: wrote:
: LE>I just ordered a bunch of Sovtek 12AX7WXT's for my Bassman and got a
: LE>couple extra just in case. I was wondering if anybody tried sticking
: LE>one in their Real Tube pedal and if so, what did you think of the result?
I had the REAL-TUBE rack unit, which is the same basic circuit... and
replaced the stock 12ax7 with an NOS RCA-made-in-Great-Britan 12AX7.
The difference was amazing. Most of the 12AX7's nowadays, INCLUDING the
SOVTEKs and others, have a small internal structure which is about 3/4
of an inch in length. The older (and original 12AX7s which were marketed
in the states years ago, had an internal structure that was almost an inch
long. The increased plate surface area DOES increase the interelectrode
capacitances, but the gain figure is also greater than current tubes
produced by SOVTEK. IMHO the older tubes sounded much better and
performed better in my REAL-TUBE preamp. The SOVTEK 12AX7wbt sucked
terribly by comparison. It had much LOWER gain than the older tube and
sounded a bit "dry". The gearhead who recommended the WBT obviously
never tried the RCA NOS tubes.
Like an idiot, I sold the unit with the 25-year old RCA (perfect) tube
still in it. I should have replaced it with the original REAL-TUBE 12ax7.
My Hafler HELLRAZOR preamp uses 2 12AX7s for a wonderful british-like
tone, or clean Fender tones. It came brand new with chinese silk-screened
tubes from Hafler. They were replaced with SOVTEK 12AX7WA's as soon
as I could get the cash. 270-volts on the plate of a 12AX7 sounds much
better than the 32-volts in the REAL-TUBE ever did. Sometimes it is
the supporting circuitry as much as it is the tube...
--
Michael G. Sirmans ____/|
sir...@netcom.com \ o O| "Ack! Thhhhhhp!"
=(_^_)=
U
"It is by my own hand that I set my mind in motion..." - DUNE
Dr.Distortion
: I put an old Fisher (W. German) 12AX7W in mine and threw away the "Real Tube"
: tube that was in it. It has a very warm break up now, and the distortion is
: much more to my liking. I really believe it has to do with the quality of the
: old tube I put in it.
Ahhh... that's probably a Fisher-branded Telefunken. Teles are some
fantastic tubes. Come to think of it, I have a pile of old Amperex
12AX7s... I'll try them in my Real Tube, just for the hell of it.
(I've already built a tube fuzzbox that I like much better than
the Real Tube...).
--Dr.Distortion
Kobe's local login
I put an old Fisher (W. German) 12AX7W in mine and threw away the "Real Tube"
tube that was in it. It has a very warm break up now, and the distortion is
much more to my liking. I really believe it has to do with the quality of the
old tube I put in it.
Kobe
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karl Oberlander
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
cefa...@pica.army.mil
<cut>
>The difference was amazing. Most of the 12AX7's nowadays, INCLUDING the
>SOVTEKs and others, have a small internal structure which is about 3/4
>of an inch in length. The older (and original 12AX7s which were marketed
>in the states years ago, had an internal structure that was almost an inch
>long. The increased plate surface area DOES increase the interelectrode
>capacitances, but the gain figure is also greater than current tubes
>produced by SOVTEK. IMHO the older tubes sounded much better and
...yeah, I noticed the difference in internal structure length, too.
Can anyone comment on whether or not this makes a difference? Are the
longer ones better? (no sexual pun implied).
John "Bigger is Better" Cefaloni
Kobe's local login
Cool, wish I could build some gear myself, but alas, I'm not that well versed
in electronics.
I do however have a bunch (box full) of old tubes that I had left over from
my old tube audio gear days. Thats where I grabbed the old Fisher. It probably
is a Telefunken. I would have used a Telefunken or a Mullard, but I put those
in my Super Reverb, and it sounds very nice indeed. I also have Sovetk 6L6
power tubes in it that I'm going to replace with some RCA's that I have in
the box. Haven't done it yet because I wanted to really give the Sovteks
a try out, they were in the amp when I bought it.
I also havd a slew of EL-34's and EL-84's some 6550's and some smaller ones that
I haven't seen used in any guitar amps so far. I'm going to look up the cross
ref and see if any of them can work replacing a 6V6, and try them in on of my
Silverface Champs.
BTW Dr. D. What's your opinion of the blackface Fender Deluxe? I can get one
down here for around $400 in I move pretty soon. It appears very pristine
on the outside and the amp chassis is not corroded like so many older ones
I've seen. It is the AA-763 head and is Serial #00114 the date code is MB I think
but it is kinda obscured. It doesn't have the reverb circuit, but I thought I
would get a Reissue reverb unit since they are reasonably priced.
Thanks
Tremolux
$400 is a stral, you can re-sell it for a tidy profit to a collector.
Also the AA series circuits are the original Blackface!!
Regards.
William G. Sacks
: LE>I just ordered a bunch of Sovtek 12AX7WXT's for my Bassman and got a
: LE>couple extra just in case. I was wondering if anybody tried sticking
: LE>one in their Real Tube pedal and if so, what did you think of the result?
: I have a Real Tube, and I think it sounds like shit. It has a Groove
: Tubes 12AX7 in it, but I haven't tried other tubes yet. Maybe I will...
Yeah, a bandmate recently opted for a RT, and switching the tube
to a (Boogie, not that it matters) 12AT7 made all the difference. That
damned op-amp fuzzes the AX out to extremes- you need the lower-gain
design to maintain some of your pick-ups' dynamics.
Tremolux
Deluxe Reverb by taking the time to experiment with different brand tubes
in the various locations. They do make a difference. I ended up with a
Telefunken as the preamp (Vib channel), an Amperex to drive the pan, a
Mullard for reverb recovery/3rd preamp, and a real strong (on my tube
tester) GE 6201 for phase inverter. That thing never sounded so good.
Regards.
Dr.Distortion
: : l...@Gwinnett.COM (Lee Reese)
: : wrote:
: terribly by comparison. It had much LOWER gain than the older tube and
: sounded a bit "dry". The gearhead who recommended the WBT obviously
: never tried the RCA NOS tubes.
There is no WBT, so you must be referring to the WXT. I recommended
that tube because I assumed the poster was asking about NEW tubes;
after all, not everybody has the time to chase after old-manufacture
tubes. I have shitloads of RCAs, by the way, and at reasonable plate
voltages (like you'd find in a guitar amp, not in the "Real Tube")
the Sovteks compare favorably.
: tubes from Hafler. They were replaced with SOVTEK 12AX7WA's as soon
: as I could get the cash. 270-volts on the plate of a 12AX7 sounds much
: better than the 32-volts in the REAL-TUBE ever did. Sometimes it is
: the supporting circuitry as much as it is the tube...
Precisely... It's worth the time to experiment with different tubes, to
find which works best in your circuit.
________________________________________________
_ | _ _ | _
/ ==|== \ / ==|== \
| --------|--\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/--|-------- |
-|-------- | /\/\/DOCTOR/\/\/\/ | --------|-
\_|~~~|_/ /\/\/DISTORTION\/\/\/ \_|~~~|_/
~~~| /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |~~~
-----*STAUDCO*---*New York*--*dst...@cris.com*---
Alternate address: dst...@mhv.net
Roberto Bayardo
>In article <39eqq0$c...@voyager.cris.com> Dst...@voyager.cris.com (Dr.Distortion) writes:
>>l...@Gwinnett.COM (Lee Reese)
>>wrote:
>>
>>LE>I just ordered a bunch of Sovtek 12AX7WXT's for my Bassman and got a
>>LE>couple extra just in case. I was wondering if anybody tried sticking
>>LE>one in their Real Tube pedal and if so, what did you think of the result?
>>
>>Well, shit... why are you asking us? Try it and find out. It only takes
>>a minute or so to loosen the four screws, remove the tube, put in the
>>new tube and replace the bottom cover.
>
>I will when I get them. They are coming from AES in Arizona and should
>be here around the end of next week. I will report my results soon
>thereafter.
Don't bother. I tried it and it didn't work well at all. Replacing the
original tube with the Sovtek 12AX7WXT reduced the gain so much that
it was pretty much unusable because the sound became so thin. Also,
with the Sovtek, the bypassed sound was louder than the active sound
even when the "output" knob was cranked!
I tried this both with the foot pedal AND the rack mount
version and got the same result. Bummer! I was hoping for much more!
I then tried replacing the stock tubes with a Sovtek 12AX7WA. This
reduced the gain and output only slightly, but improved the sound of
only the foot pedal (which had a very old original tube-- I suspect it
was going bad).
The rack mount sounded best with its original tube. No question about
it.
I suspect the "hi gain" 12AX7WXT's don't work in the Real Tubes
because what you actually want is a low-quality tube that overdrives
easily. I looked at the circuit and it appears that an op-amp drives
high signal levels into the tube. With a good tube that can handle the
signal, you don't get any overdrive! I would guess that only the tube
preamps with more than one tube fare better with these Sovteks.
Roberto Bayardo
bay...@cs.utexas.edu
Kobe's Local Login
Date: 7 Nov 1994 15:50:14 GMT
In article <Cyts...@Gwinnett.COM>, l...@Gwinnett.COM (Lee Reese) writes:
|> In article <39eqq0$c...@voyager.cris.com> Dst...@voyager.cris.com
(Dr.Distortion) writes:
|> >l...@Gwinnett.COM (Lee Reese)
|> >wrote:
|> >
|> >LE>I just ordered a bunch of Sovtek 12AX7WXT's for my Bassman and got a
|> >LE>couple extra just in case. I was wondering if anybody tried sticking
|> >LE>one in their Real Tube pedal and if so, what did you think of the
result?
|> >
|> >Well, shit... why are you asking us? Try it and find out. It only takes
|> >a minute or so to loosen the four screws, remove the tube, put in the
|> >new tube and replace the bottom cover.
|>
|> I will when I get them. They are coming from AES in Arizona and should
|> be here around the end of next week. I will report my results soon
|> thereafter.
|>
|> > I have a Real Tube, and I think it sounds like shit. It has a Groove
|> >Tubes 12AX7 in it, but I haven't tried other tubes yet. Maybe I will...
|> >
|> It works decently with my Clapton Strat except for the noise, but it
|> truly sucks with my SRV and 40th anniversary Strats. It will have to do
|> until I can find something better in terms of simulating a overdriven
|> tube amp.
I put an old Fisher (W. German) 12AX7W in mine and threw away the "Real Tube"
tube that was in it. It has a very warm break up now, and the distortion is
much more to my liking. I really believe it has to do with the quality of the
old tube I put in it.
Kobe
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karl Oberlander
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---
* Origin: The GeneSplicer's <-> Internet Gateway (1:209/10)
cefa...@realpro.uucp.netcom.com
Pete Lyall
: Roberto Bayardo
: bay...@cs.utexas.edu
Don't forget - the Real Tube products supposedly have MUCH lower plate
voltage (B+) ... I'm sure this is at least part of the problem.
Pete Lyall
Kobe's local login
I switched the 12AX7 in my RT out for an old W. German Fisher (probably a telefunken) and
the sound really im[orved. It has a consistant break up now and is sweeter. I've not
tried the 12AT7 switch out, but I guess I could. I a bunch of old 12AT7's around too.
Dr.Distortion
: I suspect the "hi gain" 12AX7WXT's don't work in the Real Tubes
: because what you actually want is a low-quality tube that overdrives
: easily. I looked at the circuit and it appears that an op-amp drives
: high signal levels into the tube. With a good tube that can handle the
: signal, you don't get any overdrive! I would guess that only the tube
: preamps with more than one tube fare better with these Sovteks.
: Roberto Bayardo
That's an interesting observation, but ANY tube should overdrive
easily if the bias point is in the "right" place. Also, low-voltage
operation (like in the Real Tube) will put damn near any tube into
starvation and the nonlinear region of its operating curve. Still,
these are all "shoulds", and of course real-life results may vary.
Personally, I think it's gonna take more than a new tube to make
a Real Tube sound good.
As for the Sovteks: I use them in my dual-tube pedal (with about
80-120V on the plate, depending on the model) and they overdrive
very nicely.
________________________________________________
_ | _ _ | _
/ ==|== \ / ==|== \
| --------|--\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/--|-------- |
-|-------- | /\/\/DOCTOR/\/\/\/ | --------|-
\_|~~~|_/ /\/\/DISTORTION\/\/\/ \_|~~~|_/
~~~| /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |~~~
-----*STAUDCO*---*New York*--*dst...@cris.com*---
Alternate address: dst...@mhv.net
sean kerns
Just as an aside, this trick also works for changing the tonal
characteristics of TubeWorks amplifiers. I thought the distortion in
my Tube Driver combo (now a bodyless chassis thanks to the TubeWorks
speaker self destructing from the voice-coil...) was a little too
harsh and "brappy" sounding, so when I had it apart to fix another
problem, I tried switching different 12A_7 tubes in for the generic-
looking 12AX7A that came with it. I settled on a Mesa 12AX7W------
something or other; gives smoother, more pleasant distortion, and more
drive.
