Gibson L-5 (and general archtop) Information wanted
Michael G. Goldsman
Namely:
Is the Gibson L-5 still made? (what about the
What different models of the L-5 are available?
(Are the any non-cutaway non-electric models?)
Hows the used market for them?
Is it possible to get older ones for less than multi-thousands?
What about other archtops?
(like Epiphone, etc..)
Does anyone play archtops anymore?
thanks!
-Mike
harry avant
Yes it is still made. Why not contact Gibson? Not all dealers carry the
L-5. Good used ones go for $3000 - $10,000 depending on year and
condition.
I have '43 Epiphone and I will match it up to many L-5s. Also check out
Heritage, they make good archtops. Several custom makers offer instruments
as good as or better that L-5s. Try for example Mark Campellone in
Providence Rhode Island. For around $3000 you can get a great custom built
archtop.My 18inch from him was 3,500 and it is a great sounding and great
looking guitar.
Harry Avant Jet Propulsion Lab, Pasadena CA 91109
(818) 354-3985
hav...@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov
Jonathan Byrd
Is the Gibson L-5 still made? (what about the
What different models of the L-5 are available?
(Are the any non-cutaway non-electric models?)
I recently checked out a Gibson catalog. They do make the L-5, as
well as the Super 400, in acoustic and electric models, with or
without cutaway. The L-5 and Super 400 are very similar, except that
the Super 400 body is a little larger. Gibson also offers several
other versions of electric archtops that I wasn't familiar with, some
with round soundholes, instead of f-shaped holes.
Hows the used market for them?
Is it possible to get older ones for less than multi-thousands?
The market for used archtops is pretty good, from what I understand.
Check out the advertisements in Acoustic Guitar magazine. Several
large shops carry used archtops, and a few claim to specialize in
them.
What about other archtops?
(like Epiphone, etc..)
If you want to seriously examine the vintage archtop market, you'll
want to spend a little money on a good book. There are a lot of
different models out there, and the quality of materials and
workmanship may fluctuate for a given model from year to year.
Does anyone play archtops anymore?
I will be playing one, as soon as I can win an argument:
"No!"
"But honey, it costs less than a new car! And I'll play it in
bars and coffee shops until I pay it all back."
"No! You have a new guitar. You have FOUR guitars!"
"It's a flat top! And the others are electrics! You can't
expect me to play Jazz on those."
"Django played a flat top."
"Leave Django out of this! You're just trying to make me feel
inferior."
"It's me, or the archtop. Take your pick."
"Hmm...."
"You'd better not be thinking what I think you're thinking. A
guitar won't keep you warm at night."
"But I can't hold you on my knee, and play 'Sweet Georgia
Brown' on you."
"How do you know? You've never tried."
[The rest is omitted, out of respect for the wholesome,
family-oriented nature of this newsgroup.]
--
jonathan byrd
j...@apollo.med.utah.edu
Frank Coffman
>Namely:
>Is the Gibson L-5 still made? (what about the
Yep. It's part of Gibson's "Historical Series"
>What different models of the L-5 are available?
>(Are the any non-cutaway non-electric models?)
In electrics, they have the regular L-5CES (2 pu cutaway), the
Wes Montgomery (1 pu cutaway), and the L-5 Gobel reissue (1 floating
pu). I think the L-5 is also available as an acoustic with or
without cutaway. The electrics go from $4 - 6k, I believe.
>Hows the used market for them?
>Is it possible to get older ones for less than multi-thousands?
I dont think you could get a good used L-5 CES for less than $3000
>What about other archtops?
>(like Epiphone, etc..)
Gibson has several other models, including the Herb Ellis ( a 1 pu
es-175, starts ~ $1000), es-175 ($1400 - $1800), L-4CES ($1800 - $3500),
Tal Farlow ($2000 - $3000). Guilds are also good, as are Heritage.
For less than $1000, Epiphone & Washburn have a couple of models,
but I've never played them. The older Ibanez archtops are good guitars
and can be had for $600 or so, if you can find one.
>Does anyone play archtops anymore?
Every day!
>thanks!
>-Mike
--
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| Frank Coffman |FAA Technical Center, Mail Stop ACN-400c |
| fra...@tgf.tc.faa.gov |Atlantic City Int'l Airport, NJ 08405 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony David Thomas
is ridiculously high. Maybe $4000-6000? As for the used market I
picked up a Super V (L-5 body/Super 400 neck) in the late 80's for
$1500 although I think the prices are a little higher these days.
Also, I had a real hard time finding this guitar at the time. I was
living in the midwest and finally ran across it when I was visting a
friend in L.A. Hope you run across a nice example of one of Gibson's
wonderful archtops as IMO there is nothing that can compare to the
tone.
Tony
Fran Guidry
Michael G. Goldsman <mi...@cad.gatech.edu> wrote:
>
>Is the Gibson L-5 still made? (what about the
>What different models of the L-5 are available?
>(Are the any non-cutaway non-electric models?)
Yes the L-5 is still made. Don't exactly know which models
are in production, but there are several.
>Hows the used market for them?
>Is it possible to get older ones for less than multi-thousands?
'Fraid not, based on a recent (was it October?) Guitar Player Mag.
They featured archtops and indicated taht the market for top
grade carved top guitars has gone through the roof.
>What about other archtops?
>(like Epiphone, etc..)
As above, the market for vintage and new carved top guitars
seems quite strong.
>Does anyone play archtops anymore?
Apparently they're experiencing something of a boom, but I
haven't seen Guns'n'Roses smashing any, so maybe they haven't
really taken off <g>.
Fran
Gerald B. Ross
guitars of Kalamazoo MI. This company is located in the old Gibson factory
and run by
a small group of former Gibson employees. I was just there last week and
was very impressed. It is a small shop operation run by very friendly people
who truly care about their products. I received a factory tour (with no
begging and pleading on my part) and they fixed my guitar and set it up for
free ( I have
a Heritage Johnny Smith). Call them for a catalog. You won't be sorry.
Today's Gibson equivalent of the Heritage Johnny Smith is called the
LeGrand. This guitar sells for appr. $5000. The JS sells for $3000.
__________________________________________
Gerald Ross
University of Michigan Medical Center
Larry Grinnell
Mike,
The Gibson L-5 has been in continuous production since late 1922. At the
present time there are several L-5s in the catalog:
L-5 CES (cutaway, electric--2 humbuckers, Spanish)
L-5 CESN (same as above but with natural [blonde] finish)
L-5 CT (So-called "George Gobel" model--2-3/8 inches wide, cherry finish
acoustic w/optional floating Johnny Smith pickup, 24-3/4 inch scale
length). My uncle, former Gibson clinician/salesman Andy Nelson,
designed this model for Gobel back in about 1958--Gibson only built
43 originally, but demand has been sufficient to recatalog it.
L-5 Vintage Series Reissue (1929 model with large pearloid block inlays,
16 inch body, "The Gibson" on headstock, original super-wide neck)
I don't think the L-5 C is still in the catalog (the straight acoustic
model, but the Custom Shop, as always, can do pretty much anything you
want.
Prices range from under $4,000 for the 20s L-5 reissue to about $8-9000 for
an L-5 CESN with all the trimmings. Custom Shop work, of course, will add
to the price. These are all retail prices. Dealer markup is between 50-100%
so bargains can usually be made.
Used L-5s run as low as around $1500 for well-used and non-original
examples
up to $20,000 or more for a 1939-1941 blonde cutaway in tip-top shape.
Examples built in the 1970s and 80s command the lowest prices, but then
again, workmanship was nowhere near the level it was from the 1940s-1960s.
If you are looking for a bargain in a good playing solid spruce top,
maple rims and back archtop, consider going down a rung to a good L-7
(same body size but less fancy trim). These were only sold as acoustics
to the best of my knowledge but many have been modified with floating
pickups or butchered with top-mounted humbuckers. Gibson cancelled the line
in 1969 (I think). Also look at the 16 inch L-4. It, too, has a solid
spruce
top and solid maple back and rims--almost like a super deluxe ES-175
with the same sharp cutaway.
Dr. Tom Van Hoose (famed collector and author of that lovely book on the
Super 400) owns two Gibson Custom Shop noncutaway guitars: an L-5 and a
Super 400, built in 1984 for a trade show. I don't know if any others
have been built in recent years. If you talk to the factory real nice and
show a lot of green, I'm sure they could accomodate you.
Another highly viable alernative is, as you mentioned yourself, an
Epiphone.
Highly underrated, probably because Gibson cheapened their name with the
Asian dreck that still carries the Epi name. Model parallels work like
this:
Epiphone Gibson Average Epi price
_________________________ _________ _______________________
Emperor (18-1/2" wide!) Super 400 $2,000-10,000
DeLuxe L-5 $1,500-7,500
Broadway (often Maple top) L-10/12 $1,000-5,000
Triumph L-7 $1,500-5,000
Anything made before 1970 is fair game. The Gibson-built Epis from
Kalamazoo were of equal or better quality than their Gibson bretheren.
New York Epiphones are also fine instruments, but the quality of their
electronics and hardware is not always up to that of Gibson. Many NY
Epiphones have been heavily modified over the years with better pickups,
Tune-O-Matics (see Duke Robillard's Deluxe), etc., so should also command
much lower prices. Gibson built Epiphones in their Kalamazoo factory from
1957/8 to about 1970 when everything was moved offshore. My uncle had a
magnificent acoustic Deluxe (a 1958-59 or thereabouts) with a DeArmond
pickup. What a lovely instrument! He sold it a few years ago to a
collector.
Acoustic versions of the above instruments usually command a much higher
price than the electric versions, probably due to their rarity and the
greater likelihood that they have not been owner-modified.
Epiphones are also unusual in their construction--i.e., electric versions
of some of their models have laminated (plywood) tops with a thin veneer
of highly-flamed maple. In particular, the Emperor was done this way. It
also had three pickups and a weird switchplate arrangement to switch in
and out combinations of pickups. Epiphone's justification for using
laminates was that in electric playing, the stiffer top reduced the
possibility of feedback. You decide.
Finally, if you are looking for a lot of value in an archtop, look no
further than Heritage. This line is built by former Gibson craftspeople
in the old Parsons Avenue factory in Kalamazoo. Street prices for an
"Eagle Classic" (an L-7 type instrument with solid spruce top, flamey
maple rims and back, single-bound body, fingerboard, and headstock,
and an ebony fingerboard) start at well under $2000. Even the L-5
equivalent, the Golden Eagle, starts at around four grand.
I've taken too long to answer this as it is. By the way, I don't play a
note. I do write occasional articles for Vintage Guitar magazine with
my uncle, however. He plays archtops...and a MIDI guitar, too!
Larry Grinnell
--
"He" who dies with the most fonts, wins...
Larry Grinnell, Motorola, Inc., Paging Products Group
Email to ELG...@email.mot.com
Larry Grinnell
Kevin Morgan
> (like Epiphone, etc..)
If $'s are an issue...check out the L4CES (assuming you are looking
for an electric). Still has the carved archtop and gold hardware but
costs thousands less than an L5. Mine (with the natural sunburst)
was ~1800 from Gryphon in Palo Alto CA; the Burgundy ones are cheaper
yet, maybe $1500-1600. I love mine. I assume you get something more
with an L5CES than just the name and the point do-hicky on the top of
the fretboard, but I'm honestly not too sure what. The L5 probably
has more resale value. If you're going to play it forever, you may
get more value for the $ with the L4.
-Kevin
Ed Hackett
K> If $'s are an issue...check out the L4CES (assuming you are looking
K> for an electric). Still has the carved archtop and gold hardware but
K> costs thousands less than an L5.
I've seen a couple of L-7's for sale recently at less than an arm and a
leg, too.
Ed Hackett
* Freddie 1.2.5 * The first full-featured QWK reader for the Mac.
Jonathan Byrd
I've seen a couple of L-7's for sale recently at less than an arm and a
leg, too.
I played two L-7s yesterday, a 1946, and a 1947. The 1947 guitar blew
the older one away. I was completely astounded at how differently
these two, apparently identical, guitars could sound. The younger
guitar sounded full, round, and open, while the older one was quiet,
and kind of tinny. The owner of the 1947 guitar purchased it for
$1500, and will part with it for $1800. I'm on the verge of snatching
it up.
All I need now is a ski mask, and a sawed-off shotgun: "Forget the
till! Just give me all the arch tops!" ;->
--
jonathan byrd
j...@apollo.med.utah.edu
Ed Hackett
J> I was completely astounded at how differently these two, apparently
J> identical, guitars could sound.
I wonder if the difference could be caused in part by the strings?
J> All I need now is a ski mask, and a sawed-off shotgun: "Forget the
J> till! Just give me all the arch tops!"
A couple of years ago, I bought a Yamaha SA 2000 (a top of the line
semi-hollowbody) from a guy who owned 2 of these fine guitars. The other
was in pieces.
He was robbed at the mall, right before Christmas. As he was walking to
his car after a gig, some punk kid with a pistol took the guitar case
along with his wallet. I guess the perp figured he was too conspicuous
with the case. He ditched it, broke the neck off the guitar and put the
pieces in a grocery bag. He was arrested after he tried to sell the ruined
instrument to a guitar shop in the neighborhood. The suspicious owner
("what's a 14 year old gang banger doing with an expensive semi-hollowbody
busted into pieces?") called the po-lice.
He got his guitar back; he showed me the parts still in their "original"
grocery bag...never did find the wallet.
Archer Sully
;
; "It's a flat top! And the others are electrics! You can't
; expect me to play Jazz on those."
;
; "Django played a flat top."
;
; "Leave Django out of this! You're just trying to make me feel
; inferior."
You can always get one of the new DuPont Maccaferri (sp?) copies.
Cost ~$3K.
-- archer