PRS Swamp Ash Special -- It's History
George4908
A dealer at the Philly Guitar Show last weekend told me that PRS has killed the
Swamp Ash Special. Seems they had lots of problems getting decent wood, and
they were difficult and expensive to finish. A few tables down there was a
PRS factory booth and they confirmed it. Good news for SEFSTRAT -- yours just
went up in value. And come to think of it, good news for Samick -- what an
opportunity to seize the swamp ash market! (Now, who will buy my EG-3 with
Fralins, Seafoam Green, dead mint? I shouldn't be selling it, but alas,
something's got to go to pay for the Guild X-500 I picked up at the show.)
Matthew Ivaliotes
Well my obvious question is, "are they filling existing orders?" With the
EG, I believe they did. So I may luck out. If not, I have a couple
hunderd bucks or so coming back to me from payments I've made on my Swamp
Ash Special order.
Anyone confirm or deny the original report of Swamp Ash Special
cancellation?
Matt I.
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
In article <64ttpo$gc5$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) writes:
> Well my obvious question is, "are they filling existing orders?" With the
[snip]
> Anyone confirm or deny the original report of Swamp Ash Special
> cancellation?
>
> Matt I.
Actually both these things (SAS and EG-3) are a helluva good market ploy.
Next time PRS comes out with a "I think I might like to buy it" kind of
product, noone will want to hesitate and say "maybe next year".
Mickey Yahoo-Mooshoo
Pittsburgh, PA
Brian Meader
Hi All!
Spoke with head of sales at PRS yesterday morning. The Swamp Ash Special
has NOT been discontinued, nor are there any immediate plans to do so.
Brian Meader
Washington Music Center
(301)946-8808
FAX (301)933-4438
Email Sa...@wmcworld.com
http://www.wmcworld.com
DougA70320
>Subject: Re: PRS Swamp Ash Special -- It's History--NOT
>From: "Brian Meader" <Sa...@wmcworld.com>
>Date: Thu, Nov 20, 1997 07:19 EST
>Message-id: <6519vm$2cs$1...@news2.cais.com>
The folks at PRS told us the same thing. Paul was at our store on Tuesday
doing a presentation and he talked about the success of the
Swamp Ash Special. So of all the things in the world to worry about, it seems
like the abolition of the Swamp Ash Special isn't one of them. Thanks, Doug
(for anybody interested, please check out the .jpegs of Paul Reed
Smith's presentation at http://www.indoorstorm.com-us.net)
Thanks, Doug
George4908
>>Hi All! Spoke with head of sales at PRS yesterday morning.
The Swamp Ash Special has NOT been discontinued, nor
are there any immediate plans to do so.<<
>>Brian Meader
>>Washington Music Center
Brian, not trying to dispute what you've been told, but the PRS representatives
at the Philly show told me it was being discontinued. So did Rick Hogue at
Garrett Park. What gives?
Chuck
I don't know if I talked to the same guy that you did, (his name escapes me
right now) but he said that as far as he knew the Swamp Ash was not being
discontinued. He then pulled out his production schedule sheet for next year
which includes all the new models, and the Swamp Ash was included in the
production schedule.
Brian Meader wrote in message <6519vm$2cs$1...@news2.cais.com>...
>Hi All!
>
>Spoke with head of sales at PRS yesterday morning. The Swamp Ash Special
>has NOT been discontinued, nor are there any immediate plans to do so.
>
>Brian Meader
>Washington Music Center
Cypher
On 20 Nov 1997 19:37:42 GMT, douga...@aol.com (DougA70320) wrote:
>The folks at PRS told us the same thing. Paul was at our store on Tuesday
>doing a presentation and he talked about the success of the
>Swamp Ash Special. So of all the things in the world to worry about, it seems
>like the abolition of the Swamp Ash Special isn't one of them. Thanks, Doug
Maybe they struck a deal with Fender and are buying up all the swamp
ash allocated for the Fender SAS.... or maybe Samick.
:)
-Cypher
DougA70320
>Subject: Re: PRS Swamp Ash Special -- It's History--NOT
>Date: Fri, Nov 21, 1997 00:05 EST
>Message-id: <19971121050...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>>>Hi All! Spoke with head of sales at PRS yesterday morning.
>The Swamp Ash Special has NOT been discontinued, nor
>are there any immediate plans to do so.<<
>
>>>Brian Meader
>>>Washington Music Center
>
>representatives
>at the Philly show told me it was being discontinued. So did Rick Hogue at
>Garrett Park. What gives?
******************
Well, Paul Reed Smith was at our store on Tuesday doing a demonstation.
(he was incredible by the way). He was talking about the fact that the Swamp
Ash Special is a great guitar, but is hard to build. However, he was very
clear, at least to me, that the Swamp Ash Special was a very successful guitar
and that it would be continued. So I don't know where that info is coming from
about it being discontinued. In terms of pricing for the Swamp Ash Special,
the fact that it is hard to build makes it a guitar which could have a price
increase. The more it costs to manufacture, the higher the price of the
guitar. That's just my guess -- I don't have anything one way or the other on
the pricing structure. Thanks, Doug
STRATQUEEN
"Chuck" <NOSPA...@greenwood.net>
<<I don't know if I talked to the same guy that you did, (his name escapes me
right now) but he said that as far as he knew the Swamp Ash was not being
discontinued. He then pulled out his production schedule sheet for next year
which includes all the new models, and the Swamp Ash was included in the
production schedule.>>
A lot of people have guitars on back order.....this is either a bad rumour or
somebody's idea of a cruel joke.
Sharon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Confidence is sexy, doncha think?" - J. Palance
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://members.aol.com/STRATQUEEN/index.html
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>Maybe they struck a deal with Fender and are buying up all the swamp
>ash allocated for the Fender SAS.... or maybe Samick.
>:)
>-Cypher
PRS buying Fender wood? Come one, they know better than that...
...a JOKE, that was a JOKE.
Matt I.
David J. MacKenzie
strat...@aol.com (STRATQUEEN) writes:
> A lot of people have guitars on back order.....this is either a bad rumour or
> somebody's idea of a cruel joke.
After 8 months waiting for the SAS I'd ordered I gave up and bought a
new American Std. Strat. With new pickups, nut, and tuners, it was
still $500 less than the PRS. So I bought a Deluxe Reverb, too.
I don't regret the decision....
Matthew Ivaliotes
d...@catapult.va.pubnix.com (David J. MacKenzie) writes:
>After 8 months waiting for the SAS I'd ordered I gave up and bought a
>new American Std. Strat. With new pickups, nut, and tuners, it was
>still $500 less than the PRS. So I bought a Deluxe Reverb, too.
>I don't regret the decision....
Glad you're happy. For me, there'd be no comparison between the PRS and
the Strat. For you, that's obviously not the case. A good thing will come
to this one who waits. :)
Matt I. 'eagerly awaiting bliss'
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>Did you get the Fender SAS?
This reminds me...I'm confused by that new Fender model. Unless I'm
mistaken, Fender has always made its clear-finished (including
sunburst) US-made Strats our of ash. Does this new model's existence
imply that they don't make any American Standards out of ash any more?
Matt I.
Cypher
On 22 Nov 1997 14:08:03 -0500, d...@catapult.va.pubnix.com (David J.
MacKenzie) wrote:
>strat...@aol.com (STRATQUEEN) writes:
>
>> A lot of people have guitars on back order.....this is either a bad rumour or
>> somebody's idea of a cruel joke.
>
>After 8 months waiting for the SAS I'd ordered I gave up and bought a
>new American Std. Strat. With new pickups, nut, and tuners, it was
>still $500 less than the PRS. So I bought a Deluxe Reverb, too.
>I don't regret the decision....
Did you get the Fender SAS?
-Cypher
S. Hart
On 23 Nov 1997 05:49:23 GMT, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes)
wrote:
>guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>
>>Did you get the Fender SAS?
>
>This reminds me...I'm confused by that new Fender model. Unless I'm
>mistaken, Fender has always made its clear-finished (including
>sunburst) US-made Strats our of ash.
You're mistaken. With a few exceptions, they've always been alder.
It's pretty easy to tell just by looking at the grain. Ash is very
bold and alder is pretty subtle. The Deluxe Strat Plus has an ash
veneer on the top and back - so don't be fooled.
> Does this new model's existence
>imply that they don't make any American Standards out of ash any more?
The "new model" *is* an American Standard made out of ash - hence the
official name - "American Standard Stratocaster, Natural Ash."
Excluding artist and custom shop models, the only other ash-bodied
strats are the "U.S. Strat Plus, Natural Ash" and the "Deluxe Super
Strat" (Mexican) which is available in various colors - and is
actually a pretty nice guitar.
SEFSTRAT
<<<<I don't know if I talked to the same guy that you did, (his name escapes me
right now) but he said that as far as he knew the Swamp Ash was not being
discontinued. He then pulled out his production schedule sheet for next year
which includes all the new models, and the Swamp Ash was included in the
production schedule.>>
A lot of people have guitars on back order.....this is either a bad rumour or
somebody's idea of a cruel joke. >>
1. It isn't true.
2. It doesn't matter. PRS history is that when they discontinue a line (like
the old EG), the fill all outstanding backorders. Classy.
SEFSTRAT
SEFSTRAT
<<After 8 months waiting for the SAS I'd ordered I gave up and bought a
new American Std. Strat.>>
There are new PRS SASs all over the place.; Why would anyone wait on a
backorder?
SEFSTRAT
Chuck
>PRS buying Fender wood? Come one, they know better than that...
>
>...a JOKE, that was a JOKE.
>
>Matt I.
>
Huh, huh huh huh huh....you said 'wood'. Huh huh huh huh.
Matthew Ivaliotes
sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) writes:
>There are new PRS SASs all over the place.; Why would anyone wait on a
>backorder?
>SEFSTRAT
Umm...well...because I want it the way I want it, for one. Because I
couldn't find a better price elsewhere, for two. And because the ones
hanging on the wall at the place I ordered from are solid-colored, which
I think is a waste of the PRS shape. Had there been a translucent
stop-tail hanging on that same wall, I would have bought it.
Matt I.
Stephane Boucher
sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) writes:
> 2. It doesn't matter. PRS history is that when they discontinue a
> line (like the old EG), the fill all outstanding backorders. Classy.
^^^^^^
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that a friend - who
happens to play lefty - does not think PRS is classy. That friend was
telling me how PRS asked a certain luthier to stop doing lefty
conversion of PRSs. Considering that PRS does not build lefties,
that's not very classy of him to ask the luthier in question to stop
building conversion PRS, and thus deprive those poor soles who want a
lefty PRS. (especially considering that the luthier started with a
stock righty PRS).
Of course maybe I misunderstood, but that friend was using words
suitable for a mature audience only, so I figured he was not pleased
:-)
--
,
Stephane Boucher, ing s...@nortel.ca
- NORTEL - Tel: (613)763-9778
Bell-Northern Research / Recherches Bell-Northern
Jack Gretz
SEFSTRAT wrote:
>
> <<After 8 months waiting for the SAS I'd ordered I gave up and bought a
> new American Std. Strat.>>
>
> backorder?
> SEFSTRAT
order since 9/96--Paul told me himself that I was looking at 13-16
months for one to come through on production.I just ordered 5 more so
maybe I'll have them for Christmas of '99.
And NO!!! I don't give them away like WMC and GC's and HofG.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
Matthew Ivaliotes wrote:
>
> This reminds me...I'm confused by that new Fender model. Unless I'm
> mistaken, Fender has always made its clear-finished (including
> imply that they don't make any American Standards out of ash any more?
American Standard Stratocasters have alder bodies.
According to Duchossoir, _The Fender Stratocaster_:
"In 1954, the Stratocaster was introduced with an ash body, often
figured and generally made of two pieces, although one-piece and
three-piece bodies are known to exist.
After 1956, Fender switched over to alder and ash was then only
retained for the guitars with a Blonde finish and sometimes
custom colors.
In early 1972, the introduction of a "natural" finish prompted
the return of ash-bodied Stratocasters. For a period of time
both alder and ash were used, but the heavier density and better
sustain characteristics of ash and its more attractive grain
pattern soon gained favor. Therefore alder was practically put
aside in the 1970's.
On the threshold of the 1980's, a renewed craze for solid colors,
as well as some complaints about the excessive weight of current
ash-bodied guitars, put the emphasis once again on alder.
Since Fender has resumed its manufacturing activities in late 1985,
production guitars have an alder body (except the 1987 limited
edition ash-bodied Vintage Reissues in blonde)."
This book was done in 1994, so there can be more things going on since
then.
But this implies that there are a lot of sunburst and other finish
Stratocasters, with alder bodies.
I have no problem at all with alder bodies - my Lonestar has one and
it sounds fine.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Nick V Flor
No, there is one more: The Japanese '68 reissue is also made out of
ash, according to Frontline.
- Nick
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.makers.guitar: 23-Nov-97 Re: PRS Swamp
Ash Special -.. by S. Ha...@primary.net
Matthew Ivaliotes
I can see how that whole 'Don't build lefties' thing would tick your
friend off. Doesn't seem very nice. I'm sure PRS is just trying to
protect its reputation and patent, namely by making sure that they are the
only people who truly can make a PRS.
But yeah, it doesn't seem very nice of them, given that they don't make
lefties themselves.
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) writes:
>Yup. I had my UItra done in the Custom Shop several years ago, so I could get
>that guitar in the natural ash finish. It wasn't available otherwise, except
>with an alder body nad ash top and back laminates.
OK, but I did some checking, and I *know* a few guys who have US-made,
no-special-model Strats that are sunburst finishes over a solid ash body.
What I'm thinking is that Fender once made Strats out of ash by default
for ANY translucent finish (natural or otherswise). Then they moved to
veneers, and then they decided to release the 'new' model, I guess for
people who didn't want veneers, such as yourself.
I wonder what their model critical mass is. 50? 75?
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <amul...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>But this implies that there are a lot of sunburst and other finish
>Stratocasters, with alder bodies.
>I have no problem at all with alder bodies - my Lonestar has one and
>it sounds fine.
Informative post. Thanks. I'll have to go back and find out what years
these ash Strats are that I'm seeing. I also have no problem with alder.
My Carvin is a maple through-neck with alder body sides, and I like it
quite a bit. Just trying to figure out what the hubub about the new model
was about, since I thought this was nothing new.
Matt I.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
Matthew Ivaliotes wrote:
>
> "Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <amul...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> >But this implies that there are a lot of sunburst and other finish
> >Stratocasters, with alder bodies.
> >I have no problem at all with alder bodies - my Lonestar has one and
> >it sounds fine.
>
> Informative post.
Although the two slender volumes of Mr. Duchossoir, _The Fender
Telecaster_ and _The Fender Stratocaster_ are probably not what you
would expect, they have some really good information in them that
helps cut down on the misconceptions that can easily happen considering
the complicated history of Fender production.
> Just trying to figure out what the hubub about the new model
> was about, since I thought this was nothing new.
The new model is "new". A lot of Fender models are "new". It's hard
to say what "new" means regarding Fender.
They got a "new" kind of pickup now, the "New Ultra Quiet 'Powerhouse'
Pickup System." Anyone know what's up with these? But wait there is
another. The "Super Fat 'Super' Strat Pickups".
These are found on the new "Deluxe" model Strats. The Deluxe Strat has
an ash body, the Deluxe Powerhouse Strat has a _poplar_ body.
Can't tell the players without a scorecard....
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Matthew Ivaliotes
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <amul...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>The new model is "new". A lot of Fender models are "new". It's hard
>to say what "new" means regarding Fender.
Well put. Oh, well. I have them in my purchase 'kill file' for treating
me cruddily regarding a defective amp I bought new from them.
>They got a "new" kind of pickup now, the "New Ultra Quiet 'Powerhouse'
>Pickup System." Anyone know what's up with these? But wait there is
>another. The "Super Fat 'Super' Strat Pickups".
Heh.
>These are found on the new "Deluxe" model Strats. The Deluxe Strat has
>an ash body, the Deluxe Powerhouse Strat has a _poplar_ body.
>Can't tell the players without a scorecard....
Unreal. I can only imagine what Fender's "best dealers in the world" are
telling people about each of these models. The most honest one of them
probably can't keep track of the real facts.
Matt I.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) wrote:
[]
[] >The new model is "new". A lot of Fender models are "new". It's hard
[] >to say what "new" means regarding Fender.
[]
[] Well put. Oh, well. I have them in my purchase 'kill file' for treating
[] me cruddily regarding a defective amp I bought new from them.
And this, my friends, is the crux of Matt's problems. It really isn't
so much that Fender sux--all major guitar manufactures have their
problems and they all have their share of lemons--it's because this
manufacture made the mistake of selling Matt one of their defective
units (how dare they). Now Matt is "punishing" Fender by singling
them out and launching a world wide "Hate Them" campaign on usenet.
Matt, you've got the right to continue going on about this and I'm
sure you'll have a clever response to this post, but I know I'm not
that only one sick of hearing your continual ravings over what, a six
month period now, at least.
WE GET THE PICTURE. And in case you don't get our picture:
==> Many of us own and love Fender Guitars <==
Shut up? Not at all. But you've had your piece 40 times over now --
no?
Thanks for listening,
Chris
PS: If this technique is suppose to get you a new amp, it would have
happened by now.
----
"USA Today has come out with a new survey: Apparently three out of
four people make up 75 percent of the population"--David Letterman
............................................................
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
chri...@microsoft.com -- Snohomish, WA. -- Studio O Stone
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Cypher
>But this implies that there are a lot of sunburst and other finish
>Stratocasters, with alder bodies.
>
>I have no problem at all with alder bodies - my Lonestar has one and
>it sounds fine.
The older Strats use regular ash, hence, they're pretty heavy. The new
Strat Plus Ash models also use regular ash. The Fender American
Standard Strat "Natural Ash" uses swamp ash which solves the "weight"
problem.
If you want one of these, I'd get one quick. I don't expect them to be
produced at this price for long. Pretty soon, they'll probably start
alocating the swamp ash to the higher end guitars.
-Cypher
Cypher
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:33:25 GMT, Xchr...@microsoft.comX (Not A
Speck Of Cereal) wrote:
>Matt, you've got the right to continue going on about this and I'm
>sure you'll have a clever response to this post, but I know I'm not
>that only one sick of hearing your continual ravings over what, a six
>month period now, at least.
>
>WE GET THE PICTURE. And in case you don't get our picture:
>
> ==> Many of us own and love Fender Guitars <==
>
>Shut up? Not at all. But you've had your piece 40 times over now --
>no?
>
>Thanks for listening,
1) He's not listening
2) He'll never stop Fender Bashing
3) He's been going on about it for well over six months
I've just learned to accept it. One of these days, I guess he'll grow
out of it. I sure hope he doesn't drive a GM product! hehehehe
-Cypher
Jay Vyas
In article <19971124135...@ladder01.news.aol.com> strat...@aol.com (STRATQUEEN) writes:
< SNIP >
>stores within a two-hour driving radius, and they can't find them. One of my
>friends found a great deal on a McCarty locally, but in general PRS's are VERY
>difficult to find up here in the great white north.
>
How far are you from Boston? Within about a 1 mile radius is Daddy's
Junky, EU Wurlitzer, Bay State Vintage, Guitar Center, and maybe
Cambridge Music (all near the Berklee College). Guitar Center has
PRS, at least. (This might be a tad out of date, I lived there a couple
years ago...)
Also, Guitar Gallery in NH has a few used ones, judging from their ads in
Vintage Guitar.
Jay
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
Cypher wrote:
>
> If you want one of these, I'd get one quick. I don't expect them to be
> produced at this price for long. Pretty soon, they'll probably start
> alocating the swamp ash to the higher end guitars.
I don't actually have a problem with swamp ash. We have a bunch of it
growing on our family farm. It ain't southern, but if you look into the
matter you will find that the northern version of swamp ash _can_ be
even lighter than the southern type. It has to do with the relative
density of the early/late wood as well as the dilation of the wood
by water saturation.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
STRATQUEEN
lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes)
Are you telling me that if someone wants to order a custom made PRS in lefty
fashion, they can't order one? Even if they're willing to pay a lot extra?
Hmmmmm......
Rob Dobson
>OK, but I did some checking, and I *know* a few guys who have US-made,
>no-special-model Strats that are sunburst finishes over a solid ash body.
>What I'm thinking is that Fender once made Strats out of ash by default
>for ANY translucent finish (natural or otherswise).
>
>Matt I.
Older Strats were made out of ash. I have a sunburst '79 hardtail that
is solid ash. Emphasis on the _solid_... that's one heavy piece of lumber.
And the 1/4 inch of plastic they used for the finish certainly doesn't
help...
Stevie Rob
Matthew Ivaliotes
Xchr...@microsoft.comX (Not A Speck Of Cereal) writes:
>And this, my friends, is the crux of Matt's problems. It really isn't
>so much that Fender sux--all major guitar manufactures have their
>problems and they all have their share of lemons--it's because this
>manufacture made the mistake of selling Matt one of their defective
>units (how dare they).
Sarcasm? Why? Do they have the right to sell me defective gear and not
replace it or provide a refund? No one else has done it. Heck, ART sent
me a new unit because one of their retailers sold me one that didn't
*look* like it should (old graphics on it). Apparently you think it's not
a big deal to sell a defective product and then not stand behind it.
>Now Matt is "punishing" Fender by singling
>them out and launching a world wide "Hate Them" campaign on usenet.
Well sure. Look, no matter what the product or the company is, if you
treat a customer badly, they're going to badmouth you. And I really have
been mellowing lately. But the point is still taken, and I'll back off
further from besmirching Sacred Fender.
>Matt, you've got the right to continue going on about this and I'm
>sure you'll have a clever response to this post, but I know I'm not
>that only one sick of hearing your continual ravings over what, a six
>month period now, at least.
It hasn't been continual ravings. Check DejaNews. Heck, I didn't post at
*all* for quite a while. But I'll concede that I've brought it up too
often.
>WE GET THE PICTURE. And in case you don't get our picture:
> ==> Many of us own and love Fender Guitars <==
Cool. I've acknowledged that, and am genuinely, truly happy for you.
Heck, sometimes I wish *I* liked them so I could join the reindeer games.
And I *did* pick up a Jazz Bass months ago that played rather well.
>Shut up? Not at all. But you've had your piece 40 times over now --
>no?
True, true. I genuinely will attempt to mellow out. But if someone asks
for an opinion of Fender or of guitars in a price range, I'm not doing
them any favors by failing to point out that in my experience, Fender
doesn't stand behind their products.
>PS: If this technique is suppose to get you a new amp, it would have
>happened by now.
Yes, this much I know. Despite Stevie Rich's attempts to prove otherwise,
no one at Fender has so much as explained to me why they wouldn't stand
behind their product.
Matt I.
Stephane Boucher
lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) writes:
> I can see how that whole 'Don't build lefties' thing would tick your
> friend off. Doesn't seem very nice. I'm sure PRS is just trying to
> protect its reputation and patent, namely by making sure that they are the
> only people who truly can make a PRS.
Well, there are many ways this can be addressed. First, the neck
remains a righty necks, so it does have some signs of not being a
stock PRS (e.g. Paul Reed Smith on the headstock is upside
down). Second, PRS could have asked the luthier to clearly identify
the author of the work so that people are not lead to believe this
came out as is out of the PRS factory. Thirdly, PRS could have cut
some sort of deal with the guy to allow him to do some lefties.
I was just looking at some pics of the guy's work, and to quote my
friend: "it is frightening". Certainly, this work won't damage PRS's
reputation, and the luthier used a stock PRS (so PRS got money out of
it), so the guy does not infringe any patent. As for the shape of the
bodies, well, it's not the same shape as a real PRS, it is a mirror
image :-)
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>1) He's not listening
Well, actually I am now.
>2) He'll never stop Fender Bashing
It's just telling it like I see it. I don't make this stuff up. But I
realize that I've offended the Keepers of the Temple once too often, and I
officially am backing off.
>3) He's been going on about it for well over six months
Agreed. But not constantly. I've taken major breaks. And then I keep
thinking about that $450 I blew on a Fender amp...oh well. I know better
now.
>I've just learned to accept it. One of these days, I guess he'll grow
>out of it.
No, not really. Nothing to grow out of. They treated me like shit. So I
badmouthed them mercilously. They got far less than what was coming to
them. But I'll stop. There's no fighting the faith.
>I sure hope he doesn't drive a GM product! hehehehe
Glad you see that the two companies are comparable.
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
strat...@aol.com (STRATQUEEN) writes:
>>But yeah, it doesn't seem very nice of them, given that they don't make
>lefties themselves.>>
>Are you telling me that if someone wants to order a custom made PRS in lefty
>fashion, they can't order one? Even if they're willing to pay a lot extra?
>Hmmmmm......
Actually, no, I'm not telling you that. I was just inferring it from the
previous post. I was taking their word for it. It would be my first
guess that PRS would indeed make a lefty, especially if you made it worth
their while. But I can't be sure.
Matt I.
SEFSTRAT
<<Had there been a translucent
stop-tail hanging on that same wall, I would have bought it.>>
Call Matt Umanov's in NYC. There's one there.
SEFSTRAT
SEFSTRAT
<<> There are new PRS SASs all over the place.; Why would anyone wait on a
> backorder?
> SEFSTRAT
If there are PRS SAS all over the place where are the 5 SAS I have on
order since 9/96--Paul told me himself that I was looking at 13-16
months for one to come through on production.I just ordered 5 more so
maybe I'll have them for Christmas of '99.
And NO!!! I don't give them away like WMC and GC's and HofG.>>
Well, Matt Umanov, Sam Ash.HOG. WM, Indoor Storm and many others seem not to
have a lot of trouble getting their product. You can't get your order though.
Must be a reason.
Steve
SEFSTRAT
SEFSTRAT
<<I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that a friend - who
happens to play lefty - does not think PRS is classy. That friend was
telling me how PRS asked a certain luthier to stop doing lefty
conversion of PRSs. Considering that PRS does not build lefties,
that's not very classy of him to ask the luthier in question to stop
building conversion PRS, and thus deprive those poor soles who want a
lefty PRS. (especially considering that the luthier started with a
stock righty PRS).>>
I dunno. If I made a product I was proud of, I'd be a little wary of others
who aftermarketed them, altered, with my name on the headstock......even though
they have a right to do so.
SEFSTRAT
Matthew Ivaliotes
sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) writes:
As I mentioned in emal, I have a deposit that is supposedly non-refundable
on the ordered one. But I'll check out the possibility. It is quite
appealing indeed.
Matt I.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) wrote:
[] Xchr...@microsoft.comX (Not A Speck Of Cereal) writes:
[] >And this, my friends, is the crux of Matt's problems. It really isn't
[] >so much that Fender sux--all major guitar manufactures have their
[] >problems and they all have their share of lemons--it's because this
[] >manufacture made the mistake of selling Matt one of their defective
[] >units (how dare they).
[]
[] Sarcasm? Why?
Okay, sorry--sarcasm mode off
[] Do they have the right to sell me defective gear and not
[] replace it or provide a refund?
Yes, they do. The warrantee doesn't specify replacement or refund, it
says repair. Replacement is something that's done on occasion, but
it is not the general rule.
[] No one else has done it.
You have GOT to be joking (or you're simply young enough to have not
purchased many things in your life). Do you really believe that
every other manufacture in the world will simply replace every unit
that has a defect? Always? If it's a shirt, maybe...
[] [...] Apparently you think it's not
[] a big deal to sell a defective product and then not stand behind it.
What are you saying, that they weren't willing to repair it for you?
Repairing at their cost is the accepted mode of 'standing behind' a
product. I'm genuinely curious -- they are not interested in any
solution at all?
Or are you simply refusing to accept anything but a direct
replacement?
What was wrong with the amp again?
[] >Now Matt is "punishing" Fender by singling
[] >them out and launching a world wide "Hate Them" campaign on usenet.
[]
[] Well sure. Look, no matter what the product or the company is, if you
[] treat a customer badly, they're going to badmouth you. And I really have
[] been mellowing lately. But the point is still taken, and I'll back off
[] further from besmirching Sacred Fender.
It's just, and perhaps I'm being overly-sensitive, that we haven't all
shared you're experiences (in fact, I haven't seen any "me too"s).
You said that you've got them on a purchasing kill file and this must
work for you, but you want *other* people to make their purchasing
decision based on your experience, one which seems very rare. I agree
that you've got to look over and play the strats to find the winner on
the wall, but you want everyone to believe that the Fender company
just doesn't stand behind their product -- are you sure about that?
It could be that we just don't agree that you've been treated badly.
But I guess I don't know the whole story -- did they really treat you
badly enough to warrant your anti-Fender campaign?
[...]
[] >WE GET THE PICTURE. And in case you don't get our picture:
[] > ==> Many of us own and love Fender Guitars <==
[]
[] Cool. I've acknowledged that, and am genuinely, truly happy for you.
[] Heck, sometimes I wish *I* liked them so I could join the reindeer games.
The reindeer games? ;^) Am I missing out on something?
[] >Shut up? Not at all. But you've had your piece 40 times over now --
[] >no?
[]
[] True, true. I genuinely will attempt to mellow out.
That's very gracious of you (still no sarcasm)
Stevie Speck
Matthew Ivaliotes
Xchr...@microsoft.comX (Not A Speck Of Cereal) writes:
>Yes, they do. The warrantee doesn't specify replacement or refund, it
>says repair. Replacement is something that's done on occasion, but
>it is not the general rule.
Sure, but at the risk of repeating myself again, this was an extreme case.
They left the heat sink off of it, and the problem wasn't diagnosed until
multiple overheat shutoffs.
>[] No one else has done it.
>You have GOT to be joking (or you're simply young enough to have not
>purchased many things in your life). Do you really believe that
>every other manufacture in the world will simply replace every unit
>that has a defect? Always? If it's a shirt, maybe...
No one else has done it to me, was my point. If it were such an extreme
problem as leaving the heat sink off an amp, you bet I'd expect a
replacement or refund. Fact is they *admitted* that replacement was in
order, but since they had discontinued the model, I was out of luck. No
refund was offered, and I was literally scoffed at when I suggested it.
Instead, they gave me a different model. It was either that or
the original amp post several meltdowns. Customer Satisfaction at
its best.
>What are you saying, that they weren't willing to repair it for you?
>Repairing at their cost is the accepted mode of 'standing behind' a
>product. I'm genuinely curious -- they are not interested in any
>solution at all?
No repair was required. Completing construction was required. They
realized, after I explained it to them slowly, that there was no way
I could trust that amp, certainly not in a live situation, after all of
the damage that likely occurred to the amp during multiple overheats.
When you blunder as big as they did, you deserve to lose the sale. A
company that really cares about its customers would agree. I could list
dozens of companys that do.
>Or are you simply refusing to accept anything but a direct
>replacement?
>What was wrong with the amp again?
See above and below.
>You said that you've got them on a purchasing kill file and this must
>work for you, but you want *other* people to make their purchasing
>decision based on your experience, one which seems very rare. I agree
>that you've got to look over and play the strats to find the winner on
>the wall, but you want everyone to believe that the Fender company
>just doesn't stand behind their product -- are you sure about that?
That's all the evidence I have available to me.
>It could be that we just don't agree that you've been treated badly.
>But I guess I don't know the whole story -- did they really treat you
>badly enough to warrant your anti-Fender campaign?
Well, Fendergate made thigns worse at first...I started with the amp thing
and it spiraled into experiences with rotten dealers. The Stevie Rich
started referring to them as 'the best dealers in the world,' and I really
started viewing Fender as sheisters. Their 'moels du jour' don't help my
opinion of them...but I'll admit that I only have one direct beef with
their stance behind their products, and it is this:
To be super-brief again, at the risk of repeating myself...I bought the
amp. It shut itself off seemingly randomly many times...a couple of times
at a REALLY bad time. The 'Fender Authorized' service tech had it for 10
days and it overheated and shut off more times before figuring out that
the amp was shipped without a heat sink installed. The store would only
install the heat sink and give it right back to me. I had to make several
phone calls to Fender, and they implied they were doing me a favor my
giving me an exchange for a different amp, since mine had been
discontinued. The two amps were not all that different, but if they make
a horrible amp *and* give me bad service *and* discontinue the model, you
think they'd care enough to arrange for a refund or *something* fair.
To me, the warranty argument doesn't hold water. If it broke, that'd be
one thing, but it was shipped without an essential part. "We're sorry the
car didn't havea radiator, sir. We'd be happy to fix it under warranty."
I don't think so.
>The reindeer games? ;^) Am I missing out on something?
Just eluding to the fact that it's not fun being slammed as the
anti-Fender psycho when I have a valid beef with them and am genuinely
trying to be the lone voice saying "hey, maybe they're taking us for
granted, and maybe this isn't acceptable."
>[] True, true. I genuinely will attempt to mellow out.
>That's very gracious of you (still no sarcasm)
Well thanks. I am trying, and I in no way meant to make enemies out of
feeling like I got shafted, and I did. So I lashed back the only way I
could, since they never so much as answered an email of mine.
Matt I.
Scott Hinman
Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote:
(snip)
>
> The reindeer games? ;^) Am I missing out on something?
They never let poor Rudolph
Join in any reindeer games
(Wait a minute - you got a smiley in there - you already figgered it
out, didn't you. Or am I missing out on something too? You, me,
Rudolph, who else? <g>)
Regards,
Scott (I live closer to the North Pole than you I bet <g>) H.
.*°*€°.- Remove the ?'s to reply-.*°*€°.
David J. MacKenzie
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
> PRS should sue Rogue... No, wait! Gibson should sue PRS and Rogue...
> and HAMER! hehehehe
This is getting too close to reality, folks... the reason those cool
Wilkinson locking trems aren't available in the US anymore is because
of a Gibson patent--there's an Epiphone shredder model that uses a
similar design. Gawsh, we all want Epiphone axes, don't we?
SEFSTRAT
<<<<There are new PRS SASs all over the place.; Why would anyone wait on a
backorder?>>
Because they are not available in some areas. I know people who have tried
stores within a two-hour driving radius, and they can't find them. One of my
friends found a great deal on a McCarty locally, but in general PRS's are VERY
difficult to find up here in the great white north.
>>
Then mail order it from a store that has it in stock, get it shipped to you in
days. There are many such stores.
SEFSTRAT
Cypher
On 24 Nov 1997 17:29:12 GMT, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes)
wrote:
>>3) He's been going on about it for well over six months
>
>Agreed. But not constantly. I've taken major breaks. And then I keep
>thinking about that $450 I blew on a Fender amp...oh well. I know better
>now.
Didn't Fender replace the amp with a working one? Whatever happened
with that amp. I put your messages on "auto-ignore" back when all that
crap was going on and I never saw the outcome.
-Cypher
Cypher
On 24 Nov 1997 18:37:53 GMT, sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) wrote:
>I dunno. If I made a product I was proud of, I'd be a little wary of others
>who aftermarketed them, altered, with my name on the headstock......even though
>they have a right to do so.
>SEFSTRAT
PRS should sue Rogue... No, wait! Gibson should sue PRS and Rogue...
and HAMER! hehehehe
;)
-Cypher
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>Didn't Fender replace the amp with a working one? Whatever happened
>with that amp. I put your messages on "auto-ignore" back when all that
>crap was going on and I never saw the outcome.
They replaces it with a different model.
Matt I.
STRATQUEEN
jay...@netcom.com (Jay Vyas) wrote:
<<How far are you from Boston? Within about a 1 mile radius is Daddy's Junky,
EU Wurlitzer, Bay State Vintage, Guitar Center, and maybe Cambridge Music (all
near the Berklee College). Guitar Center has PRS, at least. (This might be a
tad out of date, I lived there a couple years ago...)>>
I was 2 hours from Boston, but recently moved an hour
closer. Every time I've gone to Boston with a friend to find a PRS (5-6 times
in the last 6 months), we've been told, "Gee, I just sold my last
one"....or......"I've got a few coming in next week, I'll call you when they
come in"....but we never get a call. Probably someday I'll be out bopping
around with no money and I'll see the guitar of my dreams.
<<Guitar Gallery in NH has a few used ones, judging from their ads in Vintage
Guitar.>>
I've never heard of it. Do you know where it is?
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>PRS should sue Rogue... No, wait! Gibson should sue PRS and Rogue...
>and HAMER! hehehehe
Heh...
No way, man. PRS should sue Gibson...just for the sake of someone suing
Gibson.
Matt I.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
Scott Hinman <ashinman@chem.?ucalgary?.ca> wrote:
[] Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote:
[] > The reindeer games? ;^) Am I missing out on something?
[]
[] They never let poor Rudolph
[] Join in any reindeer games
Ah-ha <slapping forehead> of course!
[] Scott (I live closer to the North Pole than you I bet <g>) H.
Well, I USE'TA live in Anchorage and I've been to Fairbanks. . . but
I think Calgary has me beat now ;^). So say hi to St. Nick for me
(also, if you know a little brunette named Sharon living in Calgary,
say hi to her for me too!)
Cypher
On 25 Nov 1997 02:41:25 GMT, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes)
wrote:
>guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
LOL! hehehehe You're right!
-Cypher
Not A Speck Of Cereal
lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) wrote:
[...]
[] To be super-brief again, at the risk of repeating myself...[...]
Well, that is a unique situation, that's for sure. It doesn't sound
like a refund would have broke them in this situation.
[] Well thanks. I am trying, and I in no way meant to make enemies out of
[] feeling like I got shafted, and I did. So I lashed back the only way I
[] could, since they never so much as answered an email of mine.
Yeah, bad communication is bad business.
Chris
Matthew Ivaliotes
Xchr...@microsoft.comX (Not A Speck Of Cereal) writes:
>lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) wrote:
>[] To be super-brief again, at the risk of repeating myself...[...]
>Well, that is a unique situation, that's for sure. It doesn't sound
>like a refund would have broke them in this situation.
Thanks for the understanding.
>Yeah, bad communication is bad business.
Thanks again for understanding my feelings. I guess I can shut up now.
:)
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>LOL! hehehehe You're right!
>-Cypher
By the way, I'm glad to be no longer embroiled in angst-spewing. This is
much more fun. :)
Matt I.
Jay Vyas
Many people here are down on mail-ordering a guitar, but most reputable
shops will give you anywhere from a 24-48 hour tryout period. If you
don't like it, send it back, and you're only out the shipping charges.
This doesn't really make sense for a guitar that is readily available,
say an Am Std Strat, but for a guitar like the SAS that only seems to
have availability in certain areas, it may be worth it if that's the
guitar you want, er, need.
Jay
Philip Rous
> (Matthew Ivaliotes) writes:
> >sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) writes:
> >There are new PRS SASs all over the place.; Why would anyone wait on a
> >backorder?
>
> Umm...well...because I want it the way I want it, for one. Because I
> couldn't find a better price elsewhere, for two. And because the ones
> hanging on the wall at the place I ordered from are solid-colored, which
> I think is a waste of the PRS shape.
I do'nt want to rain on anyone's parade, but did you also specify you
wanted it built from a light piece of swamp ash?
It has been said before, but it seems that PRS is having a serious
problem finding light swamp ash to build these guitars. Even the ones
they do produce have a considerable variation in weight. Presumably,
the scarcity of the translucent finishes is due to it being even
more difficult to find light swamp ash with decent figure.
I've no doubt that the SAS will be discontinued soon. No company
wants to have a serious backlog on its products because it
inevitably produces consumer hostility. Having said that, a light
SAS is a wonderful guitar and in my opinion it is one of
the best sounding guitars PRS has ever produced.
If it helps anyone, there is a local store with a sunburst SAS
w/trem in stock. E-mail me if you want more details...
Jomack
Here's the deal. When you buy an amplifier from a store, your "contract" is
with the store. If you wanted a refund your beef is with the store that sold
you the amp. Plain and simple. If there is any customer service issue here, it
is between you and the retailer, who all along has had the option of refunding
your money.
Fender offered you an equal value current model replacement for the defective
amp, which is hardly blowing you off. (You don't really believe that they
should make a one-off of a discontinued amplifier, do you?) You didn't purchase
direct from Fender, they "can't" refund your money, as they sell their products
through authorized dealers.
Your lack of understanding (or unwillingness to learn) of this simple fact is
tiresome.
S. Hart
On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:24:18 -0500, Nick V Flor <fl...@andrew.cmu.edu>
wrote:
>No, there is one more: The Japanese '68 reissue is also made out of
>ash, according to Frontline.
>
>- Nick
>
Really? That's odd, because their web site
(http://www.fender.com/cgi/doGuitar.cgi?c/guitars_basses/elecguitars/stratocaster+68Strat)
says it's made out of basswood. Maybe their web master can't keep
track of the 80+ models they make anymore. In either case, it would
seem to be a pretty inaccurate reissue as '68 strats were made from
alder.
Matthew Ivaliotes
phi...@lionheart.umbc.edu (Philip Rous) writes:
>I do'nt want to rain on anyone's parade, but did you also specify you
>wanted it built from a light piece of swamp ash?
I have a strong back. (kidding)
Yeah, that might be a factor. Again, I can always sell it and recoup
probably all of my expense, especially given the scarcity in many places.
I don't think that will be an issue. I genuinely don't need it to be a
featherweight, although I obviously don't want a boat anchor.
As for the wood being short...that's what I've heard is the problem,
contributing to the other issue of backorders.
Matt I.
S. Hart
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:58:23 GMT, guit...@geocities.com (Cypher)
wrote:
>The older Strats use regular ash, hence, they're pretty heavy. The new
>Strat Plus Ash models also use regular ash. The Fender American
>Standard Strat "Natural Ash" uses swamp ash which solves the "weight"
>problem.
Fender says the Strat Plus uses "lightweight swamp ash" - same as the
American Standard. Swamp ash usually refers to the tree being grown in
an area with too much water making it lighter in weight once dry -
particularly with wood taken from the bottom of the tree. No matter
what they call it, it all comes from the same tree - Fraxinus
Americana - and always has (if we're talking about Fender.) "Swamp"
ash has turned into some kind of marketing voodoo term. As far as I
know, nobody is building guitars out of northern white ash. With that
said, disregarding the usual variances that occur in any two pieces of
the same type of wood, ash (whether it's "southern" "swamp" or
"lightweight") will generally be denser than alder. The very earliest
ash Fenders were relatively light. During the '70's conventional
wisdom was that heavier guitars sustained better, and Fender probably
selected wood with that in mind. The trend has flipped now, and Fender
and everybody else seems to be selecting lighter ash for their guitars
(though I still maintain that they're heavier than an identical guitar
in alder.) If you're noticing a consistent difference in weight
between the American Standard and Strat Plus ash models, it probably
has something to do with the finish, or more likely the routing. I
know my ash G&L is heavier than an ash American Standard (by heavier I
mean a pound or two) but it also has a lot more wood between the
bridge and neck. I haven't looked inside a Strat plus, so I can't
speculate on that model.
>
>If you want one of these, I'd get one quick. I don't expect them to be
>produced at this price for long. Pretty soon, they'll probably start
>alocating the swamp ash to the higher end guitars.
>
There's no shortage of swamp ash. Finding pieces that have the pretty
grain for those high-end translucent finishes may limit availability -
but that's probably more of an issue for PRS than Fender.
Matthew Ivaliotes
jom...@aol.com (Jomack) writes:
>Here's the deal. When you buy an amplifier from a store, your "contract" is
>with the store. If you wanted a refund your beef is with the store that sold
>you the amp. Plain and simple. If there is any customer service issue here, it
>is between you and the retailer, who all along has had the option of refunding
>your money.
The store didn't procude the amp. The store didn't discontinue the model.
Moreover, Fender has an authorization deal with its retailers. They could
have at least *asked* the dealer to do something, or paid the dealer back
for the amp. Yes, the dealer should have given me a refund. But Fender
doesn't have any policy (apparently) that saya a dealer will standbehind
the product. Guess what, if your dealers don't stand behind your product,
and you don't sell direct, than *YOU* don't stand behind your product.
Period.
> Fender offered you an equal value current model replacement for the defective
>amp, which is hardly blowing you off. (You don't really believe that they
>should make a one-off of a discontinued amplifier, do you?)
No. Thus, they have to give me my money if they really want to show they
give a damn. When you go buy an amp, are you basically saying that you'll
take any amp of the 'same value' from that manufacturer? Me, I choose the
one I want, and I expect to get it. If I don't, I want my money back, and
Fender didn't so much as ask my dealer to accomodate
>You didn't purchase
>direct from Fender, they "can't" refund your money, as they sell their products
>through authorized dealers.
So? Nothing prevents them from apologizing, taking the unfinished amp
back, and doing whatever has to be done to make it right. If they wanted
to satisfy the customer, they could have gotten me the money I spent, or
even given me a choice of models in that range. They didn't. They acted
like they were doing me a favor by giving me an amp that was different
from the one that I paid for when the one that I paid for was never
finished by them and was rendered unusable by their negligence.
>Your lack of understanding (or unwillingness to learn) of this simple fact is
>tiresome.
You're wrong. Completely wrong. I bought an effects unit through a
retailer. An ART unit. ART, not the retailer, gave me a new one when I
informed them that mine was apparently from old stock, and had old
graphics. *They* understood that even a cosmetic difference from what you
paid for is unacceptable, and they took personal responsibility for their
customer's satisfaction. I asked the dealer for an exchange, but got no
satisfaction. ART saw that they had a problem with that dealer, and
recognized that if they wanted to satisfy the customer, they had to act
themselves. They did.
You argument doesn't hold an ounce of water.
Matt I.
STRATQUEEN
sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT)
<<<<There are new PRS SASs all over the place.; Why would anyone wait on a
backorder?>>>>
I replied:
<<Because they are not available in some areas. I know people who have tried
stores within a two-hour driving radius, and they can't find them. One of my
friends found a great deal on a McCarty locally, but in general PRS's are VERY
difficult to find up here in the great white north.>>
<Then mail order it from a store that has it in stock, get it shipped to you in
days. There are many such stores.
SEFSTRAT>
The guitar is for my friend, not me. He has a real problem with buying a
guitar through mail order, when he has never played that specific
guitar.....and I don't blame him. Some of the people whom I respect the most
in this NG have told me they have gone into a shop, played 3-4 different
copies of the same guitar and found them all to sound a little different. I
know PRS is famous for its quality, but the prospect of buying through the mail
still makes us a little nervous. I guess if he gets desperate enough, he'll go
that route.
P.S. Somebody from Magdon Music saw my post yesterday and has offered to help
my friend and I find the exact guitar we are looking for.
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
Andrew P. Mullhaupt (amul...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Matthew Ivaliotes wrote:
: >
: > "Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <amul...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
: >
: > >But this implies that there are a lot of sunburst and other finish
: > >Stratocasters, with alder bodies.
: > >I have no problem at all with alder bodies - my Lonestar has one and
: > >it sounds fine.
: >
: > Informative post.
: Although the two slender volumes of Mr. Duchossoir, _The Fender
: Telecaster_ and _The Fender Stratocaster_ are probably not what you
: would expect, they have some really good information in them that
: helps cut down on the misconceptions that can easily happen considering
: the complicated history of Fender production.
: > Just trying to figure out what the hubub about the new model
: > was about, since I thought this was nothing new.
: The new model is "new". A lot of Fender models are "new". It's hard
: to say what "new" means regarding Fender.
: They got a "new" kind of pickup now, the "New Ultra Quiet 'Powerhouse'
: Pickup System." Anyone know what's up with these? But wait there is
: another. The "Super Fat 'Super' Strat Pickups".
: These are found on the new "Deluxe" model Strats. The Deluxe Strat has
: an ash body, the Deluxe Powerhouse Strat has a _poplar_ body.
: Can't tell the players without a scorecard....
: Later,
: Andrew Mullhaupt
All this Strat confusion makes me glad I've got mine, and should I buy
another Strat I know pretty much what I'd go for, namely a Japanese built
'50s or 60s Strat. Of course I'd be more likely to go for a Tele anyways
right now, with the new '72 Custom reissue being available at a good
price hearabouts. The whole Japanese made "Collectible" line is fairly
well thought out compared with the ever changing product names coming out
of the American and Mexican lines.
Now if I could just figure out what kind of wood my mid 80s Japanese '57
Reissue Strat was made of I'd be happy. I'm assuming alder, as its a
solid colour and to the best of my knowledge basswood didn't come into
use on the Japanese line until the early 90s.
tim gueguen 101867
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
Rob Dobson (rdo...@sk.sympatico.ca) wrote:
: In article <65avpo$il5$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) says:
: >OK, but I did some checking, and I *know* a few guys who have US-made,
: >no-special-model Strats that are sunburst finishes over a solid ash body.
: >What I'm thinking is that Fender once made Strats out of ash by default
: >for ANY translucent finish (natural or otherswise).
: >
: >Matt I.
: Older Strats were made out of ash. I have a sunburst '79 hardtail that
: is solid ash. Emphasis on the _solid_... that's one heavy piece of lumber.
: And the 1/4 inch of plastic they used for the finish certainly doesn't
: help...
: Stevie Rob
Ah, the good old days of the 70s when everyone thought that dense wood
was the key to sustain, and guitar companies could get away with building
very heavy guitars. In fact I wonder if there were actually folks back
then who rejected guitars because they were too light, and hence by the
thinking of the day wouldn't have enough sustain.
tim gueguen 101867
Scott Hinman
Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote:
> (also, if you know a little brunette named Sharon living in Calgary,
> say hi to her for me too!)
Err... uhh... naah - couldn't be. (Actually, I heard she moved to the
States, got a law degree, and now does litigation involving CTS. I hear
she's a lot taller now, too, and plays slide, on a strat, or somethin')
Regards,
Scott (I shoulda known someone with roots in Alaska was gonna show up) H.
Cypher
On 24 Nov 1997 23:32:12 GMT, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes)
wrote:
>To be super-brief again, at the risk of repeating myself...I bought the
>amp. It shut itself off seemingly randomly many times...a couple of times
>at a REALLY bad time. The 'Fender Authorized' service tech had it for 10
>days and it overheated and shut off more times before figuring out that
>the amp was shipped without a heat sink installed. The store would only
>install the heat sink and give it right back to me. I had to make several
>phone calls to Fender, and they implied they were doing me a favor my
>giving me an exchange for a different amp, since mine had been
>discontinued. The two amps were not all that different, but if they make
>a horrible amp *and* give me bad service *and* discontinue the model, you
>think they'd care enough to arrange for a refund or *something* fair.
Hmmm.. It sounds like they replaced it with a newer model amp that
worked. So, what the heck is the problem? It sure sounds like you're
just mad because they didn't refund the amp or give you a *better*
one.
I'll admit that Fender should have built the amp right in the first
place, but mistakes are made and it sure sounds like Fender fixed the
problem by giving you a new amp. I see nothing wrong with this.
-Cypher
Cypher
On 25 Nov 1997 19:18:11 GMT, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes)
wrote:
>Yeah, that might be a factor. Again, I can always sell it and recoup
>probably all of my expense, especially given the scarcity in many places.
>I don't think that will be an issue. I genuinely don't need it to be a
>featherweight, although I obviously don't want a boat anchor.
>
>As for the wood being short...that's what I've heard is the problem,
>contributing to the other issue of backorders.
The two PRS SAS's that I played were H-E-A-V-Y! These were both
translucent finished guitars. I've never seen a solid-color one... Why
would anyone want one of those?
-Cypher
Cypher
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:27:22 GMT, ha...@primary.net (S. Hart) wrote:
>Fender says the Strat Plus uses "lightweight swamp ash" - same as the
>American Standard. Swamp ash usually refers to the tree being grown in
>an area with too much water making it lighter in weight once dry -
hahahaha! You should pick up the boat-anchor Natural Ash Strat Plus at
my local dealer. The thing is about as heavy as a vintage Les Paul. It
may vary between guitar models, but I'd think that they'd use the
swamp ash on the higher-end guitars. So far, of all the "ash" Fenders
I've played, the American Standard is by far the lightest. The custom
shop versions are just as heavy as the Natural Ash Strat Plus's.
-Cypher
Cypher
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:13:15 GMT, ha...@primary.net (S. Hart) wrote:
>Really? That's odd, because their web site
>(http://www.fender.com/cgi/doGuitar.cgi?c/guitars_basses/elecguitars/stratocaster+68Strat)
>says it's made out of basswood. Maybe their web master can't keep
>track of the 80+ models they make anymore. In either case, it would
>seem to be a pretty inaccurate reissue as '68 strats were made from
>alder.
There's an Ash version of the '68 re-issue.
-Cypher
Geomac
Cypher wrote:
>
> Hmmm.. It sounds like they replaced it with a newer model amp that
> worked. So, what the heck is the problem? It sure sounds like you're
> just mad because they didn't refund the amp or give you a *better*
> one.
>
> I'll admit that Fender should have built the amp right in the first
> place, but mistakes are made and it sure sounds like Fender fixed the
> problem by giving you a new amp. I see nothing wrong with this.
>
I'm with Cypher here. Maybe Fender did not do everything they could
have done, they didn't do anything wrong here either. I suspect that
Matt has reached the point of diminishing returns with his Fender
bashing (and I'm not even that much of a Fender fan, I like Gibson and
Carvin stuff mostly)
pH
Stephane Boucher
ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (TIMOTHY GUEGUEN) writes:
> All this Strat confusion makes me glad I've got mine, and should I buy
> another Strat I know pretty much what I'd go for, namely a Japanese built
> '50s or 60s Strat. Of course I'd be more likely to go for a Tele anyways
> right now, with the new '72 Custom reissue being available at a good
> price hearabouts. The whole Japanese made "Collectible" line is fairly
> well thought out compared with the ever changing product names coming out
> of the American and Mexican lines.
Yeah, well wait for another 30 years. It will be chaos in the
"collectible" line for the '80s and '90s era :-) (Assuming Fender is
still in business by then)
--
,
Stephane Boucher, ing s...@nortel.ca
- NORTEL - Tel: (613)763-9778
Bell-Northern Research / Recherches Bell-Northern
Nick V Flor
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.makers.guitar: 25-Nov-97 Re: PRS Swamp
Ash Special -.. by S. Ha...@primary.net
>
(http://www.fender.com/cgi/doGuitar.cgi?c/guitars_basses/elecguitars/stratocas
te
> r+68Strat)
> says it's made out of basswood. Maybe their web master can't keep
> track of the 80+ models they make anymore. In either case, it would
> seem to be a pretty inaccurate reissue as '68 strats were made from
> alder.
You can't trust their website. It has tons of inaccuracies. Check out
the last couple of Fender Frontline issues.
Anyway, whatever the wood, that '68 strat reissue has great tone!
- Nick
Nick V Flor
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.makers.guitar: 26-Nov-97 Re: PRS Swamp
Ash Special -.. by Matthew Ivaliotes@staff.
> I wanted the amp that I bought. Failing that, I shouldn't have to take a
> different amp. That's not right. Since they are responsible for the
> problem, they should giv eme my money back.
Matt -
Don't keep us in suspense. Just what kind of amp was this? What was the
replacement? Did they replace a Blues Deville with a Hot Rod Blues
Deville? If so, you got a good deal.
- Nick
JT
jay...@netcom.com (Jay Vyas) wrote:
>In article <19971125020...@ladder02.news.aol.com> sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) writes:
>><<<<There are new PRS SASs all over the place.; Why would anyone wait on a
>>backorder?>>
Non see through finishes are available. Try to find a natural or 3
color 'burst SAS *anywhere*.
Jon
***remove nospam in your reply***
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>On 24 Nov 1997 23:32:12 GMT, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes)
>wrote:
>Hmmm.. It sounds like they replaced it with a newer model amp that
>worked. So, what the heck is the problem? It sure sounds like you're
>just mad because they didn't refund the amp or give you a *better*
>one.
I wanted the amp that I bought. Failing that, I shouldn't have to take a
different amp. That's not right. Since they are responsible for the
problem, they should giv eme my money back.
>I'll admit that Fender should have built the amp right in the first
>place, but mistakes are made and it sure sounds like Fender fixed the
>problem by giving you a new amp. I see nothing wrong with this.
If you bought amp A, you want amp A. Not amp B. I don't see why it's so
hard to see that "close to the same" isn't the same when it comes to a
purchasing decision. They made the mistake, and if they wanted to staisfy
the customer, they should have given me the same amp. That couldn't
happen, so I feel I should have been given a chance to choose again.
I'm really not being at all unreasonable.
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
>The two PRS SAS's that I played were H-E-A-V-Y!
I've played two I'd call medium, one heavier than the other. Both sounded
*about* the same.
>These were both
>translucent finished guitars. I've never seen a solid-color one... Why
>would anyone want one of those?
No idea. A solid-color PRS seems like the waste of a great body shape to
me. But I guess someone likes them, since they do sell.
Matt I.
SEFSTRAT
>> PRS should sue Rogue... No, wait! Gibson should sue PRS and Rogue...
>> and HAMER! hehehehe
>
>This is getting too close to reality, folks... the reason those cool
>Wilkinson locking trems aren't available in the US anymore is because
>of a Gibson patent--there's an Epiphone shredder model that uses a
>similar design. Gawsh, we all want Epiphone axes, don't we?
My Yamaha Pacifica has one of those Wilkingson convertible trems...I put it in.
Bought it fortuitously, just before they got pulled off the market. Great
trem, too bad NO ONE makes them now. You'd think at least Gibson'd USE the
damn patent.
Steve
SEFSTRAT
SEFSTRAT
<< The guitar is for my friend, not me. He has a real problem with buying a
guitar through mail order, when he has never played that specific
guitar.....and I don't blame him. Some of the people whom I respect the most
in this NG have told me they have gone into a shop, played 3-4 different
copies of the same guitar and found them all to sound a little different. I
know PRS is famous for its quality, but the prospect of buying through the
still makes us a little nervous. I guess if he gets desperate enough, he'll
go
that route. >>
BTW: I bought my PRS SAS sight unseen, from Washington Music. One of the few
guitars I'd buy that way.
SEFSTRAT
STRATQUEEN
Scott Hinman <ashinman@chem.?ucalgary?.ca>
>>Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote:
>>
>> (also, if you know a little brunette named Sharon living in >>Calgary, say
hi to her for me too!)>>
>Err... uhh... naah - couldn't be. (Actually, I heard she moved to the States,
got a law degree, and now does litigation involving CTS. I hear she's a lot
taller now, too, and plays slide, on a strat, or somethin') >>
DAMN! How did I give myself away? It musta been that Harley tattoo on my
inner thigh!
Matthew Ivaliotes
Nick V Flor <fl...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.makers.guitar: 26-Nov-97 Re: PRS Swamp
>Ash Special -.. by Matthew Ivaliotes@staff.
>Don't keep us in suspense. Just what kind of amp was this? What was the
>replacement? Did they replace a Blues Deville with a Hot Rod Blues
>Deville? If so, you got a good deal.
Performer 1000 was defective, got Roc Pro 1000. The major differences are
the dorky name and the cosmetics (heinous, IMO). And I *think* one tone
shaping knob was different, and knobs of the same name definitely didn't
act the same. Maybe that's because mine was so screwed from production
that they even put the wrong pots in. I don't know.
So now I'll be told I'm a psycho because I didn't want an ugly amp with
only subtly different sound (in my opinion), a dorky name, and probably no
resale value in 3 years to any non-teenager.
Fine. You stop calling me unreasonable, I'll shut up. But I know I got
shafted.
Matt I.
Mic Cullen
strat...@aol.com (STRATQUEEN), far, far away from here, appears to have
written:
[snips]
>come in"....but we never get a call. Probably someday I'll be out bopping
>around with no money and I'll see the guitar of my dreams.
Ain't that the way? It's happening to me with houses at the moment :-)
cheers,
Stevie Mic
The "Stevie" Page is found at
http://www.cross.com.au/stevies/
KingsleyD
>This is getting too close to reality, folks... the reason those cool
>Wilkinson locking trems aren't available in the US anymore is because
>of a Gibson patent--there's an Epiphone shredder model that uses a
>similar design. Gawsh, we all want Epiphone axes, don't we?
Good old Gibson. And then there's the suit they brought against Brian Moore
Guitars (whose pres, Pat Cummings, is a former Gibson employee, and whose
namesake worked for Gibson-owned Steinberger). In the suit, among other issues,
Gibson attempted to claim a patent on the notion of a "custom shop." BMCG, by
the way, fought back with a countersuit and ended up at least even.
The rest of us can fight back by refusing to buy new
Gibson/Epiphone/Steinberger/Tobias guitars. Shouldn't be hard, since they're
either way overpriced or they s***.
--Kingsley
Cypher
On 26 Nov 1997 02:39:29 GMT, sefs...@aol.com (SEFSTRAT) wrote:
>My Yamaha Pacifica has one of those Wilkingson convertible trems...I put it in.
> Bought it fortuitously, just before they got pulled off the market. Great
>trem, too bad NO ONE makes them now. You'd think at least Gibson'd USE the
>damn patent.
>
Wilkinson still makes these... You just can't buy them in the USA. I
know people in the UK who love them. A local guitar shop here has a
Godin ST-1 hanging on the wall with this trem installed, too.
-Cypher
Rob Dobson
In article <65gbhp$13s$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, lo...@staff.uiuc.edu (Matthew Ivaliotes) says:
{Clippage}
>Fine. You stop calling me unreasonable, I'll shut up. But I know I got
>shafted.
>
>Matt I.
Matt, you're reasonable. Emminently. Now stop. Please.
Rob Dobson
Matthew Ivaliotes
rdo...@sk.sympatico.ca (Rob Dobson) writes:
>Matt, you're reasonable. Emminently. Now stop. Please.
No problem.
Matt 'was just responding to the critics' I.
elizabeth & chris
Rob Dobson wrote:
> Matt, you're reasonable. Emminently. Now stop. Please.
>
Or we're gonna have to go get some Prozac.
ESB
Matthew Ivaliotes
elizabeth & chris <bink...@concentric.net> writes:
>Or we're gonna have to go get some Prozac.
Yeah, if you take enough, you might chill out and see my point. :)
Tee hee hee
Matt I.
Stephane Boucher
guit...@geocities.com (Cypher) writes:
> Wilkinson still makes these... You just can't buy them in the USA. I
> know people in the UK who love them. A local guitar shop here has a
> Godin ST-1 hanging on the wall with this trem installed, too.
Yep. If you look at the Patrick Eggle web page, you see that they
clearly specify that they use the locking wilkinson, with the
exception of the USA which gets the non-locking :-)
Nick V Flor
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.makers.guitar: 26-Nov-97 Re: PRS Swamp
Ash Special -.. by Matthew Ivaliotes@staff.
> Performer 1000 was defective, got Roc Pro 1000. The major differences are
> the dorky name and the cosmetics (heinous, IMO). And I *think* one tone
> shaping knob was different, and knobs of the same name definitely didn't
> act the same. Maybe that's because mine was so screwed from production
> that they even put the wrong pots in. I don't know.
Well, gee.
From the fuss you were making, I (and probably many in this newsgroup)
thought that Fender had replaced a VibroKing with a Bronco.
Now we find out it's a Performer 1000 that they replaced with a Roc Pro 1000.
BTW, those two amps are virtually the same. Here's what one reviewer
(from harmony-central) said about the amp. Interestingly enough, this
reviewer had the same problem you did:
(a) the person bought a Performer 1000
(b) it's heat sink gave out
(c) Fender replaced it
But unlike you, this person was totally happy with Fender's customer
support (gave them a 10) ;-)
Cheers, and good luck with your SAS.
- Nick
---------- cut here ----------
Submitted at: 17:16, 4/4/96
Price Paid: US $450
Features: 10
This is an extremely versatile 100-watt, 1x12" combo amplifier. It is a
hybrid amp, combining 12AX7 tube distortion with all solid-state power
amplification. This provides warm to crunchy distortion as well as a ton
of clean headroom. There is a clean channel with bass, mid, and treble
dials and a mid shift button. There is a drive channel with dual
selectable gains, bass, treble, and body controls. It also has a nice
reverb and a variable effects loop, as well as headphone and 8 ohm
external speaker jacks.
This is basically the Performer 1000 repackaged in a much nicer
exterior, including a chrome control face and a black metal speaker
cover grille.
Sound Quality: 9
Only the clean sounds are phenomenal, but all of the sounds are good. I
play from blues to a progressive, folk-influenced sort of music,
anywhere from pure clean to crying distortion. This amp provides me with
a huge palette of really nice tones. For raw blues, an all-tube Fender
would be better. For metal, a Mesa would probably beat it. But if you
like to do a lot, this is a great amp to look into, especially for the
money. It also sounds a lot 'tighter' than many combos I've tried.
Reliability: 5
Here's a problem. I have never had a problem with my Roc Pro 1000. Then
again, the only reaso I have a Roc Pro 1000 is because I had to return a
defective Performer 1000 (which had been discontinued). Fender had
forgotten to bput a HEAT SINK on it before shipping. Fender customer
support did a great job getting me a new amp, but with quality control
like that, you'd best be careful.
The Performer and Roc Pro are essentially identical internally, although
I think the Roc Pro has been refined some. The controls on mine seem to
work better than the Performer and the distortion is slightly better,
but that could be amp-to-amp variance.
Customer Support: 10
Excelent support. The 5-year warranty is transferrable. The customer
service guys at Fender (especially Bob) are extremely helpful and really
want to satisfy the customer. Music stores often suck, but if you deal
with Fender directly, they will help you as much as they can.
Overall Rating: 10
I would definitetly buy it again. The heat sink problem is the only
fault I've found with it. It helps me make a unique sound. The effects
loop is wonderful. Now I want to get a 1x12" GE-112 external cabinet and
really scream.
Cosmik Debris
Mic Cullen wrote in message <34895ae8...@news.m.iinet.net.au>...
>strat...@aol.com (STRATQUEEN), far, far away from here, appears to have
>written:
>
>[snips]
>
>>come in"....but we never get a call. Probably someday I'll be out bopping
>>around with no money and I'll see the guitar of my dreams.
>
>Ain't that the way? It's happening to me with houses at the moment :-)
Mic how can you be thinking about houses when there are so many great
guitars out there to be purchased?
Matthew Ivaliotes
>(from harmony-central) said about the amp. Interestingly enough, this
>reviewer had the same problem you did:
Tell you what. You shut up about it, and I'll shut up about it. I still
say they treated me like shit, You say they didn't. Fine.
Matt I.
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
Cosmik Debris (Cosmik...@elec.canterbury.ac.nz) wrote:
: Mic Cullen wrote in message <34895ae8...@news.m.iinet.net.au>...
But you can't live in a guitar(well, maybe a harp guitar, they're kinda
big). And even if the
case is big enough to live in, where are you gonna keep the guitar? :-)
tim gueguen 101867
Mic Cullen
ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (TIMOTHY GUEGUEN), far, far away from here, appears to
have written:
[snips]
>But you can't live in a guitar(well, maybe a harp guitar, they're kinda
>big). And even if the
>case is big enough to live in, where are you gonna keep the guitar? :-)
In the house :-)
Mic Cullen
"Cosmik Debris" <Cosmik...@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>, far, far away from here,
appears to have written:
[snips]
>Mic how can you be thinking about houses when there are so many great
>guitars out there to be purchased?
Several reasons.
One: I need to move. I'm bored with this house :-)
Two: I've got a Fly. I've also got a few other nice guitars, but I really only
play the Fly.
Three: I'm moving to a *bigger* house, so I'll have more room for stuff :-)
Four: My wife wants to move. Anyone think of a defence to *this* one? :-)
Cypher
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:14:54 -0500, Nick V Flor <fl...@andrew.cmu.edu>
wrote:
>Now we find out it's a Performer 1000 that they replaced with a Roc Pro 1000.
>BTW, those two amps are virtually the same. Here's what one reviewer
>(from harmony-central) said about the amp. Interestingly enough, this
>reviewer had the same problem you did:
<SNIP>
>But unlike you, this person was totally happy with Fender's customer
>support (gave them a 10) ;-)
Wait a minute.... That sounds EXACTLY like Matt's story... with a
happy ending. hmmmmm.... I'm real suspicious, now.
;)
-Cypher