Replacing surgical tubing on guitar stands
Mike Mckernan
stocking, someone on this ng mentioned that the surgical tubing wreaks havoc
on guitar finishes. This was about a year ago, and the stuff is actually
deteriorating into a chalky white mess.
Question: does anyone know of something I could replace this stuff with?
Where can you buy the black foam-looking tubular stuff that's on newer
guitar stands?
Thanks,
Mike
=====================================
I can spell, I just can't type.
Simon
news:hgBY5.30476$w35.5...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
I use regular transparent plastic tubing I bought at the hardware store.
Works like a charm!
I've been doing that for years and so far no damage to my guitars
Ciao!
Simon.
m...@m.com
<mike-m...@home.com> wrote:
Ive wrapped mine in black felt and have never had a problem.
m.
Reply to: michae...@home.com
StratKat
-- Ive used copper pipe insulation (black or greyish looking soft foam)
with no problem on the finish. Ive used car hose material as well.
Surgical soft rubber tubing is fine if you can get it from a hospital.
The trick to getting this stuff on the stand is to put talcum powder
inside the tube before trying to slide it on. Then after the tubing is
in place run hot water in it to rince out the powder. Whatever you
choose, check the finish on your guitar regularly just in case...
Website: http://www.StratKat.20m.com
Gear pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=194259
Lessons: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=194259&a=9462000
Favorite Site: The F.D.P. http://www.fenderforum.com
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Before you buy.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
"StratKat (Robby on the FDP)" <rsi...@atcc.necsyl.com> wrote in message
news:910i2m$mct$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Surgical soft rubber tubing is fine if you can get it from a hospital.
I've been told that some surgical rubber tubing reacts with nitrocellulose
lacquer finishes and shouldn't be used for this.
Anyone know how to tell whether a given piece of surgical tubing is safe for
nitro finishes or not?
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Polfus
nitro finishes or not?>
>Later,
>Andrew Mullhaupt
Might not be....the thing is what plastic does with bleeding colors or
absorbing them.
Peace,
Polfus
http://www.geocities.com/PolfusPage
Kate Ebneter
>
> >Anyone know how to tell whether a given piece of surgical tubing is safe for
> nitro finishes or not?>
> >Later,
> >Andrew Mullhaupt
>
> Might not be....the thing is what plastic does with bleeding colors or
> absorbing them.
Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER? Anyway, I wouldn't trust ANY surgical
tubing with a nitro finish. If I put a guitar on a stand, I either get the
kind with the big foamy black kind of padding on 'em, or I put a cloth over
the rubber.
Kate Ebneter
Collector of Noise Toys
Polfus
>From: Kate Ebneter ebn...@ix.netcom.com
>Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER?>
A bunch is, but they have these plastic man-made thingies these days, so I
thought he was referring to those. You are right, though, indeed.
>Anyway, I wouldn't trust ANY surgical tubing with a nitro finish. If I put a
guitar on a stand, I either get the kind with the big foamy black kind of
padding on 'em, or I put a cloth over the rubber.>
>Kate Ebneter
I agree...can't trust it if you don't know exactly what it is.
Peace,
Polfus
http://www.geocities.com/PolfusPage
tcl...@frank.polymer.uakron.edu
store them in a nitrogen atmosphere, just to be safe.
>
> Kate Ebneter
> Collector of Noise Toys
>
js
wrote:
>In article <3A47B190...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Kate Ebneter <ebn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Polfus wrote:
>> >
>> > >Anyone know how to tell whether a given piece of surgical tubing is
>safe for
>> > nitro finishes or not?>
>> > >Later,
>> > >Andrew Mullhaupt
>> >
>> > Might not be....the thing is what plastic does with bleeding colors
>or
>> > absorbing them.
>>
>> Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER? Anyway, I wouldn't trust ANY
>surgical
>> tubing with a nitro finish. If I put a guitar on a stand, I either get
>the
>> kind with the big foamy black kind of padding on 'em, or I put a cloth
>over
>> the rubber.
>
>store them in a nitrogen atmosphere, just to be safe.
>
>
>
Hmmmm, whipp-its..........
Kate Ebneter
>
> > Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER? Anyway, I wouldn't trust ANY
> surgical
> > tubing with a nitro finish. If I put a guitar on a stand, I either get
> the
> > kind with the big foamy black kind of padding on 'em, or I put a cloth
> over
> > the rubber.
>
> store them in a nitrogen atmosphere, just to be safe.
Ever _seen_ what rubber surgical tubing can do to a guitar finish? Even
after only a few hours? It's not pretty, believe me. I'm not one to coddle
my guitars, particularly, but I also don't go out of my way to damage them.
James M. Kaihatu
>
>store them in a nitrogen atmosphere, just to be safe.
>
So we should ship them to, say, Neptune? Any guitarists
on Neptune?
JMK
"When I see the glory,
I ain't gonna worry...."
Television - "Glory"
(remove "nospam" to email)
TODD CLARK
> > > Kate Ebneter, Collector Of Noise Toys, initially inquired:
> > >
> > > Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I wouldn't trust ANY surgical tubing with a nitro
> > > finish. If I put a guitar on a stand, I either get the
> > > kind with the big foamy black kind of padding on 'em, or
> > > I put a cloth over the rubber.
> >
> >
> > Store them in a nitrogen atmosphere, just to be safe.
>
> And Kate then further queried:
>
> Ever _seen_ what rubber surgical tubing can do to a guitar
> finish? Even after only a few hours? It's not pretty, believe
> me. I'm not one to coddle my guitars, particularly, but I also
> don't go out of my way to damage them.
My son Tecumseh's SG Special Gothic was recently marred with six
serious marks by spending only two weeks on a ten year old guitar stand
with surgical rubber. These surgical stands NEVER loose the ability to
damage a nitrocellulose finish, we found out the hard way.
The stands with the black foam require cloth overlays for the first
year. I accidentally got my older and newer stands mixed up and did
some damage to the finish of my Les Paul Studio Gothic.
I am wondering if this susceptibility to stand damage is inherent in
any other brands of guitar in addition to Gibson?
--
TODD TAMANEND CLARK
Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian
Fellow Collector Of Noise Toys
Now Available: "Owls In Obsidian" on compact disc from
Primal Pulse Records, PO Box 98, Greensboro PA 15338
Kate Ebneter
>
<snippage>
> I am wondering if this susceptibility to stand damage is inherent in
> any other brands of guitar in addition to Gibson?
Any guitar with a nitrocellulose finish is susceptible to such damage, which
includes many older instruments. Some of the newer finishes will also interact
with the materials used on stands. I try not to leave any guitar on a stand
for more than a few hours. A guitar is much safer, in many, many ways, in its
case.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
"Kate Ebneter" <ebn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3A47B190...@ix.netcom.com...
> Polfus wrote:
> >
> > >Anyone know how to tell whether a given piece of surgical tubing is
safe for
> > nitro finishes or not?>
> > >Later,
> > >Andrew Mullhaupt
> >
> > Might not be....the thing is what plastic does with bleeding colors or
> > absorbing them.
>
> Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER?
I don't know. And then there's synthetic and natural rubber. But the last
time I was at a hospital, they had a lot of stuff that I thought was PVC,
but that's not what is usually called surgical tubing even if that is what
most surgical tubing is.
> Anyway, I wouldn't trust ANY surgical
> tubing with a nitro finish. If I put a guitar on a stand, I either get the
> kind with the big foamy black kind of padding on 'em, or I put a cloth
over
> the rubber.
I used to use socks for that.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Tom Spellman
> A guitar is much safer, in many, many ways, in its
> case.
>
on my stands all the time now. Usually I drape an extra strap or two over
the neck holder too, to avoid any contact. Why dosen't someone just make
these stands with felt covering over the contact points (oops, I better
patent that quick)? Too slippery?
Tom
Kate Ebneter
>
> "Kate Ebneter" <ebn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3A47B190...@ix.netcom.com...
> > Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER?
>
> I don't know. And then there's synthetic and natural rubber. But the last
> time I was at a hospital, they had a lot of stuff that I thought was PVC,
> but that's not what is usually called surgical tubing even if that is what
> most surgical tubing is.
Hmmm, PVC I almost think I'd trust. Though of course, I've never seen a
guitar stand with PVC surgical tubing on it. ;-)
> > Anyway, I wouldn't trust ANY surgical
> > tubing with a nitro finish. If I put a guitar on a stand, I either get the
> > kind with the big foamy black kind of padding on 'em, or I put a cloth
> over
> > the rubber.
>
> I used to use socks for that.
I have a bunch of Z.Vex pedals that come wrapped in shop rags instead of in
boxes -- I use the Z.Vex shop rags for that most of the time. :-)
Willie K. Yee, MD
frequently, and yes it is slippery. Montellone or Mortoro or one of
these luthiers makes a fancy wooden guitar stand with felt contact
points.
Tom Spellman wrote:
> Why dosen't someone just make
> these stands with felt covering over the contact points (oops, I better
> patent that quick)? Too slippery?
>
> Tom
--
Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry
http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band
http://www.bigbluebigband.com
Remove "DONTSPAM" from return address to reply.
Alex Lawson
up against a bookcase or a wall or something. I mean, ok, sure I knock them
over a few times but hey - no rubber marks....few nicks tho.
Doesn't bother me, i buy guitars for playing.
Later,
Alex
[ok, no flames, i understand some people are bothered about marks, and they
should be, but after the first one I stopped worrying about them]
[not that people shouldn't stop after the first.....aww hell]
Jack A. Zucker
kind of soft black foam instead of the surgical tubing. I excitedly bought
it to replace the triple stand I currently use that has surgical tubing. (I
keep cotton cloth over the tubing).
Amazingly, the triple stand wouldn't work because with tilt-back pegheads
like Gibson uses, the pegheads hit each other when on the stand. It must
have been designed for Fender guitars!
--
--
Jack A. Zucker
E-Mail: j...@jackzucker.com
Jazz Guitar Page: http://www.jackzucker.com
"Tom Spellman" <tspe...@home.com> wrote in message
news:WGW16.72493$w35.12...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
flemming j.
Alex Lawson <Alex....@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A48A7D5...@bigfoot.com...
Does it really matter, with those marks?
If you're a musician what really matter is
that you have a good instrument that is
playable, or what?
Jack A. Zucker
> Does it really matter, with those marks?
> If you're a musician what really matter is
> that you have a good instrument that is
> playable, or what?
The finish bubbles, becomes sticky/wet and peels off. I think *THAT*
matters.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
> "Andrew P. Mullhaupt" wrote:
> > I used to use socks for that.
>
> I have a bunch of Z.Vex pedals that come wrapped in shop rags instead of
in
> boxes -- I use the Z.Vex shop rags for that most of the time. :-)
Problem with that is the ratio of guitars to pedals for you is probably the
reciprocal of that for me.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
tcl...@frank.polymer.uakron.edu
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <d...@zen-pharaohs.com> wrote:
>
> "Kate Ebneter" <ebn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3A47B190...@ix.netcom.com...
> > Polfus wrote:
> > >
> > > >Anyone know how to tell whether a given piece of surgical tubing
is
> safe for
> > > nitro finishes or not?>
> > > >Later,
> > > >Andrew Mullhaupt
> > >
> > > Might not be....the thing is what plastic does with bleeding
colors or
> > > absorbing them.
> >
> > Isn't surgical tubing usually RUBBER?
>
> I don't know. And then there's synthetic and natural rubber. But the
last
> time I was at a hospital, they had a lot of stuff that I thought was
PVC,
> but that's not what is usually called surgical tubing even if that is
what
> most surgical tubing is.
they use PVC in some IV bags, that way you can go home from
the hospital with that "new car smell" in your veins.
Smakutus san..
>
> "flemming j." <flemmin...@koebenhavn.mail.telia.com> wrote in message
> > Does it really matter, with those marks?
> > If you're a musician what really matter is
> > that you have a good instrument that is
> > playable, or what?
>
> The finish bubbles, becomes sticky/wet and peels off. I think *THAT*
> matters.
Hmmm... I haven't seen it do this, but I have seen it make dark brown
marks on a neck. They look like cigarette burns. Very nasty..
Outt..
Jeff.
Joe Finn
> The finish bubbles, becomes sticky/wet and peels off. I think *THAT*
> matters.
>
I have noticed this problem with surgical tubing and other materials too. What
I have done is wrap the area in question with yarn or string. If this is done
carefully you can cover the stand's prongs with a nice tight wrap. Voila! No
more stand marks! ....joe
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Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
I was an auto body refinisher, and mechanic.
Most of the new guitars I see, even the Asian clones. Are cleared with
Acrylic-Urethane catalyzed finishes.
The older finishes must be Lacquer, Shellac or Varnish. Lacquer is not
damaged by water as is Shellac and varnish.
If you are having problems, try a product called Arma-Flex, by Armstrong. It
is used to insulate automotive and outside condenser units for air
conditioning.
It does not absorb moisture, as I am sure that is where your problem is
coming from. As surgical rubber oxidizes, it retains moisture.
I hope this helps, because I used to leave my custom painted helmet in my
race car, for weeks: painted side against the Arma-Flex used as roll cage
tubing.
Sincerely,
Julio
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:t3326.136040$IP1.4...@news1.giganews.com...
S. Hart
Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote:
>If I may interject?
>
>I was an auto body refinisher, and mechanic.
>
>Most of the new guitars I see, even the Asian clones. Are cleared with
>Acrylic-Urethane catalyzed finishes.
Doesn't seem to be many problems with the newer finishes and
guitar stands.
>The older finishes must be Lacquer, Shellac or Varnish. Lacquer is not
>damaged by water as is Shellac and varnish.
I think we're talking about lacquer finishes here.
>If you are having problems, try a product called Arma-Flex, by Armstrong. It
>is used to insulate automotive and outside condenser units for air
>conditioning.
>
>It does not absorb moisture, as I am sure that is where your problem is
>coming from.
That's not the problem. The binders in the lacquer are
reacting with something in the plastic/rubber and softening.
I don't know what armaflex is exactly, but it's some sort of
synthetic elastomer, and there's a good chance that it or
one of the gases it gives off will react with the finish.
I bet Haney or Hinman know about this stuff.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
"Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:MYa26.173235$DG3.3...@news2.giganews.com...
> If I may interject?
>
> I was an auto body refinisher, and mechanic.
>
> Most of the new guitars I see, even the Asian clones. Are cleared with
> Acrylic-Urethane catalyzed finishes.
>
> The older finishes must be Lacquer, Shellac or Varnish. Lacquer is not
> damaged by water as is Shellac and varnish.
The older finishes (and some of the newer ones) are definitely
nitrocellulose lacquer. This is not a water problem. It is a chemical
reaction between the nitrocellulose lacquer and some sorts of rubber tubing
used as cushions on some guitar stands.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Steve
nitrocellulose lacquer. This is not a water problem. It is a chemical
reaction between the nitrocellulose lacquer and some sorts of rubber tubing
used as cushions on some guitar stands.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt>>
And watch out for the old anugahyde couches still sitting in more than a few
basement rumpus rooms...I once saw a Martic D-28 WELDED to one of those...the
back was stuck tight.
Steve (SEFSTRAT)
webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
tcl...@frank.polymer.uakron.edu
yeah, the VOC's coming out of the polymer are dissolving
the cellulose. but, you gotta think about putting an expensive
guitar on a cheap stand. I never liked those junky guitar stands,
you could knock them over almost as easy as leaning it against
something. A reasonable stand would be built like an open
case.
> I bet Haney or Hinman know about this stuff.
>
tcl...@frank.polymer.uakron.edu
probably more like solvation than a chemical reaction
Mike
>
> probably more like solvation than a chemical reaction
>
>
What's solvation if it's not a chemical reaction?
Mikey :o)
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
"Mike" <Spam...@nospam.co.earth> wrote in message
news:92d10u$50d$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> <snip>
> >
> > probably more like solvation than a chemical reaction
> >
>
> What's solvation if it's not a chemical reaction?
You beat me to it; I was about to mention this because someone else reminded
me of the same fact (in another context) just a few days ago.
But I think it's more than just the nitrocellulose dissolving dark stuff in
the tubing. I am told the discoloration on the neck is not necessarily the
same color as the tubing.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Jack A. Zucker
What can you replace the surgical tubing with? Some folks a while back
suggested buying the black water pipe insulation. That worked terribly. Even
epoxy wouldn't stick to the stuff which was 5x thicker than the surgical
tubing. Anyone know where to get the small black tubing that you see on more
modern stands?
I even bought a brand new 3 way stand from GC only to find out that the
headstocks of the guitars touch together. Apparently it was made for fender
guitars and not guitars with a pitch to the headstock.
So until I find a proper 3-way stand, I have to fix the current one...
Jaz
James Andrews
: Ever _seen_ what rubber surgical tubing can do to a guitar finish? Even
: after only a few hours? It's not pretty, believe me. I'm not one to coddle
: my guitars, particularly, but I also don't go out of my way to damage them.
Agreed. That's why I only keep the Epi with the superduper tone-killing
plastic finish on the stand with the tubing...
Jas.
--
James Andrews
Philadelphia, PA
tcl...@frank.polymer.uakron.edu
> The real question is:
>
> What can you replace the surgical tubing with?
try terry cloth and duct tape.
js
wrote:
>The real question is:
>
>What can you replace the surgical tubing with? Some folks a while back
>suggested buying the black water pipe insulation. That worked terribly. Even
>epoxy wouldn't stick to the stuff which was 5x thicker than the surgical
>tubing. Anyone know where to get the small black tubing that you see on more
>modern stands?
>
I replaced mine with some of that clear plastic stuff for water hose
applications. YOu know what I'm talking about?
I don't know why I did it, maybe because I needed to buy something
from the hardware store that day and remember some other guy
mentioning he did it too. I'm just a sheep.
>I even bought a brand new 3 way stand from GC only to find out that the
>headstocks of the guitars touch together. Apparently it was made for fender
>guitars and not guitars with a pitch to the headstock.
>
Bust out the arc welder and make it right then.
js
Steve
Mikey :o)>>>>
Hmm. Perhaps the people at the solvation army will know.
::::ducking::::
cjt&trefoil
stage, though.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
> The real question is:
>
> What can you replace the surgical tubing with? Some folks a while back
> suggested buying the black water pipe insulation. That worked terribly.
Even
> epoxy wouldn't stick to the stuff which was 5x thicker than the surgical
> tubing. Anyone know where to get the small black tubing that you see on
more
> modern stands?
I don't. But you can use old cotton socks or rags until you figure out an
elegant solution.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Gary Hendershot
Andrew P. Mullhaupt [smul...@home.com] a écrit dans l'article:
>> The real question is:
>>
>> What can you replace the surgical tubing with? Some folks a while back
>> suggested buying the black water pipe insulation. That worked terribly.
>> Even epoxy wouldn't stick to the stuff which was 5x thicker than the
>> surgical tubing. Anyone know where to get the small black tubing that
>> you see on more modern stands?
>
> I don't. But you can use old cotton socks or rags until you figure
> out an elegant solution.
I think I would opt for Teflon tubing -- even Teflon around surgical
rubber. I'm also under the assumption that the clear tubing used for
water lines in aquariums is an inert material. Plastic tubing rated
for fuel lines should work as well, since it can handle volitile
petroleum products.
C:\Gary_H@>
http://www.gary-hendershot.com/
mailto:ghen...@gary-hendershot.com
mailto:ghend...@gmx.de (junk mail)
Houston, Tejas, Estados Unidos
Jack A. Zucker
Shellac and Varnish are not damaged by water unless you leave them out in a
rain forrest.
Steve
plastic--you know, the kind you stretch over a window and hit with a hair dryer
to make taut. He put it over the tubing on his stand and heated it, and it
shrink-wrapped the rubber tubing.
Seemed to work for him.
Marc Mercer
Jack A. Zucker wrote in message ...
>"Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
>> The older finishes must be Lacquer, Shellac or Varnish. Lacquer is not
>
>Shellac and Varnish are not damaged by water unless you leave them out in a
>rain forrest.
I left a coupla three Les Pauls out in a rain forest in - Venezuela? - no,
it was Costa Rica, one time for about 6 1/2 years; kinda sweetened the tone
on 'em a bit, but I'd go down there every other month or so and bash 'em
against trees an' kick dirt 'n' stuff on 'em. Sometimes they were hard to
find 'cause the monkeys would run off with 'em and get 'em all gunked up
with chlorophyll and bananas and such - man, you talk about sweet tone? I
wonder whatever happened to them git-boxes...
Wait - maybe I'm just imagining this- ?
Pig Feetz suck, Hog Moss is where its at
>
> Does it really matter, with those marks?
> If you're a musician what really matter is
> that you have a good instrument that is
> playable, or what?
>
I paid 1400 dollars for my guitar, and 12 for my stand...
do you think It matters?
you must be playing a squire..
-steven
Jack A. Zucker
news:20001228100048...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
> I have a buddy who used one of those "winterize your windows" shrink
> plastic--you know, the kind you stretch over a window and hit with a hair
dryer
> to make taut. He put it over the tubing on his stand and heated it, and
it
> shrink-wrapped the rubber tubing.
>
> Seemed to work for him.
DUH - I can't believe I didn't think of that. Thanks Steve!
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[]
[] I left a coupla three Les Pauls out in a rain forest in - Venezuela? - no,
[] it was Costa Rica, one time for about 6 1/2 years; kinda sweetened the
tone
[] on 'em a bit, but I'd go down there every other month or so and bash 'em
[] against trees an' kick dirt 'n' stuff on 'em. Sometimes they were hard to
[] find 'cause the monkeys would run off with 'em and get 'em all gunked up
[] with chlorophyll and bananas and such - man, you talk about sweet tone?
So then, you must have prepped the finish with mayonaisse...
----
There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much
destructive feeling as moral indignation, which permits
envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue.
-- Erich Fromm
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Kyser
<Pig Feetz suck>; "Hog Moss is where its at" <steve...@yahoo.com> wrote
in message news:92fnst$eqb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
Why are the both of them not recommended for bar tops?
Julio
PS
Remember, I'm a woodworker.
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:DQG26.176804$DG3.3...@news2.giganews.com...
Jack A. Zucker
> news:DQG26.176804$DG3.3...@news2.giganews.com...
> > "Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > > The older finishes must be Lacquer, Shellac or Varnish. Lacquer is not
> >
> > Shellac and Varnish are not damaged by water unless you leave them out
in
> a
> > rain forrest.
"Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:BdV26.4040$n5.9...@news6.giganews.com...
> May I ask then:
>
> Why are the both of them not recommended for bar tops?
DUH - Alcohol dissolves shellac.
Regarding varnish, it is water proof but still not suitable to be sitting
UNDER water. Bartops are done either in epoxy, urethane, or formica.
My coffee table is varnished and I've spilled coffee, alcohol, water, soda,
you name it. Never picked up a single stain or ring. Now, if I dropped it in
the bathtub overnight it would sustain some damage. You may be a woodworker
but I think you may need to review your finishing data.
Steve
>My coffee table is varnished and I've spilled coffee, alcohol, water, soda,
>you name it. Never picked up a single stain or ring. Now, if I dropped it in
>the bathtub overnight it would sustain some damage. You may be a woodworker
>but I think you may need to review your finishing data.
>
>--
>Jack A. Zucker
Well, Jack, he probably was reviewing it but he just wasn't.....er...finished.
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
Water and alcohol soften shellac and varnish!
Denatured alcohol re-solvates shellac and paint thinner re-solvates varnish.
I am certified in PPG and Martin Senour/Sherman Williams automotive paints,
and have taken every furniture finish/re-finish I could in the past seven
years. Last count was twenty five.
The tubing oxidation can not possibly re-solvate the finish on a guitar
enough to stain the wood. The surgical rubber on the guitar stands are made
of "LATEX" as are surgical gloves. Not the one that the doctor examines you
with.
I suggest that you engage your brain before your typing fingers!
A reply with other than a duh, would have gotten a much more respectful
reply!
We never know who is on the other side of the connection. on your side,
"You're a retard"
On my side, "I'm educated" and "Just injured"
When you stop living at home with mommy and daddy, playing "WANNA BE" star.
I took my disability and turned it into lesson learned, and educated my self
further.
With kind regards,
Julio
"Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:BdV26.4040$n5.9...@news6.giganews.com...
Kate Ebneter
>
<snip>
> The tubing oxidation can not possibly re-solvate the finish on a guitar
> enough to stain the wood. The surgical rubber on the guitar stands are made
> of "LATEX" as are surgical gloves. Not the one that the doctor examines you
> with.
Well, then, maybe you could explain to us why it is that the "surgical
tubing" found on inexpensive guitar stands DOES dissolve the finish? Eh?
Because it is a well-known fact that it does...
Kate Ebneter
Collector of Noise Toys
S. Hart
Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote:
>The tubing oxidation can not possibly re-solvate the finish on a guitar
>enough to stain the wood.
I don't think solvate is the right word to describe what
happens. If that's all it was, you could just let the finish
dry and repair it. With the damage I've seen, you have to
remove what's left of the lacquer and start over.
Chitown Rocker
as an argument. I am trying to learn here.
I have never heard about surgical tubing on
guitar stands hurting guitar finishes until this
thread started. I have had many guitars over
the years that have spent a lot of time on stands
and I've never noticed any damage. I baby my
guitars and would have noticed any damage if
it was there. Surgical tubing has been used on
guitar stands at least as long as I have been
playing. (18 yrs.) If it was so harmful, why hasn't
someone come up with a better alternative or just
discontinued the use all together?
I own 5 guitars which I play constantly and I hate
the idea of having to case them everytime I get
done with them. Many times when I pick up my
guitars, it's a spontaneous thing. I get an inspiration
or an urge to play and knowing I have to uncase the
guitar, check the tuning and plug it in is enough to
squash the inspiration. Then again, a ruined guitar
wouldn't do much for my mood either! :-)
So what's the deal? How do I keep my guitars
on stands AND protect them?
CR
Joe Finn
> So what's the deal? How do I keep my guitars
> on stands AND protect them?
>
>
Just to reiterate my previous suggestion: if the stand prongs are
wrapped with string, yarn or other fabric the tubing problem is solved.
It's also a good idea to check a guitar in a music store like JAZ
suggests for marks. It's common for guitars in stores to sit on stands
for extended periods of time. The damage is easy to see.
I have used the old Hamilton folding stands without problems. They
are still available and are not expensive. .....joe
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] To the articulate ass that said duh!
[]
[] Water and alcohol soften shellac and varnish!
You'll have to excuse Jack -- tight shoes tend to make one cranky.
----
"I tell you the more I think, the more I feel that there
is nothing more truly artistic than to love people."
-- Vincent Van Gogh, in a letter to his brother
Jack A. Zucker
> You'll have to excuse Jack -- tight shoes tend to make one cranky.
You'll have to excuse Chris.
Loose lips make one run off at the mouth.
Dan Stanley
> "Not A Speck Of Cereal" <Xchriss...@Xhome.comtX> wrote in message
> > You'll have to excuse Jack -- tight shoes tend to make one cranky.
>
> You'll have to excuse Chris.
>
> Loose lips make one run off at the mouth.
Loose lips, tight shoes
and wiiii-iii-aye-ld women
Is the only kind of life
I'll everrrrr understayand...
js
wrote:
Misty fin-i-sh,
Hur-r-r-r-ts the eye
Without warrrrr-ning
The tubing has dyed
jhun dunt dunt dunt
eating its nitro
jhun dunt dunt dunt
sold by the gro-ss count
jhun dunt dunt dunt
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] "Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote in message
[] > "Not A Speck Of Cereal" <Xchriss...@Xhome.comtX> wrote in message
[] > > You'll have to excuse Jack -- tight shoes tend to make one cranky.
[] >
[] > You'll have to excuse Chris.
[] >
[] > Loose lips make one run off at the mouth.
[]
[] Loose lips, tight shoes
[] and wiiii-iii-aye-ld women
[] Is the only kind of life
[] I'll everrrrr understayand...
What a silly man.
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
Like I said, courteous posts, get courteous replies.
But, to Kate and the other reasonable people in here. I have an appointment
with a scientist/researcher, that specializes in the disease I have.
Secondary to Injury, it's called "RSD" 9Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy).
I don't argue that there is damage, but when 1970's to eighties cars were
shipped. The surgical rubber was used on the door edges, to prevent
scratching. There was never any damage. But the car manufacturers used many
paint types.
My guess would be that: "The damage comes from ozone, as the LATEX hose
decays"
Kate, sorry if I offended you in any way, or for that matter. Anyone in the
group. I came here to learn, not flame.
Mr. eloquence started the disrespect, and I responded in kind.
Sincerely to all,
Julio
PS
Ozone damages two component acrylic urethane!
If it damages that, my bet is that it would damage the nitrocellulose
lacquer. I did mention using Armstrong Arma-Flex. It can be bought at any
air conditioning supply shop!
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:PDt36.5582$n5.1...@news6.giganews.com...
Daniel R. Haney
> Just to reiterate my previous suggestion: if the stand prongs are
> wrapped with string, yarn or other fabric the tubing problem is solved.
Sounds like a plan and a good way to recycle old socks.
> It's also a good idea to check a guitar in a music store like JAZ
> suggests for marks. It's common for guitars in stores to sit on stands
> for extended periods of time. The damage is easy to see.
I thought about it and remembered that rubber is hardened by polymerization
accelerants, mostly organo-zinc sulfur compounds. The residual accelerant
is usually under one percent for gum surgical rubber so it takes weeks
for it to soften a guitar finish by contact.
The original polymerization accelerant for rubber was elemental sulfur.
Several generations of chemical R&D have refined the choices and methods
so that non-sulfides are also employed, but they look no more agreeable
than organo-zinc sulfides -- mostly epoxides, peroxides, or halo-alkanes
plus zinc.
-drh
--
Frank Hudson
>
> I have used the old Hamilton folding stands without problems. They
> are still available and are not expensive. .....joe
The old Hamilton stands were the only ones which gave me the finish
problem. Go figure.
-Frank Hudson
remove the "x" when replying
Web page with sound samples, gear pics and tributes at:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~fhudson/
Les Cargill
Are those accelerants stable, or will they leach (for lack of
a better term) out of the tubing over time? Is there some
way to hasten thier departure?
> -drh
> --
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
"Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:_Ox36.150495$IP1.5...@news1.giganews.com...
> I don't argue that there is damage, but when 1970's to eighties cars were
> shipped. The surgical rubber was used on the door edges, to prevent
> scratching. There was never any damage. But the car manufacturers used
many
> paint types.
I'll bet none of those paint types were nitrocellulose lacquer. That would
be pretty strange car paint in the '70s and '80s.
But it's the kind of guitar finish that reacts with surgical tubing.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
cjt&trefoil
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" wrote:
>
> "Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:_Ox36.150495$IP1.5...@news1.giganews.com...
>
> > I don't argue that there is damage, but when 1970's to eighties cars were
> > shipped. The surgical rubber was used on the door edges, to prevent
> > scratching. There was never any damage. But the car manufacturers used
> many
> > paint types.
>
> I'll bet none of those paint types were nitrocellulose lacquer. That would
> be pretty strange car paint in the '70s and '80s.
>
When did they stop using it?
icarusi
news:3A4D97CD...@ix.netcom.com...
> Well, then, maybe you could explain to us why it is that the
"surgical
> tubing" found on inexpensive guitar stands DOES dissolve the finish?
Eh?
> Because it is a well-known fact that it does...
Natural latex is vulcanised using sulphur. There may be some sulphur
residue, or traces of unused sulphur within the latex, which leaches
out over time and attacks finishes?
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Jack A. Zucker
news:_Ox36.150495$IP1.5...@news1.giganews.com...
Possibly but that doesn't make me wrong on 3 points:
1) Varnish is not water or alcohol soluble
2) Shellac is not water soluble
3) Surgical tubing bubbles lacquer finishes.
Jaz
Dan Stanley
> [] > > You'll have to excuse Jack -- tight shoes tend to make one cranky.
> [] >
> [] > You'll have to excuse Chris.
> [] > Loose lips make one run off at the mouth.
> []
> [] Loose lips, tight shoes
> [] and wiiii-iii-aye-ld women
> [] Is the only kind of life
> [] I'll everrrrr understayand...
>
> What a silly man.
It's a gift.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] > [] Loose lips, tight shoes
[] > [] and wiiii-iii-aye-ld women
[] > [] Is the only kind of life
[] > [] I'll everrrrr understayand...
[] >
[] > What a silly man.
[]
[] It's a gift.
Don't ever change--it would upset the balance of existence as we know it.
Well, okay -- once a year, but ONLY the underwear.
Bulldog
substitute for year with excellent results. Available at Home Depot, etc.
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <smul...@home.com> wrote in message
news:zSz26.76897$w35.13...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...> news:Mzr26.139517$IP1.4...@news1.giganews.com...
> > The real question is:
> >
> > What can you replace the surgical tubing with? Some folks a while back
> > suggested buying the black water pipe insulation. That worked terribly.
> Even
> > epoxy wouldn't stick to the stuff which was 5x thicker than the surgical
> > tubing. Anyone know where to get the small black tubing that you see on
> more
> > modern stands?
>
> I don't. But you can use old cotton socks or rags until you figure out an
> elegant solution.
>
> Later,
> Andrew Mullhaupt
>
>
>
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
At about that time, the car makers were phasing out "Acrylic Lacquer" but
they were still using it on about 50% of the cars.
Acrylic Lacquer re-solvates with the thinner used to reduce it. The other
50% were various Acrylic Enamels and Powder Coatings. I believe that the
surgical tubing might not have been on the Acrylic Lacquer cars enough time,
to cause the damage.
Otherwise, I'm sure that the Acrylic Lacquer cars would have had the same
problems. Which returns me to my theory that: the oxidizing Latex, is
releasing Ozone.
Sincerely,
Julio
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <smul...@home.com> wrote in message
news:2Iz36.87826$w35.14...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
About 1957. Nitrocellulose lacquer was totally phased out on cars in about
1962.
Sincerely,
Julio
"cjt&trefoil" <chel...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3A4EDBDD...@prodigy.net...
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
you'd better loosen up your underwear!
I think you need size 50's or to go on a diet!
When you asked paint companies as many questions as I have, and you built as
many country reproductions as I have.
Then and only then can you speak to me!
You pompous ass hole!
WATER DOES SOFTEN VARNISH AND SHELLAC!
Sincerely,
Julio
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:hvH36.189142$DG3.4...@news2.giganews.com...
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
"Dan Stanley" <stan...@tiac.net> wrote in message
news:92nf91$p...@news-central.tiac.net...
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
I think the only way to stabilize the chemicals that leach out, is to put
the rubber under water for a few weeks.
That's about the time the cars had the tubing on the door edges. The dealers
prepped the cars as soon as they came off of the truck.
Sincerely,
Julio
"Les Cargill" <lcar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3A4EC4A1...@worldnet.att.net...
Julio The Crippled Wood Worker
The sulpher emitions in Central Pennsylvania, cause "Acid Rain" Which kills
the most expensive of two component clears, and stains the base coat under
the clear!
Sincerely,
Julio
"icarusi" <ica...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0qG36.6802$I5.129666@stones...
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Julio
>
> "cjt&trefoil" <chel...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:3A4EDBDD...@prodigy.net...
> >
> >
> > "Andrew P. Mullhaupt" wrote:
> > >
> > > "Julio The Crippled Wood Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > > news:_Ox36.150495$IP1.5...@news1.giganews.com...
> > >
> > > > I don't argue that there is damage, but when 1970's to eighties cars
> were
> > > > shipped. The surgical rubber was used on the door edges, to prevent
> > > > scratching. There was never any damage. But the car manufacturers
used
> > > many
> > > > paint types.
> > >
> > > I'll bet none of those paint types were nitrocellulose lacquer. That
> would
> > > be pretty strange car paint in the '70s and '80s.
> > >
> >
> > When did they stop using it?
>
>
> About 1957. Nitrocellulose lacquer was totally phased out on cars in about
> 1962.
That sounds about right. This is why they could use surgical rubber without
damage to the finish.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
S. Hart
Worker" <ju...@nospam.net> wrote:
>Hi Andrew:
>
>At about that time, the car makers were phasing out "Acrylic Lacquer" but
>they were still using it on about 50% of the cars.
>
>Acrylic Lacquer re-solvates with the thinner used to reduce it. The other
>50% were various Acrylic Enamels and Powder Coatings.
So, no nitro lacquer on cars at that time.
> I believe that the
>surgical tubing might not have been on the Acrylic Lacquer cars enough time,
>to cause the damage.
Or maybe the acrylic binders don't react with latex.
>Otherwise, I'm sure that the Acrylic Lacquer cars would have had the same
>problems. Which returns me to my theory that: the oxidizing Latex, is
>releasing Ozone.
How does this theory apply to guitars with a nitro lacquer
finish?
Daniel R. Haney
> Haney wrote:
>> [sulfur compounds in latex attack guitar finish]
>
> Thanks for that clue!
>
> The sulpher emitions in Central Pennsylvania, cause "Acid Rain" Which kills
> the most expensive of two component clears, and stains the base coat under
> the clear!
At last!
Someone actually noticed!
As I think about it, plastics and other molded stuff have a
"release" compound on their outsides so they won't stick to
the mold or the extrusion nozzle. I don't know what's used
but it could be a major contributor to the problem.
If I wanted to use latex rubber as guitar stand padding,
I'd run it through the dishwasher a dozen times or so.
-drh
--
Tom Plunket
> Couldn't agree more. I've taken to putting a polishing cloth over the tubing
> on my stands all the time now. Usually I drape an extra strap or two over
> the neck holder too, to avoid any contact. Why dosen't someone just make
> these stands with felt covering over the contact points (oops, I better
> patent that quick)? Too slippery?
My Ultimate guitar stands have that. Plus they fold flat and
it's nigh-on trivial to carry a dozen of them at once. ;)
-tom!
--
Happiness is one solid hunk of mahogany.
email if you have a Time guitar for sale!
Morgan Coe
>
> My Ultimate guitar stands have that. Plus they fold flat and
> it's nigh-on trivial to carry a dozen of them at once. ;)
I've been looking for something like that forever, after I saw
one somewhere, one time. Finding folding stands is hard enough,
but they always have NON-FOLDING pieces at the bottom, which
mostly defeats the whole pupose. Who makes these "ultimate
guitar stands"?
Morgan.
--
Updated 12/17/1900, with new mp3s...
The High Steppin' Nickel Kids AND Leatherface
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/8518/
Steve
>one somewhere, one time. Finding folding stands is hard enough,
>but they always have NON-FOLDING pieces at the bottom, which
>mostly defeats the whole pupose. Who makes these "ultimate
>guitar stands"?
Um.....Ultimate. Same people who make Ultimate keyboard stands, and so on.
Steve (SEFSTRAT)
webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
johns...@my-deja.com
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
johns...@my-deja.com
Did I get this right??
Bueller? . .. . Bueller? . . . .
Anyone? . . . Anyone? . . ..
: )
Sonic VI
I would say it depends on the guitar's finish. if you have a newer catalyzed
poly finish then surgical tubing shouldn't hurt it one bit. If you have
nitrocellulose lacquer finish then cloth might be a better idea. The plastic
tubing could wear through the finish at the points of contact.
Daniel..
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] > So.... is the bottom line.... rubber/latex bad.... plastic/cloth good?
The pre-CBS plastic tubes were much warmer.
----
There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much
destructive feeling as moral indignation, which permits
envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue.
-- Erich Fromm
Mike Healy
When did Fender and Gibson stop using the nitrocellulose lacquer?
Mike Healy
Robert Barker
news:9452re$rd6$1...@poisson.nosc.mil...
of their instruments. Gibson does more of it than Fender, production-wise, I
believe. I think most of the Fender Custom Shop guitars still use nitro..