"Realbook" type charts for Steely Dan tunes

[RS]

I've been listening to Steely Dan's Gaucho and Aja albums a lot
lately. I've seen some rather lame cowboy chord charts for the tunes,
but obviously those are over-simplified.

Wondering if anyone has seen reasonably accurate chord charts for
those tunes.

[van]

I just use the Dan Songbooks I find in the library. They sound pretty
accurate to me. I've done a few of them with chord-melody solo guitar
arrangements, and it sounds alright to me.

[pmfan57]

There are definitely exact guitar transcriptions available for Steely
Dan. Everything is usually spot on with grids, etc.

But they're not at all like a fake book. I think with rock in general
people want to learn exactly how to play the entire guitar part.

[RS]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:27:24 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Hal Leonard? I think that's what I saw that had simple open-string
chords with block fingering diagrams.

S.D. arrangements are fairly complex, withall kinds of alterations, so
I thought they would have been significantly intriguing that someone
would have done 'realbook'-like charts.

[van]

The Real Book just has chord symbols. The book I used had the actual
voicings of the piano chords written out in standard notation. Some of
their tunes have up to eight chord changes in one bar. Ignore the
block fingering diagrams, and read the notes.

[RS]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:50:32 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com>

That would be good. Do you remember the publisher?

[pmfan57]

On Feb 16, 5:13 pm, RS <R...@nospam.com> wrote:

Hal Leonard usually has more than one version. There is almost always
one that's exactly like the record, and sometimes an "easy" version.
Here's an example of a "guitar recorded version" book.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Steely-Dan-Recorded-Version/dp/B002F8L6NK/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1329453295&sr=8-14

[Des Higgins]

> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Steely-Dan-Recorded-Version/dp/B002F8L6NK/...

I used to listen to SD a lot in the 80s but had totally forgotten
about them until recently when I went to see local SD tribute band in
Dublin called Aja. They play all of Aja, note for note, plus maybe 2
hours of other tunes (just about every SD tune you have ever heard),
and it is fantastic. They wrote really clever tunes with great
instrumentation, vocals, lyrics etc.
On Aja, they had an outrageous collection of session musicians (like
Wayne Shorter) and the Steve Gadd drumming on the title track is
legendary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGmB7Jksl5k

Des

[pmfan57]

> Des- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I listen to their greatest hits in the car pretty often and my kids
like the songs a lot. I also have their full collection on my iPod
and occasionally play that. Great stuff. Some really good guitar
stuff on many of the tracks with top guys like Elliott Randall,
Baxter, Dias, Carlton, et al.

[Tim McNamara]

While Steely Dan was on the radio a lot during my high school and
college years, I never really dug them. Everything was *too* perfect.
It was the opposite of jazz. Jazz requires risk taking and perfection
requires risk avoidance. While the tunes look like jazz on paper, they
don't sound like jazz because everything sounds so controlled.

--
This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in
unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.

Theodore Roosevelt

[pmfan57]

Well they aren't jazz. But the guys listened to and loved it and
incorporate some elements, like solos by Phil Woods or Wayne Shorter
for example, into their music. And the guitarists did nice
improvisations too.

Who said their music was jazz?

[Tim McNamara]

In article
<907325a0-71a8-4855...@hk10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

pmfan57 <jwra...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 12:29 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > While Steely Dan was on the radio a lot during my high school and
> > college years, I never really dug them.  Everything was *too*
> > perfect. It was the opposite of jazz.  Jazz requires risk taking
> > and perfection requires risk avoidance.  While the tunes look like
> > jazz on paper, they don't sound like jazz because everything sounds
> > so controlled.
>

> Well they aren't jazz. But the guys listened to and loved it and
> incorporate some elements, like solos by Phil Woods or Wayne Shorter
> for example, into their music. And the guitarists did nice
> improvisations too.

Sure. I read a very interesting interview with Donald Fagen in Ben
Sidran's book _Talking Jazz_. Fagen clearly had big ears and listened
to a lot of jazz.

> Who said their music was jazz?

Nobody in this thread, anyway.

[RS]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:31:38 -0600, Tim McNamara
<tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:

>In article
><907325a0-71a8-4855...@hk10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> pmfan57 <jwra...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 17, 12:29 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>> > While Steely Dan was on the radio a lot during my high school and
>> > college years, I never really dug them.  Everything was *too*
>> > perfect. It was the opposite of jazz.  Jazz requires risk taking
>> > and perfection requires risk avoidance.  While the tunes look like
>> > jazz on paper, they don't sound like jazz because everything sounds
>> > so controlled.
>>
>> Well they aren't jazz. But the guys listened to and loved it and
>> incorporate some elements, like solos by Phil Woods or Wayne Shorter
>> for example, into their music. And the guitarists did nice
>> improvisations too.
>
>Sure. I read a very interesting interview with Donald Fagen in Ben
>Sidran's book _Talking Jazz_. Fagen clearly had big ears and listened
>to a lot of jazz.
>
>> Who said their music was jazz?
>
>Nobody in this thread, anyway.

Categories are difficult. I think an argument could be made that a
chart for Black Cow (on AJA) would look every bit as 'jazz' as
Watermelon Man, for instance (as nebulous as that concept might be).

Anyway, there's a reason why I posted the query about their charts
here rather than in a rock-oriented newsgroup. I'm not sure SD could
be pigeonholed as a rock band now, and I doubt that most rock players
would have enough perspective on the changes in their tunes. No
offense to rockers--it's just a different kind of thing.

Categories aside, they've hired a lot of great jazz players for their
later sessions. They deserve credit for turning Chris Potter loose on
West of Hollywood, ending their Two Against Nature album on a great 4
minute sax solo. Definitely an unusual move.

BTW, I once asked Chris about that. He said that they kept the track
rolling, so he kept playing, assuming that they were going to fade it
out, but they didn't.

[RS]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 03:40:52 -0800 (PST), Des Higgins
<dazzh...@hotmail.com> wrote:


>I used to listen to SD a lot in the 80s but had totally forgotten
>about them until recently when I went to see local SD tribute band in
>Dublin called Aja. They play all of Aja, note for note, plus maybe 2
>hours of other tunes (just about every SD tune you have ever heard),
>and it is fantastic. They wrote really clever tunes with great
>instrumentation, vocals, lyrics etc.
>On Aja, they had an outrageous collection of session musicians (like
>Wayne Shorter) and the Steve Gadd drumming on the title track is
>legendary.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGmB7Jksl5k
>
>Des

Yeah, Gadd tears it up. I love the Aja album, but the tunes and guitar
work on Gaucho is amazing too. I believe Steve Kahn was the main
soloist then. What a unique lucid tone he got--unlike buckers, but
doesn't sound like single coils either. I've always wondered how he
did that. I think he may have been playing an old model Telecaster
Deluxe, with the 3+3 sorta-bucker pickups:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-classic-series-72-telecaster-deluxe-electric-guitar/511141000115000?src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=26041029

I've heard that the newer reissue pickups don't sound the same though.

[van]

On Feb 18, 11:53 pm, RS <R...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 03:40:52 -0800 (PST), Des Higgins
>

> <dazzhigg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I used to listen to SD a lot in the 80s but had totally forgotten
> >about them until recently when I went to see local SD tribute band in
> >Dublin called Aja.  They play all of Aja, note for note, plus maybe 2
> >hours of other tunes (just about every SD tune you have ever heard),
> >and it is fantastic.  They wrote really clever tunes with great
> >instrumentation, vocals, lyrics etc.
> >On Aja, they had an outrageous collection of session musicians (like
> >Wayne Shorter) and the Steve Gadd drumming on the title track is
> >legendary.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGmB7Jksl5k
>
> >Des
>
> Yeah, Gadd tears it up. I love the Aja album, but the tunes and guitar
> work on Gaucho is amazing too. I believe Steve Kahn was the main
> soloist then. What a unique lucid tone he got--unlike buckers, but
> doesn't sound like single coils either. I've always wondered how he
> did that.  I think he may have been playing an old model Telecaster
> Deluxe, with the 3+3 sorta-bucker pickups:
>

> http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-classic-series-72-telec...

>
> I've heard that the newer reissue pickups don't sound the same though.

The only solo I remember on Gaucho by Kahn was "Glamour Profession".
My faves were Carlton's solo on "Third World Man", and the guitar
parts to "Time Out Of Mind" by Knopfler.
That LP used 42 musicians and took them two years to complete.

[Sammo]

I have songbook for Gaucho and Fagen's Nightfly & Kamakiriad-- they
are all pretty accurate to my ears. Some are songs presented as "piano
sheet/arrangement" version and some have melody on different staff.

Some parts of the songs are not icluded, like intro and intrumental
section of the song Gaucho and I remember one song in Nightfly is
transposed half step to easier key.

For jazzier side of Steely Dan I would recommend Marian McPartland's
Piano Jazz CD. Half of it is interviews about their influences and
songs and whatnot and half of it is Becker and Fagen playing live with
Keith Carlock and Jay Leonhart as quartet.

Thanks,
Sampo

[pmfan57]

On Feb 18, 11:45 pm, RS <R...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:31:38 -0600, Tim McNamara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >In article

> ><907325a0-71a8-4855-b00d-2216b6e3e...@hk10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Maybe most rockers wouldn't, but the rock players they employed did a
great job.

[RS]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 18:02:18 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

A bit late catching up with this thread.

Carlton sounded great on Third World Man of course, but it's more like
the usual Carlton 335 sound.

Kahn played the solos on Glamour Profession and My Rival--both
beautiful, both with the same gorgeous tone. Almost single-coil-like,
but with the body of a humbucker. When I hear jazz guitarists say
they're looking for more clarity without losing rich mids, that's the
sound that always occurs to me.

I saw Kahn with another band back then, maybe right after that
recording, and I seem to remember a Tele with buckers. That's why the
idea of the 3+3 Fender buckers occurred to me. But the album credits
someone's "rare guitar collection", so maybe that wasn't Kahn's usual
guitar.

BTW, I heard that there was another tune recorded for Gaucho, but an
engineer inadvertantly erased the master! They could never get the
groove back when they tried to re-record it. What a horrible thing
all-around. It will no doubt follow that engineer around forever, if
he's even in the business any more.

[RS]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:22:31 -0800 (PST), Sammo
<sampok....@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have songbook for Gaucho and Fagen's Nightfly & Kamakiriad-- they
>are all pretty accurate to my ears. Some are songs presented as "piano
>sheet/arrangement" version and some have melody on different staff.

I meant to mention Nightfly. It's about the closest thing to Aja and
Gaucho, but some less ardent fans probably haven't heard it.

Kamakiriad never got to me. Doesn't seem to have the arranging magic,
and the guitar work sounds more haphazard. I don't think they used
their usual allstar guitar crew.

>For jazzier side of Steely Dan I would recommend Marian McPartland's
>Piano Jazz CD. Half of it is interviews about their influences and
>songs and whatnot and half of it is Becker and Fagen playing live with
>Keith Carlock and Jay Leonhart as quartet.
>
>Thanks,
>Sampo

I haven't heard that. Thanks, Sampo.

[Graham]

On Feb 24, 8:37 am, RS <R...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Kahn played the solos on Glamour Profession and My Rival--both
> beautiful, both with the same gorgeous tone. Almost single-coil-like,
> but with the body of a humbucker. When I hear jazz guitarists say
> they're looking for more clarity without losing rich mids, that's the
> sound that always occurs to me.

I don't really know Steve Khan's playing, but I have his 'chord
concepts' book and oddly enough, last night I was listening to the CD
that came with it. Most of the time he is demonstrating chord
voicings, but on a few of the tracks he obviously got a bit bored with
that and after a few minutes of chord stuff, plays a solo. He has a
great 'creamy' sort of sound, jazz tone but with a touch of rock.
Also excellent feel and control of dynamics on each note. I think he
was playing a 335-type guitar according to the book. Must check out
some of his proper CDs some time!

[kentburnside]

According to Carlton, that's how "Third World Man" ended up on
<Gaucho>. Once the master was erased, they didn't have time to cut
another tune before the release date; "TWM" was a leftover from <The
Royal Scam>.

As a kid I always assumed that was Carlton on "Glamor Profession."
Didn't know back then it was Khan, but what great playing that is.

Kent Burnside
www.kentburnside.com

[van]

> he's even in the business any more.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

That was a tune called "The Second Arrangement". I used to have a file
of it that someone sent me, but that was on another computer. They do
it live occasionally.
DF said he did Kamakiriad when he was in a depression, and wasn't
happy with it.
A lot of people just assume Carlton did most of the solos on SD
records, but in the case of Aja, that was Denny Dias on that great
solo on the title cut.

[RS]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:46:33 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

So it's around in some form? Where did you find it?

>DF said he did Kamakiriad when he was in a depression, and wasn't
>happy with it.

It often gets good reviews, but it's missing the usual Steely Dan
changes and interesting hooks.

>A lot of people just assume Carlton did most of the solos on SD
>records, but in the case of Aja, that was Denny Dias on that great
>solo on the title cut.

I've taken a second listen to Dias lately. I heard a live version of
Boddhisatva recently where he's flying through the changes. Fun to
hear. Interesting that he was with Fagen and Becker since the
beginning.