Question: Do your style-preferences dictate that you want to pick every note or
are left-hand techniques such as pull-offs a good fit with your tastes.
This is an important question that should be answered. Using strategically
placed pull-offs
will enable you to play extremely fast, but will also control somewhat your
playing style. Tal Farlow, a case in point, used pull-offs to his great
advantage in his great, early playing years.
I patterned my approach off his style and was rewarded with more speed than
I needed almost immediately. Over the years, however, I realized that playing
fast on a regular basis was ruining my playing and creativity.
Some years ago I started listening to vocalists and how they would phrase
and I noticed that the guitar and guitarists were very limited in this sense.
So I stopped playing fast as a habit and went back to playing more slowly with
all down strokes. What an awakening: The guitarist must at some point realize
his instrument is really "many" instruments of many styles and techniques which
all depend on the speed that one chooses to play at.
Chas
Question: Do your style-preferences dictate that you want to pick every
note or
are left-hand techniques such as pull-offs a good fit with your tastes.
Hi Chas.. Thanks for responding.. and I WILL check out some of the
earlier Tal Farlow recordings, that would be a treat anyway! Any
recomendations on recordings?
I'm not after speed as a means in itself, it's just that sometimes I
want to sound agressive... it just feels good when thats the state of
mind, or suites the tune I'm playing. I'm not opposed to slurs, and I
now use them quite a bit, but in trying to develop more picking speed, I
tend to PRACTICE picking each note. Pat Martino decribes his sound as
stacatto. Although to me it doesn't sound stacatto as in the true
definition of the word, each note does have a sharp attack. It creates a
lot of energy, and I think that's what I'm hearing, and want to develop
as another tool. I think I can say things with my playing in ballads and
medium tempo's, but fast bop tunes .. thats another story.
What is your right hand position like?
Do you contact the guitar with your hand (anchor your hand) while
picking the string, or does your hand float just above the strings?
Do you think learning to tap out complex rhythms would be a good
practice addition?? I've read about some players hearing lines more like
a percussionist would hear them.. more as pure rhythms... (maybe John
McLaughlin or Al Demeola). This makes sense to me, but how do you
practice something like that without taking up another discipline
(percussion?) Do you know of any books that are geared to this
approach to playing? I guess I need to talk to some percussion players
to.
Oh well... if you have any other ideas, I would appeaciate your
pointing me that way....
Thanks!
Danny
Chasna1 <cha...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990109155548...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
>>I just
>>can't seem to get the type of speed with articulation that some of the
>>players I admire seem to so easly pull off.
>
>Question: Do your style-preferences dictate that you want to pick every
note or
>are left-hand techniques such as pull-offs a good fit with your tastes.
>
On the other hand, I've been working really hard to lose the habit of
anchoring my right hand on the pickguard. It has slowed me down a little,
but it's also made me listen more closely to my sound. I'm also working
with my thumb (and I'm stymied by the upstroke thing!). But it's just
another sound. What I'm coming up with as a result of this free hand
(non-anchored) thing, and the thumb thing, is a repetoire of different
sounds, stuff I never had before. If the going gets good, bopping tempo,
sure I let the anchor down and start to groove in the most relaxed but
burning eights I can alternate pick, but when there's space, I'm trying to
stretch into some different things, mostly involving timbre and
articulation.
Hope this helps.
In article <3697B7...@mindspring.com>, moo...@mindspring.com wrote:
>I have played professionally for most of my life. I've done my share
>of woodsheddin' and still love to practice, and hone my skills.
>My question concerns right technique while using a plectrum. I just
>can't seem to get the type of speed with articulation that some of the
--
Gil Plantinga
New Paltz, NY
Gil Plantinga <gilp...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gilplant-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
>Maybe we just have a natural internal speed limit.....
My ability to THINK at speed is my limiter currently. I can hum and/or
play the melodies I want at lesser tempos. I can play 'licks' at higher
tempos. It is getting the 'THINKING' faster that is important.
> Can it be that we
>just need to learn to hear faster rhythmically... learning odd groupings
>tuplet figures... like a drummer, before we can play fast lines???
For me, this stuff is very important. One thing I've been doing recently
is playing along with the ride cymbal on recordings. [I do this
is while driving with a guitar laying in my lap, palm muting the high E
string and playing the ride cymbal part along with casettes].
For one thing, it has been a good listenning excercise. It let me really
focus in on how the ride cymbal and bass player are playing off each other
and the soloist while providing the backbone of the jazz sound.
From a technique point of view, you play a lot with dynamics in the right
hand, looseness, freedom from pick-orientation and specific beats. (I've
been playing with Jack DeJohnette's ride in Keith Jarrett Standards
settings. He doesn't just do chung-chungka-chung-chungka, but will
turn it back and forth at will
chung-chungka-chung-chungka /
chungka-chung-chung-chungka /
CHUNGka-chung-chung etc
Also, wedging in all those little triplet patterns...
I don't know, can't say its had immediate effects. I also work from drum,
books sometimes... play along with African music...
A thing I've been practicing in my jazz soloing is to always
start lines on an offbeat eighth-note, and as much as possible start
the line from this point with an arpegio (either ascending or descending)
The sound is hip, and since it doen't flow so naturally from my
hand or head, I know I'm working in a neglected area.
>THIS HAS GOTTEN SO LONG...
ditto.
>I would REALLY appreciate any help idea's or input on this subject..
Others have mentioned using other techniques than just trying to pick. I
would say that it should match up with the sound you want, if you want
a Pat Martino sound, then you're going to have to figure out how to get
a strong pick going through bridge-cable strings to work for you.
I added some techniques to my playing this past year, for the most part
to get speed in a specific sound I was interested in. They included
more aggressive hammer on/off (which I had sort of abandoned from my rock
days), and sweep techniques for arpegios and some scalar stuff.
[I was hoping to get the kind of speed in either Coltrane 'Sheets of
Sound' days or the kind of speed that pianists seem to get effortlessly.
No, I didn't get either, but I got some things I didn't have before].
[I also rejected some other techniques; tapping is at best a special effect
for me, and usin the right hand fingers for speed doesn't work as well as
developing the picking].
Bob Valentine wrote:
> From a technique point of view, you play a lot with dynamics in the right
> hand, looseness, freedom from pick-orientation and specific beats. (I've
> been playing with Jack DeJohnette's ride in Keith Jarrett Standards
> settings. He doesn't just do chung-chungka-chung-chungka, but will
> turn it back and forth at will
>
> chung-chungka-chung-chungka /
> chungka-chung-chung-chungka /
> CHUNGka-chung-chung etc
>
> Also, wedging in all those little triplet patterns...
>
--
Willie Kai Yee, M.D.
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry
wy...@mhv.net
http://www1.mhv.net/~wyee/index.html
21 Tricor Ave.
New Paltz, NY 12561
(914) 255-0660
"We are the Universe trying to understand itself."
-- Minbari saying --
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To: maran...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Really portable amps
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Any idea how much they weigh? Lightness is important.
> Hello again, I thought of one more portable amplifier that might be worth
> your while to investigate. Roland makes a keyboard/bass amp that is much
> larger than the small amplifiers that you suggested. It is powered by a
> battery. I believe it is rated at about 100 watts.
>
> cheers,
>
> marc
> >
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Willie Kai Yee, M.D.
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry
wy...@mhv.net
http://www1.mhv.net/~wyee/index.html
21 Tricor Ave.
New Paltz, NY 12561
(914) 255-0660
"We are the Universe trying to understand itself."
-- Minbari saying --
>It's interesting that their seems to be no standard technique for using
>the plectrum. The picking movement/energy can come from the entire
>riight arm, the wrist, the thumb and finger holding the pick, or any
>combination of the above. The right hand can be anchored to the bridge,
>the little finger (and other fingers) can be anchored to the pick guard,
>and probally other points of the guitar ie.. pickups etc... The right
>hand can also float just above the stings while the pick makes the only
>string contact.
Consensus seems to be growing that the floating technique is superior to
the anchored. However, regarding the balance of action between finger,
wrist, elbow, etc., I find that each technique produces a different sound.
Work for more paints on the pallette, techniques should be selected for
aesthetic reasons
>I know a couple of very fast bass players who use a
>combination of the thumb and fingers (either p and i, or p and m or p i
>and m, along with the up and down thumb thing).
Yes, but with bass there are vastly different ergonomics.
> I know to be a good player probally involves using a little of all
>these techniques, but I wish there was some method to this maddness like
>there is for every aspect of playing piano and other "legit"
>instruments...
Ah, the historical perspective.
>I guess only time will make that so. Does anyone know of
>any foreign or US publications on the subject of using a plectrum and
>development of speed??
How about THIS one!
> By the way I to am working on NOT anchoring my hand on the guitar and
>using mostly wrist movement (just as some of the other players have
>indicated in their post to this thread). I'm also expermenting with p i,
>p m, p i m, and down and up strokes with the thumb which sounds TERRIBLE
>right now.
To my knowlege, Wes is probably the only cat that ever really "got" the
upstroke thumb on single strings (as opposed to octave playing which I find
much easier).
It helps to try to develope a big knobby callous on the thumb.
--------
I'm starting to think of the pick like a bow. Orchestral string players
have to coordinate their bowing, and often that bowing varies greatly
between orchestras playing from the same score. So I look to the music
itself, whether it's written out or I'm improvising, to decide which pick
direction (alternate or cross), where the motion is comming from (wrist,
elbow), and also importantly how far from the bridge I'm picking. I also
use my thumb, thumb and fingers (pick usually in my mouth!), pick and
fingers in whatever comibination the music seems to call for. String
players go through all of these things arco and pizzicatto. Now where's my
Yo Yo Ma record?
> [big snip]
>To my knowlege, Wes is probably the only cat that ever really "got" the
>upstroke thumb on single strings (as opposed to octave playing which I find
>much easier).
>It helps to try to develope a big knobby callous on the thumb.
>
> [more snipped]
Are you talking about just the thumb going down/up/down/up, playing a
single note line on the (usually) bass strings? I saw a (French Canadian, I
think) guy named Sylvain Luc who was doing a travelling guitar show with
maker Robert Godin (LaSiDo guitars, etc.) at my local guitar shop who did
this (and a whole myriad of other things!) astonishinly fast and well.
He had a big thumbnail like a flamenco player, and he sort of flicked the
thumb up and down mostly from the second joint of the thumb (the one by the
web between the thumb and index finger), with a little bit of flexibility
in the third joint (closest to the tip). Amazingly fast, and clearly
articulated. Took me a while to even figure out what he was doing, and I
was only a few feet away.
I'd say it was the damnedest thing I ever saw, but he did a whole bunch of
_other_ things that might also have been the damnedest thing I ever saw!
Just picked up a guitar and _flew_ with it for 20 or 30 minutes, played all
sorts of stuff in all sorts of styles, improvising the whole way -
standards floating in and out of it - did I just hear April in Paris? -
along with bits of classical melodies, popular tunes, way out stuff. Kind
of reminded me sometimes of John Fahey/Leo Kotke guitar rag stuff,
sometimes Ralph Towner, sometimes Paco de Lucia - the guy was all over the
place! Then he'd put the guitar down, pick up a different one, go off into
a screaming distortion rock guitar kind of thing, and which planet are we
on now? Whew! Completely wore me out, just trying to listen to him!
Anyway, he was doing stuff with his RH thumb that I had never even thought of!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Chip Zempel
cze...@ns.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------
EARTH FIRST! .................. we'll pave the other planets later
I comp using pick'n'fingers. This sometimes ends up getting my hand way
off the guitar, curled around so that the pick and fingertips are all the
same distance from the strings. This is a fairly weak way to play pick style,
but I'll play this way sometimes, if I need a line in the middle of comping.
Normal plectrum line playing I'll have my hand more open, with my pinky sort of
rubbing the body or pickguard, picking from the wrist.
Playing (or attempting) very fast lines, I'll lock up the wrist
and play from the elbow.
For the most part, I alternate pick. I'll 'opportunistically' sweep
arpeggios and cross string stuff, but this is still coming together. Very
fast stuff will have a fair amount of pulling-off/hammer-on and sliding
too (by sliding meaning a scalar line might have four notes per string
where one of them is either an index or pinky slide, depending on
ascending or descending).
>Thanks for any help
>Danny
Bob Valentine
Yeah, Tony Williams work with Miles is great. He's a guy who can hang
for hours with the ride cymbal going backwards,
CHUNGka-chung- CHUNGka-chung /
with the CHUNGka made from 16'ths or faster. Pushes the beat like crazy.
One reason I play with the KJ standards stuff is that the tempos
are usually pretty reasonable. Some of Tony Williams playing with
Miles is at speeds (and sophistication) I'll never have.
And theres also Elvin Jones, and Roy Haynes, and Eddie Blackwell, and...
...well, one of the main reasons I'm getting guitar synthesizer stuff
is to play drums on the guitar. Guess I missed a calling...
Bob Valentine
>Are you talking about just the thumb going down/up/down/up, playing a
>single note line on the (usually) bass strings? I saw a (French Canadian, I
>think) guy named Sylvain Luc who was doing a travelling guitar show with
>maker Robert Godin (LaSiDo guitars, etc.) at my local guitar shop who did
>this (and a whole myriad of other things!) astonishinly fast and well.
>
>He had a big thumbnail like a flamenco player, and he sort of flicked the
>thumb up and down mostly from the second joint of the thumb (the one by the
>web between the thumb and index finger), with a little bit of flexibility
>in the third joint (closest to the tip). Amazingly fast, and clearly
>articulated. Took me a while to even figure out what he was doing, and I
>was only a few feet away.
I recently saw a video of Martin Taylor ("The World of Fingerstyle Jazz Guitar"
on Vestapol Video) and saw that he was doing the same thing with his thumb. He
plays rather complex fast bass lines along with the melody and rhythm parts and
as I watched carefully I discovered his up strokes with the thumb. I do a lot
of so-called double-thumbing (an old Blind Blake trick) to get multiple bass
notes from adjacent strings within the same beat, but I never thought about
using *up* strokes on bass lines.
Dick Schneiders
My favorite is using the pick while holding it in the mouth. Relaxes the
wrist, but my neck (The one under my head, not the one on the guitar)
gets kinda sore.
By far the best approach for developing right hand speed is through
the use of speed burst exercises.
!! USING A METRONOME / DRUM MACHINE !!, play in time sig 4/4 for a
4 measure cycle playing eighth notes at a comfortable tempo.
Now, convert the last pair of eighth notes (beat 4, measure 4) to
4 sixteenth notes. The secret is to be able to play the 1/16 notes
RELAXED and land CLEANLY on the downbeat of (beat 1, measure 1).
Next, convert the last 2! pairs of 1/8 notes to 1/16s, for a total
of 8 1/16 notes. Again, stay relaxed and clean. Continue increasing
the length of the speed burst. The longer the burst, the more difficult
it is to stay relaxed and clean.
Experiment with triplets & 1/16 triplets as well.
This technique is described in more detail in Scott Tennant's "Pumping
Nylon".
Good luck,
Keith Erskine
I don't speak for HP, and vice-versa.
By the way, am I the only person that hears picks making about as much
contribution to tone as strings, yet (enter broad generalization
mode) everyone talks about strings and no one talks about picks.
--Frank Hudson
remove "x" when replying
Frank - I'm a freak about picks, always changing them according to guitar,
string guage, and playing situation. Basically, I like to use small heavy or
extra-heavy jazz picks. I like to use the Dunlop jazz H3s for lighter guage
strings or quiet gigs, because they give a warmer tone. I use an extra-heavy
fender jazz pick for heavier strings or four-to-the bar rhythm playing, and
a heavy fender jazz pick for louder gigs, because it gives a sharper sound
that cuts through the mix better. I find if you play with the pick point
angled back so it brushes over the string more gently, you get a pick attack
sound like Grant Green. Anyway, I agree with you that picks are very
important to your sound. By the way, you might want to check out a little
book called "Picks! The Colorful Saga of Vintage Celluloid Guitar
Plectrums", by Will Hoover, Miller Freeman Books, San Francisco, 1995. It
gives an interesting history of how the picks we all know and love or hate
came to be as they are today.
Lawren.
>
>
>Frank - I'm a freak about picks, always changing them according to guitar,
>string guage, and playing situation. Basically, I like to use small heavy or
>extra-heavy jazz picks. Anyway, I agree with you that picks are very
>important to your sound.
The best picks I ever had were tortoise shell (before they were
banned) I bought in the Bahamas years ago. Also, for a nice round
warm sound I remember having lost my last pick on a gig years ago and
finishing up with a wooden match stick. Sounded great! Went thru
almost a whole box that night.<G>
Wes
>The best picks I ever had were tortoise shell (before they were
>banned) I bought in the Bahamas years ago. Also, for a nice round
>warm sound I remember having lost my last pick on a gig years ago and
>finishing up with a wooden match stick. Sounded great! Went thru
>almost a whole box that night.<G>
>
>Wes
I have seen my father use a tooth from a plastic comb. Long ago & far
away, combs were made from hard plastic, not nylon or whatever, & the
teeth could be broken out. Sounded pretty much the same as when he
used a real pick.
Gerry
I haven't tried the stylus pick but would like to. Where did you get
yours? How does it help your picking technique?
Thanks
Danny
Griffin Ga.
Gerry