Benedetto tailpiece on my 165
Max Leggett
replacing the stock tailpiece on my 165 with a Benedetto ebony
tailpiece. Looking at the catalogue and the endpice of my 165, it
appears to be something that even a cack-handed dolt like me could do.
Unscrew the old tailpiece [take the strings off first!] then unscrew
the endpin to remove the tailpiece. Screw endpin back in, then it's
just a matter of using the tailpiece fastener. I end up with three
little holes in the guitar, but the supermodels in the audience will
be too busy drooling over me to notice that [cough]. Is it really as
simple as that? Gotta be. If anyone's done it and I'm overlooking
something important, pls speak up.
--------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistake.
Freidrich "Hep Daddy" Nietzsche
---------------------------------
Mark Cleary
be anchored in metal ( the strings). That is why those old Super 4s and D'a
sound the best.
--
Mark Cleary
Hollenbeck Jazz Guitars the Finest
Handcarved Jazz Guitars
http://members.cox.net/ruthster/hollenbeck/
"Max Leggett" <kidk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4537f7f9.63540175@shawnews...
dhn...@sbcglobal.net
In the worst case, if you decide you do not like the tailpiece, the mod
is completely reversible without any trace it was ever done...unless
there are marks left where the base of the tailpiece or the saucony
cable contacts your guitar. Even in such a case, the marks would be
covered by the original tailpiece.
If you normally use a guitar strap when you play and if you utilize the
stock strap button to anchor the saucony cable, you will encounter a
small problem...i.e. you cannot mount both the saucony cable and a
guitar strap to the same strap button. I recently encountered this
issue when I mounted a Benedetto style ebony tailpiece on my Ibanez
AM70.
I replaced the stock strap button with a Dunlop strap lock device.
Like most strap locks, there are two basic parts - the button that
attaches to the guitar and a metal strap lock that attaches to the
strap. Dunlop's design is a little different in that the strap lock
mechanism utilizes a male insert that connects to the end of the
button. This leaves the portion of the strap button that would be
occupied by the saucony cable, completely accessible.
Check out Dunlop's website. Once you see a photo of Dunlop's strap
lock, it should be clear how it could be used to mount your Benedetto
tailpiece while still allowing the use of a guitar strap.
One other consideration is grounding the strings. In my case (on the
Ibanez) the ground wire connects to the metal TOM bridge. In your
case, the ground wire contacts the metal tailpiece where the strap
button and tailpiece connect to the guitar.
Good luck with the mod if you decide to do it and be sure to post your
review of the results.
Michael L Kankiewicz
How much do they want for a Benny tail? There's a guy who sells
beautifully inlaid ones on ebay at very reasonable prices. Just search
archtop tailpiece. He usually has a few up at a time, all different
designs.
MK
da...@redstoneaudio.com
dave
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:17:57 GMT, kidk...@gmail.com (Max Leggett)
wrote:
Jonathan
> Is there any advantage to this kind of tailpiece?
It looks cool.
It'll also give a slightly darker sound with a somewhat less distinct
attack, but in my experience the tonal difference isn't anything
dramatic. Whether or not that's an advantage is a matter of opinion. I
wasn't sure I liked it when I made the switch, but it's grown on me.
Max Leggett
Tx for the input. I recall reading an interview with Bob Benedetto in
which he said it really improved the tone, but he was likely looking
at it from a holistic design process rather than as an afterthought.
--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistake.
Freidrich "Hep Daddy" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------
Max Leggett
The rosewood ones are amazingly pretty, but $9? Have you tried one? At
that price I'd be concerned that they'd snap under the tension. The
Benny ebony tailpiece is $100. Ouch.
--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistake.
Freidrich "Hep Daddy" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------
Mark Cleary
Max,
Not all guitar makers believe that the ebony tailpiece is better sounding.
Mark Cleary
"Max Leggett" <kidk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45384af6.84785344@shawnews...
Tim McNamara
"Mark Cleary" <mcle...@verizondot.net> wrote:
>
> "Max Leggett" <kidk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:45384af6.84785344@shawnews...
> > On 19 Oct 2006 19:31:58 -0700, "Jonathan" <jgi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >da...@redstoneaudio.com wrote:
> > >> Is there any advantage to this kind of tailpiece?
> > >
> > >It looks cool.
> > >
> > >It'll also give a slightly darker sound with a somewhat less
> > >distinct attack, but in my experience the tonal difference isn't
> > >anything dramatic. Whether or not that's an advantage is a matter
> > >of opinion. I wasn't sure I liked it when I made the switch, but
> > >it's grown on me.
> > >
> > Tx for the input. I recall reading an interview with Bob Benedetto
> > in which he said it really improved the tone, but he was likely
> > looking at it from a holistic design process rather than as an
> > afterthought.
>
> sounding.
That's one of those subjective things. You've probably had a chance to
make comparisons on the same guitar. Most of us don't have the chance
to A/B the sound.
I have an archtop with a metal tailpiece and an archtop with a Benedetto
style tailpiece. But since the former is an Ibanez GB-10 and the latter
is a Cushman 17"-er, comparisons between them are useless. ;-)
But even if I compared my Cushman to a Johnny Smith, which is very
similar, the comparison would not necessarily be accurate because there
are so many other factors to influence the sound. The sound of the
Cushman changed quite a bit with different strings (it came with
D'Addarios which were a bit bright and jangly, I switched to DRs- which
I disliked- and now have TI GB112s on it which give it a nice throaty
fat acoustic tone).
The point is whether I like the sound of my guitar. I like both of 'em.
rain...@optonline.net
> I'm thinking [I got the StewMac catalogue in the mail this morning] of
> replacing the stock tailpiece on my 165 with a Benedetto ebony
> tailpiece. Looking at the catalogue and the endpice of my 165, it
> appears to be something that even a cack-handed dolt like me could do.
> Unscrew the old tailpiece [take the strings off first!] then unscrew
> the endpin to remove the tailpiece. Screw endpin back in, then it's
> just a matter of using the tailpiece fastener. I end up with three
> little holes in the guitar, but the supermodels in the audience will
> be too busy drooling over me to notice that [cough]. Is it really as
> simple as that? Gotta be. If anyone's done it and I'm overlooking
> something important, pls speak up.
>
Max Leggett
> Max. Maybe things have changed, but I bought one for my
>'63 L7C about 8 years ago. And was horrified to hear that
>the guitar would have to be cut to fit the tail-piece.
Aw, it's only an L7. Grab a cold chisel and a mallet. If you don't get
it quite right the first time you can always patch it up with some
duct tape.
--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistake.
Freidrich "Hep Daddy" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------
Jonathan
> Not all guitar makers believe that the ebony tailpiece is better sounding.
Not all players agree either. That's why I wouldn't do anything that's
irreversible. As long as you can go back all you stand to lose is some
money. I ended up keeping my ebony tailpiece, but you might not.
On the other hand, I think you need to give it some time. Live with it
for a few months before deciding if you like it or not. If you really
liked the sound of the instrument before making the change, you may
initially feel that you've lost something. You'll certainly lose a
certain edge to the sound, but IMO you'll only really know if that's ok
after you live with it for a while.
Max Leggett
Well, I've read all the advice and comments, and thanks to all. You'll
be appalled to know that I'm going to buy a tailpiece and a pickguard
with MOP inlay on ebay. Here's the tailpiece I'm considering
http://cgi.ebay.com/Archtop-Guitar-Part-Tailpiece-with-MOP-Art-Inlay-104_W0QQitemZ180036863207QQihZ008QQcategoryZ7266QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
I'll have the tartiest 165 on the block. I'll get thrown out of The
Jazz Guitar Club fer shure.
Greg Clayton
a tunematic bridge on my Johnny Smith. It's for the sound although the
improved intonation is an added bonus.
Greg
--
www.gregclayton.com
The official website of Jazz Guitarist Greg Clayton
"Max Leggett" <kidk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4538f34d.127879641@shawnews...
rpgu...@gmail.com
I bought an ebony tailpiece from that same guy a while back. It's very
nice, you won't be disappointed. I didn't end up using it for reasons
completely unrelated to its quality. I found the installation very
clumsy and it didn't *quite* fit on the chambered solidbody I had
bought it for. I ended up with a 175 style gold tp on that guitar, and
it sounds great. I bought the ebony mainly for looks (but would NOT
pay the Benedetto price).
Good luck-
Roger
dhn...@sbcglobal.net
One comment about the guy on e-Bay. I have purchased several ebony
tailpieces and pick guards from him. Quality is fine, especially if
you consider the cost.
The cable that "Inlaid Artist" ships with the Benedetto style
tailpiece is very thin compared to the Saucony cable you can purchase
from Stew Mac. In fact, it almost seemed like monofilament instead of
cable. I found the thin cable from the Inlaid Artist to be unusable.
I purchased the Saucony cable from Stew Mac and it was 1,000% better.
Using the Saucony cable (intended from the Benedetto ebony tailpiece)
will require that you drill out the holes in the Inlaid Artist ebony
tailpiece. This requires some skill and care...the tailpiece can
easily be damaged, cracked, etc.
Hope this information is useful.
Darryl
Max Leggett
>
>Using the Saucony cable (intended from the Benedetto ebony tailpiece)
>will require that you drill out the holes in the Inlaid Artist ebony
>tailpiece. This requires some skill and care...the tailpiece can
>easily be damaged, cracked, etc.
Tx, Darryl. At Stewmac they list two lengths: 6 7/8" and 7 3/4". What
length did you get, and for what body depth?
dhn...@sbcglobal.net
I mounted my Benedetto style tailpiece onto an Ibanez AM70 which is a
smallish ES-335 style guitar.
I'm honestly not sure which cable I would order...actually, if it were
me, I'd probably order both. With my luck, if I ordered just one, it
would be the wrong one and then I'd have to place a new order.
If you're interested, I can post a link to some photos of the
installation job I did.
Best regards,
Darryl
Michael L Kankiewicz
> On 20 Oct 2006 11:07:57 -0700, dhn...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> >
> >Using the Saucony cable (intended from the Benedetto ebony tailpiece)
> >will require that you drill out the holes in the Inlaid Artist ebony
> >tailpiece. This requires some skill and care...the tailpiece can
> >easily be damaged, cracked, etc.
>
> Tx, Darryl. At Stewmac they list two lengths: 6 7/8" and 7 3/4". What
> length did you get, and for what body depth?
You should wait until your tail arrives, see how the cord that comes with
it fits on your guitar, then order one at the correct length from SM.
MK
josh
end, or does the Benedetto allow for that? If I recall correctly Mr. B
doesn't use a ground on his guitars with floaters.
Max Leggett
>what about the string ground, does it not connect under the tailpiece
>end, or does the Benedetto allow for that? If I recall correctly Mr. B
>doesn't use a ground on his guitars with floaters.
Arrrgh ... I've just done a google on string ground and don't fully
understand it. If the strings aren't grounded the they're noisy until
you touch them? The ground is always to the tailpiece? Is there a
workaround?
--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistake.
Freidrich "Hep Daddy" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------
josh
best suggestions I got seemed to be to be to install a brass insert in
the new tailpiece and run a wire to the ground, or thread a wire to the
ball ends, never tried it though so I don't know if these solutions
would result in rattles or other problems. My understanding is that
with passive high impedance pickups, the strings basically act as
attenae for electrical noise and by grounding them you shunt all that
noise to ground. Having the strings in circuit is also what makes it
dangerous to touch and amp with reversed polarity, by the way, there
are some safety circuits that can be installed though that will blow if
any substantial current passes through them. As far as I'm aware the
only workaround is to live with the noise (which some people do) or
ground the strings.
geekg...@aol.com
Hi Max,
Installing a Benedetto tail piece does entail a little precision in
order to do it right, but you can do it youself with a little careful
work. I bought one from Bob Benedetto about 10 years ago and installed
it on an Epi Emperor reissue. I spoke to Bob himself for installation
tips.
The first thing he suggested was to actually cut out a small piece
of the binding where the two strands of the cable will meet the body.
The binding plastic is very soft and the cable will actually cut into
the binding otherwise. He suggested buying a bone nut blank and
cutting out the binding at the bottom of the guitar (the size of the
nut blank--a strat nut blank fit prefectly) and then super gluing the
nut in where the binding was. The binding is very soft and an exacto
knife will cut through it very easily (press lightly and slowly). Your
old tail piece will probably cover the binding piece if you decide to
put the old tail piece back on.
The other issue is that you will need to replace the metal strap
button with the ebony one provided. My strap button was barely big
enough to hold the cable from the tail piece. To install the ebony end
pin properly you need an end pin "reamer" its a tapered tool that will
widen the screw hole from the original strap button to match the taper
of the ebony end pin (which I super glued in). Basically you use the
reamer slowly and keep checking the end pin for fit. Then if you use a
strap, you will need to put the strap button near the end pin.
Obviously, these modifications are not reversable.
As far as the ground wire goes that was easily solved. I'm
surpirsed that Bob wasn't doing this. Although I'm sure he has
reasons. You can buy copper foil that has a sticky "tape" side. Prior
to installing the tail piece, I cut a length of the foil and stuck it
to the underside of the tail piece at the end where the strings go (so
that all of the ball ends of the strings would touch the foil). Then I
took the ground wire that should be protruding through a little hole
near the strap button hole and soldered it to the copper foil. The
wire was basically hidden by the tail piece when it was installed.
The cable for the new tail piece will stretch after a few days and
you'll need to tighten it again.
I can't say for sure whether it made a big difference in sound on
my plywood top guitar, but it looked great. I had also put one on a
second Epiphone after that. They worked fine. I don't own either
guitar currently, but they are still sporting the tailpieces from what
I understand.
Hope this helps,
--Eric Elias
Maskedrider
Yea, I did it. It's a beauty too. I also relaced the plastic finger
rest with the ebony finger rest that Chuck Wayne invented for
Benedetto. The idea is to remove all metal and plastic; it's ugly,
heavy, and causes a loss of legato since metal vibrates and may be
magnetic as to resonate. The tail piece is a no brainer. Fill in the
holes with super glue and touch up the finish with the the right color
nail polish or leave it clear.
The finger rest is difficult to install. Only works on single floaters
attached to the neck type guitars or for very brave players who aren't
afraid to drill into the neck. Once the floating pickup is removed just
line up the holes with the ebony block, drill 5/64 holes and epoxy the
ebony block to the ebony finger rest. HARD. Then throw away the metal
pickup and plastic pick guard and install a Benedetto floater.
Getting rid of the metal and plastic improves the legatto sound of the
guitar greatly. For one thing the F-hole isn't covered by a pick guard.
bsuth...@cox.net
Bryce
In article <4537f7f9.63540175@shawnews>, Max Leggett
Bryce
Regent. With the 013 flat wound webstrings.com NY Jazz strings this
"cheapo" guitar sounds legato The metal and plastic on this guitar
caused bright ringing which is now gone. The tail piece is easy;
fitting it correctly was the only trick -- MEASURE. In my case the
fastener was too long. So I tricked it out and shortened the underside
channel notches to shorten the faster length. Don't be frightened by
the string mis-alignment to the neck after putting on the E strings.
As tension builds the tail piece will align perfectly. I haven't got a
Benedetto pickup yet. Maybe in a few months. Got to get rid of the
rosewood bridge first. Ebony all the way !!!
Bryce
On Nov 21, 11:51 am, Maskedrider <crow...@blacklodge.com> wrote:
> Yea, I did it. It's a beauty too. I also relaced the plastic finger
> rest with the ebony finger rest that Chuck Wayne invented for
> Benedetto. The idea is to remove all metal and plastic; it's ugly,
> heavy, and causes a loss of legato since metal vibrates and may be
> magnetic as to resonate. The tail piece is a no brainer. Fill in the
> holes with super glue and touch up the finish with the the right color
> nail polish or leave it clear.
>
> The finger rest is difficult to install. Only works on single floaters
> attached to the neck type guitars or for very brave players who aren't
> afraid to drill into the neck. Once the floating pickup is removed just
> line up the holes with the ebony block, drill 5/64 holes and epoxy the
> ebony block to the ebony finger rest. HARD. Then throw away the metal
> pickup and plastic pick guard and install a Benedetto floater.
>
> Getting rid of the metal and plastic improves the legatto sound of the
> guitar greatly. For one thing the F-hole isn't covered by a pick guard.
>
> Bryce
>
> In article <4537f7f9.63540175@shawnews>, Max Leggett
>
tomb...@jhu.edu
> Oh yea, forgot to mention I did the work myself on a re-issue Epi
> Regent. With the 013 flat wound webstrings.com NY Jazz strings this
> "cheapo" guitar sounds legato
Legato?