Archtops Guitar Bridges: Wood vs. Metal
HP
Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
Rick Stone
> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
It makes a pretty HUGE difference in the sound of a guitar. Rather than
try to describe it here, why not just go get a decent wood bridge and
try it? You can easily swap out the bridge on an archtop. Or if you've
already got a wooden bridge, just try replacing the saddle (measure the
distance between the screws first, but if it's a Gibson, you can
literally just put the tunomatic bridge on the existing base).
I picked up a nice rosewood bridge on eBay a few months ago for about
$25 from a regular dealer. Put it on an Ibanez ArtCore 16" and it made
a VERY noticeable improvement to the sound.
--
Rick Stone
website: www.rickstone.com
Some of My Other sites: www.myspace.com/rickstonemusic
www.facebook.com/rickstonemusic www.sonicbids.com/rickstone
www.reverbnation.com/rickstone www.youtube.com/jazzand
www.cdbaby.com/all/jazzand http://jazzguitarny.ning.com
Mark Cleary
post this topic has been heavily commented on.
Rick Stone wrote:
> HP wrote:
>> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
>> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
>
> It makes a pretty HUGE difference in the sound of a guitar. Rather than
> try to describe it here, why not just go get a decent wood bridge and
> try it? You can easily swap out the bridge on an archtop. Or if you've
> already got a wooden bridge, just try replacing the saddle (measure the
> distance between the screws first, but if it's a Gibson, you can
> literally just put the tunomatic bridge on the existing base).
>
> I picked up a nice rosewood bridge on eBay a few months ago for about
> $25 from a regular dealer. Put it on an Ibanez ArtCore 16" and it made
> a VERY noticeable improvement to the sound.
>
--
Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church
TD
> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
Test by playing the tune Night And Day in Eb. Try the metal bridge
first, and wooden bridge next, and then back to the metal bridge. Then
rent a dvd of the old film, Bridge Over the River Quai. Try that...
-TD
tom walls
>
> It makes a pretty HUGE difference in the sound of a guitar. Rather than
> try to describe it here, why not just go get a decent wood bridge and
> try it? You can easily swap out the bridge on an archtop. Or if you've
> already got a wooden bridge, just try replacing the saddle (measure the
> distance between the screws first, but if it's a Gibson, you can
> literally just put the tunomatic bridge on the existing base).
>
> I picked up a nice rosewood bridge on eBay a few months ago for about
> $25 from a regular dealer. Put it on an Ibanez ArtCore 16" and it made
> a VERY noticeable improvement to the sound.
>
> --
> Rick Stone
I swapped out a tunomatic for a wooden bridge on an Epi ES175 and it
made it sound more metallic and plinky. Was I surprised! Put the
tunomatic right back on (then watched Bridge Over the River Kwai). My
point is that, although it may be a cheap experiment, the wooden
bridge swap is no sure thing.
Joe Finn
news:b8c6afce-aee5-49fe...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
Soundwise there is a big difference between wood and metal. My personal
preference is for ebony but rosewood also sounds good. You will also see
tune-o-matics with nylon saddles which have a sound quality all their own.
.....joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
6fingers
"Test by playing the tune Night And Day in Eb. Try the metal bridge
first, and wooden bridge next, and then back to the metal bridge. Then
rent a dvd of the old film, Bridge Over the River Quai. Try that..."
-TD
Please step back from the computer, and leave the comedy to
professionals.
dwabeslim
>
> Test by playing the tune Night And Day in Eb. Try the metal bridge
> first, and wooden bridge next, and then back to the metal bridge. Then
> rent a dvd of the old film, Bridge Over the River Quai. Try that...
>
> -TD
Good advice! I've had decent results thumbing through old dental
supply catalogs.
GC
Joey Goldstein
> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
With a wooden bridge saddle your guitar's intonation will be a crap
shoot unless you have someone who knows what they're doing (and good
luck finding someone like that) built you a compensated saddle for your
exact instrument using one brand/gauge/type of strings.
The store-bought compensated wooden saddles never quite nail the
intonation in my experience.
As for me... Tuning is too important to me and I always use a
high-quality metal bridge saddle on my archtops.
But all Tune-O-Matic replacement saddles are not created equal. Some of
the cheaper ones just plain sound brittle and bad, especially the ones
that come stock on most Chinese-made guitars.
Some of the Gotoh's are OK as are some of the others from Allparts or
WD, etc.
But to be safe the genuine Gibson ABR-1 and Nashville saddles always
sound as good as it gets. But they're pricey. I prefer the Nashville
because it is much less likely to rattle than the ABR-1.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
TD
LOL....OK, ok.
TD
Quite true and my point was same. Same here, and I prefer wood
usually. Let's all whistle together now...
-TD
Maj6th
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:cd096$4bd5bf29$adceef3c$16...@PRIMUS.CA...
> HP wrote:
>> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
>> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
>
> With a wooden bridge saddle your guitar's intonation will be a crap shoot
> unless you have someone who knows what they're doing (and good luck
> finding someone like that) built you a compensated saddle for your exact
> instrument using one brand/gauge/type of strings.
>
> The store-bought compensated wooden saddles never quite nail the
> intonation in my experience.
>
> As for me... Tuning is too important to me and I always use a high-quality
> metal bridge saddle on my archtops.
>
> But all Tune-O-Matic replacement saddles are not created equal. Some of
> the cheaper ones just plain sound brittle and bad, especially the ones
> that come stock on most Chinese-made guitars.
> Some of the Gotoh's are OK as are some of the others from Allparts or WD,
> etc.
> But to be safe the genuine Gibson ABR-1 and Nashville saddles always sound
> as good as it gets. But they're pricey. I prefer the Nashville because it
> is much less likely to rattle than the ABR-1.
>
I agree, I also think a tune-o-matic adds a small amount of sustain. Two
things I always do, is make sure the wooden base is sanded down to match the
guitar top (this isn't hard to do, just tape a piece of sandpaper upside
down on your top,) and use nylon or Tusq saddles to calm the treble and
high-mids spike.
Maj6th
Dave
> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
FWIW, I can tell a friend's experience with an Ibanez PM100. A few mos
after he bought it (which was about 2 1/2 - 3 yrs ago), he was in an old
school frame of mind, so he put an ebony bridge on it. 6 mos ago he put the
stock bridge back on. Said the gtr was much more crisp, less muddy than
with the ebony.
Joey Goldstein
> tom walls wrote:
>> On Apr 26, 7:31 am, Rick Stone <rickst...@rickstone.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It makes a pretty HUGE difference in the sound of a guitar. Rather than
>>> try to describe it here, why not just go get a decent wood bridge and
>>> try it? You can easily swap out the bridge on an archtop. Or if you've
>>> already got a wooden bridge, just try replacing the saddle (measure the
>>> distance between the screws first, but if it's a Gibson, you can
>>> literally just put the tunomatic bridge on the existing base).
>>>
>>> I picked up a nice rosewood bridge on eBay a few months ago for about
>>> $25 from a regular dealer. Put it on an Ibanez ArtCore 16" and it made
>>> a VERY noticeable improvement to the sound.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Stone
>>
>>
>> I swapped out a tunomatic for a wooden bridge on an Epi ES175 and it
>> made it sound more metallic and plinky. Was I surprised! Put the
>> tunomatic right back on (then watched Bridge Over the River Kwai). My
>> point is that, although it may be a cheap experiment, the wooden
>> bridge swap is no sure thing.
>
> Were you careful about the shaping, width and angle of the string slots
> in the bridge? This also makes quite a bit of difference.
>
Hmm.
Could you please describe the correct way to notch the string slots on a
wooden bridge saddle Rick?
I've always just left the saddles un-notched, figuring that the metal
string would eat its way into the wood with time. I've never had a
problem with the strings sliding around on the saddle without notches.
Bueonos notches so to speak. (Sorry... Couldn't stop myself.)
paul
>
> With a wooden bridge saddle your guitar's intonation will be a crap
> shoot unless you have someone who knows what they're doing (and good
> luck finding someone like that) built you a compensated saddle for your
> exact instrument using one brand/gauge/type of strings.
>
I live near sadowsky and had him do this for my JH. the problem is,
now I want to change string gauges again. also, I find that the
intonation does fluctuate seasonally quite a bit anyways.
> But to be safe the genuine Gibson ABR-1 and Nashville saddles always
> sound as good as it gets. But they're pricey. I prefer the Nashville
> because it is much less likely to rattle than the ABR-1.
>
hmmm, are you referring to the gotoh nashville tune o matic? is this a
floating bridge? if not, does anyone have any recommendations for a
floating metal bridge? I don't want to do anything too invasive to my
guitar, but would like to have a better intonation option.
--paul
Mark Cleary
normally use. Small changes in the string gauge do not really make that
big of a difference but it is a lot more work to really get them
accurate. Some guitars are easier than others it just depends on small
variations.
Joey Goldstein wrote:
> HP wrote:
>> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
>> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
>
> With a wooden bridge saddle your guitar's intonation will be a crap
> shoot unless you have someone who knows what they're doing (and good
> luck finding someone like that) built you a compensated saddle for your
> exact instrument using one brand/gauge/type of strings.
>
> The store-bought compensated wooden saddles never quite nail the
> intonation in my experience.
>
> As for me... Tuning is too important to me and I always use a
> high-quality metal bridge saddle on my archtops.
>
> But all Tune-O-Matic replacement saddles are not created equal. Some of
> the cheaper ones just plain sound brittle and bad, especially the ones
> that come stock on most Chinese-made guitars.
> Some of the Gotoh's are OK as are some of the others from Allparts or
> WD, etc.
> But to be safe the genuine Gibson ABR-1 and Nashville saddles always
> sound as good as it gets. But they're pricey. I prefer the Nashville
> because it is much less likely to rattle than the ABR-1.
>
--
Joey Goldstein
The ABR-1 and the Nashville are both metal bridge saddles with
individual intonation screws and saddles for each string and they are
both made by Gibson.
They both sit on top of most standard rosewood archtop bridge base (or
ebony).
The real ABR-1 actually uses posts that are slightly thinner than the
Nashville posts although the post spacing is the same as for the
Nashville. The Nashville bridge post widths are the most common design.
I.e. It'll be easier to match up a Nashville saddle with most of the
available bridge bases than it will be for the ABR-1.
I.e. To use a real Gibson ABR-1 you'll need to buy one of Gibson's
rosewood bridge bases designed for the ABR-1 saddle.
Lots of other companies make copies of the ABR-1 and the Nashville.
IMO Don't trust the copies.
Dan Adler
Joey,
I'm also a metal saddle lover - I'll give the Nashville a try.
I have an old unidentified metal bridge which should probably be
replaced...
Thanks for the recommendation,
-Dan
http://danadler.com
Keith
I currently have rosewood saddles on my ES175's and ebony saddles on
my L5CES as well as my acoustic archtops. I find that I can play with
more dynamics and articulation when I use a wood saddle. The
intonation may not be as good, but to me, it's worth it to get the
sound I like.
Keith
On Apr 26, 7:10 am, HP <7cape...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mitch
> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
I lean towards wooden bridges on archtop gutars. The tuning advantage
of a tune-o-matic can be argued, but I'll forfeit that for what I
believe is better tone. Plus those metal saddles tend to be rather
midrange-y and murky sounding for me (Look at what most luthiers use.
That should tell you something).
Mitch
Joey Goldstein
Keep in mind that the Nashville's wider post-holes will wobble a bit on
a normal Gibson-made wooden bridge base because all of the Gibson-made
bridge bases, that I am aware of, are built for the pole-width of the ABR-1.
The rosewood bases you can buy from Stew-Mac and AllParts fit the
Nashville posts, but not the ABR-1 posts.
charles robinson
"Mitch" <msei...@pair.com> wrote in message
news:fdd8228b-0a02-4a5d...@z17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This one was discussed years ago here and the conclusion was that if you
want a wooden bridge that is as in tune as a tune-o-matic you set it up with
the metal one first, mark where the base goes and then place a sheet of
paper over the adjusted saddles and mark the tops on the paper. Then take
the paper to a luthier and have a bridge carved so that the marks match.
Charlie
drthoma...@gmail.com
> The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
The third option is a tuna matic with wood saddles.
Mark Cleary
I like this you save me work ahead of time, now all I do is carve the
puppy to shape!
--
Tim McNamara
<c37267b6-9c17-4855...@k36g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
"tomb...@jhu.edu" <drthoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
You can tune a guitar but you can't tune a fish.
drthoma...@gmail.com
> In article
> <c37267b6-9c17-4855-9a46-3afc11dd9...@k36g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> "tombr...@jhu.edu" <drthomasfbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 26, 6:10 am, HP <7cape...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> > > Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
>
> > The third option is a tuna matic with wood saddles.
>
> You can tune a guitar but you can't tune a fish.
What's better than roses on the tuna?
Jonathan (Cleve)
Keith
>
> Keep in mind that the Nashville's wider post-holes will wobble a bit on
> a normal Gibson-made wooden bridge base because all of the Gibson-made
> bridge bases, that I am aware of, are built for the pole-width of the ABR-1.
> The rosewood bases you can buy from Stew-Mac and AllParts fit the
> Nashville posts, but not the ABR-1 posts.
>
You also have to be aware of that issue if you are going from a t-o-m
to wood. I don't like to put an entirely new bridge on my guitars,
especially if it is a vintage instrument, so I prefer to just change
the saddle and keep the original bridge base. The post-hole spacing
can vary with different bridges though. On all my Gibson's, I have the
original base's and I have managed to find old Gibson wood saddles.
For ES175's that is relatively easy, because the old compensated
rosewood saddles from ES125's, L7's etc. fit perfectly. There are
often vintage Gibson rosewood bridges available on eBay. Beware,
however, because I notice that most of the bridges on eBay are new
imports, and sellers don't always tell you that. For my L5, I bought
an ebony Johnny Smith saddle many years ago from a repair shop. I
can't remember if they cut the spacing, or if it was already cut, but
it is the same spacing as an ABR-1 and it is perfect on the L5 base.
If you can't find original Gibson saddles, a good luthier could
certainly make a saddle. Just my two cents worth.
Keith
Rick Stone
> Could you please describe the correct way to notch the string slots on a
> wooden bridge saddle Rick?
>
> I've always just left the saddles un-notched, figuring that the metal
> string would eat its way into the wood with time. I've never had a
> problem with the strings sliding around on the saddle without notches.
> Bueonos notches so to speak. (Sorry... Couldn't stop myself.)
That's pretty much true, but sometimes they're notched, and if too deep,
or without enough of a break angle, funny things can happen to the sound.
Sometimes it's nice to start a little notch on the TAILPIECE side to
ensure proper spacing of the strings, and then let the strings and the
tension do the rest of the work (as you describe). If you use a heavy
enough string, this works fine, with a lighter string, it might not dig
in as well.
Jonathan (Cleve)
> But to be safe the genuine Gibson ABR-1 and Nashville saddles always
> sound as good as it gets. But they're pricey. I prefer the Nashville
> because it is much less likely to rattle than the ABR-1.
Does anybody know a good source to buy these things? Prices and
options seem to vary quite a bit. I'm looking for a black chrome
Gibson Nashville bridge. Sweetwater carries them at a good price, but
they're out of stock. Also, do I need to buy a particular base for
those, or are they pretty universal?
Anybody?
Joey Goldstein
You might start with this:
<http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Archtop_guitar_bridges/Tune-o-matic_Bridge_For_Archtop_Guitar.html>
If you don't like the sound of the bridge then you can swap it out later
with a real Gibson Nashville which should fit on that base.
This bridge base will probably work with a Nashville style saddle:
<http://www.allparts.com/Rosewood-Bridge-Base-p/bp-0037-0r0.htm>
This Gotoh Nashville copy (3rd one on page is black) is probably fine:
<http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_gotohgibson.htm>
But a real Gibson is a safer bet:
<http://store.gibson.com/Products/Hardware/Bridges/Nashville-Tune-o-matic-Bridge.aspx>
Black may be too hard to find. You might have to give up on that.
Also look here:
<http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_genuinegibson.htm>
The rosewood "ABR" base pictured here (lower lh corner):
<http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_abrgibson.htm>
probably does not fit a real ABR-1 but instead works with the Nashville.
I bought one of these from this guy a few years ago and although he
swore up and down that it was ABR-1 compatible, it wasn't.
Joey Goldstein
For some reason it's a lot harder to find these parts nowadays than it
used to be, especially the bases.
FWIW
If you can find them I like the bridge bases that have 2 feet and are
designed to "self-adjust" to guitar's top radius. The downward pressure
of the strings tends to flatten out the feet which only make contact
with the top on their outer edges without the pressure. Works pretty
well, and can save some sanding time.
Jonathan (Cleve)
> Jonathan (Cleve) wrote:
> > On Apr 26, 12:28 pm, Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
Wow, thank you for taking the time to find all that. I had looked at
the Gotoh, but I wasn't sure about going with the non-Gibson hardware.
Shaller makes one that's actually pricier than the Gibson.
Maybe I'll just cross my fingers and give the Gotoh a try, since you
gave it the "probably fine" endorsement. ;-)
Keith
One other thing worth mentioning.... My good friend, Greg Clayton,
gave me a great tip about using tune-o-matic bridge on a jazz guitar.
Greg told me that he uses graph-tech saddles in his ABR-1 bridges.
After he told me how much he likes them, I tried them in a couple of
my guitars and they do sound great. The graphite warms up the sound,
eliminating the metallic edge that is often associated with metal
saddles. Actually, after all this discussion, I decided to put my
graph-tech equipped ABR-1 back on my L5 again. It sounds good so far.
Although I love the sound of wood, it certainly is nice to have the
perfect intonation of a t-o-m. I'll try to stick with this for awhile.
FWIW, I am pretty sure they are available for Nashville bridges too.
Keith
paul
>
> One other thing worth mentioning.... My good friend, Greg Clayton,
> gave me a great tip about using tune-o-matic bridge on a jazz guitar.
> Greg told me that he uses graph-tech saddles in his ABR-1 bridges.
I am so confused as to what I should be looking to buy.
--paul
Jonathan (Cleve)
>
> One other thing worth mentioning.... My good friend, Greg Clayton,
> gave me a great tip about using tune-o-matic bridge on a jazz guitar.
> Greg told me that he uses graph-tech saddles in his ABR-1 bridges.
Good thought; if I don't like the sound of the standard saddles, I'll
give those a try. Thanks.
Jonathan (Cleve)
It can sure be confusing. I still feel like I'm rolling the dice
regarding whether this thing will fit my existing bridge base. I'm
liable to end up paying three different shipping charges by the time I
order the bridge, base and replacement saddles.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Joey Goldstein
Paul
You've only posted twice in this thread.
Tell us what kind of guitar you have and what you'd like to do with it?
If you want to try a T-O-M bridge on your wooden-bridge-equipped archtop
then start looking at those links that gave to the OP.
Try the Stew-Mac option first and if you don't like the sound of their
metal bridge I'm pretty sure that their wooden base will support a real
Gibson Nashville bridge. The Stew-Mac option is pretty cheap. Not too risky.
On the other hand, if you really don't know what you're doing then you
should take it to a pro and have him do it. That way you have somebody
else to blame and to whine at if you don't like the results.
If you really don't want to change the vibe from the wooden bridge you
have now but you want better intonation then you'll have to get a pro to
carve a better wooden bridge for you, after you've decided on what
strings you're always going to use on that guitar.
Or you could mess around with various other saddle materials for the
T-O-M bridges. Eg. Nylon or Graph-Tech. If you go that route, then the
Nashville style bridges are not the best candidates because their
saddles are not designed to be removed. If that's what you want to do
you'll be better off with an ABR-1 or an ABR-1 copy. Remember though
that the ABR-1 design, with its wire that is used to retain the saddles
in place, is prone to rattling.
Note: In my experience most ABR-1 copies use the wider bridge posts of
the Nashville design and will fit on most non-Gibson-made wooden bases
designed for T-O-M style bridges. It's usually only when you use a real
Gibson ABR-1 that the bridge post width becomes an issue.
If you have a real ABR-1 and its post-holes are too narrow for your
bridge base then you could always just enlarge the post holes with a
proper-sized drill bit.
Joey Goldstein
> Joey Goldstein wrote:
>> Could you please describe the correct way to notch the string slots on
>> a wooden bridge saddle Rick?
>>
>> I've always just left the saddles un-notched, figuring that the metal
>> string would eat its way into the wood with time. I've never had a
>> problem with the strings sliding around on the saddle without notches.
>> Bueonos notches so to speak. (Sorry... Couldn't stop myself.)
>
> That's pretty much true, but sometimes they're notched, and if too deep,
> or without enough of a break angle, funny things can happen to the sound.
Ah. Right.
When the notches get too deep it can affect the string's travel and tone.
> Sometimes it's nice to start a little notch on the TAILPIECE side to
> ensure proper spacing of the strings, and then let the strings and the
> tension do the rest of the work (as you describe). If you use a heavy
> enough string, this works fine, with a lighter string, it might not dig
> in as well.
>
--
Joey Goldstein
Well if you decide to go down the path of learning how to work on your
own guitars then this type of experimentation and expense is to be
expected.
In the end though I think you'll find it less expensive than taking it
to a "pro" to try these things out.
Plus, I'm a firm believer that the more you understand about how guitars
work has the potential to help you become a better player of them.
Jonathan (Cleve)
>
> Well if you decide to go down the path of learning how to work on your
> own guitars then this type of experimentation and expense is to be
> expected.
> In the end though I think you'll find it less expensive than taking it
> to a "pro" to try these things out.
> Plus, I'm a firm believer that the more you understand about how guitars
> work has the potential to help you become a better player of them.
True, true.
If I had a repair guy I had a lot of confidence in I might go that
route. But since I don't, I'd just as soon experiment for myself,
especially since nobody really knows what sound you want to hear.
Meanwhile, I appreciate all your help. Maybe one of these days I'll
ask you to talk me through a re-fret. :-)
Joey Goldstein
Well re-frets are beyond my skill-set/knowledge.
I found a kit on eBay though that's pretty decent DIY levelling kit.
Joey Goldstein
> Jonathan (Cleve) wrote:
>> On Apr 30, 3:17 pm, Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well if you decide to go down the path of learning how to work on your
>>> own guitars then this type of experimentation and expense is to be
>>> expected.
>>> In the end though I think you'll find it less expensive than taking it
>>> to a "pro" to try these things out.
>>> Plus, I'm a firm believer that the more you understand about how guitars
>>> work has the potential to help you become a better player of them.
>>
>> True, true.
>>
>> If I had a repair guy I had a lot of confidence in I might go that
>> route. But since I don't, I'd just as soon experiment for myself,
>> especially since nobody really knows what sound you want to hear.
>>
>> Meanwhile, I appreciate all your help. Maybe one of these days I'll
>> ask you to talk me through a re-fret. :-)
>
> Well re-frets are beyond my skill-set/knowledge.
> I found a kit on eBay though that's pretty decent DIY levelling kit.
>
Also saw this;
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360150380492&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT>
Should fit the Nashville posts.
paul
>
> Paul
> You've only posted twice in this thread.
> Tell us what kind of guitar you have and what you'd like to do with it?
I have a sadowsky jim hall, I love the sound of it but would like to
be able to alter the intonation. since I have a wooden bridge and, as
you mention, intonation can be spotty with those even if they are
carved perfectly, I will need to be buying a base and a bridge both,
so in theory I could order both from the same place (i.e. gibson).
however, since I do like the sound of the wooden bridge, I was
thinking maybe the graphite bridge that someone mentioned would get me
a bit closer to a wooden bridge sound, but still allow me to adjust
intonation on each string.
--paul
Joey Goldstein
I would think that if you use the strings that Sadowsky suggests you to
use on that guitar that the intonation would be pretty good.
I'll bet that he also has other wooden saddle options available for
other string sets and gauges, eg. like a set with an unwound G string.
Note: Most wooden bridge saddles for archtop guitars are made for a
wound G string.
I.e. Why not talk to him first?
Q. Are you trying to use a set of strings on that guitar with an unwound
G string? If so, don't. It won't intonate anywhere near optimal.
If you go for a metal T-O-M style bridge on top of a wooden base, the
sound will be much different than it is with your wooden saddle. This
will be true whether you use individual saddles made of nylon or of the
Graph-Tech material.
Nylon will sound a bit softer with less pronounced highs, but still way
different than the wood.
My experience with Graph-Tech saddles on my Strats was not all that.
Haven't tried them on a T-O-M yet.
If you want to go with a T-O-M bridge but want to experiment with
different saddles, then the ABR-1-style bridge will be easier to work with.
There's other things involved too. Eg. You'll need to know how to fit
the wooden base's feet to your guitar's top.
Sound like you're a bit green with this stuff. Might be best to get a
pro to do this stuff for you.
Dan Adler
Joey,
Got it and it fit perfectly on the existing base - I must have had a
non-original base.
Now, if I could just figure out the optimum pickup height I'd be
happy...
Thanks for the recommendation!
-Dan
http://danadler.com
Joey Goldstein
Well here's what I do:
If the neck pu's low E pole piece is any closer to the bottom of the low
E string than 1/8", when the string is fretted at the highest fret, it
will cause intonation problems.
So I set my low E to 1/8".
I like to roll off lots of treble on my jazz guitars via the tone
control and if both sides of the pu are at the same distance from the
strings this has the effect of making the bass strings louder than the
treble strings. So I usually raise the high E side of the pu so that its
pole piece is about 1/16" from the bottom of the high E string when
fretted at the highest fret.
I also like to be able to use my high E string for melodic accents so I
like its corresponding pole piece to be a little higher off the top of
the pu than the B string's pole piece.
With wound G strings I also raise the G pole piece a significant height
above the pu top.
Some guitars require me to do this with the D string's pole piece too
but not usually as high as the G string.
The downside of this type of setup is that if you play any music on the
same guitar where you won't be rolling off the tone control you'll find
that your treble strings are louder than the bass strings. If that's an
issue then just lower the high E side of the pu so that it's also got
1/8" to the bottom of the high E string.
paul
>
> I would think that if you use the strings that Sadowsky suggests you to
> use on that guitar that the intonation would be pretty good.
it definitely is pretty good, the problem is that I find it varies a
bit, perhaps due to seasonal factors? I sort of dream of having it
really perfect.
> I'll bet that he also has other wooden saddle options available for
> other string sets and gauges, eg. like a set with an unwound G string.
> Note: Most wooden bridge saddles for archtop guitars are made for a
> wound G string.
yeah, he actually made me a bridge for an unwound G already. I will
definitely try talking with roger, I live near his shop.
>
> There's other things involved too. Eg. You'll need to know how to fit
> the wooden base's feet to your guitar's top.
> Sound like you're a bit green with this stuff. Might be best to get a
> pro to do this stuff for you.
you're probably right, although I would like to learn more about this
kind of thing.
--paul
Joey Goldstein
> On 30 Apr, 18:41, Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>> I would think that if you use the strings that Sadowsky suggests you to
>> use on that guitar that the intonation would be pretty good.
>
> it definitely is pretty good, the problem is that I find it varies a
> bit, perhaps due to seasonal factors? I sort of dream of having it
> really perfect.
Intonation on a fretted instrument can never be "really perfect" and
will always vary due to seasonal factors.
We just try to get it as close as possible to 12 tone equal temperament
and then we adjust our touch dynamically to make our playing sound as
musical as possible.
When the seasons cause the intonation to be sub-optimal we adjust it again.
>> I'll bet that he also has other wooden saddle options available for
>> other string sets and gauges, eg. like a set with an unwound G string.
>> Note: Most wooden bridge saddles for archtop guitars are made for a
>> wound G string.
>
> yeah, he actually made me a bridge for an unwound G already. I will
> definitely try talking with roger, I live near his shop.
>
>> There's other things involved too. Eg. You'll need to know how to fit
>> the wooden base's feet to your guitar's top.
>> Sound like you're a bit green with this stuff. Might be best to get a
>> pro to do this stuff for you.
>
> you're probably right, although I would like to learn more about this
> kind of thing.
>
> --paul
TD
> In article
> <c37267b6-9c17-4855-9a46-3afc11dd9...@k36g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > On Apr 26, 6:10 am, HP <7cape...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The difference between a wood bridge and a metal bridge such as the
> > > Tune-O-Matic. Thoughts ?
>
> > The third option is a tuna matic with wood saddles.
>
> You can tune a guitar but you can't tune a fish.
For what porpoise would you ever tune a fish? I suppose there would be
quite an undercurrent of altered and hybrid scale activity involved
during the process of packaging. Personally, that may make me quite
crabby. There is also that lingering seal of approval. And we all know
that no two fishes are of equal temperment. In addition, we can't
possibly assume it's just tuna. Of course, you can always slip a
captain kid a fin to help out while you mussel through good bait. And
you may have to do it all down in Florida for the keys. No doubt some
one will enter this post for actual de-baiting, but those who don't
really know me will tell you that I write otter nonsense, anyhow. For
example, we may easily run across the odd 50's fossil recording of a
"pulled ankle" singing guppy love. It may be true, though that I don't
always tend to use starboard tact, but no harm done while on the high
seas as long as no one is trying to schuck his way through wave or
even a dolphin dance strumming on something resembling an electric eel
simply because it fits in the overhead quite well. Of course,that is
only if the plane is flying beyond the sea or you decide instead to
take a slow boat to China.
-TD
Gregg L
That was really turtleable to read.
Just krill me now.
Gregg
Bg
>
> For what porpoise would you ever tune a fish?
I thought the Scales would make that a pre-requisite:-)
Bg
Tim McNamara
<a33e9c6d-1dde-4a44...@r34g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
TD <tonyde...@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't find anything to carp about there.
Ken Rose
make a rosewood saddle for my Tokai ES-175. No problems with
intonation at all.
Ken
On Apr 27, 12:28 am, Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> With a wooden bridge saddle your guitar's intonation will be a crap
> shoot unless you have someone who knows what they're doing (and good
> luck finding someone like that) built you a compensated saddle for your
> exact instrument using one brand/gauge/type of strings.
>
> The store-bought compensated wooden saddles never quite nail the
> intonation in my experience.
>
> As for me... Tuning is too important to me and I always use a
> high-quality metal bridge saddle on my archtops.
>
> But all Tune-O-Matic replacement saddles are not created equal. Some of
> the cheaper ones just plain sound brittle and bad, especially the ones
> that come stock on most Chinese-made guitars.
> Some of the Gotoh's are OK as are some of the others from Allparts or
> WD, etc.
> But to be safe the genuine Gibson ABR-1 and Nashville saddles always
> sound as good as it gets. But they're pricey. I prefer the Nashville
> because it is much less likely to rattle than the ABR-1.
>
Gregg L
"Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-B213C7....@news-1.mpls.iphouse.net...
What's the big wahoo? I don't see nothin' to go ono and ono about.
Gregg
Roger Sadowsky
> >> I'll bet that he also has other wooden saddle options available for
> >> other string sets and gauges, eg. like a set with an unwound G string.
> >> Note: Most wooden bridge saddles for archtop guitars are made for a
> >> wound G string.
We will soon be offering custom ebony saddle options for my archtops.
I have designed two new saddles--one for a plain G and the other for a
wound G. They should be available on my e-store in a few months.
Once available, they will become standard on the archtops and each
guitar will ship with both saddles.
Roger
Bg
Good stuff Roger!
Bg