Oscar Peterson´s Guitar Player
JM
Ulf Wakenius <ulf.wa...@glocalnet.net> wrote in message
news:10096671...@s2sth1.nuaccess.net...
> Hi ! My name is Ulf Wakenius and im the guitar player with Oscar
> Peterson.Check out my website: www.aic.se/artists/wakenius
>
>
Mr.Will
but I recall him doing a solo fingerstyle spot either to close the show, or the
last from the end.
The show was great, as was Ulf's playing
Mr.Will
Jazz guitar and great photos
www.mr-will.co.uk
smoy
chops and great lines, but what was impressive was his tone which was played
on a solid body Les paul type guitar. In fact he told me that on the album
with Oscar that he was using the same solid body.
Skip
"Mr.Will" <wshe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020101094517...@mb-ci.aol.com...
Mark Guest
guitars, many strong players never use them. What are the odds that Oscar
would find two off-brand "plank guitar" players as sidemen? You can see a
clip of Lorne Lofsky playing with Oscar on an Ibanez Roadster(!) with EMG
replacement pu's here:
http://www.lornelofsky.com/home.html
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
"smoy" <sm...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:a0t736$d4...@imsp212.netvigator.com...
Thom j.
in a serious nature. I know many here {almost all} praise their arch
guitars & many discussions go from one archtop' to another but I
have been a thin body'ed guitar player for years! Seeing this video
brought up my question again.
Is the archtop that much of a difference in tone & even playability
if you have a good amp setup & several{I guess?} so called jazz
guitarist I have seen rarely use archtops at all.. Like Lorne Lofsky.
Please do not mis-understand my comment or question.. I am in
no way saying anything "negative" about archtops! I am just real
curious why they seem to be the guitar of choice.
Any & All feedback welcome!
Cordially Thom_j.
"Mark Guest" <jazzerw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a0v5iv$mv3ti$1...@ID-100641.news.dfncis.de...
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message <7lMY7.350210$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> :
>I looked at this video and I have been meaning to ask this question
>in a serious nature. I know many here {almost all} praise their arch
>guitars & many discussions go from one archtop' to another but I
>have been a thin body'ed guitar player for years! Seeing this video
>brought up my question again.
>Is the archtop that much of a difference in tone & even playability
>if you have a good amp setup & several{I guess?} so called jazz
>guitarist I have seen rarely use archtops at all.. Like Lorne Lofsky.
>Please do not mis-understand my comment or question.. I am in
>no way saying anything "negative" about archtops! I am just real
>curious why they seem to be the guitar of choice.
>Any & All feedback welcome!
>Cordially Thom_j.
Aside from the aesthetics, which is certainly a factor at least for
me, an archtop is still an acoustic instrument and there is nothing
you can do with a solidbody to replicate what that aspect of a good
archtop can bring to your sound. Many of us archtop players want to
have one degree or another of that acoustic quality blended into our
sound. The playability factor is a wash. All guitars are different
anyway, there is nothing magical about the playability of an archtop.
A good guitar is a good guitar regardless of shape or size, as far as
that goes.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
http://www.onestopjazz.com
for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
Mark Guest
wind up using solid more than archtops if I can ever get the right setup. Ed
Bickert gets amazing tone out of his tele. It's 80%fingers, I guess. Solid
bodies seem to work better for finger style, while nothing beats the sound
of a good archtop being driven hard. And archtops look so much classier than
any solid bodies, to my eye.
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
"Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7lMY7.350210$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
Thom j.
or is it more hearing it via amp & guitar? I started over 45yrs
ago learning Classical Guitar but so many years have passed
that I guess I have been behind a solid body too long? After
all these years I just like a thin body. A 335 or like this is fine
for me but the full body 'Archtops' are just too cumbersome
for my liking. & I'm a big guy with long arms + big hands!
Just a preference on my end I guess? I do love the looks of
so many archtops tho!!
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:a2573ugck71rnaq7r...@4ax.com...
Thom j.
in the way you attack your playing via picking etc? I'm a very lite
player..
"Mark Guest" <jazzerw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a104jn$nho0e$1...@ID-100641.news.dfncis.de...
Nazodesu
<thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Mark, When you say: "archtop being driven hard." Do you mean
> in the way you attack your playing via picking etc? I'm a very lite
> player..
That's sorta become my modus operandi as well in recent years. With
shifts for specific kinds of gigs, I played solid body or slim-line (ES
345) '68-80, an archtop '76-'88, then strictly nylon for about 10, for
the past 2-3 I'm back to a solid body again. And really digging it.
Thom j.
you have taken on the full array of guitars. Did you find archtops
much different in sound? Since we really do not have a true base
for accoustics within a solid body lets just say we stay guitar to
guitar amped. Again I am sincerely curious about this!
Btw: I started the classical nylon route first.
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:020120021805578170%222...@adelphia.net...
Mark Guest
> Mark, When you say: "archtop being driven hard." Do you mean
> in the way you attack your playing via picking etc? I'm a very lite
> player..
Yup. So was Lenny Breau.
Nazodesu
<thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> | That's sorta become my modus operandi as well in recent years. With
> | shifts for specific kinds of gigs, I played solid body or slim-line
> | (ES 345) '68-80, an archtop '76-'88, then strictly nylon for about
> | 10, for the past 2-3 I'm back to a solid body again. And really
> | digging it. > Ok Nazodesu, since I think we are on the same
> | wave-length but you have taken on the full array of guitars. Did
> | you find archtops much different in sound?
Hmm. Yes. The sustain is not as long, the tone is less driven, more
"airy", I guess. Additionally for many years I played pretty heavy
gauges on the archtop.
One of the things I like best about playing on the sold body now is the
ability to bend into and out of notes. And the kind of ease and
liquidity I have on vibrato. I either didn't have that with the
heavier gauge strings or just didn't have enough muscle to make it
natural.
> Since we really do not have a true base for accoustics within a solid
> body lets just say we stay guitar to guitar amped. Again I am
> sincerely curious about this! Btw: I started the classical nylon
> route first.
I'm not sure I follow you here regarding accoustics. There may be no
real "accoustic" vibration that is moving the airwaves around my guitar
and I think that really means something at a refined aural level as a
guitarist. It takes some personality out of it. But then it's not
exactly like it's a synth guitar or anything. It does have overtones,
and the sympathetic vibrations and such.
But I shlep my nylon into the front room to play during TV shows and
such and it sure does have it's own personality and much broader aural
tonal range.
Another thing I like about the solid bady is that I use a little
compression as well (not all the time, occasionally) and i can really
hear the blend in the voicings better. Incidentally it's a Brian Moore
so not only has a magnetic pickups but also the piezo in the bridge.
When I amp that it really does sound a hell of a lot like an accoustic
guitar, and it does have legitimate tonal range. But it's still true
it's not pushing in air pressure around in front of me.
Again, I love archtops for what they are, right now I'm just very into
the solidbody.
Tom Lippincott
>no way saying anything "negative" about archtops! I am just real
>curious why they seem to be the guitar of choice.
>Any & All feedback welcome!
>Cordially Thom_j.
was there a pun in there?
For the record, I've only owned one full bodied archtop in my life, a Heritage
H550, and I didn't end up keeping it. It was a great guitar, and I guess I
wish I'd kept it sometimes, but it just wasn't very practical for me. For
years I've played a strat style parts guitar as my main instrument, and the 8
string I just had built is a chambered solid body. I'm finding that after
being used to the consistent sound of the solid body for so long, even the
chambered solid body is taking some getting used to on gigs when the acoustics
of the room aren't so good. That was always one of my biggest objections to
archtops; they sound great in your living room, a recording studio, or a room
with really great acoustics (as long as the drummer is playing quietly), but in
most "real world" situations they tend to be really sensitive to any of the
adverse environmental factors that almost always exist on a gig. It was
interesting that someone mentioned solid bodies being better for fingerstyle; I
never really thought about it, but there may be something to that.
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
Thom j.
to via accoustics you also answered. What I tried asked was how
did you about the accoustic "sound" archtop verses solid body.
I didnt detail correctly but you still answered in detail later in your
reply.. Thanx!
Btw: Bending, trills, etc have been such an important part of my
playing that I can really 'relate' here! I am still trying to regiment
myself to minimize/eliminate bends for now but its hard for me!
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:020120022251336082%222...@adelphia.net...
Thom j.
& didnt want to offend any of the players that hold the archtop
in high-regard, thats all!
Now see Tom, I never knew you were a solid body player. In
the many posts you have done & playing Jazz, I just assumed
you were/are an avid archtop player! So this also tells me alot!
Thanx! Also {if I may} It seems that archtops are not used as
religiously as I thought in this newsgroup... When I first came
into the group here I assumed mostly all were archtop players
& this just proves, Never assume anything! :)
"Tom Lippincott" <tomli...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20020103033541...@mb-cn.aol.com...
Nazodesu
<thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Btw: Bending, trills, etc have been such an important part of my
> playing that I can really 'relate' here! I am still trying to regiment
> myself to minimize/eliminate bends for now but its hard for me!
I didn't mention the fluidity of trills, slides and other such nuance
that seems so pronounced on a solid body; but yes this is all part of
what I like.
Why are you tring to minimize these things? I haven't done them for
over 20 years, either because I was playing nylon where bend suck or
was playing more "official" jazz on an archtop with heavy gauge and
they sound so wimpy there.
But now that I CAN do bends again, I feel wholly liberated by it am
really getting a feel for expression I haven't had in a long time. I
know it's not a "stylistically appropriate" old-school jazz technique.
But that does leave new-school...
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message <v9NY7.350527$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> :
>Quickly Kevin, then do you feel the acousitc within the guitar
>or is it more hearing it via amp & guitar?
You know, I think I do feel it. Hard to say whether that is just my
sense of hearing corrupting my sense of touch, but it seems to me that
the response of an acoustic instrument would feel different even if
you couldn't hear it. It seems like you can feel the roundness or the
depth of the note in your fingers. It's like a thicker response.
But certainly hearing it is a big part of it (the main part)
Paul Sanwald
> Btw: Bending, trills, etc have been such an important part of my
> playing that I can really 'relate' here! I am still trying to regiment
> myself to minimize/eliminate bends for now but its hard for me!
>
why would you want to eliminate those things from your playing? one of
the wonderful things about the guitar is you can bend strings and use
vibrato and all sorts of other expressive things like that. IMHO it's
something very few jazz guitarists take advantage of.
--paul
Nazodesu
<kvan...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >Quickly Kevin, then do you feel the acousitc within the guitar
> >or is it more hearing it via amp & guitar?
>
> You know, I think I do feel it. Hard to say whether that is just my
> sense of hearing corrupting my sense of touch, but it seems to me that
> the response of an acoustic instrument would feel different even if
> you couldn't hear it. It seems like you can feel the roundness or the
> depth of the note in your fingers. It's like a thicker response.
> But certainly hearing it is a big part of it (the main part)
We're often told that we don't just hear the bass, we "feel" it. I
certainly can feel the vibrations of an archtop or nylon. I don't feel
like it's shaking or anything, but I think I can feel the motion of the
soundboard...
Bob Russell
> why would you want to eliminate those things from your playing? one of
> the wonderful things about the guitar is you can bend strings and use
> vibrato and all sorts of other expressive things like that. IMHO it's
> something very few jazz guitarists take advantage of.
Yeah. Django and George Barnes, for two early examples. It's not just for
rockers.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
Nazodesu
<bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > why would you want to eliminate those things from your playing? one of
> > the wonderful things about the guitar is you can bend strings and use
> > vibrato and all sorts of other expressive things like that. IMHO it's
> > something very few jazz guitarists take advantage of.
>
> Yeah. Django and George Barnes, for two early examples. It's not just for
> rockers.
I never heard that much bending out of Django. And when I hear a bend
out of most guitarists (Burrell or Szabo or someone) it really isn't
really a whole or half step bend, as much as it is a "bend effect" kind
of thing.
In any case I was listening to Django a few months back and heard one
of those trademark Django things where he does shuffle-picking thing
and glisses up a fifth or more. I never hear ANY one in current times
do that much. So I've been doing it for fun for a while. It's not
difficult, but it's more difficult that I had imagined to do
gracefully.
Bob Russell
> I never heard that much bending out of Django. And when I hear a bend
> out of most guitarists (Burrell or Szabo or someone) it really isn't
> really a whole or half step bend, as much as it is a "bend effect" kind
> of thing.
>
> In any case I was listening to Django a few months back and heard one
> of those trademark Django things where he does shuffle-picking thing
> and glisses up a fifth or more. I never hear ANY one in current times
> do that much. So I've been doing it for fun for a while. It's not
> difficult, but it's more difficult that I had imagined to do
> gracefully.
I guess I'll have to get out my Django CD's; I seem to remember him using
bends more often than most jazz guitarists, although certainly not as often
as, say, Eric Clapton. His glisses are definitely cool, especially the
"measured" ones where he's playing one-finger chromatic scales in 16th note
sextuplets through sheer synchronization between the two hands! Now there's
some practice time!
I agree that most traditional jazz players use bends as more of an "effect"
than a way to get from one specific pitch to another. Of course, when you
have those manly .015 sets on your guitar, you won't be doing too much
whole-step bending! I guess the traditionalist response would be "It's not
part of the vocabulary." Okay; 150 years ago "jazz" wasn't part of the
English vocabulary. Guess what? The vocabulary grew!
Adam Bravo
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A26DA.12718%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Nazodesu
Bravo <mra...@home.com> wrote:
> Barney Kessel bent quite often, especially on blues pieces.
Did he bend up a half or whole-step and then hold? Or bend up first,
strike the tone, and then lower it. Either way: where might I find
examples of this. It seems I have plenty of Kessel around here and am
not disputing that he did it, but would like to find a reference.
Bob Russell
Barney's bends (at least the ones that I recall) were of the "bluesy effect"
variety, kind of like Charlie Christian's.
Bob Russell
While I'm thinking about it, Jim Hall has been known to bend a string or
two; check out "The Answer Is Yes", from Concierto. On the bridge melody, he
even uses a (half-step) pre-bend/release or two, IIRC. You'll hear him do it
a little on "Summertime" from the duo CD with Metheny, too.
Thom j.
this has been a Huge part of my playing for 30-yrs & everytime
I slide back into this motif I feel as it's more blues/fusion genre
then jazz. Maybe I am looking at this entirely wrong and if I am
anyone please "chime" In! What I'm goaling for is good, clean
'muscial jazz tone' without all the blues' type accents and can I
ever accent in a blues/fusion way :)
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:030120020818297887%222...@adelphia.net...
Thom j.
Classical music with a Classical guitar I felt the same way!
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:di993uk1hrepcrm01...@4ax.com...
Thom j.
an inner message {if you will} to the body? I do and it is
limited with a solid body even tho I'm really a solid body
player...
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:030120021117458124%222...@adelphia.net...
Thom j.
a good 30+years {maybe even much longer} and when I
hear' a Bruno, Martino, Metheny, Jordon, Pass, Hall, On
& on & on I do not hear much of this.. Maybe I am way
offbase as holding myself back from the things I feel that
I am almost as an expert in might be wrong but if anyone
can enlighten me, I am all ears! :)
"Paul Sanwald" <pcsa...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:1503c94e.02010...@posting.google.com...
Thom j.
etc. that I do not seem to hear this so if I missing something
please anyone just re-direct me!
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A26DA.12718%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Thom j.
and I can 1/4 step at will! One thing I am! good at is all these tricks
of the trade in blues or if you want rock. I just dont hear straight'up
jazz players doing this.. Anyone,? please?
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:030120021304011636%222...@adelphia.net...
Thom j.
See Bob now you are talking about my idols of the past!
Clapton, Santana, Beck, BB, B Guy, SRV and so on!
My point is I feel the jazz player *doesnt* do the bends
etc that the above & more do! Am I making sense here?
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A3C1A.12728%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Thom j.
a fine line here from blues to straightup {if you will} jazz!
"Adam Bravo" <mra...@home.com> wrote in message
news:9n5Z7.17331$B61.6...@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...
Thom j.
another 2 then moving into a slide! I don't hear any of this in jazz!
Follow me?
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:030120021505450944%222...@adelphia.net...
Thom j.
a bit {Charlie Christian.} is some pieces but nothing like blues.
Remember! We will take 3-4 strings and bend them Unison or
even pull 2 full up and the other 2, 1/2 Up or Down to get that
soul'filled blues feel.. Follow?
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A5904.1274B%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Thom j.
Summertime! But then again all can be & I guess any can be
jazz too? So I'm contridicting myself? Also I am getting a bit
off track but after all my replies in this thread I feel I've tried
to "explain" the difference from blues or blues/fusion verses
jazz. ya know?
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A5AEF.1274E%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Adam Bravo
obviously not jazz, but every jazz musician has at least a 12 - bar blues
progression in his memory, and most will do a slower shuffle or swing blues
with blues feeling. Is that not "straight-up" enough?
"Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yF6Z7.352741$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
Bob Russell
> Bob, I would say {Or guess} if any song is a 'Blues song' is
> Summertime! But then again all can be & I guess any can be
> jazz too? So I'm contridicting myself? Also I am getting a bit
> off track but after all my replies in this thread I feel I've tried
> to "explain" the difference from blues or blues/fusion verses
> jazz. ya know?
Thom, I guess my overall answer to your question would be "Why draw lines?"
If you feel like bending a string, do it! If you don't like the sound, don't
do it! There simply isn't any rule that says "Jazz guitarists must not bend
strings". Listen to horn players; they have all sorts of ways in which they
bend, fold, spindle and mutilate pitches. Jazz singers scoop pitches and
bend notes. Why shouldn't we do it?
Thom j.
trying to say correctly? I understand all about 12-bar blues
progression or swing blues but {to me} this is not the bulk
or essence of straight'up jazz. What my premise was from
the start was getting out of the bend/slide/trill-4'note mode
whether being pentatonic or diatonic. I guess it is the best
way I can explain my dilemma?
"Adam Bravo" <mra...@home.com> wrote in message
news:xX6Z7.17432$B61.6...@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...
Thom j.
in my stupid head for no reason at all!! I see clearly what you are
saying and maybe I'll just play away and record then once I have
something 1/2-azz decent I will toss on here for eveyone to get a
big chuckle out of! :) Also then it will speak for itself!
I just become too stupidly immersed in one genre over the other
in my overly obsessed nature, I guess?
Thanx for the input Bob & everyone.. Cheers Thom_j.
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A694D.12767%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Bob Russell
> Bob, Maybe I have put all these "limitations and regimated ideas"
> in my stupid head for no reason at all!! I see clearly what you are
> saying and maybe I'll just play away and record then once I have
> something 1/2-azz decent I will toss on here for eveyone to get a
> big chuckle out of! :) Also then it will speak for itself!
Hey man, play what you like and let the people who need to call it something
figure out what to call it. :)
Adam Bravo
> You're right Adam, I still feel I'm not addressing what I am
> trying to say correctly? I understand all about 12-bar blues
> progression or swing blues but {to me} this is not the bulk
> or essence of straight'up jazz. What my premise was from
> the start was getting out of the bend/slide/trill-4'note mode
> whether being pentatonic or diatonic. I guess it is the best
> way I can explain my dilemma?
No need to for us. If you don't like it, don't do it but there are plenty of
trills and slides in modern jazz.
I can't think of one great jazz player that couldn't really play the blues.
Even Bill Evans could, and he certainly isn't known for that kind of thing.
But it sounds like you've sorted it out. Good luck.
Thom j.
"standard jazz" verses any other type jazz? I tend to follow
the bizarre at times {'i.e Kitaro etc} So I guess trying to go
back to the standards was a challenge that maybe fruitless?
I will still keep learning in this venue but I'm not going beat
myself up about it anymore.. :)
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A7B0D.1277C%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Bob Russell
> So I guess trying to go
> back to the standards was a challenge that maybe fruitless?
No way. Why not play everything you like? Or at least some of everything...
Thom j.
standard jazz motif {if there's any such animal in the first place?}
My bottom line {for me I think} is/was getting back to my roots.
Playing non-effects and non-bending/sliding/trilling standards to
give me a solid foundation of music & jazz theory again that I've
not done for several decades. This is the reason I presented my
question/comment from the beginning..
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85A9099.12790%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Nazodesu
<thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Nazodesu, Don't you also beleive the actually box sends
> an inner message {if you will} to the body? I do and it is
> limited with a solid body even tho I'm really a solid body
> player...
I agree. That's what I was saying relative to "moving air".
Tom Lippincott
>No "pun" Tom! I wanted to make sure my query was in ernest
>& didnt want to offend any of the players that hold the archtop
>in high-regard, thats all!
sorry, I was just kidding around based on your comment about "feedback"
>Now see Tom, I never knew you were a solid body player. In
>the many posts you have done & playing Jazz, I just assumed
>you were/are an avid archtop player! So this also tells me alot!
>Thanx! Also {if I may} It seems that archtops are not used as
>religiously as I thought in this newsgroup... When I first came
>into the group here I assumed mostly all were archtop players
>& this just proves, Never assume anything! :)
I think it would be safe to say that most of the regulars here are die hard
archtop guys, or at least a good number of them are. But it's true, there are
probably more solid body jazz guitar players in general than many people
realize. Like I said before, the main issue for me is consistency of sound in
less than optimal situations, although I'm also probalby less of a
traditionalist about guitar sounds and so forth than a lot of the players here.
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
Nazodesu
<thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Here is my exact point & I can bend on some strings 3-4 full notes
> and I can 1/4 step at will! One thing I am! good at is all these tricks
> of the trade in blues or if you want rock. I just dont hear straight'up
> jazz players doing this.. Anyone,? please?
"Straight up jazz" almost by definition doesn't do this--it violates
what we think of as the stylistic mannerisms of guitar.
Upstream Bob Russell mentions Hall. Quite so, I think there a number
of more blatant bends the we we've been talking about using them, 1 or
2 half steps up--and then actually *using* that note.
Alan Holdsworth, and others of his general ilk are not considered
"straight up", nor or DiMiola, Coryell. I don't think Martino does
much of this but I'm assuming many other fusion or quazi-fusion players
(Scofield for example--regardless of what his style is), Terje Rypdal
and so forth make use of this technique.
Me I use it in more or less traditional tunes and playing, despite the
fact that I clearly borrowed it from elsewhere and it sounds "in style"
to me.
Bob Russell
> I think it would be safe to say that most of the regulars here are die hard
> archtop guys, or at least a good number of them are. But it's true, there are
> probably more solid body jazz guitar players in general than many people
> realize.
A short list of well-known jazz players who have extensively used solid body
guitars:
Ted Greene, Ed Bickert, Lorne Lofsky, Wayne Krantz, Mike Stern, Bill
Frisell, Mick Goodrick, Pat Martino (Gibson L5-S in the "Joyous Lake" days;
Parker Fly and custom Rivera more recently, although his current signature
model Gibson is hollow), Robert Conti.
Even Joe Pass and Jim Hall have done stints on solid body guitars; Jim Hall
was using a Les Paul for a short time with Chico Hamilton (to be fair, he
says he grew to dislike it) and Joe Pass used a Fender Jazzmaster or Jaguar
(I forget which) on some early records. Someone gave him a 175; that seems
to have ended his solid body career.
Jimmy Bruno has reported much happiness with the Benny, which is a chambered
solid body. (Update, Jimmy?)
Thom j.
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:030120022214518548%222...@adelphia.net...
Thom j.
the other way with Earl Klugh. Of course I have hundreds who
I appreciate. I guess the final "note" {if you will, yea its a pun}
is to get up enough nerve to post my low attempt of what I do
in my way & then take it from there. Since I have not recorded
in a good 15+years now, I am really gun-shy aka chicken...lol :)
"Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:030120022258179256%222...@adelphia.net...
Thom j.
Of course I am in now way comparing myself to them
but knowing these artists 'have or do' use solid bodys
shed a different light for me. Thanx!
In regards to another thread.. If you only knew how I
Quazi-pick via fingers/pick using my tremelo bar in a
extremely unorthodox pivotal way going from bridge
to neck, always with my hand on the bar. Also using
a "Felt" pick, Yep Felt!! I could start an enitrely new
concept in picking. I guess us 'leftys' are wacky like
this? :)
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85ACB0D.127A6%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Mark Guest
I imposed the same discipline on my playing for the same reason. I'm happy
with the results and feel that I did the right thing (for me). I hardly see
any irony in the fact that I am about to start taking some lessons from Phil
deGruy, who stretches strings more than most (as well as other wild antics
on his guitharp). His streches remind me more of what I hear some sax
players do as opposed to the typical blues/rock bends.
Remember for whom you play (yourself?) and direct your practice accordingly.
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
"Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ol6Z7.352715$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
> Well Nazodesu, I wanted to stop the bends, trills, slides, etc as
> this has been a Huge part of my playing for 30-yrs & everytime
> I slide back into this motif I feel as it's more blues/fusion genre
> then jazz. Maybe I am looking at this entirely wrong and if I am
> anyone please "chime" In! What I'm goaling for is good, clean
> 'muscial jazz tone' without all the blues' type accents and can I
> ever accent in a blues/fusion way :)
>
> "Nazodesu" <222...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:030120020818297887%222...@adelphia.net...
> | In article <MOXY7.352086$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>, Thom j.
> | <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> |
> | > Btw: Bending, trills, etc have been such an important part of my
> | > playing that I can really 'relate' here! I am still trying to regiment
> | > myself to minimize/eliminate bends for now but its hard for me!
> |
> | I didn't mention the fluidity of trills, slides and other such nuance
> | that seems so pronounced on a solid body; but yes this is all part of
> | what I like.
> |
> | Why are you tring to minimize these things? I haven't done them for
> | over 20 years, either because I was playing nylon where bend suck or
> | was playing more "official" jazz on an archtop with heavy gauge and
> | they sound so wimpy there.
> |
> | But now that I CAN do bends again, I feel wholly liberated by it am
> | really getting a feel for expression I haven't had in a long time. I
> | know it's not a "stylistically appropriate" old-school jazz technique.
> | But that does leave new-school...
>
>
Paul Sanwald
bends and all that stuff, so it's very refreshing when you do hear it!
--paul
"Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<FA6Z7.352731$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>...
B.R. Moon
I am fairly new to this news group as well as to the study of jazz
guitar, although I played R&B professionally for 10 years. My player
tastes run the gammit from Mike Bloomfield, Johnny Winter, Pat Martino
and Jim Hall. My playing is the sum of all of my musical (and life)
experiences and influences to date, as is every musician's who is at
peace with his/her instrument and ability. I would agree
whole-heartedly with Bob Russell - play what's in your heart and your
head. Play it with emotion and authority, and let others judge/label
it.
Max Leggett
>> something 1/2-azz decent I will toss on here for eveyone to get a
>> big chuckle out of! :) Also then it will speak for itself!
>
>Hey man, play what you like and let the people who need to call it something
>figure out what to call it. :)
>
Therefore anything I play is good music. Someone else might not like
what I play, but what do I care? Play what you mean and mean what you
play. No one can complain about that.
Bob Russell
> That's my theory, too. By definition, the music I like is good music.
> Therefore anything I play is good music. Someone else might not like
> what I play, but what do I care? Play what you mean and mean what you
> play. No one can complain about that.
Actually, people may complain, but screw 'em.
Bob Russell
"Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom.
If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn.
They teach you there's a boundary line to music.
But, man, there's no boundary line to art."
-Charlie Parker
Thom j.
trills, slides, etc. is as easy breathing & I dont have any problems
breathing at all... :) I am still going to *try* to play more standard
mode jazz music but I am also not going to beat myself up about
it if I dont! Thanx again Thom_j.
"Mark Guest" <jazzerw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a14bp1$obm6a$1...@ID-100641.news.dfncis.de...
Thom j.
recordings {still in the works btw} online, you'll really be
refreshed!! :)
"Paul Sanwald" <pcsa...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:1503c94e.02010...@posting.google.com...
Thom j.
something others may or may not enjoy... Time will tell but
hopefully I'll have something up within the next 6months or
so? I am still learning the dos & donts of my new recorder
& as soon as I have a few songs aka dittys worth listening
to I'll post them..
"B.R. Moon" <boyd...@bcbswy.com> wrote in message
news:24456410.02010...@posting.google.com...
Steven Rosenberg
"Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<jugZ7.353737$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>...
Max Leggett
>trills, slides, etc. is as easy breathing & I dont have any problems
>breathing at all... :) I am still going to *try* to play more standard
>mode jazz music but I am also not going to beat myself up about
>it if I dont! Thanx again Thom_j.
Why not play 'standard mode' jazz complete with bends, etc? If it's
good enough for Johnny Hodges ....... I would really like to play
with a BB tone and bend technique, but using the harmonic language we
disuss here. Isn't that what you're talking about? Sounds like a very
worthwhile goal to me.
Thom j.
"Max Leggett" <mle...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:3c35ef70...@news.sprint.ca...
Thom j.
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85B6747.127DB%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Bob Russell
> I believe Herb Ellis experimented with a felt pick.
I've even messed around with that myself. Boy, I hated all that fuzz under
the strings!
Bob Russell
> You'all say this now but wait until you hear my junk.. hahaha :)
I'm looking forward to hearing your "junk", Thom. :)
Thom j.
my 'sweet' zone, to me, it sounds just like an archtop
with the 'felt pick' and this is why I also asked about
archies...
"Steven Rosenberg" <steven_h_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e8a1c6f.02010...@posting.google.com...
Thom j.
you say: "using the harmonic language" could you please
tell me more of what you mean? I think I know but I may
be mis-reading as I feel the "harmonic language" is in all
music. Certainly in any blues nature aka genre. imho
"Max Leggett" <mle...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:3c361302...@news.sprint.ca...
Thom j.
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85B8A13.1280A%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Thom j.
of a lot more "guts" with less chicken & I will! :)
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B85B8AB5.1280B%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Nazodesu
<mle...@sprint.ca> wrote:
You mention BB; for I can play the bends and stuff on blues in a jazz
environment and seems stylistically acceptable. It even sounds right on
bona fide jazz tunes that reference blues alot (Harold Arlen, for
example, and others) if the bends aren't too wide. But when it's more
straight ahead, it just sounds like I'm out of the "style" and
something drives me back in--just like it drives me to straight
eighth's and out of the more swing feel. I certainly encourage it bends
et al, and wish I did it more; this solid body is making me do that
now. But sometimes it sounds like Jimi doesn't really need to be
playing "But Not For Me"...
Mark Guest
I pretty much had to quit the blues bends cold turkey to get my brain &
fingers on track with the "standard mode" jazz. It's not been a matter of
right or wrong, more of turning over a new leaf. Besides, my blues
vocabulary *really* needed some expansion. I'll be taking some lessons from
Phil deGruy soon, who bends, twists, and wiggles all over the place. He's
even got a whammy bar on his Novax guitharp. My goal is to learn to play
jazz with less of the lounge music element that can creep into set lists.
Incorporating the techniques of other styles of music is often a worthwhile
goal. Learning how to balance the techniques is as tough a mental trick as
learning the techniques.
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
"Max Leggett" <mle...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:3c361302...@news.sprint.ca...
Thom j.
trying to explain in a good 20-30 posts! I'll highlight exactly what I
was trying to explain, aka trying to do, as you describe with: *marks*
"Mark Guest" <jazzerw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a1769d$onvh8$1...@ID-100641.news.dfncis.de...
| Hi Max,
|
| *I pretty much had to quit the blues bends cold turkey to get my brain & *
| *fingers on track with the "standard mode" jazz. It's not been a matter of
*
| *right or wrong, more of turning over a new leaf. Besides, my blues *
| *vocabulary *really* needed some expansion. *
I'll be taking some lessons from
| Phil deGruy soon, who bends, twists, and wiggles all over the place. He's
| even got a whammy bar on his Novax guitharp.
| *My goal is to learn to play *
| *jazz with less of the lounge music element that can creep into set
lists.*
| *Incorporating the techniques of other styles of music is often a
worthwhile*
| *goal. Learning how to balance the techniques is as tough a mental trick
as*
| *learning the techniques.*
Mark Guest
Glad to help.
FWIW, many attempts to impose "outside/nontraditional influences" on
traditional jazz music haven't worked very well, to my ear. A little goes a
long way. I guess that's why it has been so easy for me to drop earlier
styles of playing and try to push into the jazz idiom exclusively. A worry
that I have at the moment is that I'm not sure *what* my playing style
sounds like at the moment. My jazz pallete isn't as broad as I'd like, and
I'm not playing in other styles. What's left on the pallete? Not as much as
I'd like, but I'm working on it.
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
"Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OZHZ7.356996$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
Thom j.
many steps {if not eons} behind you as I have only reinstituted my
quest for playing "straightup" jazz {if you will} & my pallete is still
loaded with many years of rock, blues, blues/fusion and new'age.
Slowly, I'll try to refurbish my tastes with 'new venues' as yourself
& for me it may take 'a bit of time' but for now all I have is time! I
sadly have the 'luxory' of being here 24/7 & when I am feeling fine
I really get into my music & I love it!! :) Also it has done wonders
for me and all on this newsgroup have too! Thanx Guyz!
Cheers Thom_j.
"Mark Guest" <jazzerw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a1c99s$o5h2m$1...@ID-100641.news.dfncis.de...
Mark Guest
Best,
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
"Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pmq_7.362385$5A3.13...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
Thom j.
"Mark Guest" <jazzerw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a1eu6g$q8gj6$1...@ID-100641.news.dfncis.de...
Bob Russell
> I do my best when I am feeling human.. :)
Feeling human? What's that like? :)
Max Leggett
>> I do my best when I am feeling human.. :)
>
>Feeling human? What's that like? :)
>-- Bob Russell
That's when you take the antidote. You _do_ have the anitidote,don't
you?
Bob Russell
There's an antidote?
Thom j.
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B86085A5.12B8E%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Thom j.
"Max Leggett" <mle...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:3c3b30af...@news.sprint.ca...
Mark Guest
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B86085A5.12B8E%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Thom j.
"Mark Guest" <jazzerw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a1fsb9$p6j62$1...@ID-100641.news.dfncis.de...