Tube amps for jazz
federico
low-watt tube amp--an AB or A power section? I'm not sure I understand
the effect each has on tone and compression. Any brand-name
suggestions (in the cheaper-er range--boutiques are out of my league!)?
Claus Rogge
Without being an expert at all ... one of my pupils bought himself a
Fender Blues Junior recently and I envy him already.
--
http://cdbaby.com/cd/rogge
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/
viewAlbum?playListId=193467678
Joey Goldstein
For jazz, especially chord-melody style playing, you'll want as many
watts as you can get.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Keith Freeman
> low-watt tube amp--an AB or A power section?
melody playing (as opposed to single note soloing with a rhythm section).
The main reason for choosing a class A tube amp is to get more warmth, but
at a certain volume you starting getting distortion, and that volume is
reached sooner when playing chords. Now tube distortion is the pretty kind,
and distorted chords can sound great, a la early John McLaughlin, but
that's not what most people want when playing chord melody.
-Keith
Clips, Portable Changes, tips etc.: www.keithfreemantrio.nl
e-mail: keithfreemantrio DOT nl
gant...@comcast.net
true. However, if solo guitar is your primary purpose then I don't
think you're going to be playing very loud. I've used my '74 Deluxe
Reverb (22 Watts class A/B w/ 2 6V6's) on solo gigs and it's been
perfect. I also have a Bruno Underground 30 that's rated at 30 Watts,
class A w/ 4 EL-84's. It would be major over-kill for most solo
guitar gigs I've done. Which is not to say I haven't used it on solo
gigs, but I barely had it turned up. There are quite a few factory
made tube amps in that power range. I find that I need more Watts
with solid state amps. My AER Compact 60 runs out of gas on gigs for
which my Deluxe Reverb would be plenty loud enough. I suspect it's
due in part to the AER's limiter but still - I think you need about
twice as many solid state Watts as tube Watts. For some reason tube
Watts just seem bigger (also better sounding!) to me.
Gantt
Keith Freeman
> twice as many solid state Watts as tube Watts.
are generally more efficient than smaller ones.
Every amp, valve or SS, has its sweet spot in a certain volume range, so
it's really a question of trying some out at the kind of volume you need.
federico
better sound for chord melody?
sheets
> > If I am playing chord solo jazz standards, which would be a better,
> > low-watt tube amp--an AB or A power section?
>
> I wonder if you wouldn't be better off with something like an AER for chord
> melody playing (as opposed to single note soloing with a rhythm section).
> The main reason for choosing a class A tube amp is to get more warmth, but
> at a certain volume you starting getting distortion, and that volume is
> reached sooner when playing chords. Now tube distortion is the pretty kind,
> and distorted chords can sound great, a la early John McLaughlin, but
> that's not what most people want when playing chord melody.
Unless you're Jon Kreisberg, Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Rodney
Jones, Kevin Eubanks, Russell Malone, Henry Johnson, etc...
RickH®
> Good info, here! Any opinions on the output tube? Which gives the
> better sound for chord melody?
I second any 6v6 non-modelling amp in the 20 watt range with a more
efficient speaker of 98db/watt or better. The EL84's in my vox amps
have a less jazzy tone compared to my fender/ampeg-like 6v6 amps.
Every 3db of efficiency you can add to the speaker means half the
amount of wattage is needed to get the same volume. SPL is measured
in db per one watt (I believe at 1000hz). So in reality the
difference between a 97db rated speaker and a 100db rated speaker is
greater than the numbers seem to be (sorry for the run on sentence).
Tim McNamara
<148e0bf9-f35e-4a4c...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
sheets <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Heck, I even heard some today on the "Moonlight in Vermont" record
today, although I can't offhand recall which tune.
Keith Freeman
>> that's not what most people want when playing chord melody.
>
> Unless you're Jon Kreisberg, Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Rodney
> Jones, Kevin Eubanks, Russell Malone, Henry Johnson, etc...
I'm talking about McL's distortion sound on Extrapolation, Turn It Over
(Lifetime). I don't think any of the guys you mention took it that far!
crip...@aol.com
Check out a used Fender Super 60 Combo. They're 60 w, 112 with a
great clean sound. It's a line from the late 80's early 90's that is
now dc'ed. One drawback; very heavy.
It has been my main amp for 20 years.
Marc Why
> Good info, here! Any opinions on the output tube? Which gives the
> better sound for chord melody?
My Frenzel has two 6L6's, which are nice. I have another with EL34's,
which is a very different sound, but still nice. Kinda depends on the
sound you're looking for, too. BTW, the Frenzels are boutique that
won't break your bank!
Have fun,
Marc
www.marcwhygroup.com
www.myspace.com/marcwhygroup
oasysco
> Good info, here! Any opinions on the output tube? Which gives the
> better sound for chord melody?
Before I begin, let me say that if I was going to try one amp out at a
store, it'd be Ampeg's new J20 Jet. That said, here's the way I feel
about buying an amp...
Amp tone is so subjective to begin with not even considering jazz tone
and then within that chord-melody jazz tone.
I agree with Keith... EL84 power tubes are usually found in amps with
a brighter tone (but not always). 6V6's are lower power and are
typically found in amps that play clean at lower volume like Fender's
Princeton Reverb, Champ, and others. 6L6 are higher-powered tubes and
are found in many 40W and above amps. Fender's 100W Tiwn Reverb uses
4-6L6's for example. But there are other power tubes like EL-34 that
are found in Marshall amps.
I don't think choosing a power tube is a good way to choose an amp
since other factors really have more of an impact on the tone of the
amp with the circuit design being first and foremost and then the
speaker and the guitar being used and the type of music being played
and finally you, the player.
One of the best amps I ever had for meaty, rich, and round clean tone
was a '79 Fender Pro Reverb - 70W. Unfortunately, that amp weighed in
at 80lbs and had WAY more volume than was needed - even for live play
with a full rock cover band. Still, I regret selling that amp to this
day even though I would have never used it again except at home.
One of the worst amps for meaty, rich, round clean tone was a 15W
Goldtone GA15RV even though it looked cool and was ultra portable and
loud.
My point is that if you judge amps by factors like size, power tubes,
portability and not by tone and how you like the sound of the amp for
what you use it for, you will likely be disappointed with your choice
or end up with an amp known for having issues with quality or
something like that.
As to speaker size... larger speakers typically sound larger, while
smaller speakers typically sound sweeter. That's why you'll find lots
of bass players pushing 2x10" or 4x10" speaker cabs instead of 15"
speaker cabs. I love 10" speakers espcially in a 2x10 configuration -
much more so than a 1x12 cabinet. But I don't like speakers less than
10". I like a singe 1x12 more than a 1x15. 2x12 is good, but I like
2x10 better. But this is all subjective as not only does the speaker
size matter for tone, but the cabinet as well as the brand and model
of the speaker since they are voiced for different types of music on
purpose by the manufacturer.
My suggestion: take your time; tell yourself you have months to get
this amp and visit every music store you can and try them out for
yourself. Make sure that wherever you buy you can return it because it
will likely sound different at the music store than on a gig or at
home.
Good luck on your hunt. I, too, have been hunting down a tube amp over
the last months. Been doing my homework with research on Google,
FenderForum.com, these NG's, Harmony-central.com user reviews, MF
reviews.
I was close to thinking about a crate VC3112T (with Tone tubby
speaker), but there are so many quality issues with that amp and the
fact that of the 3 or 4 Crates I've owned in the past, only one worked
like it was supposed to. I saw Ampeg's new Jet J20 online - hand-wired
PTP for about $700. I bet that amp would have great jazz tone, but for
$50 more I can own an early 70's Fender Pro Reverb in perfect shape.
I'm *this* close to picking up that Pro reverb on the way home tonight
having stopped by a music store last night to check it out.
Buying the Pro Reverb will bring me full circle since I'll be buying
it from the same guy who sold me my first jazz guitar back in the
70's - a brand spankin' new blonde Hagstrom Jimmy (D'Aquisto)
archtop.
Greg
oasysco
+1 on that amp - very nice clean sounds without that characteristic
Fender brightness. Heavy, but those amps are good for most any kind of
music or size gig.
Greg
Keith Freeman
> since other factors really have more of an impact on the tone of the
> amp with the circuit design being first and foremost and then the
> speaker and the guitar being used and the type of music being played
> and finally you, the player.
This cannot be emphasized enough! Two amps that look similar on paper can
sound totally different. There's also the issue of open/closed-back
cabinet. Open back gives you the traditional electric guitar sound with
extra mids (e.g. Kenny Burrell), whereas closed will get you closer to an
acoustic sound (Martin Taylor).
-Keith
Clips, Portable Changes, tips etc.: www.keithfreemantrio.nl
e-mail: info AT keithfreemantrio DOT nl
pmfan57
My Fender Concert from the 80's sounds great, but weighs a ton. It is
glued to the floor for all intents and purposes. Since I don't gig
anymore it doesn't matter, as long as the direct out can reach my
computer.
RickH®
Somewhere I heard that Leo Fender thought that was his favorite
circuit. I've been looking for another tube amp too and was thinking
of one of the Super circuit based Fenders or a Super-based clone. For
a very small practice amp I'm still liking my Champion 600 a lot, only
5 watts but nice timbre and I've used it daily for over 2 months with
no issues. I'd like to also find an old Baldwin solid state (analog)
amp the 2x12 one, sometimes those come up on ebay and they have a
great jazz tone too. They were made in late 60's early 70's I think,
(the one with the multi colored buttons on top) sadly my guitar
teacher refuses to sell me his old Baldwin SS amp. I think I'm done
with digital amps at least until someone can make something without so
much compression, ping, fizz and unnatural responsiveness, digital
just wears on me after some initial liking. But I am open to discrete
analog solid state (with discreet bi polar or mosfet transistors, IOW
no IC power modules or older IC op amps) discreet bipolar or mosfet
sounds more tube like in analog SS. I do believe that the speaker and
enclosure has more to do with anything though, even moreso than the
circuit. Except when you introduce something digital in the path then
the speaker ceases to be a part of the instrument you can control
while playing, IOW I feel like there is something "in the way" between
my strings, pick and the speaker.
Alex
I'll sell you my 1978 Polytone MiniBrute II if you are interested.
Email me offline.
ho...@jhu.edu
affecting tube amp tone and suitability for jazz. Excellent examples
for jazz can be found for any type power tube (or A vs. AB). Your best
bet is to try out the amp or get recommendations of good models from
others.
For amps based upon the same power tubes (i.e., 2 6V6's) a Class AB
can be designed to produce more clean power than Class A. Of course
preamp design could change this relationship: a Class AB amp could
have a preamp designed to overdrive early. Also, many guitar amps
advertised as Class A are not really entirely Class A; they go AB at
moderate to high volume. This includes the popular 2xEL84 (at 15
watts) and 4xEL84 (at 30 watts) types of amps. EL84s can produce a
max Class A output of ~5 Watts each. Regardless, these amps can sound
good or bad for jazz...no relation to class.
One cheap and light amp that I have been satisfied with is a Laney
LC30 (a 4xEL84 - 30 watt "Class A" amp). A clean tone that is nice
and loud if needed (after replacing the original Laney speaker).
Andy
federico
This thread has been a wealth of information--it could serve as a
primer for tube-amp technology!
Here's what I've gleaned that I will immediately apply to my search:
I need a 6V6-based amp built around the Fender-type circuit.
An efficient closed-back cab will probably be my best bet with that.
A/AB is more subjective than not, based on volume needed.
I'm going to have to deal with some weight. Tubes equal transformers
equal heft.
And...I've gotta go spend some quality time in the shops trying 'em
out--oooh, tough assignment!
Thanks, everyone!
--Dennis
gant...@comcast.net
It has been suggested that you should try amps without regard for tube
type, class A or A/B, speaker config, cabinet design, etc. and hear
what you like and don't like. Then, once you've found a couple of
amps that you like, figure out which one(s) you can actually afford.
Then, ask the store if you can buy whatever your first choice is and,
assuming you've kept all the packing and literature and kept the amp
in showroom condition, take it on a gig and see how it does in a real-
life situation. Not all stores will do this but I've found that many
will. I've liked many amps in the store only to get them on the gig
and hate them.
Some thoughts about tubes, class and speaker cabinets: I've always
thought that 6V6 and 6L6 based amps were "it" for clean jazz sound.
On the other hand, I have a friend (Chuck Underwood - an incredibly
talented and versatile DC area guy) who swore by EL84s. Got a great
sound too. Go figure. Class A or A/B? You need to try them to see
which you prefer. Class A can be incredibly sweet sounding. The big
advantage is the lack of cross-over distortion, which is inherent in A/
B designs (although a well biased amp should have a minimum of it).
My Underground 30 is class A w/ 4 EL84's and I can get a great clean
jazz sound out of it. Regarding speaker cab designs: I have had (and
still do) a few great sounding closed back cabinets. These days I
much prefer open back boxes. My favorite cabinet these days is a
Mojotone 2-12 built like old Fender combos - 3/4" pine sides, lock
jointed corners, 3/8" plywood baffle held in by 4 screws. Gets a huge
resonant sound that can be heard anywhere on stage, Closed back
cabinets mostly only get heard by the people right in front of them
unless you point 'em backwards or sideways (which I've done!).
So here's what I suggest - Try lots of amps! Go to stores and try
everything they have. Try your friend's amps. Listen to your
favorite players and find out what they use. Good luck!
Gantt
Keith Freeman
> everything they have. Try your friend's amps. Listen to your
> favorite players and find out what they use.
And don't neglect SS acoustic amps like the AER. Although it's designed for
acoustic guitar, it has a nice warm sound. I heard Joe Cohn playing one
live the other day with a piano trio and it sounded good for single note
soloing too.
gant...@comcast.net
cheap SS amp is the Crate Limo battery powered amp. Both the AER and
the Crate lean towards being high-fidelity full range systems.
Gantt
Keith Freeman
> An efficient closed-back cab will probably be my best bet with that.
You've already selected a very unusual - possibly non-existent -
combination unless you want to go for a separate head and cab! Most if not
all closed-back combos are SS acoustic amps.
Maj6th
heat factor. I am now building a tube amplifier that is sealed off from the
speaker within the cabinet. The tube section will be vented but the speaker
will be completely enclosed. It doesn't mean my understanding is correct.
Maj6th
"Keith Freeman" <smtp.cablewanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns9A21C2412E11Ak...@194.134.69.69...
Joey Goldstein
But people have been using tube heads with closed-back cabs for quite
some time now.
Another reason to use open-back cabs is because they sound good.
Another reason is because they make it easier for your band-mates to
hear what you're playing.
Closed-back cabs can tend to get muddy on the bottom end, a bit harsh on
the top end, and they make it hard for other people on stage to hear you.
Sometimes that thump on the bottom is great though.
federico
--Dennis
Chickenhead
.
"oasysco" <wilder...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:938594cc-4c2c-497d...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
PascalD
> > If I am playing chord solo jazz standards, which would be a better,
> > low-watt tube amp--an AB or A power section?
>
> melody playing (as opposed to single note soloing with a rhythm section).
> The main reason for choosing a class A tube amp is to get more warmth, but
> at a certain volume you starting getting distortion, and that volume is
> reached sooner when playing chords. Now tube distortion is the pretty kind,
> that's not what most people want when playing chord melody.
>
I tried the AER Compact 60 with my Ibanez AF105F 2 days ago. The sound
was OK. What bothered me was that the tone control (bass, middle,
treble) were not very affective with the jazz box. I can imagine it is
very effective with a flattop acoutic guitar with a piezo under the
bridge, but for the jazz box, I did not have enough control on the
tone. I switched to a all valve boutique amp (Marble, hand made in NL)
and the difference was huge! The warmth , definition, clean and
control were there. The only problem is the price, it is more than
twice the AER ... I'll have to wait, I guess.
Pascal
oasysco
> If I am playing chord solo jazz standards, which would be a better,
> the effect each has on tone and compression. Any brand-name
> suggestions (in the cheaper-er range--boutiques are out of my league!)?
Federico,
I know I'm late to this discussion to bring it up, but I picked up a
1975'ish Fender Pro Reverb last week. 45W, 2x12, 55lbs on casters. All
tube everything including the rectifier.
I played my ES-175 thru it last night (at home - I don't gig) for the
first time and was blown away by how clear and distinct every note
sounded. Like you (maybe not experience-wise), I am working on chord
melodies. I've got 5 down now and up until last night, I planned to
use my SS Fender Princeton Chorus to play out pone day (did it already
with rock covers, but never with jazz).
After plugging the 175 into the Pro Reverb, the SS amp is taking a
back seat. I cou;dn't believe the difference because that SS Princeton
Chorus has been one of my all time favorite lower volume jazz tone
amps.
These amps are all hand-wired, p-t-p, all tube like the expensive
boutique amps of today, but are available for $700-800.
As an aside, I have owned several of these amps over the years, but
that was at the time I was playing in a rock cover band so I never
used them for jazz. I kept them in the garage for eacy load-in/out on
the way to gigs and kept my SS amps for ehat little jazz I fooled with
up in my practice room.
Greg
RickH®
55 lbs aint all that bad really, I thought they would be more. Thats
like one salt bag for my well-water softener. Considering my dad
would manually shovel a foot of snow off the driveway, then chop wood
for an hour in zero temperature (all before breakfast) at the ripe age
of 72, I shouldn't complain about a 55lb amp at my age.
Have you tried the Ampeg J20?
pmfan57
>
> - Show quoted text -
People were much stronger in those days.
RickH®
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes they were, not to mention the Okinawa landing, which he never
liked to talk about.
oasysco
No, I didn't but I sure would like to. They want $700 for the J20 and
I got the Pro reverb for $750. If that J20 was more like $500 or Pro
Reverbs went for a grand, I'd have at least gotten a J20 to try for 30
days.
Greg
Jeanmi
> I don't think choosing a power tube is a good way to choose an amp
> since other factors really have more of an impact on the tone of the
> amp with the circuit design being first and foremost and then the
> speaker and the guitar being used and the type of music being played
> and finally you, the player.
Quite the contrary here: I think that when looking for a clean tone,
the type of power tubes are a key element. For jazz 6L6's rule: the
twin reverb, the pro reveb, the vibrolux, the vibroking: all great
clean tone amps. Even a hot rod deluxe is great with an adequate
speaker.
For lower wattage, 6V6's are much better to my ears than EL84's.
Once you get some volume going on (that magic spot when the amps just
start breathing because you're using the power tubes), the character
of which tube the amp is using is becoming really obvious.
jeanmi
oasysco
> > I don't think choosing a power tube is a good way to choose an amp
> > since other factors really have more of an impact on the tone of the
> > amp with the circuit design being first and foremost and then the
> > speaker and the guitar being used and the type of music being played
> > and finally you, the player.
>
> Quite the contrary here: I think that when looking for a clean tone,
> the type of power tubes are a key element. For jazz 6L6's rule: the
> twin reverb, the pro reveb, the vibrolux, the vibroking: all great
> clean tone amps. Even a hot rod deluxe is great with an adequate
> speaker.
In this case, I agree osmewhat that 6L6 tubes usually mean lots of
clean power, but I still wouldn't choose an amp based solely on that
tube. For ex, while I really like Twin reverbs, I'm not extremely fond
of Fedner's Hot Rod Deluxe (6L6), but I also like the Deluxe Reverb
(6V6).
Greg
federico
> I know I'm late to this discussion to bring it up, but I picked up a
> 1975'ish Fender Pro Reverb last week. 45W, 2x12, 55lbs on casters. All
> tube everything including the rectifier.
>
> I played my ES-175 thru it last night (at home - I don't gig) for the
> first time and was blown away by how clear and distinct every note
> sounded. Like you (maybe not experience-wise), I am working on chord
> melodies. I've got 5 down now and up until last night, I planned to
> use my SS Fender Princeton Chorus to play out pone day (did it already
> with rock covers, but never with jazz).
>
> After plugging the 175 into the Pro Reverb, the SS amp is taking a
> back seat. I cou;dn't believe the difference because that SS Princeton
> Chorus has been one of my all time favorite lower volume jazz tone
> amps.
>
I bet that Pro is sweet! When a Fender is right, it is just right!
I hesitate to confess this because it dates me, but back in the early
70s, I found a "closet queen" Fender TwinAmp (Cream tolex, brown
grill) with a serial number comprised of some zeros and "263." It was
stone mint! Looked like it had simply never been used. Only the
speakers had been changed to gray JBL-D120s. I seem to remember that
some research at the time dated the amp in the last quarter of '59,
which must make it one of the first 4-6L6 TwinAmps.
What happened was this: that amp could do no wrong for me. I was
mostly playing R&B and jazz at the time, and it didn't seem to matter
what guitar I was using, or that I was probably rather mediocre--that
amp translated everything into the perfect tone to my ears! I sold
that amp to finish college; now I wish I'd just quit school! Nothing
since has satisfied as much--nothing. After years of trudging through
sterile, but portable, SS amps, I've put myself on the quest for
something approaching that sound. Anything approximating that amp's
year and condition costs more than I'm worth! So I ask here, and
continue to research.
The idea of a Pro for around $700 appeals, because 45W is probably
more than I need, and the 6L6s were the magic for me once. But the
weight! Dunno if I have the back for that anymore! But...the good with
the bad, I guess!
Thanks again, all for the guidance here.
--Dennis
Jeanmi
amps of the late 50's & early 60's and are reasonably priced. Look in
particular at these 2:
MODEL 50212 http://www.victoriaamp.com/visitor/show_model/9
Victorilux http://www.victoriaamp.com/visitor/show_model/12
They're among the best amps I've ever tried: gorgeous clean yet warm
tone immediately when you plug in (wherever the knobs are). period.
Jeanmi
oasysco
You're right - that does date you, but it also means you've been
playing guitar nearly forever :)-
My Pro Reverb is nice. Has Jensen C12 replacements speaks for a few
years ago. It's a little noisy with the volume cranked on the bright
channel, but hey it's a tube amp when volume was more important than
studio-quiet operation.
Your old Twin sounds like magic. I know Fender released a '57 Twin
that's hand-wired with special speaks from a Weber/Eminence joint
effort. It's expensive at $2400, but it's only 2-6L6's (like my Pro
Reverb).
Greg
federico
> You're right - that does date you, but it also means you've been
> playing guitar nearly forever :)-
Thanks for the silver lining, Greg ;-)
I know Fender released a '57 Twin
> that's hand-wired with special speaks from a Weber/Eminence joint
> effort. It's expensive at $2400, but it's only 2-6L6's (like my Pro
> Reverb).
>
Man, that sounds like all of it and everything else! Gotta go now an
sell stuff!
Chickenhead
characteristics, but I've heard enough amps whose sound belied what I would
have expected from the type of power tube. It's a good general rule, but it
has exceptions.
> For jazz 6L6's rule: the
> twin reverb, the pro reveb, the vibrolux, the vibroking: all great
> clean tone amps. Even a hot rod deluxe is great with an adequate
> speaker.
Not only are they 6L6, but they are Fender designs with Fender tone stacks,
plate voltage, gain structure, etc.
"Jeanmi" <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:88ce5ced-935d-48a4...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
oasysco
<kuNOrtshapiroSPAM@NOSPAMhotTHANKSmail dawt cawm> wrote:
> The word "usually" is key. Different tube sets and types have their
> characteristics, but I've heard enough amps whose sound belied what I would
> have expected from the type of power tube. It's a good general rule, but it
> has exceptions.
>
> > For jazz 6L6's rule: the
> > twin reverb, the pro reveb, the vibrolux, the vibroking: all great
> > clean tone amps. Even a hot rod deluxe is great with an adequate
> > speaker.
>
> Not only are they 6L6, but they are Fender designs with Fender tone stacks,
> plate voltage, gain structure, etc.
Agreed!
Greg
>
> "Jeanmi" <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:88ce5ced-935d-48a4...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> I don't think choosing a power tube is a good way to choose an amp
> >> since other factors really have more of an impact on the tone of the
> >> amp with the circuit design being first and foremost and then the
> >> speaker and the guitar being used and the type of music being played
> >> and finally you, the player.
>
> > Quite the contrary here: I think that when looking for a clean tone,
> > the type of power tubes are a key element. For jazz 6L6's rule: the
> > twin reverb, the pro reveb, the vibrolux, the vibroking: all great
> > clean tone amps. Even a hot rod deluxe is great with an adequate
> > speaker.
>
> > For lower wattage, 6V6's are much better to my ears than EL84's.
>
> > Once you get some volume going on (that magic spot when the amps just
> > start breathing because you're using the power tubes), the character
> > of which tube the amp is using is becoming really obvious.
>
> > jeanmi- Hide quoted text -
Jeanmi
that great fender clean tone from a peavy classic 30 or a fender blues
jr: although they have the classic fender tone stack and gain
structure, those EL84 won't get you there.
pmfan57
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's still partly in the fingers (and the volume) and I get the same
sound from my Peavey as from my Fender Concert.
Elektrik Hendrik
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
Agreed! For my usual rock/pop/coverband gigs nothing beats a good EL84
equipped amp, like my Mesa Studio22+ and my Vox AC30.
But for jazz they don't cut it. The above mentioned
Fender models (with the exception of the Hotrod Deluxe) are unbeatable
for that (if you insist on tube amps).