Fingerstyle question (Richard Bornman)
j...@jackzucker.com
You and Lippincott have inspired me to learn to play fingerstyle.
Using bare fingers (no nails), I have been practicing playing with
p-i-p-m the last couple months. This is going pretty well but one thing
that keeps happening is as the skin frays slightly on my fingers from
the strings, it generates friction which makes it hard to play fast.
I've tried putting a little oil on my fingers and that helps but it may
be prolonging the problem.
Any suggestions?
Jaz
juru...@aol.com
p-i-p-m the last couple months. This is going pretty well but one thing
that keeps happening is as the skin frays slightly on my fingers from
the strings, it generates friction which makes it hard to play fast.
I've tried putting a little oil on my fingers and that helps but it may
be prolonging the problem.
You're at the tip of the iceberg that sunk the boat for me with a
nailless hand. I could never keep a consistent fingertip - callusses
would shift or grow too large, get sticky and just generally be
unmanageable. I went back to nails and boosted them up with acrylics,
but short of that, there may be another thing, but I don't know if it
would work.
If you play between your thumb and second finger, the movement and
angle is a little different. That may help reduce the fraying or
shifting of the surface or make friction more manageable some other
way.
It seemed to help with me, but my hand isn't necessarily much like
yours - probably isn't in fact.
For a couple of years, it seemed to me I could resolve it, but I never
did. This may not be a problem with you - my right hand's always a
couple of grades behind and spends a lot of time in the principal's
office.
Clif
j...@jackzucker.com
another board suggested using crazy-glue on the fingertips. Have you
ever tried that? He also suggested that after time, the callouses would
get rock hard like an upright bassist's do...
I wonder how Eubanks does it?
juru...@aol.com
Me too, but no got. Maybe Richard can tell you - he tried to help me,
but it was hopeless.
Someone on
another board suggested using crazy-glue on the fingertips. Have you
ever tried that
No, but I've heard of it. One of my students told me he uses a skin
toughener on fingertips before gigging - something you can get in the
HBA at a drug store or supermarket. He's done the crazy glue too - they
use it for medical suturing now, so it's not likely to hurt you.
Also, my English efriend Richard sent me some Araldite, which he swears
by but haven't tried yet - its an epoxy. He mixes it in a bottle cap
and puts it on with a popsicle stick and he's got guitar pick nails.
He's a grade 8 LCM classical player/teacher and plays jazz and rock as
well, electric and nylon so araldite gets the acid test. He swears by
it.
The acrylic I have is cool because you can extend a broken nail and
it'll hold up.
What I found with the nailless hand was that I had to put considerably
more energy into a stroke to get the same volume, and that was
eventually messing with my right shoulder.
The acrylic nails don't take any effort, but now I'm trying to get
lh-rh back in complete sync with the new dimensions on the right hand.
Your regular pick right hand attack is a lot like Richard's nailless,
so it might follow that what works for him would work for you.
I have a really wide palm and short fingers, and if you have a narrower
palm and lnoger fingers, we may be talking apples and oranges. I don't
know enough to know.
I wonder how Eubanks does it?
Beats me. I watched Jeff Beck recently too, and I don't think he's got
any nails either.
I found that the nailless right hand made me work a lot more on pitch
of the wrist, extension of the fingers, bend of the wrist, amount of
forearm or shoulder pressure, it just got about a hundred times harder
to manage than fingernails, and it seemed that after I resolved one
problem, I'd get another couple more. I know it can't be that bad for
everybody. Part of it may be I'm left-handed, but that doesn't stop
Tom or a lot of other great right hand pickers.
Have you ruled out hybrid? I don't know if it fits in with your pick
style, but I did that before going fingerstyle and if I'd had your
articulation with a pick, I'd probably never have stopped doing it.
Clif
Steven Rosenberg
Jack, my classical background is rearing its head -- why don't you work
on i-m and m-a (mostly i-m)? That's a lot more efficient than p-i or
p-m for single-line runs. And are you doing rest strokes (finger plucks
a string and comes to rest on the next string) or free strokes (finger
moves away from the strings after plucking)? You get different tone and
volume from each stroke. Also, wrist angle is important: it's good to
play in front of a mirror to check your technique. I always used to
look at Vladimir Bobri's book, "The Segovia Technique," to check
myself.
While most classical players use nails, mine are so thin that it's hard
to keep them in shape, so I also use bare fingers. The steel strings
are very hard on both fingers and nails. Not so much with the nylon
strings.
Have you seen Gene Bertoncini playing fingerstyle in a group? On the
Buscarino Players DVD, I am amazed at how much he does with his
fingers, both comping and single lines, in situations where even most
fingerstyle players turn to a pick.
j...@jackzucker.com
velocity. Richard Bornman's playing (he uses p-i-p-m-p-a-p-m etc) is so
smooth and effortless. I'm not ready to add the "a' finger but it's
working pretty well with p-i-p-m and I can already play 2x faster than
i-m already.
To Clif, I've played hybrid (pick/fingers) for 20 years but certain
pieces were just too difficult for me to get the dexterity with my
little finger ("c" finger). Even though Gatton did it, I just can't
seem to get it to work.
I'm not sure I want to mess with the acrylic nails even though that's
probably the best solution. I would just like to be able to pick up a
guitar and play without having to worry about filing anything or having
a decent pick in my pocket...
joemont...@hotmail.com
use the back of my nail on (i) with (p) pretending to 'hold it' - why?
I was addicted to tortoise shell picks and once my stockpile ran out no
other picks sounded good to me anymore...so fingers it was...the
'liquid skin' or whatever that stuff is called is essentially crazy
glue and I've used it when I've cut one of my fingertips but never to
coat them for the purpose of using that as a callus substitute...
I originally used flesh against roundwounds only, thinking I could
build them up faster (the calluses, that is) - eventually I lowered the
gauge (from .14 to .13) and the type of string (went to flats) - it
took time.
I think the only reason it worked for me was that I gave myself no
choice but to make things work and execute playing without a pick...if
I couldn't play something fast enough then I just didn't play it - as
time went on, I plodded ahead and woke up one day and realized that I
was actually getting faster without trying to get fast, does that make
sense?
Maybe switching back and forth from plectrum playing to fingers
confuses muscle memory?
Anyone know?
JM
Greger Hoel
>Also, my English efriend Richard sent me some Araldite, which he swears
>by but haven't tried yet - its an epoxy. He mixes it in a bottle cap
>and puts it on with a popsicle stick and he's got guitar pick nails.
\ö/
Finally a brand name I can recognize! I'm definitely gonna try that.
Thanks for the pointer, Clif.
> I watched Jeff Beck recently too, and I don't think he's got
>any nails either.
I read an interview with him a while ago, where he stated that he kept
his nails long enough to be flush with the pad of his fingertips.
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Judy
<j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:1106940760....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I haven't really run into that problem as unbeatable and I play with my
bare skin on roundwounds and flatwound and nylon. The imperfections really
show up in the sound on the classical so I'm glad it's not happening except
rarely. Maybe you're playing a little too hard. Try to keep the fingers
relaxed so they bounce over the strings effortlessly. You may want to take
a nail file to rough edges of skin. I don't shower or wash hands for about a
half hour or more before I play, it softens the skin and sets it up to tear.
Are your fingertips dry or chapped? You may want to use lotion or something
after you play but not before and flatwounds are easier on the fingers.
dj
Sotos
<juru...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1106940011.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Damn Clif...I was hoping you'd pipe in with a success story.
>
> Me too, but no got. Maybe Richard can tell you - he tried to help me,
> but it was hopeless.
>
> Someone on
> another board suggested using crazy-glue on the fingertips. Have you
> ever tried that
>
> No, but I've heard of it. One of my students told me he uses a skin
> toughener on fingertips before gigging - something you can get in the
> HBA at a drug store or supermarket. He's done the crazy glue too - they
> use it for medical suturing now, so it's not likely to hurt you.
>
Crazy Glue, also know as CA, also known as cyanoacrylate can cause some
pretty nasty reactions, so I would urge caution. Some people have no
problem with it, others (like me) develop allergic reactions (which can last
for days) to the stuff over time with repeated exposures, so you might want
to go this route with a bit of caution.
On a related, sky is falling type note, with regards to acrylic nails, I
often see acetone mentioned as the preffered remover/solvent. Please be
aware that acetone is nasty, nasty stuff. It attacks the liver, and gets to
it any way it can, either by being absorbed through the skin, or through the
lungs when fumes are inhales, and the stuff evaporates amazingly quick.
So use the stuff if you need to, just be careful.
Sotos
tomb...@jhu.edu
losing them. Most of the time, as long as I keep a steady playing
regime going, they do not fray. If I intensify or drop off the amount
of playing time, then the calluses alter and I get fraying.
Physiology varies, but I would give it some steady time before writing
the approach off.
Jack A. Zucker
playing by myself everything goes great but when I'm playing with someone
else and struggling to be heard I dig in more and then the friction
increases.
During the winter (cleveland) my fingers are always chapped...
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Don Judy" <dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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William C.
Keep nails short.
Have a strong thumb... If a buildup starts that would get in the way, a
little filing with a Revlon two-sided metal file.
To keep skin smooth, I've used petroleum jelly, rub on/in, then wash with
hot water/soap, wipe off/dry with towel.
A relatively new product has come out:
Gold Bond Ultimate Healing skin therapy lotion
which is Excellent. Great Stuff.
It is about subtlety, dynamics, finding the stride(s)/touch(-es), letting
the amp do the work... blah blah blah.
My jazz work is for me these days, I never agonized, the various streams
that appealed to me came/come naturally without fuss.
Here is some billy picking on a Message Tune that has given quite a ride
thus far:
http://www.mixposure.com/song.php?songid=1572
right click on download link at page, save target as.
Like anything else, only you can arrive at your own fingerstyle that
fits.... you.
Gerry
<misterw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Like anything else, only you can arrive at your own fingerstyle that
> fits.... you.
Yeah, that's the cool thing about so much in guitar. I'm quite sure my
fingerstyle is like nobody else's. It would just be too cruel...
--
The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who
are undecided.
-- Casey Stengel
William C.
"Gerry" <add...@domain.com.invalid> wrote
> Yeah, that's the cool thing about so much in guitar. I'm quite sure my
> fingerstyle is like nobody else's. It would just be too cruel...
You made me chuckle... again.
Tom Lippincott
news:1106934615.2...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Jack;
My buddy Fred Hsia is a monster player with bare fingers (he's adept at up
OR down strokes with all 5 fingers); Richard knows him and speaks of him
with great reverence. Anyway, I'll ask him next time I talk to him if he
has any suggestions.
--
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
8 string guitar audio samples at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/tomlippincottmusic.htm
Jack A. Zucker
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Tom Lippincott" <tomlip...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:CpHKd.3489$gA2....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
pmfan57
If you can get ahold of them, check out Howard Morgan's old guitar
World columns on Richard Boukas' fingerstyle technique. Rich is a
great Brazilian style guitarist (and one of the greatest musicians in
the world) and has applied alternating thumb and index finger to great
effect for bebop/modern lines on steel string electric as well. Or you
can just email Richard and ask him how he does it. Check out his site
Boukas.com and his email information is there. (If you send your son to
study with Richard in Manhattan, he'll come back playing just like a
Brazilian).
I agree that i-m is hard to get fast, although goodness knows Paco de
Lucia is pretty good at it!!!!
rof...@hotmail.com
File them- same thing with the left hand callouses.
Robert
Jack A. Zucker
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
<rof...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107011717....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
rof...@hotmail.com
It's done in the classical guitar world. When executing ascending or
descending ligados, a calloused fingertip can make the slur sound less
clean. I think that it was at a David Russell masterclass that I heard
this.
Robert
Jack A. Zucker
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
<rof...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107015248....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Greg M. Silverman
> Thanks Robert. I did file the callous on my right hand thumb and it helped.
>
Proper technique on a nylon stringed instrument should not create
callouses. The idea is to use the wieght of the left arm as a fulcrum so
that very little finger pressure is needed to stop the strings making
callouses as thing of the past. Also there should be no pressure at the
thumb.
Instead of worrying about the right hand, focus more on your left, since
this is the big bottleneck in classical technique, especially if you are
right handed (a small part being that the right hand is easier to
control for righthanded people and vice versa for left handers and thus
should take less time to develop). My favorite exercizes for left hand
development are double stops in various intervals and left hand only
slurs in all sorts of combinations. Check out the Aguado method for some
good ideas, available for download at
http://www.eythorsson.com/en/index.html
I am finding this to be very true in my current study of 11-course
baroque lute technique. In particular, even though RH tech is much more
demanding thatn 6-string classical, especially given the span in the
basses to deal with, it is not insurmountable. I am finding the
challenge more in my left hand tech.
The right hand is easier to shape up, the one thing I would add that
hadn't been already discussed in this thread is that you should do a lot
rasgeuado work (is fun to do them with various permutations over chord
changes), as this will help solidy the RH.
gms--
oasysco
Greg
Jack A. Zucker
Thanks for the links. However, I disagree with you on your assessment that
you shouldn't be getting callouses on the right hand. Maybe you missed the
original posting but I'm talking about playing jazz with bare fingers on
steel strings.
Every jazz guitarist who plays with his fingers has callouses on the right
hand fingers. Striking the strings hard is part of the characteristic sound
utilized by Wes, Benson, Rodney Jones, etc.
The Aguado looks great though. Thanks! :-)
Jaz
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Greg M. Silverman" <gm...@MOVEumn.MEeduAT.COM> wrote in message
news:ctgsdr$ilh$1...@lenny.tc.umn.edu...
rof...@hotmail.com
Greg M. Silverman wrote:
> Jack A. Zucker wrote:
> > Thanks Robert. I did file the callous on my right hand thumb and it
helped.
> >
>
> Proper technique on a nylon stringed instrument should not create
> callouses.
Greg,
It can if you work hard enough at it :) ***If you play louder, you
must press harder***. Speaking of the left hand here. Also,
repetitive exercises tend towards a toughening of the skin. Try playing
a concerto.... I think that it was David Russell that related this,
but it was at a master class in graduate school that I learned it.
Jack didn't mention whether he was speaking of nylon or steel, did
he?
Take Care,
Robert
rof...@hotmail.com
rof...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Greg M. Silverman wrote:
> > Jack A. Zucker wrote:
> > > Thanks Robert. I did file the callous on my right hand thumb and
it
> helped.
> > >
> >
> > Proper technique on a nylon stringed instrument should not create
> > callouses.
>
> Greg,
> It can if you work hard enough at it :) ***If you play louder, you
> must press harder***. Speaking of the left hand here. Also,
> repetitive exercises tend towards a toughening of the skin. Try
playing
> a concerto.... I think that it was David Russell that related this,
> but it was at a master class in graduate school that I learned it.
> Jack didn't mention whether he was speaking of nylon or steel, did
> he?
> Take Care,
> Robert
>
Add to that the factors of string gauge and action.
Take Care,
Robert
tomb...@jhu.edu
haven't been playing very much. When I'm in a regular
playing regimen, my fingertips just get tough, but
they stay supple and don't get hard or fray. Same
for both RH and LH, and I only play nylon.
rof...@hotmail.com
Tom,
Isn't your fingertip getting tough an example of a callus? How are you
defining it?
Main Entry: 1cal·lus
Pronunciation: 'ka-l&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin
1 : a thickening of or a hard thickened area on skin or bark
Take Care,
Robert
icarusi
news:1106934615.2...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Any suggestions?
The only nail-less fingerstylers I know are either nail-biters or those with
pudgy fingers where the flesh overgrows a short nail with little effort.
Have you got those type of fingers?
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Greg M. Silverman
> Greg,
>
> Thanks for the links. However, I disagree with you on your assessment that
> you shouldn't be getting callouses on the right hand. Maybe you missed the
> original posting but I'm talking about playing jazz with bare fingers on
> steel strings.
>
Tee hee! Are we talking lh or rh? LH nylon should have only minimal
hardening, but steel string does definitely make a difference in
pronounced left hand callouses.
Now for rh, without nails you will definitely grow callouses regardless
of whther you play nylon, steel or gut at the fleshy part where you
strike the string.
> Every jazz guitarist who plays with his fingers has callouses on the right
> hand fingers. Striking the strings hard is part of the characteristic sound
> utilized by Wes, Benson, Rodney Jones, etc.
Okay, me bad! True for any string material on the rh. I was talking
about nylon and gut on lh fingertips.
>
> The Aguado looks great though. Thanks! :-)
Some challenging stuff. Enjoy!
Peace!
gms--
Tone
I don't think so. I'm the same way, its almost impossible for me to
grow extra layers of skin that pile up and harden although they feel a
little tougher than the rest of the finger. Very rarely does anything
peel off, much less need filing off. I've always kinda wished I could
grow them, if only as proof that I actually play the thing daily.
Jack A. Zucker
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Greg M. Silverman" <gm...@MOVEumn.MEeduAT.COM> wrote in message
news:cthf9e$maf$1...@lenny.tc.umn.edu...
Greg M. Silverman
> I was talking right hand, steel string. Sorry for the confusion. :-)
>
Tee hee! I'll have to go back and reread the whole thread (doh!).
Anyway, I think that tip hardening as oppossed to full blown thick
callouses in both left and right hands (w or w/o nails) should be the
norm, regardless of string material (unless of course you are beginner).
My point about classical technique and the need to work more on left
hand precision stands. I think you'll really dig the Agauado exercises
for what they do. My favorite of the lot is double stops on octaves, in
book 2, page 22. Do it wrong, and it becomes quite painful. Do it right,
and the benefits are huge. I do this one on lute and find it's
especially good for proper fingertip placement for proper intonation and
elimination of string crossing noise, etc., especially on the double
courses where this is a huge problem with lute technique).
gms--
Jack A. Zucker
exercises.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Greg M. Silverman" <gm...@MOVEumn.MEeduAT.COM> wrote in message
news:ctj5go$4bp$1...@lenny.tc.umn.edu...
Greg M. Silverman
> Thanks again for the links. I've already played through many of the Asauado
> exercises.
>
If you like the Aguado, check out the Coste. Op 38 is really fun stuff
(it was written for a 7-string instrument, so some of the lower voices
were transposed accordingly for 6-stringers).
gms--
tomb...@jhu.edu
but I think of a callous as a thick, tough layer
of mostly dead skin, like you get on the bottom of
your feet. If you are ever laid up in bed for a
couple of months, god forbid, that dead stuff will
start to peel and fall off your feet.
When I first began guitar, I used to get callouses
like that on my fingers. Now, after 25 years of
playing, I have very little thickness or dead skin
on my fingers. They are just slightly tougher on the
tips than the rest of my body, but still consist of
mostly alive and supple skin cells. I no longer get
the build-up of dead skin layers that I used to.
My LH fingertips are fatter than my RH tips, too,
even though the tips on both hands are equally
tough since I play fingerstyle. I think that
my LH tips fattened up because I needed them to
in order to finger double-stops. The human body
is remarkably plastic and responsive to
environmental conditions. I remember my cello
teacher when I was a kid had string grooves
permanently etched in his LH fingertips.
Big fat ones, too, from those fat cello strings.
paul
I first started playing, and if that fell off it would hurt until it
built up again. now, I have no dead skin on my left hand at all, you
can see the fingerprints on the tips whereas before you couldn't.
--paul
j...@jackzucker.com
No but I like the sound of bare fingers better. My idea of good
fingerstyle tone is more along the lines of Wes or Bornman...
thom_j.
> Any suggestions?
> Jaz
Jack. If you were only lucky' enough to get diabetes and
stick yourself in all your fingers and thumbs 4times a day,
you get a find hard crust on the end of each!! I do/did &
ya' can't beat these superb hard tip diabetic appendages
like I have now! Nope ya' can't beat it! Give it a try! 8^)'.
cheers, non'glucose'imbibing tee'..
icarusi
news:1107195523....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Have you got those type of fingers?
> >
> > Icarusi
> > --
> > remove the 00 to reply
>
> No but I like the sound of bare fingers better. My idea of good
> fingerstyle tone is more along the lines of Wes or Bornman...
I don't have those finger types either. I'd probably try a glove.
Tom Lippincott
paul <pcsa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107182923.8...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Jack (and anyone else who's curious);
I talked to Fred Hsia about the "rough fingers" syndrome, and he said he
thinks it just takes time. I felt his right hand fingertips and they feel
just like my left hand fingertips; tough but not hard. I remember the first
few years I played guitar my left hand calluses would build up really thick,
then peel off, and it was a cycle. Over the years, the skin just started
getting tougher, and the skin went from feeling rough, like a callus, to
just feeling sort of tough and leathery, but still almost just as pliable as
"normal" skin. Anyway, that's what Fred said about his right hand calluses;
same thing. After several years they just toughen up and the skin stops
getting that hard "crusty" thing. Fred gets a great tone with bare fingers,
BTW. As a matter of fact, these days he's almost exclusively into playing
nylon string. I had always thought it was impossible to get a decent tone
on nylon strings without nails until I heard Fred. He actually is able to
get more dynamic variety in a way; because the initial attack is softer, he
can really lay into the string without getting an overly bright or harsh
attack. I still maintain the delusion of one day becoming a decent
classical player, plus I think I'm getting too old to make yet another major
technique change, so I don't think I'll give up on the nails but I can
definitely see the benefits of bare fingers.
Also, I've been trying to talk Fred into doing some recording and he's
decided that he may eventually do something. He's a great player with a lot
of artistic integrity and depth, and a unique approach and sound.
paul
advice) takes a no nails approach as well, which suits someone like me
(pick + fingers on electric) great.
--paul
thom_j.
> Also, I've been trying to talk Fred into doing some recording and he's
> decided that he may eventually do something. He's a great player with a
> lot
> of artistic integrity and depth, and a unique approach and sound.
Great info on the "leathery finger tips" Tom L. as I have found this to
happen for me years' ago too, but I never gave it a thought until your
post here.. Also is it possible that we might see a 'duet' with you and
Fred in the working? alwayz curious tee'..