Best effect pedal to get a jazz sound?
Leo
sound is not in the devices, it's in the" fingers/ guitar/ amp/
whatever (take your pick). I agree with all this so let's pass that
point.
I have an AER Domino and a Gibson 175. Since the AER is basically
aimed at amplifying acoustic guitars it doesn't really produce a warm
jazzy sound. I also have a Roland Cube 60 that does a better job.
However, the Domino has the advantage of having multiple independent
channels so it can also serve as an amplifier for our bass player
during practices. That way he doesn't have to bring along his amp as
well as his double bass on public transportation.
This is why I am looking for an easy fix in the form of an effect
pedal. I only want to get a bit warmer and fuller sound without using
delay/chorus. Perhaps a slight amount of distortion will do the trick
but most pedals don't seem to do slight amounts of distortion.
Furthermore I'd like it to be small and battery operated. Since it
only has to do this one thing, no versatility is required.
Does anyone have any tips?
Leo
Neer
If the amp has a line level input, you can use an external preamp,
such as a small tube preamp, to send a warmer signal to the Domino.
Something like a Sans Amp would be great, too.
Nate Najar
Kevin Van Sant
<l.j.vester*NOSPAMpleeze*@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
<n0p9575fqlqo6s4fv...@4ax.com> :
Perhaps it would be easier to answer if you rephrased the question
from how to get a "jazz" sound, to how to get a sound like
"__________" ? I gather you have something in particular in mind.
________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
http://www.kevinvansant.com
info, music, videos, etc...
Joe Finn
Tube preamp? ...joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
Or say hello via Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/?ref=home
Keith Freeman
That would be my first port of call with an acoustic amp too. For example
the Presonus.
Alternatively you could get a Lunchbox and let your bassist have exclusive
use of the AER ;-}
-Keith
Clips, Portable Changes, tips etc.: www.keithfreemantrio.nl
e-mail: info AT keithfreemantrio DOT nl
Jim Soloway
clean boost that fattens and warms the tone quite a bit when you're
running through that sort of rig.
uiop99
Portuguese and Spanish!
Jim Soloway
> Wow, worst pedal name ever! It translates as 'big pile of shit' both in
> Portuguese and Spanish!
>
us have here, it would probably be a good thing for us to check these
things once in a while.
Joey Goldstein
Put an EQ into the effects loop of the amp and cut everything above 5k
as much as possible and that amp/cab should take on more of the
characteristics of an amp/cab designed for electric guitar.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
Leo
>
>Perhaps it would be easier to answer if you rephrased the question
>from how to get a "jazz" sound, to how to get a sound like
>"__________" ? I gather you have something in particular in mind.
>
Kevin,
You're right (but i was also trying to avoid replies like "by
practicing for years and years" :-)
What i'm looking for is what I wouls call a fairly basic jazz tone.
Instead of this acoustic sound:
http://youtu.be/7JuuBfN85Nk
http://youtu.be/i6HlrYbvaro
... I'd like more of this:
http://youtu.be/8xofY4NZ_bs
http://youtu.be/THJjrucocPQ
...and preferably end up with this sound:
http://youtu.be/Lwu7TT7C2hQ (although he's probably not using a 175 on
that)
Also I am looking for a pedal that makes me play like Kenny Burrell
but let me save that question for another thread ;-)
Leo
Leo
>> Tube preamp? ...joe
>That would be my first port of call with an acoustic amp too. For example
>the Presonus.
>
>Alternatively you could get a Lunchbox and let your bassist have exclusive
>use of the AER ;-}
>
>-Keith
Nahhh, before you know it he would be suggesting I'd get him a car so
he can bring his own amp :-)
Leo
Joey Goldstein
But you'd need a pretty powerful EQ to be able to do the amount of cut
above 5k to really make this work well, something with a blocking EQ of
a very high order. This would probably call for some sort of a
rack-mount EQ rather than a pedal.
Something else you could try is putting a guitar speaker emulator in
your FX loop, like a Palmer PDI-09 or Hughes & Kettner Redbox Classic.
I own them both but I tend to like the sound of the H&K much better.
But neither of these boxes have a bypass switch.
Does the AER have the capability to bypass its FX-loop?
Once you've cut the freqs above 5k you should be able to use the AER's
tone controls and the guitar's tone control to dial in a decent jazz tone.
Kevin Van Sant
<l.j.vester*NOSPAMpleeze*@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
<geba579cekqnkhsjl...@4ax.com> :
>Kevin Van Sant <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Perhaps it would be easier to answer if you rephrased the question
>>from how to get a "jazz" sound, to how to get a sound like
>>"__________" ? I gather you have something in particular in mind.
>>
>Kevin,
>
>You're right (but i was also trying to avoid replies like "by
>practicing for years and years" :-)
>
>What i'm looking for is what I wouls call a fairly basic jazz tone.
>
>Instead of this acoustic sound:
>http://youtu.be/7JuuBfN85Nk
>http://youtu.be/i6HlrYbvaro
>... I'd like more of this:
>http://youtu.be/8xofY4NZ_bs
>http://youtu.be/THJjrucocPQ
Your Roland ought to be able to get either one of these
>...and preferably end up with this sound:
>http://youtu.be/Lwu7TT7C2hQ (although he's probably not using a 175 on
>that)
I would think you'd be able to get pretty close to this with a 175 and
the AER. Do your amps have reverb?
You might look into some sort of compressor. But I'm the last one to
talk about pedals since I just do guitar/amp. But definitely there's
some compression going on in the clips you like.
Leo
Thanks for the input. After reading your post I dug up a Trace Elliot
7 band graphic EQ pedal I used a while ago and found out it had the 5K
freq turned all the way down (-15 dB) from last tim i used it. I'll
give it a go with this amp and see how it works out.
About the bypass: the AER Domino has some internal effects (reverb,
delay). A send control lets you set the influence of the effect on
that channel. It also has an external effects loop but there is no
control which enables you set which channels are sent through it.
Thie means the bass sound would go through it as well but I wonder how
much of an effect that would have?
Leo
Leo
>
>>... I'd like more of this:
>>http://youtu.be/8xofY4NZ_bs
>>http://youtu.be/THJjrucocPQ
>
>Your Roland ought to be able to get either one of these
That's correct, but I don't want to bring two amps just for practice.
>
>
>>...and preferably end up with this sound:
>>http://youtu.be/Lwu7TT7C2hQ (although he's probably not using a 175 on
>>that)
>
>I would think you'd be able to get pretty close to this with a 175 and
>the AER. Do your amps have reverb?
>
>You might look into some sort of compressor. But I'm the last one to
>talk about pedals since I just do guitar/amp. But definitely there's
>some compression going on in the clips you like.
The AER has reverb but I think the main factor is indeed compression.
It seems to me that most 'electric guitar' amps have a tendency to
compress the sound (especially the attack) while acoustic guitar amps
try to faithfully reproduce the attack and the upper frequencies,
giving them a more shrill sound.
I happened to have used a Boss CS3 compressor last week which indeed
helped to smooth things out quite a bit, but the quest continues...
Thanks for the input!
Leo
Joey Goldstein
>> I own them both but I tend to like the sound of the H&K much better.
>> But neither of these boxes have a bypass switch.
>> Does the AER have the capability to bypass its FX-loop?
>>
>> Once you've cut the freqs above 5k you should be able to use the AER's
>> tone controls and the guitar's tone control to dial in a decent jazz tone.
>
> Thanks for the input. After reading your post I dug up a Trace Elliot
> 7 band graphic EQ pedal I used a while ago and found out it had the 5K
> freq turned all the way down (-15 dB) from last tim i used it. I'll
> give it a go with this amp and see how it works out.
>
> About the bypass: the AER Domino has some internal effects (reverb,
> delay). A send control lets you set the influence of the effect on
> that channel. It also has an external effects loop but there is no
> control which enables you set which channels are sent through it.
> Thie means the bass sound would go through it as well but I wonder how
> much of an effect that would have?
>
> Leo
If the AER's effects loop affects all of its channels and you need this
on one channel only while you simultaneously use one of the other
channels then you're out of luck.
Rick Stone
I've been using a little Korg Pandora PXD4 when I travel and/or go to
sessions and rehearsals where I might have to use other amps and find it
works quite well. I DON'T use the amp simulations (they're noisy and
don't sound that great) but DO like to use a VERY SLIGHT bit of the
compressor (about 1.2 - 1.5) and some of the spring reverb sound
(actually pretty convincing). I've used it to plug into keyboard amps,
bass amps, PAs, and other things that aren't very good for amplifying
guitar and found it to give me decent results.
They quit making this unit, but you can still find some on eBay.
--
Musically Yours,
Rick Stone
Website: http://www.rickstone.com
Recordings: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/jazzand
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/jazzand
Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/rickstonemusic
EPK: http://www.sonicbids.com/rickstone
skip
Maybe try the Barber Barb-Eq , which is a nice preamp to warm up the
AER , there is one on sale here on the newsgroup. I've been using one
with the ss amps that I use inc the AER cube 60.
Skip
Gerry
> I've been using a little Korg Pandora PXD4 when I travel and/or go to
> sessions and rehearsals where I might have to use other amps and find
> it works quite well. I DON'T use the amp simulations (they're noisy
> and don't sound that great) but DO like to use a VERY SLIGHT bit of the
> compressor (about 1.2 - 1.5) and some of the spring reverb sound
> (actually pretty convincing). I've used it to plug into keyboard amps,
> bass amps, PAs, and other things that aren't very good for amplifying
> guitar and found it to give me decent results.
>
> They quit making this unit, but you can still find some on eBay.
What did Korg replace the unit with?
--
-- At this point Sharazad saw the approach of morning and discreetly
fell silent.
eric s
px 5d. I use it with my lunchbox for rehearsals. works fine.
e
Joey D
Montgomery and a Lee Ritenour -both 1 PU's) I just roll the volume back
to 9, 9.5 and it warms up the sound to my liking. Then a little work on
the tone control = "Jazz Sound". This is usually through AI Clarus 1R
w/either a NY8 or Twin 8. But, I find this works for most other amps.
Joe
In article <n0p9575fqlqo6s4fv...@4ax.com>, Leo
Leo
L5 instead of a 175 :-) Some years ago I saw Russel Malone play one
(or was that a super 5?) through a tiny AER Bingo, and it sounded
definitely better than my 175 on the same amp (see also this message:
http://www.musik-news.org/goto/5605/AER_Amps.html#msg_5605).
Leo
David J. Littleboy
"Leo" <l.j.vester*NOSPAMpleeze*@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>I think you may have a little help from the fact you're playing on an
> L5 instead of a 175 :-) Some years ago I saw Russel Malone play one
> (or was that a super 5?) through a tiny AER Bingo, and it sounded
> definitely better than my 175 on the same amp
FWIW, I also recommend a Korg or Korg-like things. The Tascam GT-R1 only has
headphone and line outputs (it doesn't have a guitar-level output), but it
sounds really great through monitor headphones. If you could plug the Korg
or Tascam output into the AER in some way, you'd be home free.
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
paulricha...@gmail.com
Paulrichardsguitar.com
Leo
>I use my 175 through an Aer compact 60 and sounds good n jazzy but yes I'd like just a bit more kick to the sound so I'll look at all the options mentioned here, xotic rc booster may be a good option..
>
>Paulrichardsguitar.com
someone :-)
Leo
rpjazzguitar
I have the Lunchbox and PX5D. I can't get a sound I like out of it. Maybe up a long flight of stairs. Apparently, some guys do very well with this combination, including Joe Giglio (from whom I got the idea) -- Joe is a great player. But, I haven't been as successful.
I use the PX5D as a practice headphone amp. It's very good for that. In fact, I can practice with my Strat copy (the easiest guitar I own on my arthritis) and get a good-enough imitation of a humbucker sound using the single coil to humbucker module.
I have been using the Boss ME80 for a few months now. There are a lot of options available for making a sound jazzier (or rockier or whatever). 4 band EQ, compression, preamp modeling (I like the Tweed model. Reverb, delay, chorus etc.
David J. Littleboy
FWIW, and it's not worth much, I find the "Acoustic Sim" option on my Cube
20GX sounds quite nice with my Holst (16" carved spruce top, one set in Seth
Lover humbucker). The midrange seems a bit nicer than the JC Clean channel.
It's pretty subtle, though.
As I've mentioned before, I went with a friend to check out a guitar store
here, and he spent some time with the latest Boss multi-effects box. To my
ear, the best sounding patch was "through".
-- David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
news:ec503c60-ccd3-49cd...@googlegroups.com...
Lord Valve
'Nuff said.
Lord Valve
Organist
Gerry
at that time regarded being happy with the Boss GT3. Now it's the Roland
GR55--vastly more than needed for this circumstance.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.
Gerry
> FWIW, and it's not worth much, I find the "Acoustic Sim" option on my
> Cube 20GX sounds quite nice with my Holst (16" carved spruce top, one set
> in Seth Lover humbucker).
without e-simulation.
>The midrange seems a bit nicer than the JC Clean channel. It's pretty subtle, though.
>
> As I've mentioned before, I went with a friend to check out a guitar
> store here, and he spent some time with the latest Boss multi-effects
> box. To my ear, the best sounding patch was "through".
ott...@hotmail.com
> Try using the same pedal Wes used.
>
>
>
> 'Nuff said.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lord Valve
>
Bg
> Organist
rpjazzguitar
He used, at least part of the time, a tube Standel amp, or so I've read. Standel, apparently, also made solid state amps, but I've read that Wes used the tube model.
I think I recall reading that he also used a Fender Twin.
That said, I've heard people get his tone, close enough anyway, with an L5, a thumb instead of a pick, and a non descript but clean amp.
When people talk about "jazz tone" I think that most of us, consciously or not, think about Wes' tone. And, yet, few of us play his way. Wes was quite clear that he played with his thumb because it sounded better than a pick. He also said that he knew that he sacrificed speed. Wes doesn't sound fast, until you try to play his lines at his tempo. Then, it sounds fast.
Gerry
> in <2a419a6c-608a-4dc7...@googlegroups.com>,
>> I've read that Wes was finicky about amps.
>>
>> He used, at least part of the time, a tube Standel amp, or so I've
>> read. Standel, apparently, also made solid state amps, but I've read
>> that Wes used the tube model.
>>
>> I think I recall reading that he also used a Fender Twin.
>>
>> That said, I've heard people get his tone, close enough anyway, with an
>> L5, a thumb instead of a pick, and a non descript but clean amp.
>
>
> it's the timbre that comes from the guitar and if you don't start with that ...
>
> heavier strings and "weaker" pickups (relative to what's available today) are a start
> maybe add some slight compression and a touch of room (20-30 ms) reverb.
> But back then everything had high-frequency rolloff, so the smartass answer is "EQ pedal"
Not such a smart-ass response.
Lord Valve
I saw him in DC in 1966 (if I recall correctly) and he was using
a Dual Showman.
Lord Valve
Organist
rpjazzguitar
Tim McNamara
thomas
Docbop
What I read about Wes amp wise he preferred his old tube Standel, but his preference list was first a Super Reverb and second a Twin Reverb.
A musican hands are their main source of tone, especially Wes.
Leo
more after he made my kill file.
Joey Goldstein
> Tone especially in Jazz is the musician first and guitar second, and every thing else is a distant third. If you read old interviews and such you find amps were the least important thing to the old legends. They played so many gigs that they had to use whatever was supplied they just learned to dial in what they needed. One quote I remember I think it as Barney Kessel said... if an amp works it's a good amp.
>
> What I read about Wes amp wise he preferred his old tube Standel, but his preference list was first a Super Reverb and second a Twin Reverb.
I've always heard that it was ss with a 15" JBL speaker.
Lenny Breau used to use a Standel sometimes at his gigs in the 70s at
Georges Spaghetti House and/or Bourbon street here in Toronto and I'm
pretty sure it was ss too.
As far as tone being in the hands or in the gear is concerned, I think
people mix up a musician's "tone" with his "voice".
IMO Gear has a lot to do with a player's tone.
But their voice is all in their mind. the hands just transfer what
they're hearing to their instrument.
The voice comes about from timbre choices, note choices, dynamic
inflection, phrasing etc.
A player's voice will still come through even if they're getting a
shitty tone with shitty gear.
Just like you can still recognize a singer's voice through a tiny
transistor radio vs a hi-fi stereo.
IMO.
> A musican hands are their main source of tone, especially Wes.
>
<http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JoeyGoldstein>
<https://www.facebook.com/JoeyGoldsteinMusic>
Lord Valve
Lord Valve
Organist
thomas
I experienced the same thing at Laurindo Almeida gig. First set sucked; second set great.
Lord Valve
Wes' Standel was a 70-watt solid-state combo with a 15" JBL D-130F
in it. He was said to be quite fond of it. Chances are, like any "celebrity"
musician, he had to fly to some gigs without his gear. The venue or
the promoter would've provided one for him at the gig, and I'm sure
that Fender Twins, Super Reverbs, and Dual Showmans were a lot
easier to come up with than Standels. I only saw Wes live twice, and
I just can't remember what he was using for an amp on one of those
shows; like I said, the one in DC he had a Showman head with a 1-15
cabinet under it.
I *do* remember that he was great, though.
Lord Valve
Organist
Docbop
http://www.standelamps.com/about_us/story/story_p10.html
thomas
SB
everyone is searching for "their" own sound.... which mostly means sustain. It's not a sax... love your guitar.
Lord Valve
You'd be surprised how many people call me and want to
know what kind of pedals Derek Trucks uses. Some of
'em refuse to believe the answer: none. I have to tell the
ones who want to know if I can "make their Fender sound
like Derek's amp" ('65 Blackface Super Reverb) that while
I can set one up exactly the same as Derek's, "sounding
like Derek Trucks" ain't gonna happen without a shitload
of woodshedding - and in the process of doing that, you'll
probably find your own voice - and it'll be different from
Derek's.
Note that "octave" pedals were invented because people
wanted a little box that would make them sound like Wes,
without having to perfect the skills Wes had. Ditto for the
phase shifter, which was developed at the request of
guitar-playing weenies who didn't want to haul a real Leslie
to gigs, but wanted "that sound." (Sorry, no sympathy. ;-)
I've seen (and worked on) pedalboards that had so many
pedals on them that it was a fuckin' MIRACLE there was
anything left at all at the output of the FX chain.
Truth be told, Derek sounds like Derek through any amp.
And that's not a bad way to sound. ;-)
Lord Valve
Organist
ott...@hotmail.com
>
> Lenny Breau used to use a Standel sometimes at his gigs in the 70s at
>
> Georges Spaghetti House and/or Bourbon street here in Toronto and I'm
>
> pretty sure it was ss too.
>
>
I bought one as well and really liked the sound (2 x 10" methinks) but couldn't handle gig volumes on R & B gigs that I was doing at the time, I think I went to aTraynor Bloc amp at that time.
Bg
rpjazzguitar
I've had good and bad nights with small solid state and big tube.
Gerry
> I'm not certain of this, but I suspect that the room effects my tone more
> than my choice of amp.
>
> I've had good and bad nights with small solid state and big tube.
Gerry
someone else's sound. And that everything musical was a continuously
comparative process.
> which mostly means sustain. It's not a sax... love your guitar.
SB
Yea rockers love phase shifters, you are totally right about playing through a Leslie too. It is great for keyboards, they invented it and pioneered that sound. For guitar, errr.. wtf ? What about learning how to play the guitar ?
SB
rpjazzguitar
Can you tell before you start playing?
I can't. Even after all this time, I don't know what I'm going to get until I start playing.
Gerry
> If a guitarist has to resort to an octave pedal, then he not learning how
> to play the guitar. It is a vital skill for any jazz player: vital. I
> play them in the classical guitar style, as was taught to me, not in the
> Wes style. I can't imagine Wes without octaves. A pedal, come on.
octave-box is just e-fun, like scores of sig-proc devices, not a mark of
abject societal decay.
> Yea rockers love phase shifters, you are totally right about playing
> through a Leslie too. It is great for keyboards, they invented it and
> pioneered that sound. For guitar, errr.. wtf ?
>What about learning how to play the guitar ?
about the things others waste their time on. How about football and bad
movies?
Jazzer
>
> Did you find a solution at that time worth relaying? I assume my response
> at that time regarded being happy with the Boss GT3. Now it's the Roland
> GR55--vastly more than needed for this circumstance.
Gerry I've seen what the GR55 is all about.
Wouldn't you say "vastly more than needed for this circumstance"
is a bit of an understatement? :)
Surely there must be a pedal (smaller, less costly) that can do a
one-trick pony thing rather than an entire 'kitchen sink' thing?
Gerry
vastly more than necessary. Nevertheless, it's the gizmo I have for sigproc
as well as a synth, so it's what I'd be using.
I still think EQ is about all that's called for.