Intonation adjustment question

[rpjazzguitar]

I bought the Ed Sheeran Martin LX1E.

This is a short scale guitar which comes stock with 13-54 strings.

I want to go lighter, maybe to 11s or 11.5 to maybe 48.

I understand that this changes the tension and I may have to adjust the truss rod.

The intonation out of the factory carton was spot-on perfect. The neck does not seem to have any relief.

So, say I manage to get the new strings on, with the neck staying straight (after any adjustment).

Here's my question. Will I need to recut the bridge saddle? Does the fact that the strings are either skinnier or stretchier mean that the adjustment will automatically be off because the saddle is no longer right.

BTW, this is an acoustic electric with one long plastic looking saddle that is compensated by being cut with some angles.

TIA for any help.

PS -- the guitar sounds amazing amplified. I got it partly for my son, who is doing some fingerpicking that works on this instrument. But, it sings out very clearly all the way up the neck and comes with pretty low action. I'm going to try to play some jazz on it once I get the setup soft enough for my arthritis.

[Joey Goldstein]

On 1/23/2014, 3:12 PM, rpjazzguitar wrote:
> I bought the Ed Sheeran Martin LX1E.
>
> This is a short scale guitar which comes stock with 13-54 strings.
>
> I want to go lighter, maybe to 11s or 11.5 to maybe 48.
>
> I understand that this changes the tension and I may have to adjust the truss rod.
>
> The intonation out of the factory carton was spot-on perfect. The neck does not seem to have any relief.
>
> So, say I manage to get the new strings on, with the neck staying straight (after any adjustment).
>
> Here's my question. Will I need to recut the bridge saddle?

Probably.

>Does the fact that the strings are either skinnier or stretchier mean
that the adjustment will automatically be off because the saddle is no
longer right.
>
> BTW, this is an acoustic electric with one long plastic looking saddle that is compensated by being cut with some angles.
>
> TIA for any help.
>
> PS -- the guitar sounds amazing amplified. I got it partly for my son, who is doing some fingerpicking that works on this instrument. But, it sings out very clearly all the way up the neck and comes with pretty low action. I'm going to try to play some jazz on it once I get the setup soft enough for my arthritis.
>

--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JoeyGoldstein>
<https://www.facebook.com/JoeyGoldsteinMusic>

[mcle...@comcast.net]

No you may not need to do anything at all. I am not familiar with the guitar
as having worked on any but just change the strings and see what happens.
Frankly it does change the intonation a little but it may not make any real
difference. This is a bit of a jump but the easy thing is you will be
backing tension off the truss rod which is easy strung up to tension. Please
remember I do not believe in tightening the truss rod up on a guitar that is
strung up to full pitch. I realize many repairmen do this but not I. Now
lower the tension can be done with strings at full pitch so you have it
great. The saddle I think would be ok but again you have to see.
Theoretically changing the size of the string effects this but look at the
practical and what happens. If you need to then you simply put in a new
saddle no problem.

In the end string the box and see what happens. The other good thing is
going from bigger strings to lighter is easier all around than going the
opposite direction. The main reason is the stress on the guitar is less so
you know it holds up. I have worked on guitars that a player wanted to go
from a rock set up at 10-46 and now wants 13-56 and depending on the guitar
it may cause problems down the road.
Let me know what you get this interest me since I have not worked on one of
these guitars.




Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church
"Joey Goldstein" wrote in message
news:7c641$52e18a7c$adcefbd4$30...@PRIMUS.CA...

[TD]

As an aside, and after reading about your intonation and neck enlightenment, concerning tension, Roger Borys lightened up the tension on my new axe considerably by replacing the tailpiece with one that is shorter. I use 14 to 56 gauges and it feels great, tunes up great.

[mcle...@comcast.net]

Roger is a bright man and knows his stuff..... this is exactly what
happens... change the tailpiece length and you get a different feel. The
thing that this says and I believe is guitar building and to some extent
repair is a art. You cannot really pin down all the nuances and details in
some formula. Much like being a fine guitarist and Roger's work is an art
not a science, he gets in between the lines.

So Tony when are we going to get to hear you in action on this guitar? If
you ever get in the neighborhood I would play some Freddie Green for you on
the old D'a.

Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

"TD" wrote in message
news:e8033611-701d-4186...@googlegroups.com...

[TD]

Yes, Roger took extra time to sit and watch me play for while. He is able to match nuance with nuance. He is very observant. We learn from each other that way. I let him know that I need to adjust the action gradually as I play, as one example. This can take a period over days, weeks, or months, because I adjust action to meet the music I play ( my style for lines, chords, etc) and I try to find a happy medium that way. I take into consideration that it's a very new guitar. It's very cool to work with a builder in that respect.

[rpjazzguitar]

Somehow, during the 70s, I think, I became convinced that stud tailpieces, screwed down hard, were the way to go. I think the issue was, supposedly, getting more sustain to sound like Carlos Santana. (In retrospect, the most important single thing you can do to get Santana's sound, I think, is the Mesa Boogie lead circuit).

Anyway, that was unfortunate, because I have since come to appreciate a trapeze tailpiece. The additional string length behind the bridge makes the strings easier to deflect. A particular amount of distance bent doesn't result in as much pitch change. Theoretically, that's good for intonation (although the difference may not be audible). Not so good if you're hell bent on bending strings up to specific pitches.

Working with a luthier to get the thing optimized for your taste sounds great. A "bespoke" guitar.

[miguel]

On Thursday, January 23, 2014 4:56:33 PM UTC-8, mcle...@comcast.net wrote:
............

> So Tony when are we going to get to hear you in action on this guitar? If
>
> you ever get in the neighborhood I would play some Freddie Green for you on
>
> the old D'a.
>
>
>
> Deacon Mark Cleary
>
> Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

I would love to hear/see this!

[rpjazzguitar]

I changed from 13-56 to 12-54. The difference in feel is noticeable and helpful, although I suppose not dramatic.

The intonation stayed perfect. I can't see any difference in the relief of the neck.

[Joey Goldstein]

On 1/29/2014, 4:02 AM, rpjazzguitar wrote:
> I changed from 13-56 to 12-54. The difference in feel is noticeable and helpful, although I suppose not dramatic.
>
> The intonation stayed perfect. I can't see any difference in the relief of the neck.
>

You got lucky.
Enjoy.

[Joe Finn]

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:02:15 AM UTC-5, rpjazzguitar wrote:
> I changed from 13-56 to 12-54. The difference in feel is noticeable and helpful, although I suppose not dramatic.
>
>
>
> The intonation stayed perfect. I can't see any difference in the relief of the neck.

A change like that is generally not a big deal. The load on the truss rod is less now, however. It takes time for the different neck materials [wood, steel] to respond to the change. The materials respond differently and at different rates. Check the relief again in a day or two. You may measure an increased bow effect that can be compensated for with a rod adjustment.

When installing lighter strings you would not want to cut the nut slots. This can result in buzzing, poor intonation, etc. There are ways to fill and re-cut the slots if you were installing dramatically lighter strings but this can get complicated.

The only other issue is that with a brand new guitar [assuming yours is factory fresh] there may be a period during which the alignment settles in. You may feel this as you play it or you can measure for any changes. Most times nothing will happen but if anything does it should be in the first year as the seasons change. ...joe

[TD]

Having the new guitar properly humidified (as I am currently being conscientious about)can mostly by-pass the hazards of seasons changing. Profound gauge differences will undoubtedly require truss rod adjustments. Minimal displacing may not be such a big deal. I am not a gauge-shifter, although I've been known to jump camps from time to time. Additional elements often come into 'play.' There is absolutely a period that the new ax will go through before she settles. I like to respect the wood. For me, it's still alive.

[rpjazzguitar]

That's what I thought too.