PRS McCarty Hollowbody

[gant...@comcast.net]

I have a friend's PRS McCarty Hollybody w/ the peizo. He has my 1965
Gibson ES-330. We're thinking about trading guitars. I don't know
about the future value of either guitar, given the wackiness of the
vintage guitar market, but I do know this: I love this guitar! I'm
hoping my buddy Mike likes my 330, because I already don't want to give
the PRS back! I"ve been playing a 1985 PRS Custom 24 for years...
well, since 1985. It's been one of the most consistant and stable
guitars I've ever owned.

So, what's the RMMGJ concensus on the McCarty Hollowbody?

[rpguitar]

> So, what's the RMMGJ concensus on the McCarty Hollowbody?

Absolutely great. I have a 2004 Spruce with piezo that could be my
only guitar if I had to pick one. Light as a feather, perfect neck and
frets, really nice sounding "acoustic" mode, lovely jazz tone, sweet
and biting through overdrive.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Fantastic guitar- my favorite of all time.

www.markkleinhaut.com

[gant...@comcast.net]

I was running some mixes in the studio by myself, so I dragged my
Deluxe reverb into the control room and played along on the PRS. It
just might be one of the best sounding guitars I've ever played. I
think I have to have it.

Gantt

[335p...@gmail.com]

gant...@comcast.net wrote:
> I have a friend's PRS McCarty Hollybody w/ the peizo. He has my 1965
> Gibson ES-330. We're thinking about trading guitars. I don't know
> about the future value of either guitar, given the wackiness of the
> vintage guitar market, but I do know this: I love this guitar! I'm
> hoping my buddy Mike likes my 330, because I already don't want to give
> the PRS back! I"ve been playing a 1985 PRS Custom 24 for years...
> well, since 1985. It's been one of the most consistant and stable
> guitars I've ever owned.
>

Apparently you had no trouble adapting to the PRS wide/fat neck
profile. It must be a wider neck than your 330.

[gant...@comcast.net]

I also have an older PRS Custom 24. The necks aren't that different.
The ES-330 has a pretty thin neck. I don't like 'em too skinny or too
fat. The McCarty feels pretty darn good! And the sound...

And did I mention that it's drop-dead gorgeous?

gantt
-------------------------------------
www.gizmorecording.com

[jaz]

They sound great but they're neck heavy and uncomfortable to play
standing unless your style includes resting an arm on top of the
guitar. Additionally, because they are so light, if you do not rest
your arm on the guitar to keep it steady it had a tendency to move as
you play. This is a dealbreaker for the way I happen to pick. When
Kleinhaut and I got together, it worked fine for him but when I played
it the neck dove like an anchor.

[Derek]

I have one of the last PRS Archtops made. It is the same as the
Hollowbody, just deeper. Has the Baggs system. I traded out the neck
pup for a Gibson Classic 57, as I thought the PRS pup had too much
bite. I am thinking about trading it in for a Sadowsky JH. My only
hesitation is I will miss it, as it is a very versatile guitar.

[rpguitar]

> They sound great but they're neck heavy and uncomfortable to play

I just want to point out that this is definitely one man's opinion -
admittedly a strong one since Jack says this every time the PRS HB has
come up in discussion. However I do not experience this at all, not in
the least actually. So I have to take issue with the emphatic, assumed
factual tone of the comment.

I have a thinline Tele with a solid rosewood neck - now that guitar IS
neck heavy.

[jaz]

rpguitar wrote:
> > They sound great but they're neck heavy and uncomfortable to play
>
> I just want to point out that this is definitely one man's opinion -
> admittedly a strong one since Jack says this every time the PRS HB has
> come up in discussion. However I do not experience this at all, not in
> the least actually. So I have to take issue with the emphatic, assumed
> factual tone of the comment.

Mark was there and saw it neck dive. You think I just make this up for
fun? :)

The point is that it's neck heavy. Whether this effects you or not is a
variable based on your playing style, your build, whether you playing
standing, etc.. If you rest your arm on the top of the guitar or if you
play sitting or if you have a pot belly it may not be an issue.

People think an instrument's balance is a subjective thing. It's not.
This is very easy to prove. Hand the instrument on a pole by it's
strap. A well balanced instrument will stay in almost any position. A
neck heavy instrument such as the PRS HB or a Warwick bass will
immediately rotate in the direction of the neck. Your shoulder is the
pivot point when you are wearing the instrument.

You can sometimes circumvent the neck dive by wearing a suede strap.

[rpguitar]

> The point is that it's neck heavy.

> People think an instrument's balance is a subjective thing. It's not.

OK, I stand corrected. It's an objectively neck-heavy guitar that,
when used by guitarists approaching my general build and posture,
appears so convincingly NOT neck-heavy that it effectively simulates an
instrument that is objectively NOT neck-heavy.

Sort of like the "If a tree falls and nobody is there, did it make a
sound" conundrum.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I think you're both right in a way. Objectively, the HB is neck heavy
as Jack says, that is; if you hang the guitar around your shoulder and
take both hands off the instrument the neck indeed drops. In practice,
however, for me, my right arm is resting on the guitar body-
effectively pushing it down, while my left hand is pushing the neck up
from below. These are not gross leanings by any stretch, but the
combination of forces makes the guitar feel perfectly balanced in my
hands. In fact, without the neck heaviness, I'd venture to guess the
guitar would be less comfortable to play as the practical effect would
be the neck feeling to light- not offering enough resistence, etc. I
would think most guys will feel the instrument like I do and it's not
at all clear to me why Jack finds it seriously uncomfortable. It's not
like he plays with his right arm floating or his left hand not in
contact with the neck either. Hey, it's just one of those things:)

www.markkleinhaut.com

[jaz]

Mark Kleinhaut wrote:

> I would think most guys will feel the instrument like I do and it's not
> at all clear to me why Jack finds it seriously uncomfortable.

I've owned a couple of them and when I played with them I was
constantly shifting the neck upward in the middle of songs. I guess I
don't rest my arm on the top of the guitar the say way you do.

By the way, I'm not alone. Many folks have told me they can't play the
PRS and other neck heavy guitars like the melancon chambered teles.

I'm not sure I understand your other comment. How could a guitar that
balances perfectly with no hands be an impediment to anyone's playing?

I've spoken to Jim Soloway, Bill Chapin and Steve Holst who all feel
that an instrument's ability to be perfectly balanced is an absolute
essential and basic ingredient to a guitar's design.

I'd love to own a PRS Hollowbody but I'd rather concentrate on the
music instead of the guitar's balance.

[jaz]

OK, you're right. I was just kidding the whole time.

[Jonathan]

jaz wrote:

> People think an instrument's balance is a subjective thing. It's not.
> This is very easy to prove. Hand the instrument on a pole by it's
> strap. A well balanced instrument will stay in almost any position.

I agree; the instrument is objectively neck-heavy. It sometimes annoys
me a little, but it's not by any means a deal breaker for me. For me,
the guitar's virtues greatly outweigh its shortcomings (balance being
the only one that comes to mind).

It's a really versataile instrument that plays beautifully and is
usable in practically any situation. If you had to pick a single guitar
to live with for life, you'd be hard pressed to do better, IMO.

[gant...@comcast.net]

I've always thought that guitars are a lot like women. One size does
not fit all.

Gantt

[Mark Kleinhaut]

jaz wrote:
>
> I've owned a couple of them and when I played with them I was
> constantly shifting the neck upward in the middle of songs. I guess I
> don't rest my arm on the top of the guitar the say way you do.

I would guess their guitars are very consitent that way

>By the way, I'm not alone. Many folks have told me they can't play the
> PRS and other neck heavy guitars like the melancon chambered teles.
>

My guess is these models start out as solid bodies and then morph into
hollow or chambered instruments without other changes in the design- so
the imbalance creeps into the model vs. something that was designed
from the ground up.

I'm not sure I understand your other comment. How could a guitar that
> balances perfectly with no hands be an impediment to anyone's playing?
>

I didn't say that. I just said it would feel strange and wrong to me.

> I've spoken to Jim Soloway, Bill Chapin and Steve Holst who all feel
> that an instrument's ability to be perfectly balanced is an absolute
> essential and basic ingredient to a guitar's design.

They're probably right, but it somehow manages to be a variable that at
least to me is of utterly no consequence.

> I'd love to own a PRS Hollowbody but I'd rather concentrate on the
> music instead of the guitar's balance.

I agree 100%. I've had beautiful guitars that were uncomfortable for
me to play and I got rid of each and every one of them. Fortunately,
guitars come in more shapes and sizes than virtually any other
instrument in creation, so eventually we can all find something that
fits perfectly.

www.markkleinhaut.com

[jaz]

Jonathan wrote:

> It's a really versataile instrument that plays beautifully and is
> usable in practically any situation. If you had to pick a single guitar
> to live with for life, you'd be hard pressed to do better, IMO.

I agree. It has the sound of a hollowbody but no feedback! The spruce
top archtop version (thicker) which they discontinued had an amazing
jazz tone. I've often wondered if it'd be worth having a special strap
made which 1 LB worth of weights on one side. The guitar's so light
that it would still be lighter than most guitars.

[Derek]

I've got one I am willing to part with if you get serious Jack. Though
for the life of me, I don't know why. This is one of those deals where
I am quite sure I will regret it later if I sell it. It's just I have
had pretty bad GAS for a Sadowsky for the past year, and I really don't
have a reasonable short term plan for coming up with $4k, other than
going back to crack sales.

[Tone]

jaz wrote:
> Mark Kleinhaut wrote:
>
> > I would think most guys will feel the instrument like I do and it's not
> > at all clear to me why Jack finds it seriously uncomfortable.
>
> I've owned a couple of them and when I played with them I was
> constantly shifting the neck upward in the middle of songs. I guess I
> don't rest my arm on the top of the guitar the say way you do.
>
> By the way, I'm not alone. Many folks have told me they can't play the
> PRS and other neck heavy guitars like the melancon chambered teles.
>
> I'm not sure I understand your other comment. How could a guitar that
> balances perfectly with no hands be an impediment to anyone's playing?

Just a guess, but since nobody currently plays with no hands I doubt
that anyone is any better qualified to answer ;)

If a neck heavy guitar feels just right to somebody who rests their arm
on it, and evidently it does for at least 2 people, it seems quite
possible that their same arm resting on a "no hands" guitar could make
it feel like the arm weight was lifting the neck way up all the time,
just by doing their normal thing.

Personally tele style guitars bug me because they are neck heavy. Thats
why Leo added the other cutaway to the strat supposedly. But plenty of
of people swear by tele's, so either they don't know they are always
hitching it up, they do know they are but have bigger fish to fry, or
for some physical reason that doesn't apply to me they really dont need
to.

[gant...@comcast.net]

The balance issue doesn't bother me as much as the distance of the
strings from the top of the guitar. I keep wanting a pickguard to rest
my fingers on. I'm trying to imagine a design for one that won't ruin
the look of the guitar. I could take it to the factory (only about an
hour's drive from here) and see if they'll do it for me... It's funny
- The solid-body PRS that I've been playing for the last 22 years feels
fine. It can't be more than a 1/4" - 3/8" difference, but it makes it
different for me.

Meanwhile, I'm still loving the sound of this thing. It has the maple
top, so I'm sure it's a bit brighter than the spruce top version, but
it works for me... Now I just need a gig to play it on! I thought I
was going to use it on my session today, but the tunes turned out to
need more of a Martin flat-top sound.

Gantt

[rpguitar]

> My guess is these models start out as solid bodies and then morph into
> hollow or chambered instruments without other changes in the design- so
> the imbalance creeps into the model vs. something that was designed
> from the ground up.

Just to comment on this - I have the PRS Book. The archtop and
hollowbody were the creation of Joe Knaggs, one of the well known key
luthier-designers at PRS. They were designed from the ground up in a
sense, but with the admittedly major presumption of having the existing
PRS body shape.

The spruce models like mine have a one piece mahogany slab that is
substantially routed by CNC until it's just back, sides, and bridge
anchor post. This makes it essentially a hollow guitar with just the
bridge area connecting the top to the rest of it.

There is extra thickness to the rims though, which I assume makes up
for some of the body weight lost to routing... but I don't know how it
affects the balance. Which, as is already noted, I consider a
non-issue.

[mr.lurke...@gmail.com]

I wonder if adding a little weight, maybe on the end pin would make it
balance for you.

Do you get the same thing both with and without the piezo? ... I know
those add a little bit of hardware + a 9 volt to that end of the guitar.

[Michael L Kankiewicz]

> >
> > The point is that it's neck heavy. Whether this effects you or not is a
> > variable based on your playing style, your build, whether you playing
> > standing, etc.. If you rest your arm on the top of the guitar or if you
> > play sitting or if you have a pot belly it may not be an issue.
> > People think an instrument's balance is a subjective thing. It's not.
> > This is very easy to prove. Hand the instrument on a pole by it's
> > strap. A well balanced instrument will stay in almost any position. A
> > neck heavy instrument such as the PRS HB or a Warwick bass will
> > immediately rotate in the direction of the neck. Your shoulder is the
> > pivot point when you are wearing the instrument.
> > You can sometimes circumvent the neck dive by wearing a suede strap.

I had a Parker bass that was very bottom heavy from its waist down. That
is, when playing in a sitting position without a strap, the thing wants to
roll off the leg to the right. So annoying, I sold it. From my own
perspective, because I play mostly sitting, this is worse than neck-heavy,
which can be controlled by the right arm. My ES-Artist has the same
problem, but only *very* slightly. I'm really surprised that more guitar
manufr's don't address this balance issue in their design. What's funny
about the Parker is, my Supreme is perfectly balanced.

MK

[jaz]

rpguitar wrote:
> > My guess is these models start out as solid bodies and then morph into
> > hollow or chambered instruments without other changes in the design- so
> > the imbalance creeps into the model vs. something that was designed
> > from the ground up.
>
> Just to comment on this - I have the PRS Book. The archtop and
> hollowbody were the creation of Joe Knaggs, one of the well known key
> luthier-designers at PRS. They were designed from the ground up in a
> sense, but with the admittedly major presumption of having the existing
> PRS body shape.

And that's a thorny concept in my opinion because if they put the strap
button on the neck heel or used a bigger body or a longer upper horn
they could have balanced the instrument. Balancing an instrument is
VERY simple. Ask Jim Soloway or Bill Chapin if they think it's a non
issue to have an instrument that balances properly.

Obviously there are a million playing styles that accomodate a poorly
balanced instrument and I've owned several of them such as the Hamers,
the Heritage 555, a couple of the PRS Hollow/archtop thingys, Godin
Flat 5, etc. Just because players don't have an issue with an
unbalanced instrument doesn't suddenly make the instrument "balanced"
any more than someone who can't hear above 5k making a tele lead pickup
sound mellow.

Anyway, this is the typical usenet thread where folks get all defensive
because they own "said" guitar and it's as if I pointed out that
someone's girlfriend had a hair-lip...

[jaz]

Tone wrote:

> Just a guess, but since nobody currently plays with no hands I doubt
> that anyone is any better qualified to answer ;)
>
> If a neck heavy guitar feels just right to somebody who rests their arm
> on it, and evidently it does for at least 2 people, it seems quite
> possible that their same arm resting on a "no hands" guitar could make
> it feel like the arm weight was lifting the neck way up all the time,
> just by doing their normal thing.
>
> Personally tele style guitars bug me because they are neck heavy. Thats
> why Leo added the other cutaway to the strat supposedly. But plenty of
> of people swear by tele's, so either they don't know they are always
> hitching it up, they do know they are but have bigger fish to fry, or
> for some physical reason that doesn't apply to me they really dont need
> to.

Agreed. It's interesting that I don't have much of a problem with a
typical tele though the bantam weight chambered versions do feel
neck-heavy to me. A typical tele feels slightly neck heavy to me but
wearing a suede strap seems to be enough to balance it. I can take a
certain amount of neck heavyness without having to constantly adjust
but at some point it just becomes a chore and I find it distracting to
be hitching up constantly.

I don't know why folks feel the need to defend their choices. It's all
up to an individual's personal choice though I admit I've certainly
done my share of defending my personal favorite axe(s). I guess it's
just human nature. I like to try to take a step back and look at them
as tools.

As a tool, the PRS hollowbody is a wonderful instrument. Great for
modern (Brunoesque) jazz tones and has a great vibe to it. It's also a
great blues guitar and a pretty good rock guitar. It's got fantastic
upper fret access and is very lightweight. It doesn't have any feedback
problems, yada-yada. It's only drawback is that it's neck heavy. Other
than that, it's a fantastic instrument and I'd still like to find a way
to solve the neck-heavy problem - Whether it's moving the strap button
or something else.

[Joey Goldstein]

Tone wrote:

I haven't been following this thread..but I just saw this...

> Personally tele style guitars bug me because they are neck heavy.

Mine isn't. It balances great on my knee without me touching it.

> Thats
> why Leo added the other cutaway to the strat supposedly.

That doesn't make any sense. If a guitar is neck heavy you'd want to add
more mass to the body, not take it away.
The only reason the 2nd cutaway makes sense if for upper fret access.

> But plenty of
> of people swear by tele's, so either they don't know they are always
> hitching it up, they do know they are but have bigger fish to fry, or
> for some physical reason that doesn't apply to me they really dont need
> to.

Or they're not neck heavy in the 1st place.

My 2 strats are a bit neck heavy. But they're hard-tails without a
whammy, and the whammy probably adds some weight.

I've got a 60's Epi Riviera (335 style) that's body heavy and keeps
slipping off my leg. It sounds great and plays great other than that,
but because of that I don't play it anymore.

--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/joeygoldstein
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

[Joey Goldstein]

Sometimes that be compensated for by moving the strap pin.

[jaz]

Joey Goldstein wrote:
> jaz wrote:
> > They sound great but they're neck heavy and uncomfortable to play
> > standing unless your style includes resting an arm on top of the
> > guitar. Additionally, because they are so light, if you do not rest
> > your arm on the guitar to keep it steady it had a tendency to move as
> > you play. This is a dealbreaker for the way I happen to pick. When
> > Kleinhaut and I got together, it worked fine for him but when I played
> > it the neck dove like an anchor.
> >
>
> Sometimes that be compensated for by moving the strap pin.

That's what my repairman advised but on a high-$$$$ guitar like this
and with my track record of keeping guitars, it would de-value the
thing by several hundred $$$ if I later sold it.

[Joey Goldstein]

Joey Goldstein wrote:
> Tone wrote:
>
> I haven't been following this thread..but I just saw this...
>
>> Personally tele style guitars bug me because they are neck heavy.
>
> Mine isn't. It balances great on my knee without me touching it.
>
>> Thats
>> why Leo added the other cutaway to the strat supposedly.
>
> That doesn't make any sense. If a guitar is neck heavy you'd want to add
> more mass to the body, not take it away.
> The only reason the 2nd cutaway makes sense if for upper fret access.
>
>> But plenty of
>> of people swear by tele's, so either they don't know they are always
>> hitching it up, they do know they are but have bigger fish to fry, or
>> for some physical reason that doesn't apply to me they really dont need
>> to.
>
> Or they're not neck heavy in the 1st place.

BTW
I notice no problems when I'm standing with a strap either.

[jaz]

Joey Goldstein wrote:
> Tone wrote:
>
> I haven't been following this thread..but I just saw this...
>
> > Personally tele style guitars bug me because they are neck heavy.
>
> Mine isn't. It balances great on my knee without me touching it.

Most swamp ash teles are slightly neck heavy. The point of the strat
design wasn't just the extra cutaway, it was extending the upper horn
which shifts the center of gravity. That's why you almost never see a
neck-heavy strat and why Jim Soloway's guitars have the shape that they
do. It's a counterbalance.

[Tone]

On Jan 16, 8:18 pm, "jaz" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote:
> Joey Goldstein wrote:
> > Tone wrote:
>
> > I haven't been following this thread..but I just saw this...
>
> > > Personally tele style guitars bug me because they are neck heavy.
>

> > Mine isn't. It balances great on my knee without me touching it.Most swamp ash teles are slightly neck heavy. The point of the strat

> design wasn't just the extra cutaway, it was extending the upper horn
> which shifts the center of gravity.

Bingo.

[jaz]

Mark Kleinhaut wrote:
> it's not
> at all clear to me why Jack finds it seriously uncomfortable. It's not
> like he plays with his right arm floating or his left hand not in
> contact with the neck either.

P.S.

Your statement about how I play is inaccurate. I don't anchor my left
thumb around the neck, and I don't rest my right arm on the guitar much
of the time. The only thing touching the guitar is my little finger on
the right hand and my left thumb on the back of the neck and the
fingers on the frets. So, the guitar has to be balanced or I'm fighting
it.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Oh yeah??? We'll see about that!:)

www.markkleinhaut.com

[DSedia]

I had a guitar by Matt Artinger which was perfectly balanced. He is
completely onto the idea of making sure the guitar is balanced when
just hanging there by the strap. He told me he puts a counterweight in
the area under the tailpiece. Dan

[Michael L Kankiewicz]

On 15 Jan 2007, gant...@comcast.net wrote:

> the PRS back! I"ve been playing a 1985 PRS Custom 24 for years...
> well, since 1985. It's been one of the most consistant and stable
> guitars I've ever owned.

Hey cool. I bought one too in '86 that I still use. Actually spoke with
Paul on the phone about it a few times before they sent it. In those days
that was no big deal. A few weeks after I got it I called them up because
the g (and only the g) wasn't quite returning exactly to pitch after using
the trem bar. They put Paul on and after demonstrating the problem over
the phone, and trying this and that, he said "Just out of curiosity, are
you like, really fussy or something?"

[rpguitar]

> A few weeks after I got it I called them up because
> the g (and only the g) wasn't quite returning exactly to pitch after using
> the trem bar. They put Paul on and after demonstrating the problem over
> the phone, and trying this and that, he said "Just out of curiosity, are
> you like, really fussy or something?"

Amusing story. And unfortunate too, because 20 years later they still
haven't figured out how to make a trem on a two to three thousand
dollar guitar work better than my $700 Strat. And I get the idea that
they are still arrogant. Fussy!? I like my guitar in tune, thank
you...

I have the same issue on my '05 Custom 22, and if you go to
birdsandmoons.com, you'll see that it's not exactly a unique problem.
Always the G - and always sharp.

Roger

[gant...@comcast.net]

It's mine. Mike has my ES-330, which he's decided is the perfect
guitar for him - archtop sound, two pickups, therefore versatile and
easy to play. He even pitched me a gig to play it on!

Gantt

On Jan 15, 2:05 pm, "ganttm...@comcast.net" <ganttm...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> I have a friend'sPRSMcCarty Hollybody w/ the peizo. He has my 1965
> Gibson ES-330. We're thinking about trading guitars. I don't know
> about the future value of either guitar, given the wackiness of the
> vintage guitar market, but I do know this: I love this guitar! I'm
> hoping my buddy Mike likes my 330, because I already don't want to give
> thePRSback! I"ve been playing a 1985PRSCustom 24 for years...

> well, since 1985. It's been one of the most consistant and stable
> guitars I've ever owned.
>

> So, what's the RMMGJ concensus on the McCartyHollowbody?

[steinbergerstyler]

I played one these in a local store today. Every time I play one I am
amazed at how light, comfortable, versatile and great-sounding they
are.
They are so goddam light it's unbelieveable. I didn't notice any
balance issues - the guitar seemed very comfortable to hold and play,
I played it for a good half an hour. The neck is pretty chunky, which
I usually dislike, but I was having so much fun playing it I didn't
notice!

I can't really think of any reason not to sell one of my other guitars
to buy one...

On Feb 18, 11:29 am, "ganttm...@comcast.net" <ganttm...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> > So, what's the RMMGJ concensus on the McCartyHollowbody?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[gant...@comcast.net]

It's awesome guitar. Between my morning gig, an afternoon jam session
w/ some friends and just sitting on the bed playing by myself it got
played for 5 hours today. If my kids weren't going to wake me up at 6
AM I'd go downstairs, plug it into my Deluxe Reverb and play for
another hour or two.

Gantt

On Feb 18, 8:36 pm, "steinbergerstyler" <steinbergersty...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[gant...@comcast.net]

I just figured out that the battery compartment thumb screws have to
be tight at all times! I was noticing a strange resonance when I
played certain notes unplugged. Turned out to be a loose thumb screw.

Gantt

On Feb 18, 10:14 pm, "ganttm...@comcast.net" <ganttm...@comcast.net>
wrote: