Strange ES 175 buzzes and a pickup question...
Peter
dramatic increase in buzzing and rattling noises coming from the
bridge area. I thought maybe it was the wires inside the guitar
rattling against the wood, or perhaps the bridge itself. After
tightening everything I could, I still get a buzzing sound, which
tends to come through the amp as a slight distortion. It is not the
action, even if I raise the action way beyond what would be
comfortable (I keep the low E at about 5/64), there is still a buzzing
sound.
I was watching Herb Ellis' "Swing Jazz" DVD and, towards the end, he
mentions that he replaces his pickups every once in awhile as they
tend to age and develop a characteristic buzzing sound. I thought that
perhaps this may cure some of the problems I have had. At any rate, it
may be a neat opportunity to replace the tarnished nickel pickups with
a snazzy gold or black faced model. (By the way, Herb does a great job
dispensing some cool tips --- I never knew that you could adjust the
pickups so that each string is in balance with the other, that is, not
one string jumps out in volume compared with the rest).
So....with that in mind, I am now faced with a number of pickup
options. I assume that it will be Gibson's '57 Classic Humbuckers, as
they look just like what is in the guitar right now. However, I also
noticed that there is a "Classic Plus", a "BurstBucker", a "P94T /R",
and a "490". Wow! Anyone out there have any recommendations?
Finally, while I do enjoy tinkering with my guitar, I have never
gotten involved with electronics. Is pickup installation exceedingly
difficult, and best left for a repair person, or can it be tackled
with the right tools and a Dan Erlewine demonstration DVD? The guitar
repair scene in my area is dismal, at best, so I am leaning towards
learning "on the job".
Thanks!!!
Peter
Graham
I don't know if this helps?
My 175 (dates from mid-1970s) had a really annoying buzz for years
somewhere near the pickups but I could never work out what was causing
it. Eventually I noticed that the pickguard was secured by a screw at
the neck end, and secured by a screw to a post below the middle part,
but at the 'bridge' end there was nothing securing it. Since the
'bridge' end of the pickguard was freely resting on the edge of the
plastic pickup surround, I tried inserting a tiny blob of Blu-Tak
between the pickguard and the pickup surround, then pressed the
pickguard down hard on it. (The blu-tak is invisible since it is
entirely underneath the pickguard). This totally killed the buzz,
which must have been caused by the lower end of the pickguard being
free to vibrate against the plastic of the pickup surround.
However I can't say that the buzz was noticeable through an amp, but
it was very loud when playing acoustically.
If your 175 is constructed the same way it might be worth checking
this out before removing pickups!
Graham
charles robinson
"Peter" <peterf...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:f2000fb7-237d-45ac...@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
You might want to check this out (from a recent post by Bruce Helgelson) it
could possibly save you a lot of money:
Another side topic.... I'm sure this has been resolved in other posts,
but....here goes... You know that Tune a matic bridge spring that
rattles
like nuts and bolts on an archtop.... The best fix I have found is:
Remove wire clip.....wrap the wire with scotch tape...trim some tape
off with scissors, and then twist the tape around on the wire, and
reinstall. Works great...cheap too!
Kevin Van Sant
<robins...@comcast.net> wrote in message
<gd7ero$pki$1...@registered.motzarella.org> :
>
>"Peter" <peterf...@mac.com> wrote in message
>news:f2000fb7-237d-45ac...@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>I have a 96' ES 175 which I love very much. Lately there has been a
>> dramatic increase in buzzing and rattling noises coming from the
>> bridge area. I thought maybe it was the wires inside the guitar
>> rattling against the wood, or perhaps the bridge itself. After
>> tightening everything I could, I still get a buzzing sound, which
>> tends to come through the amp as a slight distortion. It is not the
>> action, even if I raise the action way beyond what would be
>> comfortable (I keep the low E at about 5/64), there is still a buzzing
>> sound.
Also check to see if the rattles could be coming from the pots. My L5
never gets the pickup rattles but both pots are susceptible. It's not
that the knob is loose on the post, (I've taken the knobs off and can
still get the rattle) but tapping on it once or twice firmly will
usually take care of it... for a while.
>You might want to check this out (from a recent post by Bruce Helgelson) it
>could possibly save you a lot of money:
>
>Another side topic.... I'm sure this has been resolved in other posts,
>but....here goes... You know that Tune a matic bridge spring that
>rattles
>like nuts and bolts on an archtop.... The best fix I have found is:
>Remove wire clip.....wrap the wire with scotch tape...trim some tape
>off with scissors, and then twist the tape around on the wire, and
>reinstall. Works great...cheap too!
>
I swapped out my TOM bridge for an ebony within the first year I had
my L5, but that had been a source of noise on mine too. When I got
the guitar I took it in to a guy to dress the frets and he volunteered
the solution similar to the one described above but he used thread and
elmers glue.
________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
Check out my brand new CD "Play the Music of Horace Silver"
http://www.kevinvansant.com
mikeo
i think my ES-175 was the most buzz and rattle prone guitar i ever
owned. i spent so much time trying to find those annoying little
vibrations that mysteriously only jump out when playing certain notes,
etc...
For me, the usual culprit was when the metal pickup cover vibrated
aganst the plastic mounting ring. you can usually identify this one
easily by playing to make the rattle occur and then press down firmly
on the pickup to dampen the vibration. I solved that by lining the
inside surface of the mounting ring with strips of black adhesive
felt. problem gone.
The other big issue was with the pickup mounting springs rattling
around their screws. i removed the springs and replaced them with
latex tubing.
As Kevin VS mentioned, I too had the issues with rattling TOM hardware
which was solved when i upgraded to a wooden bridge - the tone of the
guitar improved dramatically too, so it was a double win.
if your buzz is truly electronic in nature, you wont hear any problem
when the amp is off, obviously. are you hearing it when not plugged
in too?
also, a tougher problem that does indeed occur with older ES-175s is
the parallel bracing begins to sag and can actually crack in the area
under the bridge. this could definitely cause a rattle under the
bridge but is a worst case scenario. use a dental-type inspection
mirror to look at the bracing and see if it looks cracked, separated,
or saggy. if you have noticed over the years that you have to keep
adjusting thumbwheels to raise the bridge, your top may be slowly
sagging due to weak or damaged bracing.
if it is a simple pickup buzz, there is most likely no need to replace
the pickup - probably just a loose solder connection or little frayed
wire that is touching something it shouldnt.
But, if you must replace pickups, my favorite replacement on an ES-175
for classic jazz tones and keeping the original look is the Duncan
Alnico II Pro Humbucker with a nickel cover. After much swapping and
auditioning, i ultimately bought these to install into the rest of my
mounted pickup hollowbodies with excellent results. If you choose to
diverge from the nickel covers, my other favorite replacement pickup
is the Kent Armstrong 12-pole adjustable PAF. IMO, either of these
are much better than Gibson '57 Classics, which is what i started
with.
good luck and dont burn your fingers.
Mike
Jonathan Byrd
Another source of buzz I found with my 175 was from an internal wire
touching against the back. I used a hook-shaped piece of clothes
hanger inserted through the f-hole to gather the wires, and I tied
them with a bread tie to keep them together, and away from the back
and sides.
Mark Guest
wrote:
I've had a bad pot causing a rattle. The shaft rattles inside the pot.
Only solution is to replace it (or drop carpenters glue into the
pot... ;-)
All the best,
Mark Guest
Jazz Guitar
www.myspace.com/markguest
Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do
without."
Confucius (c.551-479 BC)
Peter
pickups for awhile and try and resolve the rattling problem as it may
be one of the items you mentioned. Mike --- that was a post par
excellence, and I have printed it out for future reference. It is
comforting to know that I am not alone with the ES 175 mysterious
buzzing and rattling problems. I guess it is just the nature of the
beast.
Thanks again for all of the insightful responses.
By the way, Mike, what did you mean by "don't burn your fingers"? Just
curious...
Peter
vtx...@gmail.com
Can't answer the buzzing sound, but I have a 2003 (I think that's the
year) 175 and haven't hit this yet. Could you just put a little foam
or rubber or felt ring around the inside of the pickup, you know in
the surround?
As for pickup choices, of all the Gibson's I've had (335, 135, 175,
and a couple of other semi-hollows and solids), the 57 Classics have
sounded best in the 175. I didn't like them as much in the other
guitars; I preferred SD 59 PAFs for most every other humbucker
equipped guitar, but wouldn't think of changing out the Classics in my
175. Just my opinion.
Greg
tonyde...@gmail.com
Seymour Duncan (jazz pick-up) SH-2 pick-ups. Have a good repairman
insert it for you. Screwing in the springs can be tedious. Possible
that rattling is due to your pick-up springs faulting. Have some one
check your neck for bowing and bridge position. This distortion can be
due to intonation problems or a combination of problems.
-TD
mikeo
>
> By the way, Mike, what did you mean by "don't burn your fingers"? Just
> curious...
>
> Peter
for years, on discussion boards such as this one, whenever i share any
wiring or soldering advice, i always throw in the little tagline,
"dont burn your fingers". i've burnt myself more times than i can
count over the years doing all my own custom wiring, pickup swaps, wax
potting pickups, etc...
When i give tube amp advice, i always preface with "tube amps are
dangerous, dont get killed".
once i lost the skin off two fingertips letting them get too close to
a spinning drill chuck. lost sensation for many weeks. no fun.
yuri...@yahoo.com.br
DanielleOM
> I'm having the same problem on my 175! But as Mikeo said, my buzzing problem is comming from the bridge pickup and a little from the neck pickup. I solved it putting together several layers of electrical insulation tape in a way the glue side keeps hidden and put it between the pu metal and the plastic pu frame. It really stopped the buzzing.
someone would have come up with a better mounting scheme for these
pickups. It just seems the whole mounting arrangement is fundamentally
flawed. Often wonder if someone does a mounting ring with a slightly
larger opening with room for a soft grommet around the ring opening.
Danielle
David J. Littleboy
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Tim McNamara
wrote:
dogear P90 the pickup was basically screwed drectly to the top. When
the humbucker came along the mounting design was kind of Rube Goldberg
but it has persisted for 60 years until Eddie Van Halen screwed his down
directly to the wood- going back to the P90 mounting. Seems like some
thought could go into revamping humbucker mounting design to eliminate
the rattles, etc. But would guitar players buy it? We are amazingly
hidebound and conservative and have a number of silly beliefs about what
does and doesn't affect tone.
rpjazzguitar
DanielleOM
> I've had a bunch of guitars with the usual humbucker mounting and I can't recall any of them buzzing. I'd guess that it's a flaw in that particular pickup, not the concept.
listened while playing different notes up and down the neck. I find
these types of things are intermittent in nature and vary depending on
frequency or even a combination of notes played at the same time. I
find when these buzzes and rattles are taken care of the guitar will
sound better even for other notes where the buzzing rattling was not
obvious.
Perhaps the original ones did not buzz? I have certainly heard of many
people jamming cardstock and other things between the pickup and the
mounting ring to stop buzzing / rattling in the mount. Perhaps there is
a certain tolerance for the pickup outer dimensions and the pickup ring
opening that needs to be maintained, that is not being adhered to.
Anyone try wooden mounting rings? Anyone notice any difference in
mounting ring construction over the years?
Both of my Eastman guitars with full size humbuckers rattled or buzzed
in the mounts when I got them. Perhaps a full size humbucker in a
responsive top is going to more susceptible to this type of problem? I
minimized a lot by putting stuffing sponge, soft vinyl from gloves, in
the cavity between the pickup and the ring. I tried making a gasket
from an old soft leather glove that I put under one mounting ring. It
might have helped but I found it difficult to make, assemble, and line
up properly. The leather gasket wanted to fall in the mounting hole
when I was trying to assemble. I might have loose screw on one of the
mounting rings. There really is not much material for the screw to grab
on to and the wood from the top is easily stripped out.
Danielle
Leo
long tie wrap around the pickup cover (parallel to the surface) before
putting the element back into the mounting ring, so it fixates the
pickup within the mounting ring.
Since a pickup is basically just a block of metal that is hanging down
from two screws, with just the springs on those screws to keep it from
swinging (as in: move to and fro...) I think a lot of rattles can be
solved this way.
Leo
charlieguitar
Charlie
charlieguitar
Charlie
rpjazzguitar
Otherwise, the only problem I can recall was with my D'Angelico blowout EXDC. I kept hitting the pickup with my pick and getting a loud click. My solution was putting a strip of electrical tape on the pickup. I think the proper solution was "potting" it by submerging it in hot paraffin, but I didn't do that. Not sure why the click has only been a problem with that guitar.