Clip wars...nothing but clip wars...
DWamble
when a player of Jack's caliber puts up a video
like he did of Donna Lee. For one, I can't fathom
playing some of the shit he played on there. Besides,
he even said, "It's just me jamming with a pre-recorded
track!" Nothing of musical greatness can ever come
from a guitar player and a tape. Sorry.
But put Jack in a room with some players, and I bet
all of us would smile at the results. Then again,
maybe everyone's just jealous of his good looks!
Speaking of clips, though...a friend just emailed me
this, and I laughed out loud. I was only on this gig
for a couple of weeks, and I can't believe someone
videotaped it. Argh. Talk about sticking out like a
sore thumb!
http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/millennium/artist_detail.cfm?artist_id=NORAHJONES
oasysco
I liked it.
Greg
oasysco
don't know; she'd doesn't hook me. Good musicianship and songwriting fi
yuo liek thta sort of thing. Still, for you to play with her and play
that style; that's cool. I'm listeningto the whole concert, so maybe
she'll grow on me.
I was taken aback by how very full the 4 of you sound with nothing but
plain guitar sounds, plain piano, bass, drums - no synths, strings,
bkup vocalists. All of you were very good in your interplay - and
that's what it's really about. You didn't stick out like a sore thumb
but had you hammed it up, you would have.
BTW, got a chord chart of Don't know why? I liked what you played.
Thanks,
Greg
pataud
[snip]
>
> Speaking of clips, though...a friend just emailed me
> this, and I laughed out loud. I was only on this gig
> for a couple of weeks, and I can't believe someone
> videotaped it. Argh. Talk about sticking out like a
> sore thumb!
>
> http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/millennium/artist_detail.cfm?artist_id=NORAHJONES
>
I'm curious what type of guitar you played on that gig?
I don't mean what scale length, string type, solid wood versus plywood
or any other minutiae that is usually discussed here.
Just that the video is grainy enough that I can't tell archtop from dobro :)
Nice work by the way. Looked like a fun gig.
Jack A. Zucker
vocabulary to do those soulful, bb-king inspired lines and then on another
tune of his, he's doing ornette-inspired stuff with just amazing band
interplay.
I take me hat off to you, man. Not only do you tell it like it is, but you
play it like it is too.
Jaz
"DWamble" <dougw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110066364.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Elektrik Hendrik
from a guitar player and a tape. Sorry.
I believe some of the best guitar solos ever, regardless of style have been
a guitar player overdubbing to a pre-recorded backing track....Steely Dan
comes to mind.
DWamble
been
a guitar player overdubbing to a pre-recorded backing track....Steely
Dan
comes to mind."
You know what? I stand corrected. I totally agree. Hell, EVH's solo
on "Beat It" was overdubbed and that shit was great. I revise my
initial statement and restrict it to jazz.
DWamble
good musicians. I just felt out of place. They're all young,
thin, and hip and play subduded. I'm old, fat, unhip and
I grunt and snort when I play! ;-)
That guitar is my main axe, a 1955 Gretsch Constellation. I just
got a twin thats only a few serial numbers apart. I need to photo
them together...they look really great side by side!
Bill Williams
recordings I had checked out.
Despite your misgivings, to me it's a classic live performance - nice
hearing your playing in this context.
It's funny about the age difference thing - these days I can find
myself playing with guys almost a third of my age but it's all part of
the game, I guess.
Bill Wiliams
Lou Fiorillo
kind of weird guitar player fetish.
charles robinson
submission series was the fact that in addition to many all of the jazz
players here there a quite a few great blues players also. Doug seems to
have everything covered.
Charlie
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:58qdnZdOkd6...@adelphia.com...
Elektrik Hendrik
clip? There's some awesome pure sounds there...
tomb...@jhu.edu
Thanks for sharing.
PS: I remember that old
Bill Murray parody too.
I thought I was the only one.
DWamble
kind of weird guitar player fetish."
Neither is Robbie McIntosh, their newest guitar player. I was really
just kidding, though. Adam is cool, though. And I don't know Robbie,
but he plays great.
DWamble
Thanks. THat's my trusty '55 Gretsch Constellation.
Back then, I think I was still using a TraceAcoustic
amp, but I've switched to the AER Compact 60 and
it's by far the best I've ever heard.
I use the best piezo out there, in my opinion, for
archtops, The David Gage Realist. He's only made a
couple of them for guitars, but they rock. In addition,
I have this cool Sennheiser condenser that I blend
into the amp with the pickup.
pmfan57
And I think Metheny's solo's in the PMG are often laid down like that.
Those are gems.
DWamble
pmfan57 wrote:
>
> And I think Metheny's solo's in the PMG are often laid down like
that.
> Those are gems.
True enough. But again, I was thinking about
jazz when I wrote what I did. Outside that
realm, I agree, Pat does some great solos
that are overdubbed.
juru...@aol.com
on "Beat It" was overdubbed and that shit was great. I revise my
initial statement and restrict it to jazz.
In general you're probably right, but then there's Conversations With
Myself, and a similar thing that Jim Hall did, but I don't remember the
name.
But maybe just doing it makes it different from jazz in a sense - even
if you're aware of the 'ghost' track the first time and try to interact
with what you'll be playing, and same with the second track, you're
still doing it over time, making it sort of like composition.
Clif
Mike C.
You are kidding, right? Metheny doesn't play jazz? I think Roy Haynes,
Ornette Coleman, Michael Brecker, Charlie Haden, Billy Higgins, Chick
Corea, Gary Burton, Dave Holland, Jack Dejohnette, Dewey Redman,
Herbie Hancock, Paul Bley, jaco pastorius, Bob Moses, etc. would
disagree.
bob r
Funki...@MSN.com wrote on 3/6/05 9:30 PM:
I believe he's speaking in particular reference to the Pat Metheny Group
records, not saying that Pat Metheny doesn't/can't play jazz.
--
Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD, "Watch This!", available at:
http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
DWamble
bob r wrote:
>
> I believe he's speaking in particular reference to the Pat Metheny
Group
> records, not saying that Pat Metheny doesn't/can't play jazz.
Exactly. I disagree with Pat when he says that jazz is
just a "process". I think that it's pretty hard to play
jazz music when overdubbing. Jazz music from its inception
has been about live communication. Obviously, Pat has made
a number of records like this and is great at it.
His defenders are pretty quick on the draw though, which
always makes me wonder...
pmfan57
There have been some pretty nice overdubbed jazz performances.
Conversations with Myself, Further Conversations, and New Conversations
are all great. Joe Pass did some material where he recorded a backing
track and soloed over it.
Also, if the same person is laying down the track with an eye towards
doing something on the second part, there is communication of a sort
(with himself). I guess the Evans is the best example since he was
thinking ahead (and behind at the same time for the second track when
he used three tracks on the first album).
charles robinson
pardoned when it comes to things like repairing blown intros, endings,
interludes,etc. just because they save time. But for jazz solos,never (IMO).
Charlie
"DWamble" <dougw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110163929.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
charles robinson
prfan57s post I realized that he is right, there are times when it is
acceptable. I had been thinking in the more general context of someone
changing a solo that was played with a group. I guess the bottom line is
that there is nothing having to do with music that is engaved in stone.
Charlie
"charles robinson" <robins...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pIidnRRg4eL...@comcast.com...
charles robinson
Diorio's first release on Spitball', Bill Connor's overdubbed efforts and
Jimmy Raney's Solo album.
Charlie
"pmfan57" <jwra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1110164809.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
bob r
dougw...@gmail.com wrote on 3/6/05 9:52 PM:
>
> bob r wrote:
>>
>> I believe he's speaking in particular reference to the Pat Metheny
> Group
>> records, not saying that Pat Metheny doesn't/can't play jazz.
>
> Exactly. I disagree with Pat when he says that jazz is
> just a "process". I think that it's pretty hard to play
> jazz music when overdubbing.
It is pretty hard. Whether it's *possible* or not depends on your personal
definition of "jazz", I guess.
> Jazz music from its inception has been about live communication.
If by "live communication" you mean interaction between players, true, but
then again, no other way was possible at jazz's inception. Jazz has changed
in other ways with the times; maybe this could be another way.
> Obviously, Pat has made a number of records like this and is great at it.
Yup. An extremely talented guy, whatever the perceived genre.
> His defenders are pretty quick on the draw though, which
> always makes me wonder...
There are quick-draw artists of all persuasions out here in cyberbabble
land.
bob r
robins...@comcast.net wrote on 3/6/05 10:28 PM:
> I thought I was right with my opinion on overdubbing solos but after reading
> prfan57s post I realized that he is right, there are times when it is
> acceptable. I had been thinking in the more general context of someone
> changing a solo that was played with a group. I guess the bottom line is
> that there is nothing having to do with music that is engaved in stone.
A recording is not always intended to be representative of a live
performance. Sometimes it's just about someone realizing a musical idea in
the way they think is best. The bottom line for me is whether the music I
hear from the recording is good.
Gerry
DWamble <dougw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Exactly. I disagree with Pat when he says that jazz is
> just a "process". I think that it's pretty hard to play
> jazz music when overdubbing. Jazz music from its inception
> has been about live communication. Obviously, Pat has made
> a number of records like this and is great at it.
It's a curiousity. I love JImmy Raney in almost all settings; but the
ones (the Master?) in which he overdubs and accompanies himself leave
me cold. At least one of those Jimmy's clearly had no regard for what
the other Jimmy was doing--or rather would be doing.
Almost all overdubbing, of this variety, leaves me cold. Simply doing
overdubbing on arrangments to produce second and third lines and that
sort of stuff makes little real difference either way from a "dynamic"
standpoint to my ears.
--
The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who
are undecided.
-- Casey Stengel
Gerry
<robins...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I think that in these days of high studio costs overdubs or punch ins can be
> pardoned when it comes to things like repairing blown intros, endings,
> interludes,etc. just because they save time. But for jazz solos,never (IMO).
I think anything can be pardoned if it makes no substantive difference
to the dynamic of the music. All of what you mention qualifies in this
regard.
--
The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers,
immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people.
-- Noam Chomsky
Joe Finn
> It's really funny to see the dickpile that happens
> when a player of Jack's caliber puts up a video
> like he did of Donna Lee. For one, I can't fathom
> playing some of the shit he played on there. Besides,
> he even said, "It's just me jamming with a pre-recorded
> from a guitar player and a tape. Sorry.
I didn't have time to listen to anything but a select few of the recent
clips.
Life is short.
I agree that the best solo in the history of the world would be ruined by a
pre recorded background.
For the life of me I can't figure out why players with the obvious facility
of Zucker and Bornman are not performing and recording with their fellow
musicians. To my way of thinking this makes no sense. The best shadow boxer
in the world is only a shadow boxer.
.....joe
--
Visit me on the web www.joefinn.net
charles robinson
quite figure out what he was doing. It wasn't accompaniament in the usual
sense but rather the playing of single note lines on what sounds like at
least two more tracks in a kind of contrupuntal fashion.The overall effect
was not bad but still left me wondering what exactly was happening.
Charlie
"Gerry" <add...@domain.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:060320052021286862%add...@domain.com.invalid...
Tom Walls
dougw...@gmail.com says...
> It's really funny to see the dickpile that happens
> when a player of Jack's caliber puts up a video
> like he did of Donna Lee. For one, I can't fathom
> playing some of the shit he played on there. Besides,
> he even said, "It's just me jamming with a pre-recorded
> track!" Nothing of musical greatness can ever come
> from a guitar player and a tape. Sorry.
>
> all of us would smile at the results. Then again,
> maybe everyone's just jealous of his good looks!
>
> Speaking of clips, though...a friend just emailed me
> this, and I laughed out loud. I was only on this gig
> for a couple of weeks, and I can't believe someone
> videotaped it. Argh. Talk about sticking out like a
> sore thumb!
>
> http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/millennium/artist_detail.cfm?artist_id=NORAHJONES
>
>
You took Nora someplace I've never heard her go before. Sounded good.
She should court a little more tension in her music.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
JMK
IF it's the same Robbie McIntosh I'm thinking of....he
used to be in the Pretenders circa 1983. Big hit:
"Middle of the Road."
JMK
DWamble
JMK wrote:>
> IF it's the same Robbie McIntosh I'm thinking of....he
> used to be in the Pretenders circa 1983. Big hit:
> "Middle of the Road."
That's him. He replaced their original guitarist,
James Honeyman-Scott, who I thought was really
great.
Formerly Sideways
DWamble wrote:
>
> That's him. He replaced their original guitarist,
> James Honeyman-Scott, who I thought was really
> great.
Indeed, along with Mark Knopfler, Honeyman-Scott represented one of the
precious few bright spots in '80's rock guitar. I saw the Pretenders
live in '81 and he was just as impressive live...melodic, inventive
Brit/jangle-pop with a heavy edge.
DWamble
Kurt Shapiro
Norah's recording. ;-)
I didn't sit through the whole video, but I sat through it long enough to
say to myself:
1. The playing and style you were doing fit Norah's thing perfectly to my
ear. It was relaxed, low-ego, rootsy playing.
2. I heard what I thought was a clam on the first tune at about 1:49. The
fact that after two weeks on the gig you still had a very occasional clam,
like maybe one per tune, doesn't make me feel like I'm hopeless. If I could
get myself down to 3 or 4 times your clam frequency after two weeks on any
gig, I'd be mighty happy.
3. The fact that you were willing to point us to this, especially being at
your level and stage in your career, increases my respect for you. It's a
real lesson for me to see how someone at your level handles a situation
where they're not completely comfortable; there's stuff in there that I can
use, like how to handle myself when I'm on someone's gig and not competely
confident on the material. It makes someone at my stage feel good to know
that being a top-level pro ain't always about being perfect. If you can
play with Norah Jones and still make a mistake, then maybe there's hope for
me yet.
4. It's a great lesson in not overplaying.
Thanks, Doug.
"DWamble" <dougw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110066364.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Richard Bornman
"DWamble" <dougw...@gmail.com> wrote :
> Knopfler is one of my favorites. His sound kills me.
Me too. Wonderful taste and natural shape to his solos.
The other rock gtr player that kills me is Brian May.
For all the same reasons as Knopfler.
bob r
richard...@ozemail.com.au wrote on 3/7/05 7:31 PM:
The very first time I heard "Sultans of Swing" was on the car radio, driving
home from a gig. I had to pull over; Knopfler's playing was that compelling.
Knopfler and May - no recycled blooz wank there.
Richard Bornman
"bob r" <Someo...@whatever.com> wrote:
> Knopfler and May - no recycled blooz wank there.
Get this:
One of my few students bought 2 tickets to
Knopfler's show which happens next month.
EXpensive seats.
His "sweetie" isn't that big on MK, so he
says: why dont you come with me, she
doesnt appreciate MK like you!!
looking fwd to the show!
bob r
richard...@ozemail.com.au wrote on 3/7/05 8:57 PM:
Now THAT'S a good student!
JMK
Honeyman-Scott was the ultimate team player - supportive,
uplifting, and giving the song that edge. Chrissy Hynde has a
knack for finding good guitarists. She said once that her method
for finding a guitar player is pretty simple - find two guys at a
party who are talking about guitar gear and choose the one she
believes the most.
JMK
JMK
May is great. That solo in "Someone To Love" is gorgeous.
I like Knopfler but his trademark sound is too close to my true
guitar hero (Richard Thompson) that I can't fully appreciate his
talents. My fault, I know.
JMK
DWamble
Kurt Shapiro wrote:
> 2. I heard what I thought was a clam on the first tune at about
1:49. The
> fact that after two weeks on the gig you still had a very occasional
clam,
Well, actually, this was my first gig with Norah. We had
rehearsed a bit before, and I sat in on a gig at Makor,
but this was gig #1. My entire distinguished tenure with
her was two weeks in total!
The clams are probably why I'm not in the band today!
Playing that kind of stuff is like chamber music for
me. I've been working on all this Bach recently; to
clean up my left hand technique. Shit is so hard to
play precisely. Norah didn't seem to like people to
take a bunch of chances, because it didn't allow her
to be the main source of variation. She never sang
a song the same way twice, something that I love
about her. Her piano shit was always different, and
back then, she wanted more consistency underneath her,
which is tough for me.
That has all changed, though. I saw a DVD of her recently,
some live shit. She's a totally different performer, more
confident, and she allows her musicians to stretch out and
mix things up a lot. I predict she'll turn into a Joni
Mitchell-level artist before much longer. She's just got
a great vibe about her, and the more she grows, the better
it will get.
All in all, though, not a good gig for me. I'm just too
much of a control freak at this point not to be a band-
leader most of the time.
icarusi
Also did a stint with McCartney. He's a big Beatles fan so knows all the old
tunes as well as Macca's newer stuff. Honeyman-Scott's solo on 'Kid' is a
classic. If you like that stuff you'll probably like Jim Cregan and Tim
Renwick. Cregan did the solo on Cockney Rebel's 'Come up and See Me' and
Renwick did the electric solo on 'Year of The Cat'.
Icarusi
--
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