Re: This week's No 1 selling jazz cd
Neal
> Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> Album," ... entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
And Alison Krauss + Union Station, Lonely Runs Both Ways, debuted at 29.
And U2 at #1. Hilary Duff is still on the charts after 9 weeks at #21. And
Jessica Simpson's holiday album debuted at 16. Guess all those are better
than G.
Lord Valve
sum1luvsu wrote:
> Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> certified gold by the RIAA.
>
> http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
Kenny G plays jazz?
Damn, I musta missed something somewhere...when did he
start doing that?
I thought he was a really good elevator music specialist.
I guess I need to listen to the radio more...
Lord Valve
Ivory Smasher
Neal
> Ain't JEALOUSY? Oh come on now.
I'll go on record: I'd love to have a tenth of G's popularity. I wouldn't
sacrifice my musical integrity to do it, though.
sum1luvsu
sum1luvsu
> sum1luvsu wrote:
>
> > Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> > Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> > Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> > scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> > certified gold by the RIAA.
> >
> > http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
>
>
> Kenny G plays jazz?
>
> Damn, I musta missed something somewhere...when did he
> start doing that?
Been doin' it all along, since he started out with the Jeff Lorber
Fusion.
There's a place for you to start. Seems like you've missed a lot over
the last 20-30 years.
Welcome back.
ansermetniac
Winchester Cathedral was a #1 Billboard hit. So was Honey by Bobby
Goldsboro, among others.
There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy. When G.
crossed paths with Brecker, he said to Michael that he never took a
lesson. I guess G's best category on Jeopardy would be "The Fuckin'
Obvious"
Abbedd
______________
E.A.F.E.
"Please judge me by the enemies I make"
FDR
DaveG
> On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 00:22:07 +0000, DaveG <DG@the_controls.net> wrote:
>>ansermetniac wrote:
>>>On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 23:24:03 +0000, DaveG <DG@the_controls.net> wrote:
>>>>sum1luvsu wrote:
>>>>>Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
>>>>>Album,"
>>>>pile of shite.
>>>>you know it,we all know it.
>>>What do you expect? Oliver and Dolphy?
>>Is this some kind of tautology or rhetorical thing??
> It means that with Kenny G you should expect shit and with Oliver and
> Dolphy you should expect music. Listening to Straight ahead right now
Remember "Blues and the Abstract Truth"??
--
ansermetniac
>ansermetniac wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 23:24:03 +0000, DaveG <DG@the_controls.net> wrote:
>
>>>sum1luvsu wrote:
>
>>>>Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
>>>>Album,"
>
>>>pile of shite.
>>>you know it,we all know it.
>
>> What do you expect? Oliver and Dolphy?
>
>Is this some kind of tautology or rhetorical thing??
It means that with Kenny G you should expect shit and with Oliver and
Dolphy you should expect music. Listening to Straight ahead right now
Abbedd
sum1luvsu
than 8 hours of noodling and havin' a wank on the sax-o-phone.
Don't delay - get yours today!
sum1luvsu
> On 2 Dec 2004 14:55:48 -0800, suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote:
>
> >Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> >Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> >Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> >scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> >certified gold by the RIAA.
> >
> >http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
>
> Winchester Cathedral was a #1 Billboard hit. So was Honey by Bobby
> Goldsboro, among others.
>
> There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
> hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy.
I'm afraid that's all it is.
He's got the money and the chicks, and everyone else is livin'
gig-to-mouth wishing they had just a little of what the G-man's got.
a.m.
"Pat Smith" <pj...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ZeOrd.27623$zx1....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Why are all the jazz folk so worried about Kenny G? If you don't like
> him, don't buy his CDs. If you don't like that he is popular and you
> aren't, then play some music that people want to hear (whatever that may
> be). Whatever it is about him the masses love him, think about the most
> popular things around and Kenny G seems pretty insignificant. When Garth
> Brooks was at his most popular his CDs outsold ALL of jazz and classical
> combined...go figure.
>
heh. years ago I played a show with an act opening for Clint
Black...afterwards we went basically next door on the same property where
George Benson was playing in a Theatre and got in backstage. We had hooked
up with their crew earlier in the day at soundcheck. Watching Benson from
the wings he made a comment about the huge crowd watching Garth Brooks
playing next door...although it was Clint Black - close enough. Had to be
there it was amusing.
Hark! The Herald Angels Sing guitar mp3 at:
http://tinyurl.com/62z86
Steve Carras
>
> >Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> >Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> >Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> >scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> >certified gold by the RIAA.
> >
> >http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
>
> Winchester Cathedral was a #1 Billboard hit. So was Honey by Bobby
> Goldsboro, among others.
>
Exavctly--the point of sum,1 and moi. Look at the WWII charts when
swing was kin g and balladsby the sweet bnads also werte popular!
(CAN"T TAKER MY EYES.. by Frankie Valli' on as I speak. Even Sinatra
recorded it.)
> There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
> hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy. When G.
> crossed paths with Brecker, he said to Michael that he never took a
> lesson. I guess G's best category on Jeopardy would be "The Fuckin'
> Obvious"
>
> Abbedd
Ain't JEALOUSY? Oh come on now.
DaveG
> Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> Album,"
pile of shite.
sum1luvsu
> On 2 Dec 2004 19:57:03 -0800, suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote:
>
> >ansermetniac <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<it7vq0h20c2i0tuaf...@4ax.com>...
> >> On 2 Dec 2004 14:55:48 -0800, suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> >> >Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> >> >Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> >> >scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> >> >certified gold by the RIAA.
> >> >
> >> >http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
> >>
> >> Winchester Cathedral was a #1 Billboard hit. So was Honey by Bobby
> >> Goldsboro, among others.
> >>
> >> There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
> >> hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy.
> >
> >I'm afraid that's all it is.
>
> they do and not how much cash they have.
Did Mr G tell you that he doesn't care about what he does? Or maybe
you read that in an interview somewhere?
> They could easily play rock
> and make the money.
Good for them. They play what they want and have a great time.
End of story.
They should stop bitching about people who play what they like AND
make money.
>
> I would never put my name on Kenny G's cds for any amount of money.
You'd write gushing thank you's in the liner notes if it paid for your
child's education or your wife's heart surgery.
Give us a break.
sgo...@changethisparttohardbat.com
Scott
In rec.music.bluenote sum1luvsu <suml...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
: Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
Zoot
>
> > Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> > Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> > Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> > scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> > certified gold by the RIAA.
> >
> > http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
>
>
> Kenny G plays jazz?
nope
>
> Damn, I musta missed something somewhere...when did he
> start doing that?
dint
> I thought he was a really good elevator music specialist.
> I guess I need to listen to the radio more...
no you don't
> Lord Valve
> Ivory Smasher
Pat Smith
ansermetniac
What do you expect? Oliver and Dolphy?
Abbedd
a.m.
"Neal" <nea...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:opsieo7a...@news.individual.net...
> On 2 Dec 2004 14:55:48 -0800, sum1luvsu <suml...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> > Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> > Album," ... entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
>
> And Alison Krauss + Union Station, Lonely Runs Both Ways, debuted at 29.
I'll tell you this - the above is a GRRREAT! sounding album.
ansermetniac
>ansermetniac <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<it7vq0h20c2i0tuaf...@4ax.com>...
>> On 2 Dec 2004 14:55:48 -0800, suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote:
>>
>> >Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
>> >Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
>> >Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
>> >scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
>> >certified gold by the RIAA.
>> >
>> >http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
>>
>> Winchester Cathedral was a #1 Billboard hit. So was Honey by Bobby
>> Goldsboro, among others.
>>
>> There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
>> hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy.
>
>I'm afraid that's all it is.
I'm afraid that most jazz players are musicians. They care about what
they do and not how much cash they have.They could easily play rock
and make the money. They , of course, would do it much better too.
I would never put my name on Kenny G's cds for any amount of money. I
am sure you would, sum1
Abbedd
>
>He's got the money and the chicks, and everyone else is livin'
>gig-to-mouth wishing they had just a little of what the G-man's got.
______________
ansermetniac
wrote:
Her version of The Beatles I will is superb
Abbedd
DaveG
> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 23:24:03 +0000, DaveG <DG@the_controls.net> wrote:
>>sum1luvsu wrote:
>>>Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
>>>Album,"
>>pile of shite.
>>you know it,we all know it.
> What do you expect? Oliver and Dolphy?
Is this some kind of tautology or rhetorical thing??
--
ansermetniac
>ansermetniac wrote:
>> Yes I do. How about Screamin The Blues
>
>Fantastic album,isn't that the recording containing the track "The Drive" ??
Yes. More Blues and the Abstract Truth subs Phil Woods for Dolphy.
Adds Thad Jones and Ben Webster
kurt
> On 2 Dec 2004 19:57:03 -0800, suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote:
>
> >ansermetniac <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<it7vq0h20c2i0tuaf...@4ax.com>...
> >> On 2 Dec 2004 14:55:48 -0800, suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> >> >Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> >> >Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> >> >scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> >> >certified gold by the RIAA.
> >> >
> >> >http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
> >>
> >> Winchester Cathedral was a #1 Billboard hit. So was Honey by Bobby
> >> Goldsboro, among others.
> >>
> >> There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
> >> hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy.
> >
> >I'm afraid that's all it is.
>
> I'm afraid that most jazz players are musicians. They care about what
> they do and not how much cash they have.They could easily play rock
> and make the money. They , of course, would do it much better too.
I am reminded of an interview with John Bon Jovi at the height of their
popularity. "Writing songs with mass appeal is a lot tougher than it would
seem. You think you can do it? Let's see you do it." He was responding to
folks dismissing their music as fluff that anyone could compose.
Kurt
Piotr Michalowski
I already have mine, and while it is uneven, it is a revelation to
anyone who has ears and cares about history. The early trio dates rate
among the best Ayler on record and the one preserved performance with
Cecil Taylor gives us a glimpse of the excitement that band generated at
the time. Then there is the set from Coltrane's funeral that provided
hope to those who were in despair...
One can like this kind of music or dislike it, but anyone serious about
the history of improvised music has to take Ayler into account, as he
was unique and added a completely new dimension to the music, something
acknowledged by masters such as John Coltrane, Dewey Redman, Peter
Brotzman, Frank Lowe, and many others. We could not imagine Ken
Vandermark or Mats Gustafsson today without Ayler. You have obviously
not listened to him, and certainly not to this set, and yet you find it
so easy to make offensive comments just to rile people up, as you always
do. Why else bring up what's his name and then disparage musicians who
did not take the easy route, working on their hair rather than their tone.
The best thing to do is to ignore this. Can you imagine a literary
group in which all discussion would be interrupted every five minutes by
someone who wants to claim that Doctorov is a literary wanker, but that
anyone on the best seller list is a genius? Give it a rest.
I know very musical people who cannot take Ayler, thinking of him as
"too primitive." Others, like myself, are fascinated by the visceral,
elemental factors in his playing. One could debate that, rather than be
baited by this silliness and get bogged down once again in insults back
and forth about someone who is laughing all the way to the bank. Good
for him, but there is really nothing there to debate.
Unknown
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somebody has to defend Kenny G, so I'll do it.
It's just too easy for jazz musicians to hate Kenny G.
What really doesn't make sense to me is this: why we are so quick to
attack Kenny G, yet we completely ignore many other pop musicians
whose pretenses are in the same vein as Kenny G's?
Kenny G is making a living -- a great living -- playing music. A part
of making a great living playing music is publicity, hype, PR,
bullshit, whatever you want to call it.
For some reason, we jazz musicians don't bristle at all when country
star X, or rapper Y or rock singer Z puts out some ridiculously smarmy
song or absurd statement in the press, but let Kenny G do it and we
get our panties in a terrible wad.
To tell the truth, I find that I am really quite jealous of the living
Kenny G makes. I wonder if much of the open hatred for him isn't at
least partially rooted in jealousy of the success he has had.
It seems to me that all this anger is counter productive for us, as it
distracts us from the more important things in life. Why don't we all
just give Kenny G the same treatment we give to other musicians we
don't like -- an indifferent yawn -- and then get back to practicing.
Tim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And here's a wonderfully amusing response to my post from Mark
Kleinhaut:
On 14 Nov 2002 09:46:25 -0600, "Mark Kleinhaut"
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Tim, I agree with you. Here's the acid test in my book. If G-man
called any of us up today and said he was putting a tour together and
offering you $200K annual salary plus benifits, what would you say?
If you would turn him down based on artistic/ethics or whatever,
fine, then rant and diss him till the cows come home. OTOH, if you'd
take that gig then STFU! (that's shut the fuck up).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://timberens.com
A Website for Guitarists
Learn something...Have some fun
timb at erinet dot com
DaveG
>>ansermetniac wrote:
>>>>>>sum1luvsu wrote:
> Yes I do. How about Screamin The Blues
Fantastic album,isn't that the recording containing the track "The Drive" ??
--
ansermetniac
Yes I do. How about Screamin The Blues
Abbedd
Lord Valve
sum1luvsu wrote:
I never went anywhere, son.
Elevator music. By all means, like it if you must.
But don't try to shit anyone about it. Especially
not me.
Lord Valve
Musician
ansermetniac
wrote:
>like it if you must.
>But don't try to shit anyone about it.
Touche
MBR
> Fusion.
He was pretty mediocre with Jeff Lorber. I can't think of a serious
sax player or any acconplished jazz musician who believes Kenny is a
good player. He's good at selling records but he's not a good jazz
musician, and he sure hasn't been playing jazz "all along."
>
John Danmark
sum1luvsu
> (Some self-plagiarism from a much earlier Kenny G thread)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Somebody has to defend Kenny G, so I'll do it.
>
> It's just too easy for jazz musicians to hate Kenny G.
>
> What really doesn't make sense to me is this: why we are so quick to
> attack Kenny G, yet we completely ignore many other pop musicians
> whose pretenses are in the same vein as Kenny G's?
Because the G-man's got the $.
>
> It seems to me that all this anger is counter productive for us, as it
> distracts us from the more important things in life. Why don't we all
> just give Kenny G the same treatment we give to other musicians we
> don't like -- an indifferent yawn -- and then get back to practicing.
Amen, Tim.
sum1luvsu
Good point.
But one that will be quickly forgotten, I'm afraid.
Tom Lippincott
<Tim Berens> wrote in message news:41b093f1....@news.core.com...
I think I may be repeating myself from when you originally posted this
thread, but here goes. I can only speak for myself, but the reason I get a
little upset by Kenny G and not by country or rap stars is that they aren't
passing off what they do as jazz. And, as I've probably said before, I
place almost all of the blame on the industry that promotes him and others
like him. They use the image of "jazz" as something people think of as
sophisticated and hip, and exploit that by peddling music that panders to
the lowest common denominator. The fact is, if it were only for the
popularity and the insipid music I would have absolutely no negative
feelings about Kenny G himself; I'd say more power to him, and that he
should enjoy drinking from the corporate teat while it's being offered.
Where the line is crossed for me, however, is the interviews with him in
music magazines that I've read. Granted, I wouldn't really trust most jazz
journalists to be "fair and balanced" in their slant of coverage of him, but
some of the statements he has made in interviews are purely asinine,
ignorant, and totally disrespectful to the jazz tradition and the master
musicians of that tradition.
The images of Bird and Coltrane reached just enough of the general public
for people to associate jazz with saxophone, so the record execs figure
someone with a sax can be marketed as jazz (what was that quote from P.T.
Barnum? something like no one ever went broke underestimating the
intelligence of the American public). This cheapens jazz as an art form and
an image, and, in my opinion, makes it a lot more difficult for "serious"
jazz artists to gain any public recognition. If John Q. Public thinks jazz
= Kenny G, it puts Jim Hall pretty much clear off the radar altogether.
There's nothing much to be done about it, though, other than not supporting
this stuff with my consumer dollars, so in the end I think you're right;
getting angry about it is probably counterproductive. On the other hand,
various things like the Pat Metheny rant (which was certainly motivated by
anger) and the scathing parodies on South Park have actually done some good
for the cause, in my opinion. Though G still has his legions of fans, I'm
finding that there are more and more people, both musicians and
non-musicians, who think of him as a joke.
--
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
8 string guitar audio samples at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/tomlippincottmusic.htm
MBR
>
====================
I don't think of Kenny G as a real jazz musician any more than I think
of Shania Twain as a real country singer. They're both pop musicians
and they should be regarded as such. Somehow, Kenny has marketed
himself as a "jazz" musician but the music he plays is a sterile,
dumbed down shadow of jazz. Parker/G Ellington/G Coltrane/G Davis/G
...I don't know... there's just such an enormous difference in
substance and integrity there. Kenny G should refer to himself as an
easy listening musician or an adult contemporary musician because
that's what he is, and that is fine, he can take the money and run, no
jealousy here pal. But jazz? I don't think so; and now the masses
believe that's what good jazz really is. When a successful pop
musician sells himself that way it kind of trivializes the effort that
so many people make to really play jazz music.
-Mark R
sum1luvsu
You're right, KG is everyone's whipping boy.
Just as obviously, he's good at more than selling records - millions
of people buy tickets to his shows.
sum1luvsu
> sum1luvsu wrote:
>
> > Lord Valve <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<41B017A0...@ix.netcom.com>...
> > > sum1luvsu wrote:
> > >
> > > > Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> > > > Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> > > > Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> > > > scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> > > > certified gold by the RIAA.
> > > >
> > > > http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Kenny G plays jazz?
> > >
> > > Damn, I musta missed something somewhere...when did he
> > > start doing that?
> >
> > Been doin' it all along, since he started out with the Jeff Lorber
> > Fusion.
> >
> > There's a place for you to start. Seems like you've missed a lot over
> > the last 20-30 years.
> >
> > Welcome back.
>
>
> I never went anywhere, son.
Well, you seemed to have missed a bit, gramps.
sum1luvsu
> sum1luvsu wrote:
> > That would probably be Holy Ghost, the Albert Ayler box set. More
> > than 8 hours of noodling and havin' a wank on the sax-o-phone.
> >
> > Don't delay - get yours today!
>
> I already have mine, and while it is uneven, it is a revelation to
> anyone who has ears and cares about history.
I have ears and I care about history. But I prefer to listen to music.
> I know very musical people who cannot take Ayler, thinking of him as
> "too primitive."
"Too pretentious" would also be accurate.
Stephen Howard
>(Tim Berens) wrote in message news:<41b093f1....@news.core.com>...
>>
>> It seems to me that all this anger is counter productive for us, as it
>> distracts us from the more important things in life. Why don't we all
>> just give Kenny G the same treatment we give to other musicians we
>> don't like -- an indifferent yawn -- and then get back to practicing.
>
>Amen, Tim.
I'm so very glad you concur - perhaps now you'll stop bleating on AMS
every time Mr.G produces another insipid album.
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk
geowulf
financial success on the coattails of starving jazz musicians....ever
listen to Paul Whiteman, the 'King of Jazz'? The only difference is
the fact that he had real musicians playing for him, but the music,
for the most part, was lame-ass boring commercial pap. And he didn't
destroy jazz, he employed a lot of musicians during the Depression
when work was hard to find and provided entertainment to the masses.
Don't worry, the people listening to the G man don't know a soprano
sax from a tuba, and would probably have a hard time wrapping their
minds around what we call 'real jazz'. So let 'em listen to him, it's
their time and money.
Bottom line is, Kenny G. is just creepy! I can't even stand to look
at him for very long.
George
DaveG
To say the least.
--
Unknown
<tomlip...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>
>I think I may be repeating myself from when you originally posted this
>thread, but here goes. I can only speak for myself, but the reason I get a
>little upset by Kenny G and not by country or rap stars is that they aren't
>passing off what they do as jazz.
Tom:
As usual, what you said makes a lot of sense. I particularly liked
the phrase "drinking from the corporate teat." The mental image gave
me a good laugh.
I'm just not as bothered by the smooth jazz phenomenon in general as
others. I don't listen to it or play it myself, but people I care
about do listen to it and enjoy it. I find it hard to get upset about
something that brings joy into people's lives. Maybe it's the
marketing rather than the music that is the problem?
And maybe -- just maybe -- somebody somewhere will listen to a Kenny G
recording, find something pleasing about it, and decide to investigate
this jazz thing.
Tim
Mark Eisenman
suml...@yahoo.co.jp wrote on 12/4/04 12:10 AM:
"Writing songs with mass appeal is a lot tougher than it would
>> seem. You think you can do it? Let's see you do it." He was responding to
>> folks dismissing their music as fluff that anyone could compose.
>>
>> Kurt
>
> Good point.
>
> But one that will be quickly forgotten, I'm afraid.
But just because something's difficult to do doesn't make the result
anything more than fluff, or inherently more valuable or artistic.
Mark
Neal
> (kurt) wrote
>> (Bon Jovi) was responding to
>> folks dismissing their music as fluff that anyone could compose.
Many reasons to write. I don't presume to judge the historical worth of
contemporary music, as it's impossible. Though his "Livin' On A Prayer"
has qualities which suggest it will remain popular for SOME time.
David Kotschessa
Writing songs with popular appeal is as easy as taking a shit. The trick
is to have the combination of a marketing department, shmaltzy
personality, good hair, capital, etc.
Mike C.
jazz himself.
--
Mike C.
http://mikecrutcher.com
"As much as I love music, I never really thought it was my life. I thought
it was the vehicle I used to express my life" - Herbie Mann
"MBR" <jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b04a13f9.04120...@posting.google.com...
Zoot
> Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> certified gold by the RIAA.
>
> http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
so the #1 selling jazz c d isn't jazz. do we need a better example of
why we must not tolerate calling this completely predictable
commercial pap jazz. it is bad for jazz. someone with ears will hear
this crap and think it is jazz and understandably deduce that jazz is
crap. now it's time for the resident troll to say that i said that
jazz is crap. oops i did it again.
Kurt Shapiro
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
"David Kotschessa" <da...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:2004120411...@meniscus.d0nuts.org...
Kurt Shapiro
like BS to me. I can guarantee you that Kenny Gorelick has the utmost
respect for Michael Brecker. Maybe Kenny said he never had a lesson, but I
doubt it unless he was kidding out of respect for Brecker. I know people
that played with KG growing up here in Seattle. KG took lessons. Kenny G's
a damned fine player and musician. He's also an even better businessman. I
think we've got a lot to learn from Kenny -- I don't see what the problem is
with the guy knowing how to market himself and having success. I know
enough musicians though that heard Kenny play as youngster and can tell you
that he was a freakin' monster. I'd also like to commend him for giving
some good-paying sideman gigs to a lot of cats up here in the Northwest.
Hell, if he offered me a gig, I'd be on it like white on rice.
Someone else here was dissing Jeff Lorber. What the Sam Hell are you
thinking? Jeff Lorber is one of the most in-demand studio players in the
universe. Why? Because he can play his ass off, that's why. He's on so
many damned hits it's ridiculous. Hits you don't even think of Jeff Lorber
as being on. Try reading some liner notes. He's a great musician and funky
as hell. I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Lorber could whoop ass on most of
the people in this group on a standards gig. I hear a lot of bitching about
"time" on this ng. Most of us would be damned fortunate to have time as
good as Jeff Lorber.
I get a little rankled by the whole jazz snobbery thing sometimes. Why does
music have to sound like pregnant weasels or be played by someone who is now
dead before it receives approval from the jazz community. Or have to be
hated by the majority of the population. If you had a private conversation
with Kenny G, I'm sure he'd admit in a second that what he's selling isn't
the same thing as Odean Pope or Michael Brecker (who also played on plenty
of pop hits, by the way). So what? It's apples and oranges. Kenny G
didn't create the "smooth jazz" thing. Hell, you might as well blame George
Benson or Louis Armstrong.
You may want to spend your time dissing Kenny G, but I'd rather thank him
for helping give some good players work and maybe pave the way for folks to
make the transition to harder core jazz. Maybe someone who likes Kenny G
will feel inclined to check out Dexter Gordon.
If KG called me for a gig, hell yeah I'd take it! It'd be an honor. He's
got some GREAT musicians working with him.
"ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:it7vq0h20c2i0tuaf...@4ax.com...
>> There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
> hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy. When G.
> crossed paths with Brecker, he said to Michael that he never took a
> lesson. I guess G's best category on Jeopardy would be "The Fuckin'
> Obvious"
>
ansermetniac
Vey es meer
Abbedd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:it7vq0h20c2i0tuaf...@4ax.com...
>>> There is no question that Mr. G is popular with the masses. He is
>> hated by Musicians. I wonder why? And it ain't jealousy. When G.
>> crossed paths with Brecker, he said to Michael that he never took a
>> lesson. I guess G's best category on Jeopardy would be "The Fuckin'
>> Obvious"
>>
>
______________
Glenn Spiegel
He could have been a telemarketer or a used car salesman or a
politician, but he's a musician making an honest living playing music
for people who like what he plays. What's wrong with that? What gig
did he take away from you that you wanted?
Glenn
Mike O'Malley
> > (Some self-plagiarism from a much earlier Kenny G thread)
> >
> >
>
>
Why do people hate Kenny G? simple. Most jazz players have
consciously chosen a harder path--technically more demanding,
financially uncertain, appealing to smaller audience than musicians
with less skill can often get. They try to pplay music that is
complicated, sophisticated, and harder for audiences to get. That's a
choice they make--fine. And as we all know there are many kinds of
good music--soe complex, some simple. Kenny G is annoying because he
drapes himself in the superficial trappings of jazz--instrumental
music, some improvising--while turning his back on the hard parts.
There's little complexity or sophistication or originality in his
playing. He had the temerity to "duet" with louis armstrong, further
associating himmself with jazz he doesn't really play.
Kenny G is the particle board furniture of jazz--it's cheap and easy,
it looks like jazz from a distance, but it's a fake and it's
disposable crap. If that's what you prefer, so be it. Particle board
fuirniture serves a purpose--it offer a cheap alternative to real
wood. Kenny G does the same thing.
As to the jealousy thing--shees, what a dub argumment. Of course I'd
like to be rich. IWho wouldn't? t's not that he's rich: as tim pointed
out, there are any number of rich crappy musicians, like, say, KISS or
Ashliegh Simpson. It's that he's a fake. And he fakes something
that's a labor of love for most people, something that takes
dedication, hard work, discipline and self sacrifice.
Mike C.
message news:vfGdnV3K-8j...@comcast.com...
> Where did you hear this thing about Kenny never taking lessons? It sounds
> like BS to me. I can guarantee you that Kenny Gorelick has the utmost
> respect for Michael Brecker. Maybe Kenny said he never had a lesson, but
I
> doubt it unless he was kidding out of respect for Brecker. I know people
> that played with KG growing up here in Seattle. KG took lessons. Kenny
G's
> a damned fine player and musician.
He's not a fine musician. He's out of tune, he plays with incorrect
emboucher, and he plays lame-ass scale runs repeatedly
He's also an even better businessman. I
> think we've got a lot to learn from Kenny -- I don't see what the problem
is
> with the guy knowing how to market himself and having success. I know
> enough musicians though that heard Kenny play as youngster and can tell
you
> that he was a freakin' monster.
Name one.
I'd also like to commend him for giving
> some good-paying sideman gigs to a lot of cats up here in the Northwest.
Name one.
> Hell, if he offered me a gig, I'd be on it like white on rice.
So you'd give up a life of practicing and working on playing better to lie
back and play pentatonic runs and wearing make-up onstage?
> Someone else here was dissing Jeff Lorber. What the Sam Hell are you
> thinking? Jeff Lorber is one of the most in-demand studio players in the
> universe.
Oh, really? Where did you read this?
Why? Because he can play his ass off, that's why. He's on so
> many damned hits it's ridiculous. Hits you don't even think of Jeff
Lorber
> as being on.
Name one.
Try reading some liner notes. He's a great musician and funky
> as hell.
Funny, he played on and produced a Tower Of Power disc, who are probably the
pinnacle of funk, and that disc blew chunks.
I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Lorber could whoop ass on most of
> the people in this group on a standards gig.
Prove it.
I hear a lot of bitching about
> "time" on this ng. Most of us would be damned fortunate to have time as
> good as Jeff Lorber.
Prove it.
> I get a little rankled by the whole jazz snobbery thing sometimes. Why
does
> music have to sound like pregnant weasels or be played by someone who is
now
> dead before it receives approval from the jazz community. Or have to be
> hated by the majority of the population.
It doesn't. It has to sound like jazz. Does Brecker sound like pregnant
weasels? What the hell does a pregnant weasel sound like, anyway? And how
would you know? Does the majority hate Brecker?
If you had a private conversation
> with Kenny G, I'm sure he'd admit in a second that what he's selling isn't
> the same thing as Odean Pope or Michael Brecker (who also played on plenty
> of pop hits, by the way).
But what he played was *always* good.
So what? It's apples and oranges. Kenny G
> didn't create the "smooth jazz" thing. Hell, you might as well blame
George
> Benson or Louis Armstrong.
Both who who have always played far better than Kenny G ever will.
> You may want to spend your time dissing Kenny G, but I'd rather thank him
> for helping give some good players work and maybe pave the way for folks
to
> make the transition to harder core jazz.
Again, name one. Pretty obvious that he's not paving the way for anyone to
make the transition to harder core jazz. That's been argued up the wazoo
here.
Maybe someone who likes Kenny G
> will feel inclined to check out Dexter Gordon.
Try again.
> If KG called me for a gig, hell yeah I'd take it! It'd be an honor. He's
> got some GREAT musicians working with him.
Name one.
Robert
thread erupts on this newsgroup disdaining Mr. G. and his music-making.
I think that Kenny G. does a good service to music and to the saxophone.
While I don't listen to him much, let me explain why I think so.
I grew up in the rural south of the USA where there were only two kinds
of music that I ever heard: radio music which was only country music
(then called hillbilly) and hymns in the church accompanied by an
incompetent player of a reed organ. I thought music was uninteresting.
Then one day, about the seventh grade for me,I saw a 33 1/3 RPM record
at the grocery store entitled "Backbeat Symphony." The jacket notes
said something like "the greatest composers of all time wrote the
world's best melodies. These melodies are buried in long symphonic
works which few listen to. Why waste time listening to the whole thing
when you can listen to those melodies recorded on this record with a
drum back-beat that young people love." Since I didn't know what a
symphony was, and the record was only 25 cents, I bought it. Sure
enough, there were a lot of classical tunes with a drum set going
"bump-bing" every measure. But this record is the first music for me
that was different from all else, and my life-long interest in music began.
Today, I think Kenny G is doing a similar service for the saxophone,
especially the soprano. I have many first-year university students who
have never played any musical instrument but want to learn to play the
soprano sax. They all cite Kenny G. as their role model.
What I'm trying to say is that no matter how mediocre Mr. G.'s music is
(of course a matter of opinion), he has the effect of starting young
people learning music. This is IMHO a beneficial outcome. Some will
quit, some will never listen to anything other than pop, but some will
become professional and amateur musicians, and maybe a few of these will
come to be admired by the serious jazzers that now complain about Kenny G.
I say, let Kenny earn his money and be listened to by the masses. In
the end it only benefits all musicians, even if only by a little bit.
DaveG
> What gig did he take away from you that you wanted?
The Michael Bolton one.
I had the hair thing down,the lot ;-(
--
Jurupari
>himself as a "jazz" musician but the music he plays is a sterile,
>dumbed down shadow of jazz.
That's what yanks people around.
It's pretentious to call it jazz, but if you do you can sell it to people who
want to be thought of as having taste, intelligence and discernment but really
want music they like- easily digestible and suitable for background rather than
being a challenge to the listener.
I'm sure it would bother Green Berets if a cub scout were posing as one and
being nationally aggrandized for it, or if an ambulance driver were holding
himself out as a neurosurgeon and getting paid to dispense medical advice, or
if Senor Ken's lard burritos with extra free radicals were being sold as a diet
product.
To someone who sweated the necessary blood to have earned their musical
credentials and can actually play, it's pretty easy to understand why they
wouldn't appreciate a phony horning in on what they do, and claiming parity
with them, when in reality as a jazz musician, Mr. Gorelick is as convincing as
a two dollar toupee.
Clif Kuplen
Hornsmasher
seem to hear that stuff from people who play other styles. Significantly, I
suspect that less than 1% of them are actually able to earn a living playing
what they profess to be such experts on. I guess this explains why they have
so much free time to criticize others who are actually making a living
playing: they don't have all of those pesky paying gigs to go to!
Seriously, I don't deny that jazz is an art form, and that some of the great
artists of the genre are underpaid and unappreciated. HOWEVER, it's not the
only form of music out there, and it's also very unpopular with the vast
majority of the human race. I had a teacher who used to remind me that on
any given Saturday night, there are a lot more guys getting paid to play
"Mustang Sally" than there are guys getting paid to play "Giant Steps".
Kenny is a guy who can play (I'm sorry, but the man does have some
significant skills) and who has become very popular (is he the best selling
saxophonist in history? I don't know but I suspect that he is) by playing
what people want to hear. He's an entertainer. He has his own definition of
what is "jazz", and I would respectfully submit that his definition is as
valid as anyone else's. There must be a reason for his tremendous success.
The criticism of the "jazz-nazi's" doesn't seem to have had a significant
impact on his sales. It's gone on for years and he appears to be more
popular than ever.
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine!
Visit my website www.saxgourmet.com
Visit my Forum http://saxgourmet.myforums.net/
Sax Repair Group
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/
"Glenn Spiegel" <effective...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:83e27aa7.0412...@posting.google.com...
Kurt Shapiro
"Mike C." <Funkifi...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8vOdncDjmPV...@comcast.com...
>> I know
> > enough musicians though that heard Kenny play as youngster and can tell
> you
> > that he was a freakin' monster.
>
> Name one.
Lester Iwana. The guys that were in Cold, Bold and Together.
>
> I'd also like to commend him for giving
> > some good-paying sideman gigs to a lot of cats up here in the Northwest.
>
> Name one.
Vail Johnson. John Raymond. There's two for you.
>
> > Hell, if he offered me a gig, I'd be on it like white on rice.
>
> So you'd give up a life of practicing and working on playing better to lie
> back and play pentatonic runs and wearing make-up onstage?
Make-up? Huh?
I guess you must only do first-class jazz gigs. Ulf, watch out, you've got
competition here; Mike's gonna' take your gig away ;-). If you're that
good, more power to you. As for me, I've played all kinds of crap gigs far
less musically sophisticated than anything Kenny G does and with much worse
players, and in the cheesiest joints, and I LOVED it. And for what Kenny G
pays his sideman and the kind of career stability they get from having him
on their resume, I'd happily put on make-up, not that I think that would be
required.
>
> > Someone else here was dissing Jeff Lorber. What the Sam Hell are you
> > thinking? Jeff Lorber is one of the most in-demand studio players in
the
> > universe.
>
> Oh, really? Where did you read this?
Read your liner notes, fool. Oliver Lieber (Paula Abdul) for starters.
Karyn White, Janet Jackson, Al Jarreau, Paul Jackson Jr., Will Lee, Steve
Lukather, Gerald Albright. The list goes on and on.
>
> Why? Because he can play his ass off, that's why. He's on so
> > many damned hits it's ridiculous. Hits you don't even think of Jeff
> Lorber
> > as being on.
>
> Name one.
>
See above.
> Try reading some liner notes. He's a great musician and funky
> > as hell.
>
> Funny, he played on and produced a Tower Of Power disc, who are probably
the
> pinnacle of funk, and that disc blew chunks.
I'm not sure which disc you mean, and I really don't care, since there are a
million reasons why a disc can blow chunks, and every musician can release
stuff that blows chunks. Might as well say Tower of Power "blew chunks."
Hell, I blew chunks on a gig last night. You work, you occasionally blow
chunks. That's the way it is. No point in comparing KG to Michael Brecker.
Maybe Michael Brecker never blew a bad note in his life. Who cares? Kenny
G doesn't claim to be doing what Michael Brecker does. If you're going to
hold everyone up to the candle of Michael Brecker, we might as well all pack
it in. What's next, comparing Metallica to Michael Brecker, Celine Dion to
Michael Brecker, Alice in Chains to Michael Brecker, Black Flag to Michael
Brecker, Vladimir Horowitz to Michael Brecker, Joey Goldstein to Michael
Brecker, Jerry Garcia to Michael Brecker?
Again, comparing KG to Brecker is pointless unless Kenny G claims to be able
to outplay Brecker in Brecker's idiom.
>
> I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Lorber could whoop ass on most of
> > the people in this group on a standards gig.
>
How do you suggest I do that? Hire Mr. Lorber? Send me the bux to hire him
for your gig, if you actually ever have one, and I'll be happy to.
> I hear a lot of bitching about
> > "time" on this ng. Most of us would be damned fortunate to have time as
> > good as Jeff Lorber.
>
> Prove it.
Listen, fool. Who are you? Jimmy Bruno? Pat Metheny? Dave Liebman? Who
are you playing with? Is Michael Brecker calling YOU for gigs? If he is,
then you're one of the very few people who might be able to comment on
Lorber's time. If that's the case, then how about some specifics that might
be instructional for the rest of us. Is Walter Afanasief calling YOU for
studio work? Otherwise, who the f**ck are you?
I'm probably somewhere in the middle of this ng heap, playingwise, and
Lorber's time would certainly do ME proud. Most of the clips I've heard
from other people too.
I've never heard pro cats dissing Lorber. Pat Metheny might diss on Kenny G
for the Louis Armstrong thing, but I don't remember Metheny ever dissing
Jeff Lorber.
I suppose Metheny's at least earned the right. And Metheny's gotten dissed
too, so whatever. To my humble sense of time, Lorber's got it going on.
Admittedly, I haven't listened to a whole bunch of Lorber, but what I've
heard has been tighter than a gnat's ass.
> > I get a little rankled by the whole jazz snobbery thing sometimes. Why
> does
> > music have to sound like pregnant weasels or be played by someone who is
> now
> > dead before it receives approval from the jazz community. Or have to be
> > hated by the majority of the population.
>
> It doesn't. It has to sound like jazz. Does Brecker sound like pregnant
> weasels? What the hell does a pregnant weasel sound like, anyway? And how
> would you know? Does the majority hate Brecker?
And the Great Arbiter of "What Sounds Like Jazz" is YOU?
>
> If you had a private conversation
> > with Kenny G, I'm sure he'd admit in a second that what he's selling
isn't
> > the same thing as Odean Pope or Michael Brecker (who also played on
plenty
> > of pop hits, by the way).
>
> But what he played was *always* good.
>
> So what? It's apples and oranges. Kenny G
> > didn't create the "smooth jazz" thing. Hell, you might as well blame
> George
> > Benson or Louis Armstrong.
>
> Both who who have always played far better than Kenny G ever will.
Yeah, probably, but so what? The point is that you can't blame Kenny G for
sullying the sacred name of "jazz." Smooth jazz and pop was around long
before Kenny G. Long before jazz even became academic music.
>
> > You may want to spend your time dissing Kenny G, but I'd rather thank
him
> > for helping give some good players work and maybe pave the way for folks
> to
> > make the transition to harder core jazz.
>
> Again, name one. Pretty obvious that he's not paving the way for anyone to
> make the transition to harder core jazz. That's been argued up the wazoo
> here.
Then I won't waste time with it. Some people might feel that way, others
might not.
>
> Maybe someone who likes Kenny G
> > will feel inclined to check out Dexter Gordon.
>
> Try again.
Why? You said this point had been argued to death already.
>
> > If KG called me for a gig, hell yeah I'd take it! It'd be an honor.
He's
> > got some GREAT musicians working with him.
>
> Name one.
See above. You want more? Locally speaking: Vail Johnson, John Raymond.
Just read the damned liner notes on a KG disc. You think Afanasief's a 2nd
rate producer? Okay, well if Gonzalo Rubalcaba's calling you, I suppose you
can say what you want, not that I'd have to agree even then. If you're
turning down gigs with guys like KG, and making a good living playing "real"
jazz, bully for you. Otherwise: STFU and worry about your own playing.
I, on the other hand, would be happy to have such a good gig. I don't have
a trust fund, and Gonzalo and Brecker aren't calling me.
Mark Bushaw
Hank Williams Jr. and his generation of rock-western music hit the
airwaves. The traditionalists refused to accept it as country-western.
I may have the players wrong here as I will not listen to country,
western, country-western, or bluegrass. Unless it's Hank Sr. singing.
Mark Bushaw
Hornsmasher
last word on what constituted "country music".....and how many of those
"traditional country" bands are working tonight vs. the number of "new
country" bands?
BTW, here in the South, we refer to it as "cousin f**kin' music", not
country music!
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine!
Visit my website www.saxgourmet.com
Visit my Forum http://saxgourmet.myforums.net/
Sax Repair Group
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/
"Mark Bushaw" <MBu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dBusd.198673$G15.154093@fed1read03...
MBR
Millions of people go to the circus and to freak shows too.
sum1luvsu
> ====================
> I don't think of Kenny G as a real jazz musician any more than I think
> of Shania Twain as a real country singer. They're both pop musicians
> and they should be regarded as such. Somehow, Kenny has marketed
> himself as a "jazz" musician but the music he plays is a sterile,
> dumbed down shadow of jazz. Parker/G Ellington/G Coltrane/G Davis/G
> ...I don't know... there's just such an enormous difference in
> substance and integrity there. Kenny G should refer to himself as an
> easy listening musician or an adult contemporary musician because
> that's what he is, and that is fine, he can take the money and run, no
> jealousy here pal. But jazz? I don't think so; and now the masses
> believe that's what good jazz really is. When a successful pop
> musician sells himself that way it kind of trivializes the effort that
> so many people make to really play jazz music.
>
> -Mark R
Most people think peanuts are nuts. They're not. Does that mean nuts
have been diminished?
sum1luvsu
Well said, Tim.
There is just so much more postivie to the G-man than all the whining
and griping in this ng.
Thanks for looking on the bright side.
sum1luvsu
>
> > in article cf17c6ff.0412...@posting.google.com, sum1luvsu at
> > suml...@yahoo.co.jp wrote on 12/4/04 12:10 AM:
> > "Writing songs with mass appeal is a lot tougher than it would
> >>> seem. You think you can do it? Let's see you do it." He was responding to
> >>> folks dismissing their music as fluff that anyone could compose.
> >>>
> >>> Kurt
> >>
> >> Good point.
> >>
> >> But one that will be quickly forgotten, I'm afraid.
> >
> > But just because something's difficult to do doesn't make the result
> > anything more than fluff, or inherently more valuable or artistic.
> >
> > Mark
>
> Writing songs with popular appeal is as easy as taking a shit.
You must be chronically constipated. Or did we all somehow miss your
latest Greatest Hits compilation?
sum1luvsu
"Mike C." <Funkifi...@msn.com> wrote in message news:<-bydnS1xOZ4...@comcast.com>...
sum1luvsu
> suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote in message news:<cf17c6ff.04120...@posting.google.com>...
> > Kenny G's 15th album for Arista Records, "At Last ... The Duets
> > Album," debuted at #1 on the "Current Jazz" chart and Contemporary
> > Jazz chart this week and entered the Billboard Top 200 at #40,
> > scanning 50,496 units. In addition, the album has already been
> > certified gold by the RIAA.
> >
> > http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2004/12/kenny_g_at_last.html
>
> so the #1 selling jazz c d isn't jazz.
Want to borrow my glasses, gramps?
sum1luvsu
> Where did you hear this thing about Kenny never taking lessons? It sounds
> like BS to me.
Of course it is.
But these people can't let common sense or the truth interfere with
their prejudices.
DaveG
> It strikes me that it's always the "jazzers" who dis other people.
Nope,my mate who is strictly a gutsy R'n'B player HATES KennyG.
> You don't
> seem to hear that stuff from people who play other styles.
There you go then.
> Significantly, I
> suspect that less than 1% of them are actually able to earn a living playing
> what they profess to be such experts on.
Wrong again.
I guess this explains why they have
> so much free time to criticize others who are actually making a living
> playing: they don't have all of those pesky paying gigs to go to!
hehehe
> Seriously, I don't deny that jazz is an art form, and that some of the great
> artists of the genre are underpaid and unappreciated. HOWEVER, it's not the
> only form of music out there, and it's also very unpopular with the vast
> majority of the human race.
Nonsense,far from it,OK maybe the more progressive stuff but quite how
"Jazz" has crept into the public conciousness over the last 20
years,certainly in the UK,is quite phenonemal.
I had a teacher who used to remind me that on
> any given Saturday night, there are a lot more guys getting paid to play
> "Mustang Sally" than there are guys getting paid to play "Giant Steps".
Yes there is some truth in that but MS ain't KG music,how many guys are
getting paid to be play KG schlock and how many are getting paid playing
a Jazz?
> Kenny is a guy who can play (I'm sorry, but the man does have some
> significant skills) and who has become very popular (is he the best selling
> saxophonist in history?
Right,these days I'm afraid "best selling artist" has more in common
with watered down,shallow,base,frankly CRAP music than anything else.
> I don't know but I suspect that he is) by playing
> what people want to hear.
Balls,it's all about marketing,come on,don't tell me you don't know how
the music biz works in terms of promotion etc
> He's an entertainer. He has his own definition of
> what is "jazz",
Yes,uniquely bland vomitus inducing wallpaper music.
> and I would respectfully submit that his definition is as
> valid as anyone else's.
I couldn't disagree more.
>There must be a reason for his tremendous success.
Warner Bros etc
> The criticism of the "jazz-nazi's" doesn't seem to have had a significant
> impact on his sales.
And why is that??
cos the G music is a total turn off.
Lets be clear(again)-NO ONE WITH TASTE IN MUSIC LISTENS TO OR BUYS KENNY G.
It's as simple as that.
How many G records do you own??
--
sum1luvsu
> suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote in message news:<cf17c6ff.04120...@posting.google.com>...
> > jazz...@hotmail.com (MBR) wrote in message news:<b04a13f9.04120...@posting.google.com>...
> > > suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote in message
> > > > Been doin' it all along, since he started out with the Jeff Lorber
> > > > Fusion.
> > >
> > > He was pretty mediocre with Jeff Lorber. I can't think of a serious
> > > sax player or any acconplished jazz musician who believes Kenny is a
> > > good player. He's good at selling records but he's not a good jazz
> > > musician, and he sure hasn't been playing jazz "all along."
> > > >
> >
> > You're right, KG is everyone's whipping boy.
> >
> > Just as obviously, he's good at more than selling records - millions
> > of people buy tickets to his shows.
> ================
> Millions of people go to the circus and to freak shows too.
Not the point, though, was it, Fred?
sum1luvsu
> It strikes me that it's always the "jazzers" who dis other people. You don't
> seem to hear that stuff from people who play other styles. Significantly, I
> suspect that less than 1% of them are actually able to earn a living playing
> what they profess to be such experts on. I guess this explains why they have
> so much free time to criticize others who are actually making a living
> playing: they don't have all of those pesky paying gigs to go to!
>
Touche!
Now get back to practicing, you gigless, whinny, jazz geeks.
Zippy the Pinhead
>Most people think peanuts are nuts. They're not. Does that mean nuts
>have been diminished?
Perhaps not, but on the other hand, they haven't been augmented
either.
--
There are NO pictures of Jesus chewing gum.
Sister Generus Posterior.
Tom K
"Jurupari" <juru...@aol.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:20041204192806...@mb-m01.aol.com...
> I'm sure it would bother Green Berets if a cub scout were posing as one
> and
> being nationally aggrandized for it, or if an ambulance driver were
> holding
> himself out as a neurosurgeon and getting paid to dispense medical advice,
> or
> if Senor Ken's lard burritos with extra free radicals were being sold as a
> diet
> product.
Best post I've read on this subject. I have no problem with KG's succes and
earnings, but when he, or anyone else, wants to label it as jazz, he or they
should be called on it, Metheny-style or otherwise.
Lord Valve
sum1luvsu wrote:
It's "whiny."
You poor bastard - you've spent days posting 10,000+ words
in defense of elevator music. Put your headphones on and
drown yourself in the shit fo all I care - how embarassing.
Lord Valve
Organist
danil
sum1luvsu
> On 4 Dec 2004 22:34:48 -0800, suml...@yahoo.co.jp (sum1luvsu) wrote:
>
> >Most people think peanuts are nuts. They're not. Does that mean nuts
> >have been diminished?
>
> Perhaps not, but on the other hand, they haven't been augmented
> either.
Right. Basically no one cares.
sum1luvsu
> sum1luvsu wrote:
>
> > "Hornsmasher" <ste...@saxgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<rTtsd.97248$IQ....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
> >
> > > It strikes me that it's always the "jazzers" who dis other people. You don't
> > > seem to hear that stuff from people who play other styles. Significantly, I
> > > suspect that less than 1% of them are actually able to earn a living playing
> > > what they profess to be such experts on. I guess this explains why they have
> > > so much free time to criticize others who are actually making a living
> > > playing: they don't have all of those pesky paying gigs to go to!
> > >
> >
> > Touche!
> >
> > Now get back to practicing, you gigless, whinny, jazz geeks.
>
> It's "whiny."
>
Gee, thanks.
Since you seem to have the time and the inclination, can I send you my
posts for spell-checking before posting?
sum1luvsu
>
> You poor bastard - you've spent days posting 10,000+ words
> in defense of elevator music. Put your headphones on and
> drown yourself in the shit fo all I care - how embarassing.
>
> Lord Valve
> Organist
So, if I'm a poor bastard for having brought up the subject of KG,
what's that make the lame-ass geezer who reads all the messages in the
thread AND and replies on the subject more than once AND at length?
Lord Valve
sum1luvsu wrote:
> Lord Valve <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<41B37A5A...@ix.netcom.com>...
>
> >
> > You poor bastard - you've spent days posting 10,000+ words
> > in defense of elevator music. Put your headphones on and
> > drown yourself in the shit for all I care - how embarassing.
> >
> > Lord Valve
> > Organist
>
> So, if I'm a poor bastard for having brought up the subject of KG,
Stings like a bitch, don't it, son?
> what's that make the lame-ass geezer who reads all the messages in the
> thread AND and replies on the subject more than once AND at length?
Highly amused.
Lord Valve
Organist
sum1luvsu
Then stop your whining and enjoy yourself, gramps.
sum1luvsu
Jurupari
Only if they've been to music school, and don't play for a living, or so it
seems around here, anyway.
Most of the wage earners on this group know better - what goes around comes
around and you don't want to get caught talking trash about a prospective
employer by him or his sideman or his sideman's girlfriend's cousin. It's too
small a world to start poisoning wells.
>You don't
>seem to hear that stuff from people who play other styles.
You need to get out. I've played about every commercial and dance style there
is. The dumber the band's concept the bigger the heads - it's not linear,
it's exponential.
> I had a teacher who used to remind me that on
>any given Saturday night, there are a lot more guys getting paid to play
>"Mustang Sally" than there are guys getting paid to play "Giant Steps".
And even they don't amount to squat.
There are a lot more DJ's being paid to play anything at all than guys getting
paid to play mustang sally.
And there are lots more karaoke singers not getting paid than musicians OR DJ's
getting paid and they ring registers better than either.
If it's about money, it's all about money and most music's near worthless by
that standard.
> He's an entertainer.
ah-HA! That's exactly right, and exactly what someone like Joe Henderson was
not. Joe was a musician, a jazz musician.
Compared to a really popular entertainer like Tiny Tim or Keiko, not much of
one, I'm afraid.
Maybe if he juggled or took up an instrument...
As an entertainer, though, it's ok if he's in the bush leagues musically,
nobody thinks Dylan can sing or that Elvis could play or that Roy Clark can
dance for that matter, but now you're comparing him to The Rock and Carmen
Electra. Bad career move for your hero. It's hard to compete with all that with
bad hair and a flatsophone.
>He has his own definition of
>what is "jazz", and I would respectfully submit that his definition is as
>valid as anyone else's
Oh. Jazz is a glass pastrami sandwich. shoulda known.
Free speech is one thing.
Free endorsement is another.
If Kenny G or you as his attorney wants to define jazz for me, let's see him
hack up some of that famous long green and I'll sell out as fast as he does,
say I'm his biggest fan and go back to what I want to play, and he can call it
macaroni for all I give a shit.
But fair warning - if Neil Diamond gets here first with a better offer, then
he's jazz and you're not, nothin' personal, that's the entertainment biz..
If the guy were modest or humble or unpretentious, he probably wouldn't bend so
many noses outta joint, but he isn't - to quote Eric Cartmann, he's a douche,
so he gets it for that, too.
You try to coast on Pops' coattails when you don't need to to get a paycheck or
make out in an interview that Bird couldn't play, you're going to get
jackhammered just for that. He did, and people remember, not that it would
bother him. As you said, he's an entertainer.
Clif
Peter
">
>> > > It strikes me that it's always the "jazzers" who dis other people.
>> > > You don't
>> > > seem to hear that stuff from people who play other styles.
In my experience it happens in EVERY type of music
Definitely in the worlds of folk music, world music, rock music and
classical music to my certain knowledge
There is always a strong disagreement between those who play (and listen to)
the music for its own sake (as they see it) and usually suffer financially,
and those who play a version of the music that is more popular and hence do
better financially. I'm trying to avoid any value judgements about this -
its just a fact regardless of which you think is "better".
It is of course possible for people to play the music they really love and
to find that it becomes popular, the problem is that if they are successful
we always distrust their motives - assuming they play that way in order to
be successful.
The Enunciator
Peter wrote:
>
> There is always a strong disagreement between those who play (and
listen to)
> the music for its own sake (as they see it) and usually suffer
financially
"as they see" being the operative phrase here. It's like a group of
priests getting to together to decide whose motives are pure enough to
be admitted to the order. (Meanwhile during recess the guardians of
the moral code are out back having it on with a gaggle of school boys.)
Peter
"The Enunciator" <notafrai...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:1102653601....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
So - no bias from you then!
You could equally say the "commercial" end of the spectrum are like
prostitutes who claim to be doing it in order to exercise their
independence, or alcoholics who claim they can stop any time. Just because
you clearly like the more "commercial" style of music doesn't make it better
or worse - show some tolerance.
The Enunciator
> "The Enunciator" <notafrai...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:1102653601....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Peter wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> There is always a strong disagreement between those who play (and
> > listen to)
> >> the music for its own sake (as they see it) and usually suffer
> > financially
> >
> >
> > "as they see" being the operative phrase here. It's like a group
of
> > priests getting to together to decide whose motives are pure enough
to
> > be admitted to the order. (Meanwhile during recess the guardians
of
> > the moral code are out back having it on with a gaggle of school
boys.)
>
> So - no bias from you then!
None at all.
> You could equally say the "commercial" end of the spectrum are like
> prostitutes who claim to be doing it in order to exercise their
> independence,
Some musicians work only for money. Doesn't mean they can't make
interesting music.
> or alcoholics who claim they can stop any time. Just because
> you clearly like the more "commercial" style of music doesn't make it
better
> or worse - show some tolerance.
I like music that doesn't pretend to be meaningful; music that is
humble. Doesn't matter commercial or not.
The Enunciator
Peter wrote:
> "The Enunciator" <notafrai...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:1102653601....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Peter wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> There is always a strong disagreement between those who play (and
> > listen to)
> >> the music for its own sake (as they see it) and usually suffer
> > financially
> >
> >
> > "as they see" being the operative phrase here. It's like a group
of
> > priests getting to together to decide whose motives are pure enough
to
> > be admitted to the order. (Meanwhile during recess the guardians
of
> > the moral code are out back having it on with a gaggle of school
boys.)
>
> So - no bias from you then!
None at all.
> You could equally say the "commercial" end of the spectrum are like
> prostitutes who claim to be doing it in order to exercise their
> independence,
Some musicians work only for money. Doesn't mean they can't make
interesting music.
> or alcoholics who claim they can stop any time. Just because
> you clearly like the more "commercial" style of music doesn't make it
better
> or worse - show some tolerance.
I like music that doesn't pretend to be meaningful; music that is
optional
Hornsmasher wrote:
it's not the
no, but it should be the one we talk about in this group. not the stuff
we do as whores. dig?