Who do you play for?
Pt
Or do you play for other people?
Pt
bob r
no...@noplace.com wrote on 8/28/04 9:25 PM:
> Do you play music for you?
> Or do you play for other people?
>
> Pt
Yes.
--
Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD, "Watch This!", available at:
http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
thom_j
news:BD56ABC9.308BA%what...@anyway.com...
> in article usb2j0dq3odmnrvga...@4ax.com, Pt at
> no...@noplace.com wrote on 8/28/04 9:25 PM:
>
>> Do you play music for you?
>> Or do you play for other people?
>>
>> Pt
>
> Yes.
Ditto....
GregD/oasysco
4ax.com:
> Do you play music for you?
> Or do you play for other people?
>
> Pt
Actually, for the rock/blues/dance thing, it's for the audience as I enjoy
more when they enjoy it. For jazz (if I can call it that when I play it,
it's for me, but only at home.
Greg
Henry Moon
and haved lived to pay the price for both.
Henry
Gerry
<no...@noplace.com> wrote:
> Do you play music for you?
> Or do you play for other people?
When they conflict, the former.
--
Invest wisely: Over the past 75 years, stocks have averaged annual gains of 2.3
percent under GOP administrations, compared with 9.5 under Democratic ones.
-- Jerry Heaster
Steve
Jazz Guy
> Pt <no...@noplace.com> wrote in news:usb2j0dq3odmnrvgau2dfvvrk6k8oe02os@
> 4ax.com:
>
> > Do you play music for you?
> > Or do you play for other people?
> >
> > Pt
I play for the greater good of mankind, to make to world a better
place, to increase the spirituality of my fellow human beings, cats
and dogs also seem to like some of my playing, but not as much as
chasing each other around the street. Via sound travel through the
space time continuum, I hope I'll be reaching the distant stars,
hopefully enhancing the lives of other living beings, who many light
years from now will benefit from hearing me play.
Guy
Joe
> > Do you play music for you?
> > Or do you play for other people?
Bob Russell answered...
> Yes.
Well said.
Henry Moon
Weren't we in a commune in the sixties and you were teaching "better
bowels thru LSD?"
I thought I recogized you!
henry
Mr.Will
For me and whoever wants to listen!
Mr.Will
"Pt" <no...@noplace.com> wrote in message
news:usb2j0dq3odmnrvga...@4ax.com...
Tony DeCaprio
Pt <no...@noplace.com> wrote in message news:<usb2j0dq3odmnrvga...@4ax.com>...
Joe Finn
> Or do you play for other people?
>
> Pt
It's not an either/or situation. While we obviously are performing for an
audience, on some levels we are doing so for reasons of our own. .....joe
--
Visit me on the web www.joefinn.net
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Pt
But audiences do like them.
I don't play those songs for me.
I would rather not play or hear them.
Pt
Pt
wrote:
>
>"Pt" <no...@noplace.com> wrote in message
>news:usb2j0dq3odmnrvga...@4ax.com...
>> Do you play music for you?
>> Or do you play for other people?
>>
>> Pt
>
>It's not an either/or situation. While we obviously are performing for an
>audience, on some levels we are doing so for reasons of our own. .....joe
The thing I like most about gigging is audience reaction.
Especially when they like the music.
I play for the audience.
The more they dig the music the better I am and the more I enjoy
playing.
I think that is the reason that many of us play gigs.
I know people who ignore the audience and play for themselves.
I just can't do that.
Pt
Gerry
<no...@noplace.com> wrote:
Make yourself unhappy as long as making someone ELSE happy makes you
happier than the unhappiness you feel making yourself happy instead of
them. This assumes, of course that making yourself happy instead of
them would directly make them unhappy--who could be happy doing that?
Rick R.
fear..other people too.
Gerry
<rickfrossyou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> bourgeoise yuppie scum..shallow morality and pointless existence rife with
> fear..other people too.
You called?
Rick Del Savio
Cheers.
--
Jazz Guitarist/Educator
Check out lessons and original music @
http://www.rickdelsavio.com
Rick R.
struggle all humans must endure...
I just wish someone had told me about this when I was a kid..
damn!
"Rick Del Savio" <rain...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:41321633...@optonline.net...
Gerry
<rickfrossyou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> only negative to the extent that music is inextricably tied to the inherent
> struggle all humans must endure...
Which struggle is that--listening to hip-hop?
Rick R.
"Gerry" <222...@spam.really.sucks> wrote in message
news:290820041219292611%222...@spam.really.sucks...
George Prager
but in the meantime you'll be eating. Or you can starve and play for
yourself and keep your soul as pure as the driven snow.
I know what you mean about the overplayed tunes, oy vey...
G.P.
"Pt" <no...@noplace.com> wrote in message
news:usb2j0dq3odmnrvga...@4ax.com...
Gerry
<gtrvox...@canoemail.com> wrote:
> I think if you play for other people too long, it'll eat away at your soul
> but in the meantime you'll be eating. Or you can starve and play for
> yourself and keep your soul as pure as the driven snow.
How 'bout you get a day job that's at least tolerable and play as much
as you like around the demands of an average working stiff's life, like
most other artists?
George Prager
>
> How 'bout you get a day job that's at least tolerable
isn't that an oxymoron?
seriously, I'm not sure I could at this point - haven't had a day job in 15
years. Music pays the bills. Compromises have to be made one way or the
other. Playing certain tunes for the billionth time sucks but still less so
than a day job
Gerry
<gtrvox...@canoemail.com> wrote:
> > How 'bout you get a day job that's at least tolerable
>
> isn't that an oxymoron?
Nope.
> seriously, I'm not sure I could at this point - haven't had a day job
> in 15 years. Music pays the bills.
Lucky you!
> Compromises have to be made one way or the other. Playing certain
> tunes for the billionth time sucks but still less so than a day job.
Okay, if you say so.
Lumpy
> > > How 'bout you get a day
> > > job that's at least tolerable
George Prager wrote:
> > Compromises have to be made one way or
> > the other. Playing certain tunes for the
> > billionth time sucks but still less so than
> > a day job.
Gerry wrote:
> Okay, if you say so.
Well, I certainly say so. Would you really prefer
to punch a time clock and wear a suit and all that
instead of playing Margaritaville or Ipanema or
Hava Nagila or whatever it is that you feel is
an overdone tune?
I'll do polkas before I'll to corporate cubicles.
Lumpy
--
In Your Ears for 40 Years
http://www.lumpymusic.com
Don Judy
"Lumpy" <lu...@digitalcartography.com> wrote in message
news:2pg1beF...@uni-berlin.de...
been through before whether I'm playing a chestnut or something new to me. I
don't even get bored playing Margaritaville. A C is a C is a C. If I got
bored from playing stuff it would be using those same old majors, minors,
dom7s, 9 chords, fractured 11ths, whatever. People that hate playing songs
that put food on the table don't really like playing is my thought on the
matter. Spoiled 14 year old mentalities that never went beyond even if their
technique and abilities did. Unless they're real artists, of course. But
most musicians, even the good ones are mere craftsmen and need to get that
sensitive artist illusion out of their approach to life.
dj - We didn't start the fire...
thom_j
news:c5d0c8ab.04082...@posting.google.com...
not for world peace too? i am curious tee'...
Gerry
<lu...@digitalcartography.com> wrote:
> Gerry wrote:
> > > > How 'bout you get a day
> > > > job that's at least tolerable
>
> George Prager wrote:
> > > Compromises have to be made one way or
> > > the other. Playing certain tunes for the
> > > billionth time sucks but still less so than
> > > a day job.
>
> Gerry wrote:
> > Okay, if you say so.
>
> Well, I certainly say so. Would you really prefer
> to punch a time clock and wear a suit and all that
> instead of playing Margaritaville or Ipanema or
> Hava Nagila or whatever it is that you feel is
> an overdone tune?
Those are the only two options I have?
How about I get a challenging job that has financial and intellectual
challenges, no politics, I don't have to wear jacket and tie and get to
work out of my house?
Versus:
I have to play for a bunch of drunks who don't listen to the music,
occasionally pick fights and vomit on the floor, I never get to play
any music I give a damn about--including even the tunes you mention.
In reality the latter was the case for me, and in conjunction with that
I had to lose sleep about rent, bills and food, live in the less
desirable areas, etc. At that point in my career I wasn't married to a
nurse. I've found the most successful local players are married to
nurses. Go figure. It helps them get through the rough paches
certainly, and with their wife working the late shift they can share a
life.
I'd prefer not to have rough patches, but I also preferred to
concentrate on any music or instrument I liked without it being
tethered to money. Is music always better when it's tethered to your
rent? I didn't think so.
The day job isn't always good or easy. But it's always remunerative.
The music gig wasn't always musical, and during my career it was only
remunerative in a spotty way. That's just my circumstance. God knows
there are some horrifying day-jobs and tap-dancing for loose change
would be better than many of them.
Omcha
JJ
George Prager
People that hate playing songs
> that put food on the table don't really like playing is my thought on the
> matter. Spoiled 14 year old mentalities that never went beyond even if
their
> technique and abilities did.
I think this is a bit harsh: you can enjoy 80% of what you're playing (or
whatever percentage you prefer) and still hate those certain songs. It's not
just those overplayed tunes that put food on the table - it's the complete
package of being a musician: for me it's the Ipanemas but it's also many
fabulous tunes, occasionally some original tunes, it's not just the fighting
drunks, it's often great concerts and attentive audiences and even sometimes
backing up a singer who brings a whole new life to Ipanema. So I don't think
it makes you a spoiled mentality even if you dislike the occasional tune you
have to play. If you hate the totality of your playing experience, it's time
to get out, of course! But I think it's legitimate to complain and/or
dislike a part of the repertoir just like people complain about certain
parts of their jobs.
G.P.
Don Judy
"George Prager" <gtrvox...@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:EOMYc.7453$7i2.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
hate playing, hate life. It's extremely rare that I dislike what I'm playing
if it's in the ballpark; it's not that I'm disinterested but I really feel
music is music is music. Some less than other, granted, but I usually like
what I'm doing. Yesterday I played 5 string with no preparation. I felt like
there was an extra layer of thought involved and it impacted some on how I
felt, but I liked it. I fingerpick a lot and am used to the low E and orient
the lower strings somewhat from that. The thing is when I'm in the middle of
a tune I'm not thinking at all what the tune is; I'm listening to what
others are playing the changes, I feel inside the music. I can get that
from most any tune; music is a close analog to life and playing on the front
edge of the wave gets me off, not doubt. Now when other guys' playing gets
in the way, or the crowd gets onstage or into my mind somehow or even if I
feel I'm just not cutting it for some reason; that bothers me a lot more
than any individual song title.I've been playing After You've Gone for 30
some years now and I still like it every time. I guess some things become
chestnuts in the mind, but the changes are still the same kind of changes I
see every day. Too much talk. Sorry.
dj -- http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/donjudymusic.htm
Gerry
<dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote:
> People that hate playing songs that put food on the table don't
> really like playing is my thought on the matter.
I don't like playing Proud Mary for five bucks or 50. And I still like
to play. That must be a conundrum, huh?
I know some people associate music purely with money, but I gotta say
I've never once equated the playing of any song at any time with
putting food on the table. I've worked gigs I didn't like because I
needed the money--that can't possibly validate me as somebody who then
"likes playing" because I do that.
What if those people, playing the same songs, are buying crack? Does
that mean that they like or don't like playing?
> Spoiled 14 year old mentalities that never went beyond even if their
> technique and abilities did.
I can't begin to wrap my brain around that kind of sweeping judgement.
Conversely it must mean one's thinking is mature if they play songs
they don't like?
I just can't follow the logic, but I know the conclusion is somebody is
very very bad for whatever they are thinking...
Gerry
<dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote:
> ah, you're right there... it's just I hear guys and they sound like they
> hate playing, hate life. It's extremely rare that I dislike what I'm playing
> if it's in the ballpark; it's not that I'm disinterested but I really feel
> music is music is music.
I generally agree with that. But don't you get tired of playing any
songs, despite that they're "in the ball park"? And what of the songs
that aren't in the ballpark? Haven't you made a buck playing those?
That hardly made you a hater of playing or life.
I like all styles of music with scant exception. But I don't like
playing with really drunk players and drunk audiences. Call me a
music-hater, I'd just rather fold my tent and do it at home where i
don't have to worry about the unrelated aspects of commerce. I like
playing too much to make it a day job, replete with cranky bosses,
incompetent peers, deadlines and so forth.
I've made a few guys that might be closer to what you're talking about,
but maybe it's the opposite of what you're talking about: I once asked
an old buddy, a successful professional, to get out his axe so we could
play a few tunes together after many years apart. He told me he didn't
open the case until somebody was writing a check. The end. I was
floored! This was an old friend. I concluded that somewhere along the
line commerce had WHOLLY replaced any interest he may once have had in
the joy of making music. It was like I was asking him to do my taxes,
or something. I think he had begun to think of music that way. He
couldn't possibly have loved music.
George Prager
> an old buddy, a successful professional, to get out his axe so we could
> play a few tunes together after many years apart. He told me he didn't
> open the case until somebody was writing a check.
Interesting tale! Stephane Grappelli once said the same thing when asked to
rehearse (he never rehearsed and I've read he also never practiced..hmmm...)
"I don't take my violin out of the case unless I'm getting paid"
I have a good friend here in Toronto, a very successful movie composer - I'm
talking Hollywood movie scores! I once visited him and he showed me his
office: the place was positively overflowing with CD's, reel-to-reel tapes,
cassettes, LP's, scores, music books etc...He sighed and said: "I can't wait
to retire - I've had it up to here with music" At the time his statement
floored me. But he has continued to write music and has become even more
successful. I don't think it meant he had never loved his profession -
perhaps it just goes to show that you can occasionaly get tired of
everything and anything, music included
G.P.
Don Judy
"Gerry" <222...@spam.really.sucks> wrote in message
> In article <SqSdnVOyLqG...@comcast.com>, Don Judy
> <dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > ah, you're right there... it's just I hear guys and they sound like they
> > hate playing, hate life. It's extremely rare that I dislike what I'm
playing
> > if it's in the ballpark; it's not that I'm disinterested but I really
feel
> > music is music is music.
>
> I generally agree with that. But don't you get tired of playing any
> songs, despite that they're "in the ball park"? And what of the songs
> that aren't in the ballpark? Haven't you made a buck playing those?
> That hardly made you a hater of playing or life.
I make bucks playing music. It just seems sociable even playing out in bars.
I rarely see people totally bombed, usually people getting a little loose
and having a good time. I guess I'm just maladjusted. Just as often I play
for free. I jam anytime. I have a guitar with me at all times, ,sometimes
the mandolin. I like the piano. I like playing bass. I do play as a social
thing. I play with people just starting out, old timers on the mountain,
rock guys, whatever. I have duets for classical players of C instruments, F
instruments, Bb. Whatever. Most horn players and pianists seem to transpose
well, better than I do on the flyl I do it introspectively at home, I do it
at home to further my technique even though that part doesn't always seem to
help, I do it to express joy, sorrow.even if it doesn't sound like it. I
like to listen, watch too. And yes, I get tired sometimes, sometimes the
mountains looking at hawks from the rocks is a good thing. Pennsylvania is
beautiful. I think I lost interest in reading fiction a long time ago and
replaced it with reading music and just playing in general. Which I came to
late, like I started playing when I was 17, started working on my reading at
18.
> I like all styles of music with scant exception. But I don't like
> playing with really drunk players and drunk audiences. Call me a
> music-hater, I'd just rather fold my tent and do it at home where i
> don't have to worry about the unrelated aspects of commerce. I like
> playing too much to make it a day job, replete with cranky bosses,
> incompetent peers, deadlines and so forth.
I agree, it isn't all perfect by any stretch. I find I look for the good
stuff even on a bad night. Life is short. Way short. Most of my friends from
young adulthood are gone, my family is way smaller than when I started out.
> I've made a few guys that might be closer to what you're talking about,
> but maybe it's the opposite of what you're talking about: I once asked
> an old buddy, a successful professional, to get out his axe so we could
> play a few tunes together after many years apart. He told me he didn't
> open the case until somebody was writing a check. The end. I was
> floored! This was an old friend. I concluded that somewhere along the
> line commerce had WHOLLY replaced any interest he may once have had in
> the joy of making music. It was like I was asking him to do my taxes,
> or something. I think he had begun to think of music that way. He
> couldn't possibly have loved music.
Right, he probably didn't. The money aspect can twist you no matter what
you're doing. I know a bass player like that, does not crack the case
without money being involved but he gets a damn big smile when he plays. Why
is that? I dunno, really.
Don Judy
"Gerry" <222...@spam.really.sucks> wrote in message
> In article <vr6dncG6jIb...@comcast.com>, Don Judy
> <dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > People that hate playing songs that put food on the table don't
> > really like playing is my thought on the matter.
>
> I don't like playing Proud Mary for five bucks or 50. And I still like
> to play. That must be a conundrum, huh?
Look, this a subset of what's happening and the context is if you're gonna
play out you're gonna find yourself in situations that are not optimal. Life
is like that. If you're gonna take the money, try to enjoy it. I absolutely
cannot do things I don't want to do. I don't grit my teeth and say, amn,
this again. It's a mindset. Clearly you enjoy it less than I, and I mean
playing out.
> I know some people associate music purely with money, but I gotta say
> I've never once equated the playing of any song at any time with
> putting food on the table. I've worked gigs I didn't like because I
> needed the money--that can't possibly validate me as somebody who then
> "likes playing" because I do that.
Right. "I worked gigs I didn't like because I needed the money". I don't
think that's happened to me yet. The gig is just a part of something bigger,
but some don't take it that way. Not at all, just the opposite. I play
because I like it, and I'll take money for it too. I've never seen myself as
an artist, but others have. I don't even know what art is. It's a craft for
me,
> What if those people, playing the same songs, are buying crack? Does
> that mean that they like or don't like playing?
It means nothing. It means they buy crack and they play. Separate issues.
Maybe they like playing. Maybe they don't. Maybe they like crack. Maybe they
don't. I don't know. Duke Ellington speaking to maybe Nat Hentoff or Leonard
Feather commenting on an obviously dooged up employee. "I don't understand
that. I'm a pussy man myself." He recognized the humanity there and that he
carried around addictions too. We all get through life in our own way. Some
ways impact on others lives. Words can be viruses that teach approaches to
life that are not necessary to explore. Toxic like lifestyles that ruin the
lives of those around one.
> > Spoiled 14 year old mentalities that never went beyond even if their
> > technique and abilities did.
>
> I can't begin to wrap my brain around that kind of sweeping judgement.
> Conversely it must mean one's thinking is mature if they play songs
> they don't like?
Bad logic and my statement was too sweeping too but If you're mature you can
handle a difficult situation better than someonw who isn't mature. Put "can"
between "they" and "play". Second, as I said, if there are specific songs
you don't like cause you play them too much or you just don't like the
phrasing or whatever, think on how many times you've played a ii V I
progression, a I IV, a I IV IVm, a I vi ii V. You hate em? Hate having to
play progressions you don't like? Being able to handle it means you can
rise above, you don't have to be thinking of yourself the whole time. As a
matter of fact, music definitely takes me the other way. you don't have to
be thinking of yourself
> I just can't follow the logic, but I know the conclusion is somebody is
> very very bad for whatever they are thinking...
Nobody gets to play the perfect music in the perfect locale for the perfect
people all the time, or rather no one is guaranteed that. Like Judy Tenuta
says, It could happen. I just think the I hate that song attitude is a
little juvenile. Btw, I love what (insert big jazz name) does with Satin
Doll. But what a crummy tune, eh? Could it be he wasn't thinking about what
a downer overplayed song it was and how he was deserving of a better tune?
Maybe he doesn't even think about himself when he plays. Maybe narcissism
gets in the way and self needs to be left behind in order to play well. I
heard Liona Boyd playing Recuerdos De La Alhambra as an encore one time.
Maybe she was thinking what an overplayed piece of fluff, but she sure had a
lot of tone and nuance invested and that means she worked on it. Oh yeah,
and juvenile doesn't mean bad. You could look it up.
dj
Gerry
<dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > ah, you're right there... it's just I hear guys and they sound like
> > > they hate playing, hate life. It's extremely rare that I dislike
> > > what I'm playing if it's in the ballpark; it's not that I'm
> > > disinterested but I really feel music is music is music.
> >
> > I generally agree with that. But don't you get tired of playing any
> > songs, despite that they're "in the ball park"? And what of the songs
> > that aren't in the ballpark? Haven't you made a buck playing those?
> > That hardly made you a hater of playing or life.
>
> I make bucks playing music. It just seems sociable even playing out in bars.
> I rarely see people totally bombed, usually people getting a little loose
> and having a good time. I guess I'm just maladjusted.
If you say so. I don't make judgements about people, based on the kind
of music they like to play or where they play it. I only know what
pleases and displeases me.
I know this: money and music in my mind have no correlation. I like it
that way. I don't play music I don't like, but I'd gladly play music
that was marginal if it was in conjunction with enthusiastic players,
engaged audiences etc. With or without money makes no difference.
I'm not asking for much; hell I'm not asking for anything. But when it
comes to making money by using music to play bullshit (of whatever
variety), i'd rather do corporate bullshit because it doesn't hotwire
itself into the substance of my true heart: music.
I don't condemn others for doing just that: playing music they hate to
feed their babies. Who could?! I don't condemn anybody at all,
including those who've betrayed their dreams and have come up with a
good reason to mask the whole thing. I'm sure they had a very good
reason. LIfe is really good at doling out the "very good reason" to do
almost any miserable thing.
Gerry
<dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > People that hate playing songs that put food on the table don't
> > > really like playing is my thought on the matter.
> >
> > I don't like playing Proud Mary for five bucks or 50. And I still
> > like to play. That must be a conundrum, huh?
>
> Look, this a subset of what's happening and the context is if you're
> gonna play out you're gonna find yourself in situations that are not
> optimal.
If you're gonna play "in" they won't be optimal. Life is not optimal.
> Life is like that. If you're gonna take the money, try to enjoy it. I
> absolutely cannot do things I don't want to do. I don't grit my teeth
> and say, amn, this again. It's a mindset. Clearly you enjoy it less
> than I, and I mean playing out.
Clearly nothing: I stopped playing horseshit music with jackasses
because it wasn't worth the pay. Had the pay been better, I'd have
continued, had the music been better I'd have continued.
> Right. "I worked gigs I didn't like because I needed the money". I
> don't think that's happened to me yet. The gig is just a part of
> something bigger, but some don't take it that way. Not at all, just
> the opposite. I play because I like it, and I'll take money for it
> too. I've never seen myself as an artist, but others have. I don't
> even know what art is. It's a craft for me,
The topic we never cover when this subject comes up, which it does
often is this: Who covers the bills when the work gets meager? I've
never met a full-time successful local musician, a b-stringer if you
will, who didn't have a wife with a good solid corporate job. I
piggy-backed portions of my marginal career that-a-way. There's
certainly a lot of chatter about not working a day job because it's
just too ghastly that doesn't answer the question, "Where does the rent
come from when work is slim." Or "Where is it exactly where the work
never thins out?"
> > What if those people, playing the same songs, are buying crack?
> > Does that mean that they like or don't like playing?
>
> It means nothing. It means they buy crack and they play. Separate
> issues. Maybe they like playing. Maybe they don't. Maybe they like
> crack. Maybe they don't. I don't know.
Well maybe, apropos of what was said earlier "People that hate playing
songs that put food on the table" really do like music after all,
because their love of music has nothing to do with food or tables.
> Second, as I said, if there are specific songs you don't like cause
> you play them too much or you just don't like the phrasing or
> whatever, think on how many times you've played a ii V I progression,
> a I IV, a I IV IVm, a I vi ii V. You hate em? Hate having to play
> progressions you don't like?
That's word games. No I don't hate screws and bolts and wood. But that
house looks ugly no matter what it's made of. I have no complaints
with the basic substructure of music. I have complaints with
repetitive uninteresting music.
> Being able to handle it means you can rise above, you don't have to
> be thinking of yourself the whole time. As a matter of fact, music
> definitely takes me the other way. you don't have to be thinking of
> yourself.
I'd rather be thinking of myself than being some noble noble soul that
is repeatedly playing a crummy song.
> > I just can't follow the logic, but I know the conclusion is
> > somebody is very very bad for whatever they are thinking...
>
> Nobody gets to play the perfect music in the perfect locale for the
> perfect people all the time, or rather no one is guaranteed that.
You're guaranteed that you can make your own decisions about everyting
if you don't tether music to money and to your rent. That's my only
point. Believe it or not, music has value when you play it without
money being involved.
Patrick L.
> Or do you play for other people?
>
> Pt
I like Monk's answer, which was do your own thing, and if you do it long
enough, others will catch onto it. He lived his words.
Patrick
Lumpy
> You're guaranteed that you can make your own decisions
> about everyting if you don't tether music to money and
> ...music has value when you play it
> without money being involved.
I keep interpreting your theory as if your corporate
job is 100% perfect all the time and you never have
to do anything that you're not crazy about. Surely
your day job has some butt heads to deal with or
some tasks that are less than desireable.
Perhaps I misunderstand you.
For me at least, I am very happy to pay my rent
with music. Much happier than if I were to pay
my rent by punching a clock or wearing dockers
on 'casual friday'. I play complex compositions
that challenge the limits of my musical capabilities
and thinking, and I play Margaritaville. I charge
for both. I usually make more money with Margaritaville.
But both of them I play to my absolute best and people
that hear it enjoy it.
And I usually get laid.
Gerry
<lu...@digitalcartography.com> wrote:
> > You're guaranteed that you can make your own decisions about
> > everyting if you don't tether music to money and to your rent...
>
> > ...music has value when you play it without money being involved.
>
> I keep interpreting your theory as if your corporate job is 100%
> perfect all the time and you never have to do anything that you're
> not crazy about.
I didn't speak to the content of the day job at all. I know that no
matter what I do at the day job it has nothing to do with my art.
> Surely your day job has some butt heads to deal with or some tasks
> that are less than desireable.
>
> Perhaps I misunderstand you.
You did, and I'm not sure how. A day-job certainly has it's
liabilities. All human contact does I guess. I have less concern being
subservient to others' demands (butt-heads or others) at a job that
isn't attached to my soul. When it is, it can be far more for me to
navigate.
> For me at least, I am very happy to pay my rent with music. Much
> happier than if I were to pay my rent by punching a clock or wearing
> dockers on 'casual friday'.
Point of curioisity: what happens when the gigs thin out over a period
of weeks or months? Do you not pay the rent, or have you saved for
such occasions, or do you borrow money? That may be too personal a
question, and if it is, you can forego it. It is one of the things
that made working professionally a periodically anxiety-ridden process.
> I play complex compositions that challenge the limits of my musical
> capabilities and thinking, and I play Margaritaville. I charge for
> both. I usually make more money with Margaritaville. But both of them
> I play to my absolute best and people that hear it enjoy it.
I think that's great and I'm glad it works for you and makes you happy.
I don't judge you negatively in any way for it. I'd assume you and
others wouldn't judge me negatively because I don't want to be limited
by the musics that others will pay for, and then feel obligated to
please them in the way one must in commercial circumstances. That's
just my choice, too.
To my thinking that doesn't make mine a 14-year-old's mentality, a
music-hater or anything else.
Pt
<gtrvox...@canoemail.com> wrote:
>I have a good friend here in Toronto, a very successful movie composer - I'm
>talking Hollywood movie scores! I once visited him and he showed me his
>office: the place was positively overflowing with CD's, reel-to-reel tapes,
>cassettes, LP's, scores, music books etc...He sighed and said: "I can't wait
>to retire - I've had it up to here with music" At the time his statement
>floored me. But he has continued to write music and has become even more
>successful. I don't think it meant he had never loved his profession -
>perhaps it just goes to show that you can occasionaly get tired of
>everything and anything, music included
>
>G.P.
>
If you do the same thing day in and day out for 40 years you do get
tired of it whether you like it or not.
This leads me to wonder where are all the old guitar players who were
so popular 20-40 years ago?
Pt
Pt
play?
Most of the time a band has a singer and we have to play what the can
or will sing.
In most cases we are not guitar stars.
We provide the music for the singer to sing to.
If we're lucky we get a solo.
Pt
Lumpy
> ...A day-job certainly has it's
> liabilities. All human contact does I guess. I have less
> concern being subservient to others' demands (butt-heads or
> others) at a job that isn't attached to my soul...
Now I think I see where my difficulty in understanding
your point lies. I have never had a job that isn't
"attached to my soul". Even flipping burgers at
Mac's when I was a kid was important enough to
me to do my very best.
I'm not suggesting you don't do your best or
commenting on your maturity or any of that.
It seems that I have managed to embrace
the zen of doing music for a living. It seems
that you, on the other hand, require some level
of personal fulfillment that you haven't been
able to get with music as a business. That's not a slam
in the least. I hope that your approach to music,
that is keeping the money factor out of it, allows
you to love the groove.
> Point of curioisity: what happens when the gigs thin
> out over a period of weeks or months?...
I've always been able to work as much as I liked and
even turn down jobs that I don't want. But the answer
to your question "What would I do if the gigs thinned out?"
is probably the same thing that you might do if
your corporation downsized and you got laid off.
I'd focus on other "gigs", performing, recording,
transcribing, teaching etc.
It's a good and very real topic for discussion.
I don't consider you, Gerry, a music hater or
a 14 year old.
D.Onstenk
screens.
#####
Gerry
<no...@noplace.com> wrote:
> Without being prima donna's do we really have a choice of what we
> play?
We always have choices. But logically, we always have repercussions
regarding those choices. "Prima donna" is a loaded word that means
"somebody who does what they want" and also "a prick". So setting that
aside, you can play any highly selected and or offensive music you
like. If an audience is important to you, you might have to balance
your need versus the audience's need.
Which is, not and forever, what this conversation is about.
> Most of the time a band has a singer and we have to play what the can
> or will sing.
You can sing. You can play strictly instrumental. You can get a new
vocalist.
> In most cases we are not guitar stars. We provide the music for the
> singer to sing to. If we're lucky we get a solo.
--
Gerry
<lu...@digitalcartography.com> wrote:
> Gerry wrote:
>
> > ...A day-job certainly has it's liabilities. All human contact does
> > I guess. I have less concern being subservient to others' demands
> > (butt-heads or others) at a job that isn't attached to my soul...
>
> Now I think I see where my difficulty in understanding your point lies.
> I have never had a job that isn't "attached to my soul". Even flipping
> burgers at Mac's when I was a kid was important enough to me to do my
> very best.
You're confused with my viewpoint again. When I say "attached to my
soul" I'm not saying "something I care about". I always do my best at
any job, that's a matter of self respect. I've quit jobs they only
wanted me to do a half-ass job on because I couldn't get with that kind
of thinking.
Music, is my soui. Doing a good job well is something else. Pardon
the metaphor.
> I'm not suggesting you don't do your best or commenting on your
> maturity or any of that. It seems that I have managed to embrace the
> zen of doing music for a living. It seems that you, on the other hand,
> require some level of personal fulfillment that you haven't been able
> to get with music as a business. That's not a slam in the least. I hope
> that your approach to music, that is keeping the money factor out of
> it, allows you to love the groove.
Not taken as a slam, and a valid assessment. When I want to dabble,
"dilettante" as I might be, with Bulgarian music, I don't have to
figure out a way to sell it at the club. I just do it.
> > Point of curioisity: what happens when the gigs thin out over a
> > period of weeks or months?...
>
> I've always been able to work as much as I liked and even turn down
> jobs that I don't want. But the answer to your question "What would I
> do if the gigs thinned out?" is probably the same thing that you might
> do if your corporation downsized and you got laid off. I'd focus on
> other "gigs", performing, recording, transcribing, teaching etc.
>
> It's a good and very real topic for discussion. I don't consider you,
> Gerry, a music hater or a 14 year old.
Thanks, bro!