Nothing like a good controversy....I mean discussion...
Blind Broccoli
read the following on the Carol Kaye website, on a thread called "Solid Body
for Jazz," and I wondered what you pros' opinions were. Recent Jimmy Bruno
posts suggest that for the working musician, laminate is preferable to solid
carved tops, but he doesn't go this far...what do you think?
"I think it's a waste of money to buy an arch-top. My little ol' Ibanez can
beat ANY arch-top for sound -- when I play out with it, the guitarists just
all look dismayed as they can tell I sound better than they do on their
$5-6,000 piece of green wood guitars that they have to work so HARD at to
play, while it's just for looks mainly. The sounds are in the electrics IF
you have the Seymour Duncan Humbucker replacement pickups, the elec. guitar
flatwounds of George Bensons' (Thomastik) and the Polytone Amps....
But all the archtoppers have the Polytone and some even have fine strings,
the difference? The slab-electrics get a better sound and they certainly
feel better to play.
It used to be back in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s that the archtops like the
L-5s, the Epiphone Emperors were the Kings of great guitar sounds of their
day....but then they ran out of aged wood. It's just an image thing now
imo."
That is Carol Kaye writing. In another post further down on the same thread
she writes:
"I hate to be so down on archtops, but their day had passed a long time
ago, and I don't even like the so-called custom ones, probably because the
aged wood just isn't available like it once was. My teacher (Howard Roberts'
teacher who taught all the finer guitarists out here) was always consulted
by Gibson reps where he taught in Long Beach, that's how I met Tiny
Timbrell, once a fine studio guitarist and just the finest rep that Gibson
ever had....
and I remember the conversation very well that Japan has the last stands of
aged wood and Martin had sewn up that supply....in the EARLY 1950s. Gibson
was really worried big-time as their finer guitars, the L-5, the L-7, Super
400 etc. all required the finest of aged wood. Now those were fine guitars,
all the rest since then to me is just dressing....and don't sound good to
boot.
The highly touted ES 175, a good jazz box (rosewood fingerboard) btw used by
the best including Joe Pass, was really made with ordinary wood, nothing
special as the sound was in the pickups even in that archtop, but the
feedback ay ay ay! And still, who wants to put their right arm around that
much width anymore when you can get a great sound with a little cheap
slab-bodied electric as about 1/10th the price. I sold my ES 175 back in the
1980s for what I paid for it: $350 and I still think that's what they're
worth."
Strong opinions. What do you think, especially those of you who play out
and record a lot?
BB
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Pt
But I do play out often and I do play jazz.
In a way I agree with solid body guitars being the most useful.
There is no feedback problem, it doesn't matter how old the wood is
and they are comfortable to play.
But I still think that the 175's, L-5's and 400's are the most
beautiful guitars out there.
Guitars are like women.
If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings.
You just can't have the best of both worlds.
Pt
Kevin Van Sant
<blindb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
<X7rVc.29973$nx2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> :
She's entitled to her opinion. But so am I, and I completely disagree
with her. For one thing I do in fact prefer to put my right arm
around that much width. And leaving the acoustic element aside for
the moment, I also MUCH prefer the electric sound of my L5 to that of
my 175 to that of ANY solid body played through ANY amp. And I think
it's very easy to hear the difference.
I don't know a whole lot about aged wood and all that doesn't really
interest me. But I do know if you put a guitar in my lap I can tell
you if I think it sounds good or not. That's all I care about.
I thought she was a bass player anyway? Has she got some jazz clips
up of her "little ol' Ibanez" somewhere to support her contentions?
I've never heard a guitar, solid or hollow, which had me feeling
dismayed about my L5.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, hear sound clips, see videos, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
Kevin Van Sant
message <qsfci01lm6r3g8eu3...@4ax.com> :
>If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings.
>You just can't have the best of both worlds.
I can honestly say there are no shortcomings to my L5. It sounds
great, feels great, looks great, stays in tune great, doesn't
feedback. I don't know what constitutes "both" worlds, but in jazz
guitar world, I feel like I've got the best.
Pete Kerezman
When it comes to what kind of axe to grind on, use whatever smokes
yer shorts. Jazz can't possibly be a particular species of guitar
because it gets played on so many other musical instruments.
Texas Pete
Max Leggett
wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:22:37 GMT, Pt <no...@noplace.com> wrote in
>message <qsfci01lm6r3g8eu3...@4ax.com> :
>
>>If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings.
>>You just can't have the best of both worlds.
>
>I can honestly say there are no shortcomings to my L5. It sounds
>great, feels great, looks great, stays in tune great, doesn't
>feedback. I don't know what constitutes "both" worlds, but in jazz
>guitar world, I feel like I've got the best.
No arguments there. An archtop sounds so different from a solid body -
amplified, at volume - that I can't see the shortcomings. Some people,
of course, prefer a solidbody's tone, which is cool, but I don't much
understand Carol's comments. If she's a petite woman, then I can see
an archtop being uncomfortable, but saying that people, by which I
assume she means professionals, prefer the sound of her solidbody to
their archtops ..... uh, no. Jimmy Bruno, Bob Conti, John Pizzarelli,
and a host of others might be wrong, but I've owned solidbodies and
archtops and I can't see any shortcomings that go along with, to my
ears, the archtop's superior tone. 'Course, when I play Skank Metal
then my BC Rich Warrior - solidbody, natch, with the death's head
decal - rewls, but I can't dial in a tone on any solidbody I've
played that remotely compares to the moderately priced archtops I can
afford.
Keith Freeman
same range of sounds on a solid-body that I can get from my Jazzica - I'll
still stick with my Jazzica...
-Keith
Music samples, tips, Portable Changes at
http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
E-mail: keith DOT freeman AT wanadoo DOT nl
David Moss
> Opinions wanted. Honestly I think there is no right or wrong on this, but
I
> read the following on the Carol Kaye website, on a thread called "Solid
Body
> for Jazz," and I wondered what you pros' opinions were.
Well, Carol says at least 3 times in that article she thinks
solid bodies sound better. That means, she admits she
can hear a difference between solid body and archtop sounds.
And once you admit there's a difference, then which is better
is obviously a matter of taste.
My own opinion, I have a Tele with humbuckers (Fender,
not Seymour Duncan), strung with Thomastik 11 flatwounds
and played through an AER Compact 60. For my ears it
produces a really nice jazzy tone, and it's probably all a
player of my ability really needs for jazz. But it doesn't
sound like my archtop, it's different. Just the sustain makes
it feel quite different to play, I get different inspirations and
play different things.
Sure I can understand people preferring solid bodies - Mike
Stern, Ed Bickert, or even Jimi Hendrix for that matter. But
other people prefer the archtop look, feel and sound, and
I'm sorry but I really can't understand what any musician gets
out of dissing other musicians' instrument preferences.
Pete Kerezman
Leggett) wrote:
>I can't dial in a tone on any solidbody I've
>played that remotely compares to the moderately priced archtops I can
>afford.
Again I reiterate that a Wes-like tone (as per Smokin' At The Half
Note) can be had from my Gibson faded series Les Paul Doublecut with
the P-90 pickups. When I hit the magic combination of guitar & amp
settings I almost couldn't believe it myself! If I ever get something
recorded and converted to put up on soundclick I'll use that one just
to demonstrate.
Texas Pete
thom_j
Ditto on what TX Pete sayz... cheers thom_j.
--
A Short Look Into My Legacy
http://www.n2rif.com/alexis/alexis_1.htm
Don Judy
"Pete Kerezman" <pete...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:s3lci0l4aqs3ej9e9...@4ax.com...
Pete,
I had an SG Pro that had P-90s and even with a Bigsby it nailed that Wes
tone pretty well. I've thought of getting an LP double cutaway for the P-90s
because I miss that sound. On the other hand I own a Westone (Thunder I)
with humbuckers and it doesn't come close to the Wes tone.
dj
GregD/oasysco
GregD/oasysco
> I am by no means a pro jazzer.
This gores for flattops, archtops, solids (though none fo them are what I'd
call beautiful... OK, ok, some LP's are pretty attractive) and some of the
PRS' 'aint bad either.
Greg
>
> Pt
Mark Cally
V acoustically as well as the sound coming through the amp. I love the
acoustic sound of my guitar, and it's a hundred miles away from any
175 I ever heard. If I played a solid body, I wouldn't have that
option at all. Also, I like the size and feel of a real guitar, and
feel it resonating against my ribcage, not a slab of wood with a
couple of pickups attached. I've had that guitar for over 20 years,
and I regularly play it live and often pretty loud. I don't have
feedback problems. There really is no comparison between a fine
archtop and a solid body for jazz. I know some people play jazz on a
solidbody like a tele, and get a good sound. Good luck to them. For me
there's nothing like the real deal.
MBR
I prefer a guitar with some wooden, acoustic properties. It feels
better, sounds better, and to me, is much more inspiring to play than
a solid body. That's the main thing; if it inspires you to play then
it's probably worth it. I can almost always tell the difference in
sound between solid and hollowbody guitars and there's no contest if
you are after a tradtional jazz sound. I do agree that archtops have
just gotten way too expensive, and there are often diminishing returns
for all that money you have to shell out for a boutique archtop. But
if you find the right one, then you've got a lovely instrument for the
rest of your life and in that case it's worth the money. I would also
agree that feedback can be an issue and I sometimes cover the f-holes
or opt to play a semi-hollow guitar in certain situations. As far as
the little old ibanez is concerned, it's true that some cheap archtops
can be okay for gigs... to a point. My hunch is, given the choice,
most players will opt for a better guitar made of better materials.
-Mark R
thomas
much more comfortable for her. But I am a very tall
man, and a fat, 17" archtop is more comfortable for me
than any solid-body.
At high volumes, I agree that the tonal advantages of
a good archtop are not as apparent, and feedback becomes
an issue, and electronics shape more of the sound than
the wood box. So if you're playing live with a loud band,
I agree with her.
But the quieter you get, the closer you get to acoustic,
clearly the box is going to beat out the solid body, aged
wood or not. Anyone who appreciates an acoustic component
to their guitar is not going to be satisfied with the slab.
Even if the acoustic element doesn't come across through the
amp, the player feels it in his chest, and it affects how
you play.
"Blind Broccoli" <blindb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<X7rVc.29973$nx2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Jimmy Bruno
jazz sound form a laminate or an L5 with two PU where the top doesn't
vibrate. A solid body is slightly different, it's all electric . Which
sometimes I like, depending on the music
"Blind Broccoli" <blindb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:X7rVc.29973$nx2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Greger Hoel
>Opinions wanted.
(on hollowbody vs. solidbody guitars)
All the various guitar designs have differences in timbre and
attack/decay envelope, when compared to one another. Especially the
attack on a typical hollowbody has a much higher dynamic potential
than a typical solidbody. You won't hear anybody playing Freddie Green
style on a Les Paul. That's because a Paul compresses when you hit it
that hard.and fast.
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Evans
(playing with some well-known people) before she took up
bass. I think she did this, at least initially, primarily for economic
reasons as she was the sole provider for her
children and her studio work was quite lucrative.
I must admit I prefer the full bodied jazz guitar tone but
I've never managed to play one of those in a situation where
I've had to turn up to be heard (as with a big band, for example)
without encountering feedback problems. I bought a thinline guitar
(Howard Roberts Fusion) for thse situations and that gets pretty close
to a full-bodied tone and no feedback. I do agree
with her comments about the ES-175, however. I used
to own one of these circa 1960 vintage. I sold it for an exorbitant
price to purchase a Campellone Standard (visually like an L5
but a single floating pick-up). The Campellone has much better tone
but it is even more prone to feedback than the 175.
Mike
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:v2gci0pvlmotcceu5...@4ax.com...
GregD/oasysco
Pinging off your post...
Why don't you all play Strats? It's what Hendrix used and to think
anybody here will have the impact Hendrix had on the music scene is
ridiculous. Do any of you think that you know better what to play than
he did?
While we're at it, why don't you all play expensive Benedetto's? Do any
of you think you're better than Jimmy Bruno in this idiom? Then why do
you play anything other than a Benedetto (or a Sadowsky)?
I've always wondered why you all who call yourselves jazz guitarists
don't play ES-335's like Larry Carlton. Are any of you of the same
reknown as he? Do you really think you know better than a recording jazz
artist what guitar to play?
Why don't each of you play an Ibanez George Benson? You think you know
better than GB what guitar to play? Come on; he's been recording for
longer than some of you have been alive.
I could go on and on, but why? For every well-known artist who plays a
slab solid body, I can find one who plays an archtop, whether solid,
semi, or fully hollow.
Greg
Greger Hoel
wrote:
>Blind Broccoli,
>
>Pinging off your post...
>
>Why don't you all play Strats? It's what Hendrix used and to think
>anybody here will have the impact Hendrix had on the music scene is
>ridiculous. Do any of you think that you know better what to play than
>he did?
>
>While we're at it, why don't you all play expensive Benedetto's? Do any
>of you think you're better than Jimmy Bruno in this idiom? Then why do
>you play anything other than a Benedetto (or a Sadowsky)?
>
>I've always wondered why you all who call yourselves jazz guitarists
>don't play ES-335's like Larry Carlton. Are any of you of the same
>reknown as he? Do you really think you know better than a recording jazz
>artist what guitar to play?
>
>Why don't each of you play an Ibanez George Benson? You think you know
>better than GB what guitar to play? Come on; he's been recording for
>longer than some of you have been alive.
>
>I could go on and on, but why? For every well-known artist who plays a
>slab solid body, I can find one who plays an archtop, whether solid,
>semi, or fully hollow.
Why bother discussing anything at all?
GregD/oasysco
news:ch7di0dj19m8g1veh...@4ax.com:
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:45:28 GMT, "GregD/oasysco" <Yo...@email.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Blind Broccoli,
>>
>>Pinging off your post...
>>
>>Why don't you all play Strats? It's what Hendrix used and to think
>>anybody here will have the impact Hendrix had on the music scene is
>>ridiculous. Do any of you think that you know better what to play than
>>he did?
>>
>>While we're at it, why don't you all play expensive Benedetto's? Do
any
>>of you think you're better than Jimmy Bruno in this idiom? Then why do
>>you play anything other than a Benedetto (or a Sadowsky)?
>>
>>I've always wondered why you all who call yourselves jazz guitarists
>>don't play ES-335's like Larry Carlton. Are any of you of the same
>>reknown as he? Do you really think you know better than a recording
jazz
>>artist what guitar to play?
>>
>>Why don't each of you play an Ibanez George Benson? You think you know
>>better than GB what guitar to play? Come on; he's been recording for
>>longer than some of you have been alive.
>>
>>I could go on and on, but why? For every well-known artist who plays a
>>slab solid body, I can find one who plays an archtop, whether solid,
>>semi, or fully hollow.
>
> Why bother discussing anything at all?
If you want to go that far, OK.
Greg
Skip Moy
type of gtr , besides being great as a catalyst for this discussion , its
also great for the greater guitar economy in general.
What if we were all limited to one gtr what would you choose ? right now I'm
favouring a GB 200 or maybe a two pickup L-5 or .....
Skip
"GregD/oasysco" <Yo...@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns954BDD1DABE...@68.12.19.6...
GregD/oasysco
news:cg6fbi$li...@imsp212.netvigator.com:
> why not have more than one gtr , solid ,semi solid and full bodied
> archtop type of gtr , besides being great as a catalyst for this
> discussion , its also great for the greater guitar economy in general.
> What if we were all limited to one gtr what would you choose ? right
> now I'm favouring a GB 200 or maybe a two pickup L-5 or .....
> Skip
I couldn't agree more, but the original thread was only use slab gutiars
because some gigging players say so. My reply was tongue-in-cheek as to
how ridiculous it would be to let gigging play4ers control what
instrument you choose since there are so many good giggin players, you'd
end up owning most every gutiar made! Hmmm, maybe not such a bad idea
after all.
Greg
pataud
Just for curiosity's sake, what were those amp and guitar settings? What
sort of amp?
Steve
I have played many jobs with solidbodies; and with hollow archtops, both
laminated and solid woods.
There's more to the experience than purely questions of feedback and
suitable tone.
I appreciate the tone my archtop has unplugged while I'm practising. Then
when I use the same guitar on a job it is familiar feeling.
There is also a different angle to my picking/strumming arm with an archtop
vs a solidbody.
And finally, yes there is a different vibe against the chest.
I have gotten excellent sounds from a solidbody, but it usually takes more
finageling. It seems for me a traditional archtop design (I happen to prefer
solid woods for a couple of reasons) is just easier and quicker to dial in
the sound I'm looking for in almost all but the biggest venues.
I used a Telecaster for years, playing Showtunes and Standards jobs in 1,000
seaters, but still prefer my present Heritage H-575 now for everything. I
only get big rooms a couple of times a year now, and it's fine there too.
The P.A.'s are better now.
-SteveYetter-
David Moss
"Blind Broccoli" wrote...
[Quoting Carol Kaye]
>"$350 and I still think that's what they're worth."
Funny how the people who think ES-175s are only
worth $350 never have one they want to sell.
MBR
Steve, How do you like your 575? Is it a maple top or spruce? I've
been lusting after one for awhile but the ones I've played haven't
felt quite right. Action gets a little high above the 9th fret.
Perhaps this was due to less than perfect setups. Are you able to set
up the guitar with say 1/16 action at the 12th or 14th fret?
-Mark R
Pt
wrote:
I think my Guild Bluesbird P-90 is one of the prettiest (almost) solid
body guitars made.
Looks like a pregnant LP.
Pt
Pt
wrote:
>why not have more than one gtr , solid ,semi solid and full bodied archtop
>type of gtr , besides being great as a catalyst for this discussion , its
>also great for the greater guitar economy in general.
>What if we were all limited to one gtr what would you choose ? right now I'm
>favouring a GB 200 or maybe a two pickup L-5 or .....
>Skip
I'd have to go with what I got.
Guild Bluesbird P-90 chambered body.
Pt
Gerry
Cally <mile...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
> There really is no comparison between a fine archtop and a solid body
> for jazz.
Actually that's *all* there is--endless comparison. And that makes
sense. Just like comparions between a vine-grown tomato and a 1958
Buick--nothing but differences!
> I know some people play jazz on a solidbody like a tele, and get a
> good sound. Good luck to them. For me there's nothing like the real
> deal.
I think that Ed Bickert, on his tele, is the real deal. Of course I
also think that Van Eps is the real deal. There are many real deals.
--
Invest wisely: Over the past 75 years, stocks have averaged annual gains of 2.3
percent under GOP administrations, compared with 9.5 under Democratic ones.
-- Jerry Heaster
Gerry
<gre...@spammersgetbent.net> wrote:
> Why bother discussing anything at all?
Why bother getting out of bed in the morning--because we're fools,
every one!
Me I endlessly go back and forth between solid and archtop. They are
two very similar instruments but have unique qualities.
Generally echoing what others have said: the archtop actually "pushes
air", so I get this feeling and sound in a room that is more gratifying
and I feel more connected to the guitar and the music.
On the other hand if the setting is loud enough, or the room large
enough, I can no longer feel or hear the accoustic properties. I feel
like I'm having to push the instrument too hard and for no uniquely
archtop qualities.
Under these circumstances the might and power and ease of tone
production on a solidbody come into their own. I have all the vastly
subtle nuance in feel on a solidbody at that point that I rarely do
with an archtop in more restrained settings.
Pt
Pt
pataud
> What's the difference between a tomato and a 1958 Buick?
>
> Pt
20 bucks, same as in town.
Ra
> What's the difference between a tomato and a 1958 Buick?
> Pt
What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?
( I actually asked a BMW driving boss that once )
--
best regards,
Ra
----------------------------------------------------
http://surfpick.com
Lignum Vitae
----------------------------------------------------
Steve
never seemed to have any) seemed to have been solved. I guess their Plek
machine is used on all guitars?
My '03 H-575 has the solid maple throughout construction, and I like it a
whole lot.
The action can be adjusted way lower than I'll ever use and it still won't
buzz. I think it could withstand 1/16" at the 12th fret no problem.
I use it a bit higher than that because my technique is sloppy and I need
all the help I can get for clean sounding individual notes. A bit of
resistance keeps me more defined sounding.
It's not high action by any means, but this guitar is willing to go as low
as I think anyone would suffer it to go. The fret board seems precision
enough, though not fancy looking, and it is unbound, which I prefer for
future fret jobs.
The sound tends toward mellow because of the wooden bridge, but it sounds
very close to my friend's L4-C through similiar Polytones. Slightly more
midrangey.
I run the neck pickup fairly close to the strings. I guess they're Schaller
pickups, which people seem to diss, but it sounds good to me.
Any harshness can be dialed out with the tone pot and the guitar has a
lively enough sound that it has a quite hornlike sound on the trebles when
you dig in. I generally run the tone pot wide open on the guitar, and this
with most of the bright boost on the Polytone.
I really like the maple top's sound (it's solid), but a solid spruce top
seems capable of some extra brightness. I had an Eagle that sounded similiar
to this guitar, though it had a longer scale neck.
Probably a tune-o-matic would add some high end brightness, but I don't seem
to need it.
The maple has a good sound. I was afraid it might be too midrangey or harsh,
because acoustically it tends to be a bit. But when plugged in it's quite
mellow and capable of some sweetness, though my friend's L4-C is a touch
sweeter.
Hope this helps.
-SteveYetter-
Steve
"Gerry" <222...@spam.really.sucks> wrote in message:
...
> Generally echoing what others have said: the archtop actually "pushes
> air", so I get this feeling and sound in a room that is more gratifying
> and I feel more connected to the guitar and the music.
>
> On the other hand if the setting is loud enough, or the room large
> enough, I can no longer feel or hear the accoustic properties. I feel
> like I'm having to push the instrument too hard and for no uniquely
> archtop qualities.
>
> Under these circumstances the might and power and ease of tone
> -- Jerry Heaster
I agree wholeheartedly with this (Jerry's) summation.
-SteveYetter-
Roger Sadowsky
agree with them---especially on this one. Her comments about "green
wood" are totally ignorant and so is her statement that the
electronics create the sound more than the wood or the construction.
For 25 years I have been advocating that even in solid body guitars
and basses, the wood is the most important factor affecting the tone
of the instrument. The thought that just installing a particular
Seymour Duncan pickup in any guitar is all you need to get a great
tone is absurd.
I have built solid body guitars for many jazz players, most notably
Chuck Loeb, Jeff Richman, John Abercrombie and Mike Stern. I am
currently building one for Jimmy Bruno. For the right player they are
the preferred guitar. But to diss archtops the way Carol did is
beyond bizarre. That is like her saying that "a bass player only
needs to play a Fender bass and upright basses are a waste, especially
with that green wood the new uprights are built with. Besides, if you
install the right pickup on your Fender and play through the right
amp, no one will tell the difference." Now that I think of it, that
Steve Bailey Aria Pro 11 that Carol plays does sound better than any
upright bass I ever heard :-).
I have great respect for Carol as a player and her history as a studio
musician but she really does not know anything about guitar
construction, electronics or any of the variables the affect the tone
of the instrument. I know this first hand from when she commissioned
me to build her a bass several years ago. The woman actually tried to
sue Fender because she claimed that the design of the Fender bass
caused her chronic back and shoulder problems. She will probably
threaten to sue me for this post.!
So I'll promise not to tell Carol how to play guitar or bass if she
will promise not to preach about guitar construction and tone.
Roger Sadowsky
Tom Lippincott
David Moss <david.no...@anka.fzk.de> wrote in message
news:2on3oeF...@uni-berlin.de...
> "Blind Broccoli" wrote...
> > Opinions wanted. Honestly I think there is no right or wrong on this,
but
> I
> > read the following on the Carol Kaye website, on a thread called "Solid
> Body
> > for Jazz," and I wondered what you pros' opinions were.
>
> solid bodies sound better. That means, she admits she
> can hear a difference between solid body and archtop sounds.
> And once you admit there's a difference, then which is better
> is obviously a matter of taste.
>
excellent point, old boy. (you have to pronounce that as though you have
mutton chops and a monacle.)
> My own opinion, I have a Tele with humbuckers (Fender,
> not Seymour Duncan), strung with Thomastik 11 flatwounds
> and played through an AER Compact 60. For my ears it
> produces a really nice jazzy tone, and it's probably all a
> player of my ability really needs for jazz. But it doesn't
> sound like my archtop, it's different. Just the sustain makes
> it feel quite different to play, I get different inspirations and
> play different things.
>
aha, and therein lies the key, methinks. Different tools for different
applications. In general, solid bodies or semi-hollows suite my playing
style, and the kinds of settings I tend to play in, the best. Someone else
might not like my tone, but I might not like his, either. I love the sound
of a nice archtop when I play one, but so far I've found that the solid or
semi-hollow thing seems to work best overall for me. I've heard plenty of
great tones come from all sorts of different guitars, and plenty of awful
ones too (but again, this becomes subjective).
as a general rule, in my experience, solid and semi-solid guitars tend to
lend themselves to extensive chordal and contrapuntal work, players who play
with a light touch, players who use lighter strings, players who play in
loud and/or acoustically unfriendly settings a lot, and players who make
moderate to heavy use of effects.
And (in my experience), hollybodies, especially the carved top/floating
pickup variety, tend to lend themselves best to players who play with
heavier strings and and/or a heavier touch, play lots of single note lines,
play less often in loud settings (solo, duos, groups with pre-Elvinesque
drummers who aren't averse to brushes, ect.), record in studios a lot or
play in controlled concert settings a lot, use minimal or no effects.
Not to start any arguments here, but aren't there a lot of carved top
archtop players who end up stuffing their guitars ('70s Pat Martino for
example) in order to get any kind of volume without feedback problems? To
me, once you get into that sort of thing, there's not much difference
between that and a semi-hollow or even a solid body. One thing that's
always sort of prejudiced me toward the solid body thing is the
functional/journeyman characteristic, particularly of solid bodies from the
Fender tradition. They're really easy to work on and almost indestructable;
you don't have to baby them or treat them like some fragile, priceless work
of art. You can kick them around a bit and not get nervous about damaging
them. And if you do put a huge ding in the finish, who cares? It's not
like you sunk the downpayment for a house into the thing (probably not, at
least). But again, this is all just my own opinion, based on my subjective
experience.
> Sure I can understand people preferring solid bodies - Mike
> Stern, Ed Bickert, or even Jimi Hendrix for that matter. But
> other people prefer the archtop look, feel and sound, and
> I'm sorry but I really can't understand what any musician gets
> out of dissing other musicians' instrument preferences.
>
>
>
that's also what it comes down to for me; different strokes for different
folks. I agree with Kevin that it's a bit silly to claim that solid bodies
are "better" for jazz, but it's equally as silly to claim that archtops are.
I think Kevin has a great sound, and the L5 is a big part of his voice and
musical identity; I DON'T think with his style and voice that he'd sound as
good on a solid body. But I also know as a fact that I don't really sound
like "me" when I play a big archtop with telephone cable strings. There's
the old argument that the sound is "in your fingers," but this really is
only true to a certain point. If it's physically impossible for me to do
the things I'm accustomed to doing because of the instrument I'm playing,
I'm going to play differently than I would like to. The only time I've ever
sat in on a borrowed archtop guitar and had a positive experience was a
couple of years back when I played Jonathan Kreisberg's ES175. I found
that, though I did have to play a little more sparsely and deliberately, the
notes just seemed to sing on that thing. He had it set up a little more
"friendly" than most archtops, though. Not quite in Jim Hall territory, but
close. It seemed like he'd found a really nice balance between playability
and fullness of sound with that instrument and the way he had it set up.
Maybe we should take it as implicit that Carol Kaye thinks solid bodies are
better for jazz FOR HER; I don't know, I was too lazy to read the article.
--
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
8 string guitar audio samples at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/tomlippincottmusic.htm
Gerry
<elr...@pacbell.net> wrote:
You clipped Jerry's investment advice. The above is Gerry's musical
perspective instead.
MBR
Thanks for that review, Steve. Much appreciated. I also like the sound
of the maple top with the routed in humbucker. They're making them
with a spruce top and a different pickup system now. It's a nice
guitar too.
-Mark R
icarusi
> Strong opinions. What do you think, especially those of you who play out
> and record a lot?
She's probably got a point. If the original archtops were made with aged
wood, closer to cello/violin practice then the 'out of the box' sound would
likely have a greater contribution from the wood itself rather than the
construction. If the current archtops are made with greener wood only time
will tell if their tone will develop to sound like the originals.
It's always been a compromise trying to get a transducer to reproduce the
nuances of an archtop, by sensing the strings electromagnetically, whilst
the transducer is alos being moved by the string/guitar vibrations. It's
much more predictable to anchor the pickups more solidly, enable their
position to be changed with respect to the strings, and also minimise
variability in timber quality by laminating the top.
It'll be interesting to hear how the sound of the current greener solid tops
develops over time.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
icarusi
news:7d424f23.04082...@posting.google.com...
> Anyone who appreciates an acoustic component
> to their guitar is not going to be satisfied with the slab.
I have acoustics, semi-solid and solid guitars but the one's which interest
me most now are usually either chambered solids, which have some distinctive
resonant element, or guitars from wood-types I didn't already own, such as
Agathis. My current interest is in the Switch/Vibracell guitars. I'm not
sure if it's the Vibracell or the one-piece neck/body construction which is
dictating the sound, but if you're interested in sustainy solids, chambered
guitars and different woods, you should check the Switch/Vibracell range.
They also include midi/hex pickup standard variants.
Kurt Shapiro
there's no where around here that carries them. I've thought about ordering
one just to check it out. Do you own one yet? Have you played one yet?
"icarusi" <icar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4127d322$0$63463$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
Steve
"MBR" <jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message:
...They're making them
> with a spruce top and a different pickup system now. It's a nice
> guitar too.
>
> -Mark R
Yeah, and the Custom version sports bound ebony fretboard.
I have no experience with their new pickups systems. I like the general
luthiery of their guitars though.Familiar feeling, but like an improved
Gibson design (especially the body/neck joint area), IMHO.
Gotta love all solid woods in the H-575 series too!
-SY-
Kurt Shapiro
when I hear mahogany in the construction of an instrument. Even in solid
bodies. Is it all psychological? I kinda' doubt it.
BTW, Mr. Sadowsky, it's an honor to have you over here at rmmgj. Thanks for
stopping by.
"Roger Sadowsky" <ro...@sadowsky.com> wrote in message
news:4da46edf.04082...@posting.google.com...
> Carol Kaye
[snip] etc.
Kurt Shapiro
the hell difference does it make if the wood is green or not?
Ra
> She seems to contradict herself. If the sound is all in the pickups, what
> the hell difference does it make if the wood is green or not?
Here's an interesting choice for those who prefer their jazz on
a chambered Mahogany solid body:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3743659310&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
What do you think it will end up bringing?
Max Leggett
>Here's an interesting choice for those who prefer their jazz on
>a chambered Mahogany solid body:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3743659310&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Yum. Nice ax.
>What do you think it will end up bringing?
I got three boxtops and a secret decoder ring. Think he'll go for it?
Gerry
<tomb...@jhu.edu> wrote:
> Anyone who appreciates an acoustic component to their guitar is not
> going to be satisfied with the slab.
Anyou who appreciates a good steak is not going to be satisfied with a
crepe suzette?
Me, I like both.
Pt
>"Kurt Shapiro" wrote
>
>
>> She seems to contradict herself. If the sound is all in the pickups, what
>> the hell difference does it make if the wood is green or not?
>
>
>
>Here's an interesting choice for those who prefer their jazz on
>a chambered Mahogany solid body:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3743659310&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
>
>
>What do you think it will end up bringing?
Even though I have a chambered Guild Bluesbird I just had to bid on
it.
$2.25
Pt
Kurt Shapiro
"Pt" <no...@noplace.com> wrote in message
news:qcbgi0tf6htlpe3o5...@4ax.com...
Ra
> "Pt" <no...@noplace.com> wrote
> > Even though I have a chambered Guild Bluesbird I just had to bid on
> > it.
> > $2.25
> > Pt
That blows that you got your only negative feedback from a German,
who has nothing BUT negative feedback.
Amazing that this guy's account is still active.
Note to all sellers:
You can now go into preferences and select options
that will block people with an overall negative rating from
bidding on any of your items.
You can also block bidders who are from any country
which is not among the countries that you elected to sell to,
when making your listing.
David Moss
"Tom Lippincott" wrote...
> excellent point, old boy. (you have to pronounce that as though you have
> mutton chops and a monacle.)
That's how I always pronounce things!
> as a general rule, in my experience, solid and semi-solid guitars tend to
> lend themselves to extensive chordal and contrapuntal work
Aha, so that's a known? I was surprised to hear how well the Tele
works for jazz standards played with chord/melody fingerstyle, I
hadn't expected that.
> There's the old argument that the sound is "in your fingers," but
> this really is only true to a certain point.
But it seems to me that "certain point" is a long way down the line.
I'm just now discovering how I can get a darker, "jazzier" (whatever
that means) sound out of my normally light and clear sounding Henneken
by using the fist grip for the pick, giving more angle between pick and
strings. And one thing I know for sure, give Jim Hall an elastic band
nailed to a hunk of driftwood and he'll still sound like Jim Hall, and
he'd probably get a better tone than I would out of a Benedetto.
> Maybe we should take it as implicit that Carol Kaye thinks solid bodies
are
> better for jazz FOR HER; I don't know, I was too lazy to read the article.
No, she said explicitly that *everybody* who owns a $5000 - $6000
archtop looks dismayed when they hear her tone on her "li'l old Ibanez".
Now I come to think of it, that look of dismay she's noticing may
not mean what she thinks it means...
Roger Sadowsky
> Thanks for that confirmation, 'cause lately I've been hearing a sound I like
> when I hear mahogany in the construction of an instrument. Even in solid
> bodies. Is it all psychological? I kinda' doubt it.
Mahogany is a great guitar wood for neck or bodies. It is warm and
rich with full mids. By itself, if can be a little dark which is why
a Les Paul has a maple cap over the mahogany. Also, think of the
difference between a 60's 335 with a mahogany neck and a 70's 335 with
a maple neck. I think the mahogony necked 335's sound much better
than the maple necks. That doesn't mean that mahogany necks "always"
sound better---they don't. But in the case of a 335, I think it
really makes a big difference.
I have not been using too much mahogany lately because it is heavier
than I like. However, the solidbody I am building for Jimmy Bruno has
a mahogany body with a thin maple top.
Mahogany is really one of the great guitar woods.
Roger
Pt
>
>
>> "Pt" <no...@noplace.com> wrote
>
>> > Even though I have a chambered Guild Bluesbird I just had to bid on
>> > it.
>> > $2.25
>
>> > Pt
>
>That blows that you got your only negative feedback from a German,
>who has nothing BUT negative feedback.
>
>Amazing that this guy's account is still active.
I tried to get ebay to remove it but they ignored me.
Pt
Joe Finn
"Blind Broccoli" <blindb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:X7rVc.29973$nx2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
I
> read the following on the Carol Kaye website, on a thread called "Solid
Body
> posts suggest that for the working musician, laminate is preferable to
solid
> carved tops, but he doesn't go this far...what do you think?
Laminates and semi solid designs are nice because they are really sturdy.
They travel well. Travelling with an archtop can make you worry a little. An
archtop is pretty delicate. You can drop a laminate like a 175 and pick it
right back up and play it, but not an archtop.
> "I think it's a waste of money to buy an arch-top. My little ol' Ibanez
can
> beat ANY arch-top for sound -- when I play out with it, the guitarists
just
> all look dismayed as they can tell I sound better than they do on their
> $5-6,000 piece of green wood guitars that they have to work so HARD at to
> play, while it's just for looks mainly. The sounds are in the electrics IF
> you have the Seymour Duncan Humbucker replacement pickups, the elec.
guitar
> flatwounds of George Bensons' (Thomastik) and the Polytone Amps....
This is a pretty strange statement. She is entitled to her opinion but there
will be lots of disagreement too.
I play an archtop. It's my everyday guitar: gigs, teaching, practicing,
everything. Although my guitar is new it has a 40 year old top. The back and
sides are about ten years old. The guitar looks great and plays itself. The
action is right where I like it and it is no more difficult to play than
anything else. To my ears it sounds quite a lot better than my ibanez gb-10
both acoustically and amplified.
>
> But all the archtoppers have the Polytone and some even have fine strings,
> the difference? The slab-electrics get a better sound and they certainly
> feel better to play.
That's a matter of opinion. To me a solidbody sounds thin and feels like a
toy. .....joe
--
Visit me on the web www.joefinn.net
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Kurt Shapiro
"Roger Sadowsky" <ro...@sadowsky.com> wrote in message
news:4da46edf.04082...@posting.google.com...
Ra
> I couldn't resist, so I outbid you with a big $10.
You're another one that got hosed on feedback.
One neg from a guy who has been booted off..
and another from a guy who raved about you..
and checked the neg box by mistake!
You've only got a 14 rating.
Those negs will haunt you for ages.
Even after another 80 happy transactions,
you'd still only have less than a 98% rating and wouldn't
even be eligible to be a powerseller, should the occasion arise.
If you should decide to sell things in the future..
Those 2 negs will turn buyers away...
and you need every buyer.
I recently had a guy that got my Resolectric R-1 for about $1200.
I screwed up by scaring people off with a $3000 'Buy It Now' price.
They naturally probably assumed that the reserve price was about $2500.
My winning bidder said he was prepared to pay much more..
but if there is no one to bid against someone..
they will get a guitar for the reserve price.
That's why you can't afford to scare off a single bidder.
I highly suggest that you create a new ID.
(all you need is a different email address)
Buy some CD's or something.. and you'll have 5 or 10 feedbacks in no time.
Start fresh.
Pt
>I recently had a guy that got my Resolectric R-1 for about $1200.
>I screwed up by scaring people off with a $3000 'Buy It Now' price.
>They naturally probably assumed that the reserve price was about $2500.
When I see "Buy it now" I assume that the reserve is the same as the
"Buy it now" price.
It usually is.
Pt
Pt
wrote:
>I play an archtop. It's my everyday guitar: gigs, teaching, practicing,
>everything. Although my guitar is new it has a 40 year old top. The back and
>sides are about ten years old. The guitar looks great and plays itself. The
>action is right where I like it and it is no more difficult to play than
>anything else. To my ears it sounds quite a lot better than my ibanez gb-10
>both acoustically and amplified.
On acoustic guitars the higher the action rhe better the tone.
Is this true on archtops?
Pt
Blind Broccoli
I usually snip irrelevant portions of the post I am replying to on the net,
but this post was so good and so on-topic I quote it in its entirety. As
someone new to the world of jazz and standards, I made my original post only
in an effort to distill the truth from the variety of opinions. I feel I
have received a good dose of truth in this post.
And thanks to all others who got into this conversation. For myself, just
getting into jazz and standards and playing material outside my acoustic
folk/blues/rock/country background, I think the most significant point is
this: at the age of 58, as a newbie to these styles, there is little chance
I will ever be playing a venue large enough where feedback would be a
problem at the level of amplification I would need. And that's the name of
that tune!
BB
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Ra
> >I recently had a guy that got my Resolectric R-1 for about $1200.
> >I screwed up by scaring people off with a $3000 'Buy It Now' price.
> >They naturally probably assumed that the reserve price was about $2500.
> When I see "Buy it now" I assume that the reserve is the same as the
> "Buy it now" price.
> It usually is.
> Pt
In my experience, the reserve is usually about 85%, or so, of the BIN price.
I'm one of those that doesn't like auctions with reserve prices myself...
the only reason I use one.. is so that I could start the auction at $1..
and keep the BIN price from disappearing as soon as the first bid is placed.
I like to keep the BIN available for awhile, because some collectors don't
like to mess with auctions.. and like to just 'Buy it now' , as the name says.
I think I'm gonna abandon the reserve on my next auctions and just have,
for example.. on my Koa Goodall..
a start price of $2450..
and a 'Buy It Now' of $2795.
...or something along those lines.
Ra
> I think I'm gonna abandon the reserve on my next auctions and just have,
> for example.. on my Koa Goodall..
>
> a start price of $2450..
> and a 'Buy It Now' of $2795.
>
> ...or something along those lines.
Sometimes you're hoping that someone snags your guitar
with the 'BIN' ... but it later turns out that you're glad nobody did.
I started my J-185 at $1.
I had a BIN of $1745 and a reserve price of $1100.
It ended up selling for $2025.
Tom Lippincott
David Moss <david.no...@anka.fzk.de> wrote in message
news:2org86F...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Tom Lippincott" wrote...
> > excellent point, old boy. (you have to pronounce that as though you have
> > mutton chops and a monacle.)
>
> That's how I always pronounce things!
wot wot!
> > Maybe we should take it as implicit that Carol Kaye thinks solid bodies
> are
> > better for jazz FOR HER; I don't know, I was too lazy to read the
article.
>
> No, she said explicitly that *everybody* who owns a $5000 - $6000
> archtop looks dismayed when they hear her tone on her "li'l old Ibanez".
>
> Now I come to think of it, that look of dismay she's noticing may
> not mean what she thinks it means...
>
>
ah, indeed.
--
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
8 string guitar audio samples at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/tomlippincottmusic.htm
Kurt Shapiro
bought.
I do have a little faith that anyone serious about something I'm selling
will read the feeback and figure it out. Of course, once I've got a lot of
feedback they may not bother to go through the old feedback.
I should probably start selling some little stuff with my other user ID just
to build it up.
One person I sold something to (izzyozzel) was an Army Seargent stationed in
Germany. He bought an Aardvark 24/96 from me. I gave him a lot of email
tech support type info. A few months later he sent a money order for over
$1,000 to someone for a pair of Mackie monitors. The kid he bought them
from didn't have much feedback. The kid kept his money and never sent the
monitors, while making excuse after excuse. Then the punk finally told Izzy
he put a hole in the monitors and they weren't any good anymore.
Izzy sent me an email asking if there was anything I could do to help him
out, since the kid he bought the monitors from supposedly lived in my State
(Washington).
Somehow I was able to track the kid down from his Ebay info and email
address. Turned out he was a student at Gonzaga University in Spokane. A
lucky coincidence: My wife's first cousin is the Dean of Women at Gonzaga.
We put a little pressure on the kid. It took a while, but Izzy finally got
his money back.
"Ra" <use...@freetoys.com> wrote in message
news:8A4Wc.14705$%n4....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
Ra
> One person I sold something to (izzyozzel) was an Army Seargent stationed in
> Germany. He bought an Aardvark 24/96 from me. I gave him a lot of email
> tech support type info. A few months later he sent a money order for over
> $1,000 to someone for a pair of Mackie monitors. The kid he bought them
> from didn't have much feedback. The kid kept his money and never sent the
> monitors, while making excuse after excuse. Then the punk finally told Izzy
> he put a hole in the monitors and they weren't any good anymore.
>
> Izzy sent me an email asking if there was anything I could do to help him
> out, since the kid he bought the monitors from supposedly lived in my State
> (Washington).
>
> Somehow I was able to track the kid down from his Ebay info and email
> address. Turned out he was a student at Gonzaga University in Spokane. A
> lucky coincidence: My wife's first cousin is the Dean of Women at Gonzaga.
> We put a little pressure on the kid. It took a while, but Izzy finally got
> his money back.
Wow!
That Izzy is one lucky sucker.
Someone mentioned that using a Postal Money Order gives
you leverage when trying to go after a seller who ripped you off,
because it makes it a Federal offense.
I don't know if that's true.
Pt
>"Ra" wrote
>
>> I think I'm gonna abandon the reserve on my next auctions and just have,
>> for example.. on my Koa Goodall..
>>
>> a start price of $2450..
>> and a 'Buy It Now' of $2795.
>>
>> ...or something along those lines.
>
>
>Sometimes you're hoping that someone snags your guitar
>with the 'BIN' ... but it later turns out that you're glad nobody did.
>
>I started my J-185 at $1.
>I had a BIN of $1745 and a reserve price of $1100.
>
>It ended up selling for $2025.
You did good.
As for me.
I usually skip by the buy it now unless the price is right.
Pt
Ra
> >I started my J-185 at $1.
> >I had a BIN of $1745 and a reserve price of $1100.
> >It ended up selling for $2025.
> You did good.
> As for me.
> I usually skip by the buy it now unless the price is right.
> Pt
I just finished carving down the saddle on that guitar
http://surfpick.com/guitars/j185
It was pretty much virgin, from the boys at Gibson. Pretty high action...
and the buyer requested it. ( still waiting on his wire transfer from Austria )
I put fresh Hydrophobics on it. (they come vacuum packed, which is nice)
They sound pretty good.
They're 12's though.. and I just can't get used to strings that heavy.
Pt
>"
>I just finished carving down the saddle on that guitar
>http://surfpick.com/guitars/j185
>It was pretty much virgin, from the boys at Gibson. Pretty high action...
>and the buyer requested it. ( still waiting on his wire transfer from Austria )
>
>I put fresh Hydrophobics on it. (they come vacuum packed, which is nice)
>
>They sound pretty good.
>They're 12's though.. and I just can't get used to strings that heavy.
Beautiful.
A friend has a Blues King that looks much like it.
Love it.
Pt
icarusi
> Tell me more about the Switch guitars. I've been dying to play one, but
> there's no where around here that carries them. I've thought about
ordering
> one just to check it out. Do you own one yet? Have you played one yet?
I've been impressed so far. I've played 3 and I sense some resonance from
the guitars which gives them a particular sustain characteristic which suits
my playing. AFAIK there's some Trevor Wilkinson involvement with them and
the prices seem very good but probably reflect the reduced body/neck
work/finish required for a fully moulded item. The only imponderable is
long-term neck stability and if there was ever a neck break which probably
couldn't be repaired. The fretboard is rosewood with conventional frets, so
nothing unusual there. Probably not one for anyone looking to change too
many of the standard fittings. The upper range colour range is relatively
drab compared to the lower range dayglo. The weight is more comparable to
ash/mahogany than the lighter woods which I currently prefer.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Kurt Shapiro
"icarusi" <icar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:412bca87$0$92784$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
Kevin Van Sant
message <bfmhi057phtkufa8i...@4ax.com> :
>On acoustic guitars the higher the action rhe better the tone.
>Is this true on archtops?
I don't think is necessarily is true on archtops. A lot depends on
the player's touch. I think with heavy strings and high action you
could make the guitar "speak" more, as bass players talk about, but
there are a lot of other variable in good tone. High action alone
isn't an automatic improvement.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, hear sound clips, see videos, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
icarusi
> I've been dying to play one, but I can't find anywhere local to do it.
I've only seen them in two shops so far and in one it was in the
hi-tec/keyboard section as a s/h hex/midi pickup item to demonstrate other
kit. Have you tried through their website http://www.switchmusic.com/ ?
Don Judy
dj
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
<< Guitars are like women.
If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings. >>
Okay, but with guitars you don't get in *nearly* as much trouble for
trying to have more than one at the same time.
Your pal,
Biffy
--
I'm Biffy the Elephant Shrew and I disavow all knowledge of this message.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
beat ANY arch-top for sound -- when I play out with it, the guitarists just
all look dismayed as they can tell I sound better than they do on their
$5-6,000 piece of green wood guitars that they have to work so HARD at to
play, while it's just for looks mainly. >>
Carol Kaye can kick my butt from here to a Phil Spector session
with her "little ol' Ibanez." Guess what I'd tell her if she offered to
swap it for my ES-175?
Don Judy
"Biffy the Elephant Shrew" <biffy...@aol.commie.rats> wrote in message
news:20040827142751...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> Pt wrote:
>
> << Guitars are like women.
> If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings. >>
>
> Okay, but with guitars you don't get in *nearly* as much trouble for
> trying to have more than one at the same time.
>
than one at the same time though, much tougher on the guitar. Really. But at
least the guitars don't leave you to go spend the rest of their lives
together at Wolftrap or we don't know where we just do...
Ra
> Oh, it's not so tough having more than one at the same time. Playing more
> than one at the same time though, much tougher on the guitar. Really.
Stanley Jordan does pretty well at that.
He mounts them on these 'performance' stands and uses
one hand on each neck.
I guess there are 2 advantages for him.
One hand doesn't 'use' a string that he might wish
to incorporate with the 'higher' hand, as when
he's tapping on the same neck with both hands..
.. and he's able to incorporate different tones on the two guitars,
through that rat's nest of pedals, wires, amps, etc... that he has connected.
Beach Runner
Blind Broccoli wrote:
Carol Kaye has done a lot of research into ligaments and he ergonomics
of playing. I know when I play upright my back doesn't hurt, but when I
play electric bass it does. She has avoided hand problems with her
knowledge so common among others. She does know what she is talking
about.
She may not know what woods and electronics make the best tone, but
she's still the most recorded bass player in history.
>>
>>So I'll promise not to tell Carol how to play guitar or bass if she
>>will promise not to preach about guitar construction and tone.
>>
>>
>>Roger Sadowsky
She can talk about ergonomics. But as far as construction and tone,
she's dependent on experts like you.
>
thomas
> Pt wrote:
>
> << Guitars are like women.
> If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings. >>
>
> Okay, but with guitars you don't get in *nearly* as much trouble for
> trying to have more than one at the same time.
And with guitars, it's a lot easier to talk them into doing a trio.
Johnny Asia
>biffy...@aol.commie.rats (Biffy the Elephant Shrew) wrote in message news:<20040827142751...@mb-m24.aol.com>...
>> Pt wrote:
>>
>> << Guitars are like women.
>> If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings. >>
My ex was absolutely gorgeous, people told me what
a "great catch" she was. I said, "Yeah, but there's a catch to it."
At least beautiful guitars won't ever turn on you in a
"hell hath no fury like a guitar scorned" attack.
+
Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/wqe.html
"I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years." - Thelonious Monk
"Contemporary criticism only represents the amount of ignorance genius
has to contend with." - Percy Bysshe Shelley
Ra
> > Pt wrote:
> > << Guitars are like women.
> > If you have a beautiful one you have to deal with it's shortcomings. >>
> > Okay, but with guitars you don't get in *nearly* as much trouble for
> > trying to have more than one at the same time.
> And with guitars, it's a lot easier to talk them into doing a trio.
At least with women.. if you want to play with them...
there are no strings attached.
Wait a minute.. forget I said that.
Women never need parts replaced.
No.. that's no good either.
Women never need to be tuned up.
Wait, let me try again...
Women don't need to have fancy finishes applied.
OK, so that's not the best example.
Ahhh screw it, I'm gonna go do some fingerpicking.
No.. wait.
At least with women, the vintage ones aren't so expensive.
Stan Gosnell
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:
> At least with women, the vintage ones aren't so expensive.
Well, mine is pretty 'vintage', but she's still expensive. The thing to
remember with women is that the acquisition costs are high, the maintenance
costs are higher still, but the disposal costs can be ruinous.
--
Regards,
Stan
thom_j
> At least beautiful guitars won't ever turn on you in a
> "hell hath no fury like a guitar scorned" attack.
> +
Now Now Johnny lets not bring Lorraina Bobbit in on this! 8^)~'..
a very "bris"ed tee'...
Don Judy
"Stan Gosnell" <fake...@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message
news:Xns955399AE43...@204.52.135.40...
waist.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Stan
>
Stan Gosnell
t...@comcast.com:
> Yes, many a man has had to wonder in the end how he would deal with toxic
> waist.
No need to wonder. You just fork over everything you own, and start over, or
else learn to live with it.
--
Regards,
Stan