Pat Metheny's discipline
Matt
his Live Trio CDs), but I was just reading the Q&A on his website,
where in one message he mentions that from the age of 13-19 he
practiced 10-12 hours a day! That's absurd, and actually discouraging
for me, cause I didn't start playing guitar until 2 and a half years
ago (I'm almost 21), and I'm lucky if I can get in 2 hours a day,
which makes me feel like a lazy son of a bitch.
I guess it all comes down to discipline, something I need desperately
to work on. I am actually majoring in music/jazz studies at a small
liberal arts university, and right now I am wondering if maybe I am
just a complete IDIOT for pursuing this at such a "late" age. Though I
love it, I do well in theory, but I frickin suck at guitar, obviously
I need to practice more :)
Ah, the disadvantages of not coming from a musical family.
Of course, I am not striving to have the success of Metheny, I plan to
get my masters/doctorate and teach at a university level, but I would
like to make a lot of progress on my instrument, play out, do what I
can, etc.
Anyhow, ... some encouragement anyone??? :)
Regards,
Matt
Joe Finn
news:369707c7.02121...@posting.google.com...
> Wow, I haven't gotten into much Metheny until recently (I really enjoy
> his Live Trio CDs), but I was just reading the Q&A on his website,
> where in one message he mentions that from the age of 13-19 he
> practiced 10-12 hours a day! That's absurd, and actually discouraging
> for me, cause I didn't start playing guitar until 2 and a half years
> ago (I'm almost 21), and I'm lucky if I can get in 2 hours a day,
> which makes me feel like a lazy son of a bitch.
>
I think you'll find that many top players went through a period heavy,
intense woodshedding. The other point, given the general distractions of
adult life, is that's it's good to get this stuff out of the way when you
are young.
> I guess it all comes down to discipline, something I need desperately
> to work on. I am actually majoring in music/jazz studies at a small
> liberal arts university, and right now I am wondering if maybe I am
> just a complete IDIOT for pursuing this at such a "late" age. Though I
> love it, I do well in theory, but I frickin suck at guitar, obviously
> I need to practice more :)
>
> Ah, the disadvantages of not coming from a musical family.
>
Growing up in a musical environment helps a lot.
> Of course, I am not striving to have the success of Metheny, I plan to
> get my masters/doctorate and teach at a university level, but I would
> like to make a lot of progress on my instrument, play out, do what I
> can, etc.
>
> Anyhow, ... some encouragement anyone??? :)
>
Since I take it you are undergraduate age it's certainly not too late.
You've got your entire career ahead of you. You are correct that learning
to play music will take a lot of practice, hard work and discipline but so
will getting that eventual doctorate and faculty position. Lots of guys do
both. Finding someone at your school who is willing to help you along and
mentor you a bit would help enormously.
Your dedication and willingness to stay focused will be the keys to your
eventual success. Hang in there. Good luck. .....joe
--
Visit me on the web. www.JoeFinn.net
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Jurupari
>to work on.
..and how long you plan to live. :o)
I didn't learn to play much of anything until I quit grad school. My senior
year in college, not a music major, I was gigging with R&B people you've heard
of and I didn't even know how to play a major scale yet. You don't have to be a
virtuoso to get a good paying gig if people like what you do.
Here's what - if you get on at a university after graduating, you'll have a
job, and something musical that will support and enhance your continued pursuit
of excellence on your instrument.
Also, keep in mind that some people become prodigious on their instrument at an
early age, and others progress more or less linearly all their lives - we just
differ as specimens, but either scenario can produce a good player/musician.
Also, if you decide not to go any farther with guitar, and ten years go by,
then what?
In about '76/7, I was living in Blue Springs, Mo. and remember talking to a
bass player that went to school with Pat over in Lee's Summit. He said that
Pat became phenomenally better from 13 to 14 - he'd heard him a couple of times
in school assemblies and he was about full fledged the second time.
I don't think anyone could sustain that kind of progress over a lifetime - some
of the luckier of us just 'get it' earlier and have more time to apply what
they feel hear and know, but the rest of us can contribute too - think of all
the great guitar players that got lots better as they got older - there are a
lot of them.
Clif Kuplen
PWatrous
years to learn. I remember that everytime despair takes over (which is usually
after losing it totally on rhythm changes).
p
Joey Goldstein
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
<joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
Widebeat
Roy
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny's discipline
From: Joey Goldstein nos...@nowhere.net
Date: 12/18/2002 4:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <3E00E24D...@nowhere.net>
thomas
> Wow, I haven't gotten into much Metheny until recently (I really enjoy
> his Live Trio CDs), but I was just reading the Q&A on his website,
> where in one message he mentions that from the age of 13-19 he
> practiced 10-12 hours a day!
I don't think that's really healthy for a teenage boy, but it
probably is necessary to become a great player quick.
Erol Bernstein
>..and how long you plan to live. :o)
[...]
>I don't think anyone could sustain that kind of progress over a lifetime - some
>of the luckier of us just 'get it' earlier and have more time to apply what
>they feel hear and know, but the rest of us can contribute too - think of all
>the great guitar players that got lots better as they got older - there are a
>lot of them.
ahh, that's well spoken, I feel better now (:-)=
Reading some biographies from musicians, there's always the point,
where I think, it's maybe better to drink a beer instead of
practizing. But the fun I have to see growing the capabillities of
playing is a real treat- however I started very late to play jazz
guitar, same to learn english <g>
So I think, the point is to learn it and to do it, no matter, what
other peoples have done.
salute
erol
Steve Carl
> Even when he was 80 years old Horowitz practiced 8 hours a day.
>
> Roy
Even in his 90s, Segovia practiced 6 hours a day.
When I was in my 20s, I used to practice 6 to 12 hours a day. Now, at
48, I'm happy to get in 6 to 8. One of these days I'm going to have to
get a job, though.
Steve Carl
Joey Goldstein
I was studying with Pat at Berklee when he was 19. He was pretty
healthy. Had some hot girl-friends too.
Joey Goldstein
Joey Goldstein wrote:
>
> thomas wrote:
> >
> > mjro...@bulldog.unca.edu (Matt) wrote in message news:<369707c7.02121...@posting.google.com>...
> > > Wow, I haven't gotten into much Metheny until recently (I really enjoy
> > > his Live Trio CDs), but I was just reading the Q&A on his website,
> > > where in one message he mentions that from the age of 13-19 he
> > > practiced 10-12 hours a day!
> >
> > I don't think that's really healthy for a teenage boy, but it
> > probably is necessary to become a great player quick.
>
> I was studying with Pat at Berklee when he was 19. He was pretty
> healthy. Had some hot girl-friends too.
By contrast, I was an acid head and was reading Penthouse 6 hours a day
and going out to the bars trying unsuccessfully to get laid.
Paul Craven
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:3E013A55...@nowhere.net...
thom_j.
"Erol Bernstein" wrote:
> So I think, the point is to learn it and to do it, no matter, what
> other peoples have done.
> salute
> erol
Fwiw & to me, Erol the comment above says it all! I just started
my 79yr/old uncle onto the road of guitar playing & he is a lefty
too. Also he is going deaf but he loves every minute he plays, &
has told me he will keep playing even if he goes entirely deaf!
Now this is what I call dedication and he's almost 80! So, imho,
it's never too late.. cheers thom_j.
thom_j.
"Steve Carl" <sc...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:138cfea3.02121...@posting.google.com...
> wide...@aol.com (Widebeat) wrote in message
news:<20021218183115...@mb-fg.aol.com>...
> > Even when he was 80 years old Horowitz practiced 8 hours a day.
> >
> > Roy
>
> Even in his 90s, Segovia practiced 6 hours a day.
LoL..He even sired a child in what? his 80s? Go Segovia GoGo! :^)
thom_j.
"Paul Craven" <pcr...@yorku.ca> wrote in message
news:khbM9.5475$B_6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
cl...@claymoore.com
>Wow, I haven't gotten into much Metheny until recently (I really enjoy
>his Live Trio CDs), but I was just reading the Q&A on his website,
>where in one message he mentions that from the age of 13-19 he
>practiced 10-12 hours a day! That's absurd, and actually discouraging
>for me, cause I didn't start playing guitar until 2 and a half years
>ago (I'm almost 21), and I'm lucky if I can get in 2 hours a day,
>which makes me feel like a lazy son of a bitch.
HI Matt,
Most great players go/went through periods of intense practice, often
lasting years. In most cases, though, it isn't because someone told
them they needed to, or they felt "obligated," but they sincerely
wanted to learn and improve, and enjoyed doing it. Not everyone has
that level of interest. It can be difficult, because a lot of people
won't understand if you choose to be that intense about it. I remember
a lot of *musicians* I played with years ago telling me I practiced
too much. The way I looked at it, and still do, is that they were not
planning on getting any better, and that turned out to be true. FWIW,
I didn't start until I was 16, and didn't get serious until I was 18,
so you're not so far behind, really. Tal Farlow didn't get serious
until he was in his 20's, and he didn't do so bad.
Clay Moore
http://www.claymoore.com/
Tom Lippincott
>
>Most great players go/went through periods of intense practice, often
>lasting years. In most cases, though, it isn't because someone told
>them they needed to, or they felt "obligated," but they sincerely
>wanted to learn and improve, and enjoyed doing it. Not everyone has
>that level of interest. It can be difficult, because a lot of people
>won't understand if you choose to be that intense about it. I remember
>a lot of *musicians* I played with years ago telling me I practiced
>too much. The way I looked at it, and still do, is that they were not
>planning on getting any better, and that turned out to be true. FWIW,
>I didn't start until I was 16, and didn't get serious until I was 18,
>so you're not so far behind, really. Tal Farlow didn't get serious
>until he was in his 20's, and he didn't do so bad.
>
>Clay Moore
>http://www.claymoore.com/
>
I can second what Clay is saying from my own experience. I've actually been
thinking about these issues a lot lately because I started teaching at a
college again after a long period where I primarily was just playing. I can
see that there are indeed differences in different peoples' capacities for
learning and improving their technique. But at the same time, I really tend to
believe that the big "thing" that separates the true "greats" from the rest of
us mortals is not some superhuman "talent" or inherent ability, but rather a
superhuman passion for the music that makes practicing for 12 hours a day not
only fun, but a compulsion. I've gone back and forth in my life between
periods where I do have that passion for it, and other times where I don't
really have it as much, and after a lot of soul searching I've realized that's
okay. The world is not going to end if I don't end up being the next Miles.
If Pat practices 12 hours a day every day of his life and you practice 2, it
doesn't mean he is somehow a "better" person than you, just that he has
different priorities and is passionate about different things to different
degrees; maybe there are a few things you could teach him about underwater
photography (or whatever it is that occupies those other 22 hours of your day).
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
Seth Greenberg
was in high school and college. It is possible that you may be placing a
little bit too much emphasis on the actual amount of time spent practicing.
For instance, I used to spend tons of time on just technical aspects of the
guitar; this led me to possess tons of chops, but, in turn, caused me to
sound more like a technician than a musician. At a later time, these
cavities in my ability to simply make music became quite apparent when I had
someone tell me that my playing was "Off the f..k'ing wall". This is not to
say that technique is not important, however, if a person's pracitcing is
unbalanced as mine was then your playing will refelct that lopsidedness. So
I changed how I practiced, focusing more on making music and less with
playing music by the pound (the more notes, the better). The changes in how
I pracitced became one of the best things I ever did for my playing.
Therefore, it would appear that it is as equally, if not more, important how
one practices as it is the duration of the pracitice. If you can get 2 hours
in a day of quality, balanced practicing, it is better than doing more hours
of pracitce that may not be as practical or efficient. Just some food for
thought...
Seth
Geordie F.O. Kelly
the same thing where I teach. Also, I like what Tom has to say about his
views on individual worth and musical ability. Life is real short, so have
as much fun as possible. If that means pr-ing 500 hours a day or just 3,
the sun will still rise...and you will still improve as a player - input =
output.
--
Geordie F.O. Kelly
Guitarist/Improv Instructor
Armed Forces School of Music
"Tom Lippincott" <tomli...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20021219021410...@mb-ce.aol.com...
PJBMHB
can think of better ways to fill 1/2 of my days. maybe i'm not dedicated
enough, i don't know.
=-) PJ
Steve Carl
> HI Matt,
>
> Most great players go/went through periods of intense practice, often
> lasting years. In most cases, though, it isn't because someone told
> them they needed to, or they felt "obligated," but they sincerely
> wanted to learn and improve, and enjoyed doing it. Not everyone has
> that level of interest. It can be difficult, because a lot of people
> won't understand if you choose to be that intense about it. I remember
> a lot of *musicians* I played with years ago telling me I practiced
> too much. The way I looked at it, and still do, is that they were not
> planning on getting any better, and that turned out to be true. FWIW,
> I didn't start until I was 16, and didn't get serious until I was 18,
> so you're not so far behind, really. Tal Farlow didn't get serious
> until he was in his 20's, and he didn't do so bad.
>
> Clay Moore
> http://www.claymoore.com/
I agree with Clay. Also, someone once told me that their teacher had
said "if you're not good enough after 2 hours a day, you should give
up" (Great teacher *not*), to which I replied "why would you want to
settle for good enough?" I don't practice a lot because I feel
obligated. I truly love to practice. And I mean practice, not play.
There's a big difference. I love to practice because I love to play,
and I play better the more I practice. Also, I'm in the process of
building a new technique.
Did anyone read the interview with Leni Stern (I forget the magazine)
where she mentioned the inspiration she gets waking up every morning
and hearing Mike practicing? (Mike Stern is another practice-aholic,
apparently).
Steve Carl
Erol Bernstein
wrote:
>Fwiw & to me, Erol the comment above says it all! I just started
>my 79yr/old uncle onto the road of guitar playing & he is a lefty
>too. Also he is going deaf but he loves every minute he plays, &
>has told me he will keep playing even if he goes entirely deaf!
>Now this is what I call dedication and he's almost 80! So, imho,
>it's never too late.. cheers thom_j.
hehe, good to have nephews, who remember what life is ... and
a great gift for chrismas would be a JC120 :-)
salute
erol
Billg...@attbi.com
practice material and review weekly what I've practicing. I'm finding
myself getting much more passionate about the whole practicing thing.
Bill Godwin
<snip>
David Kotschessa
Discipline" I go through periods where i practice 10-12 hours a day,
but I have no discipline whatsoever. I'm just obsessed with the damn
thing. If I had any discipline I'd probably be cleaning the house,
or reading or visiting friends and relatives for at least part my 3
day weekend. (I have a 4 day/40 hour work schedule).
On my days off, I wake up, reach over and grab my guitar, play in bed
a little bit, get up when the caffiene withdrawal kicks in. Then
drink coffee. Play until I have a headache from not eating anything.
Eat - play until I have a headache from not eating anything again,
drink more coffee. Oh yes, and I read newsgroups in between. The
guitar is in my lap. This usual goes on until the wee hours of the
morning. The house is a mess, my friends don't know what I look like,
and I smell funny. Discipline?
-Dave
Sideways Jaye
Seth good post, but dude, *paragraphs are a beautiful thing*
I believe Barney Kessel once wrote in a GP article that several
focused 15 minute practice sessions were better than a single
hour-long session. While 15 minutes is very short, and I don't recall
if he meant that literally, I definitely try to pry myself away after
concentration wanes.
Along this line, if you are organized and concentrating, you can
obviously get more accomplished in 45 minutes than by going through
the motions for 3 hours.
Jonathan Giblin
> The world is not going to end if I don't end up being the next Miles.
> If Pat practices 12 hours a day every day of his life and you practice 2, it
> doesn't mean he is somehow a "better" person than you, just that he has
> different priorities and is passionate about different things to different
> degrees; maybe there are a few things you could teach him about underwater
> photography (or whatever it is that occupies those other 22 hours of your day).
I absolutely agree, but there's a caveat. If you're planning to become
a music educator, I think it's important to ask yourself honestly
whether you have enough passion for music to achieve real, meaningful
competence and whether you'll be able to pass along your passion and
competence to your students. That may not mean practicing 12 hours a
day and becoming the next Miles, but the fact is we already have too
many educators who know everything about music except how to play.
I occasionally play in a big band with quite a few high school band
directors. In many cases, their level of musicianship and concern for
the quality of their playing is apalling. Many of these people are
just going through the motions as musicians. They're nice people and
I'm sure they're all fine human beings and all, but I question whether
they ought to be teaching music to impressionable young people. I
wouldn't want my kid studying music with many of them.
It seems to me the most compelling ethical principal for educators is
to be competent oneself. You may want to consider whether your passion
for music is suficient to get you to that point. Otherwise, you may
want to consider music as a more casual endeavor and choose a
different career path. There's certainly no shame in that.
Mike C.
"Jonathan Giblin" <cg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e398a45.02121...@posting.google.com...
While that may be true, you also need to look at the fact that many people
study and work hard at being teachers, which takes away from practicing. A
great player who has practiced 12 hours a day can only tell you what worked
for him/her. There are lesser players that can teach you a helluva lot more
than a highly accomplished player. I've certainly taken on students that
left a teacher who may be a better player than I am, but I learned to focus
on the student and what his/her learning style is, along with the
strengths/weaknesses of the student. Many times it's not being a great
player that counts, it's being a good listener and being able to organze
one's thoughts. I teach piano to a bunch of students. I can't play piano to
save my life. However, I can play enough to get through the beginning stuff
I'm teaching, and I can go to a much higher level in hearing what the
student is playing right or wrong. I just can't physically do it, as it's
not my instrument. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the student is
learning.
mjguit7
You should investigate Wes. I think he had about 4 kids and a day job
and was around 26 or so when he started... he definitely didn't do
bad.
Joe Thibodeau
>but he loves every minute he plays
and that is the point ... it's why I play ... it's why everyone plays.
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:28:18 -0500, "thom_j." <thom_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
Joe Thibodeau
>In many cases, their level of musicianship and concern for
>the quality of their playing is apalling
Isn't it great to be able to tell the difference?
I wish I had found and stuck with a really good teacher from early on.
I'm a decent player but no matter where you are ... there is always
more territory to cover.
On 19 Dec 2002 08:19:24 -0800, cg...@yahoo.com (Jonathan Giblin)
wrote:
Joey Goldstein
PJBMHB wrote:
>
> practicing 12 hours a day is wonderful if you don't have a life.
or if music IS your life
> personally, i
> can think of better ways to fill 1/2 of my days. maybe i'm not dedicated
> enough,
it's all relative. maybe you're not as dedicated as Pat or 'Trane.
> i don't know.
> =-) PJ
--
thom_j.
More Input! More Input! :^) I think I better get More Input!
too as he is learning faster then I would have ever imagined!
cheers thom_j.
"Joe Thibodeau" <jet...@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:b8140vo5ifbqgtenq...@4ax.com...
thom_j.
has a very nice nest egg for his golden years... So he could buy
anything he wants but for now all he wants to do is play and he
play as much as he can.
Also he's smart enough to not let it disrupt his normal activities
and time with his wife. They never had any children so this isnt
a factor he has to worry about, and so it goes :^)
cheers thom_j.
"Erol Bernstein" <lobsam.re...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:tmg30v8fj9b86hial...@4ax.com...
Paul Sanwald
may not be someone's path to becoming an interesting musician. While
pat has clearly put in tons of hours, that's not everyone's path. A
lot of times I hear musicians who have clearly put in a ton of hours
and can play over any changes and have a huge vocabulary, but I still
don't like their music or how they play.
IMHO the best thing the original poster can do is figure out what he
or she wants to do, and the best way to get there. If it's playing
like pat metheny, he/she had better get in the practice room and not
come out. the question to ask yourself is "what will get me where I
want to be?"
as soon as you figure that out, then all you have to do is start doing
the things you need to do that will get you there. music isn't all
practicing, it's playing with other people, networking, composing,
arranging, listening, hustling gigs, and a million other things. it's
important to make some decisions about what you want out of music
before you dive in headfirst.
as a side note, I don't buy the "10 or 15 years of practicing 12 hours
a day just to learn the jazz language" thing at all. jazz history is
riddled with musicians who dispel this notion.
--paul
David Kotschessa
Well, I find that what most people consider "having a life," is quite
mundane and meaningless. They go to work, watch some TV, have a few
beers and go to bed. Maybe they go out sometimes and have a few more
beers, fight with wife and/or girlfriend to spice things up, repeat.
Ick. I'd rather play my guitar.
-Dave
Adam Gottschalk
Great thread! Lot of very valuable input, varied opinions, and even
entertainment. I couldn't agree more with Seth who said the "quality" of
practise time is every bit as important as, if not more than, the
"quantity".
One of the really great things, for a generalist and
"multi-disciplinarian" like me, is to note that this "obsession" with
things quantitative at the expense of things qualitative is a dilemma we
find folks facing, usually unconsciously, in every realm of life, from
economics to love.
I have found, at 33, that I spent too much time when younger just
fiddling around, learning tidbits, and learning _how_ to play the guitar
without really focusing on making music, in particular, learning tunes,
whole tunes. I have never woodshedded (never got past the point of
playing until I lost my focus...and never forced myself to keep my focus
for all that long). Coming back to the music now after some time away, I
find I really do have a passion for _making music_, not just playing the
guitar.
I took 8 years off between highschool and college (never thought I'd go
to college actually) and, similarly, I found again and again that those
8 years helped me return to school with a real passion for learning. I'd
been out there in the world and I knew a lot of the things I wanted to
learn (and a lot of the things I was clueless about). I was often
"disgusted" (too strong a word) at the attitudes of the kids who were
coming straight from highschool. Most of them didn't want to be there
and were just going through the motions. Yes, it was an excellent
experience to be able to see the difference.
I also agree with Tom, of course, that if one doesn't become the next
Metheny, the world will not end, and we must get ourselves comfortable
with that. I think there is a real trick, though, a balancing act, that
one has to go through years of life-experience before one can see the
difference between the quantitative and the qualitative in one's path
generally, and in the path of a musician in particular. Then one might
be able to achieve the "best" that is achievable in his or her life,
might come to understand how to excerise the full range of qualities in
their potential for happiness, might learn to make music satisfying to
soul and heart, and put it in just the right "location" in relation to
all the other aspects of a many-faceted life.
For some, I dare say very, very few, music=life; for most, music=one
beatiful thread in the complete and satisfying fabric of a life.
Paul Sanwald
wrote:
>
>Well, I find that what most people consider "having a life," is quite
>mundane and meaningless. They go to work, watch some TV, have a few
>beers and go to bed. Maybe they go out sometimes and have a few more
>beers, fight with wife and/or girlfriend to spice things up, repeat.
>Ick. I'd rather play my guitar.
>
it depends on what you're doing. even if you don't have any other
obligations, practicing 12 hours a day can minimize other activities,
like going to watch a good concert, getting exercise, hustling gigs,
going to jam sessions, that are beneficial to musicians.
--paul
Will Sperry
for talent and dedication, but probably not practical for someone who
has a mortgage, family, day job etc . . .
Also as I age, my fingers and back do get tired from practicing.
Music is not a purely mental activity.
When I can't play (practice), I'll try to relax and listen to some
music that I like. Jazz for the most part. I think listening to
music is an important aspect of practicing. We should be listening to
the persons who inspire us artistically and try to delve deeper into
what them great in the first place.
Also I would agree with previous posts about persons who teach music
in public schools and don't particularly care about what the students
produce in music classes. I have heard music students who just
basically waste time in band class and its annoying.
So I say, when you can't practice, listen . . ., I think that's as
important as acually producing sounds.
cl...@claymoore.com
wrote:
>I occasionally play in a big band with quite a few high school band
>directors. In many cases, their level of musicianship and concern for
>the quality of their playing is apalling. Many of these people are
>just going through the motions as musicians. They're nice people and
>I'm sure they're all fine human beings and all, but I question whether
>they ought to be teaching music to impressionable young people. I
>wouldn't want my kid studying music with many of them.
Hi Jonathan,
I have to agree; many of the high school band directors I've worked
with are some of the worst musicians I've played with in my musical
career. I remember a particularly painful gig where the alto player
told me he hadn't picked up his horn since New Years Eve, and our gig
was in the fall. Unfortunately, at the time I was new in town and
needed the money, so I played those gigs. I also question whether
these folks should be teaching.
Clay Moore
http://www.claymoore.com/
David Kotschessa
I completely agree with that. Actually, activities that have nothing
to do with music whatsoever can be the most beneficial. Music is a
means for communicating something outside music. If you don't know
anything other than the music (the means of communication) you have
nothing to say with it.
I've always theorized that this is why musicians who were once
prolific and/or popular tend to "fall." When the become succesfull,
their lives become so consumed by their craft that they know nothing
about anything else anymore. All they know is music, they no longer
have anything to communicate to the world that the world can relate
to.
Incidentally, I do have a full time job, part time consulting
business, give lessons, and recently ran a half marathon. I try to do
lots of "stuff." When I made the post above, I was thinking about
what most people mean when they said "if I had no life." I'm not
saying the person above falls into this category, but I often hear
people say stuff like that because the other person has something,
like music, that they actually take very seriously. When I tell
people about the stuff I do, they inevitably say something like "Well,
you're young/single," or of course, "Yeah, I'd do all that to if I
didn't have a life." Then they go back to their TV watching and
cheez-it eating.
What I should say back to them is "well, I'd have a life too if it
weren't for all this meaningfull and fulfilling stuff I've got going
on."
-Dave
Paul Sanwald
wrote:
>
>Incidentally, I do have a full time job, part time consulting
>business, give lessons, and recently ran a half marathon.
hey dave,
running and jazz guitar go real well together! rory stuart and
richard boukas are both avid marathon runners. rmmgjer's mark cleary,
dick onstenk and me are all runners as well. do you run full marathons
as well? I ran nyc for the first time in 2001.
--paul
Dan Adler
> I guess it all comes down to discipline, something I need desperately
> to work on. I am actually majoring in music/jazz studies at a small
There is a 40 minute video interview with Pat on his web site, and
towards the end he says that practicing is like an investment. You get
a huge "return" on every hour you put in. If you work on something for
3 hours, you then get back thousands of hours of being able to do
something you couldn't do before.
I also love the way he always answers questions like "what was this
tune about". His answer there are so eloquent that I won't even try to
paraphrase it here.
David Kotschessa
Planned for Nov 2003. Philadelphia Distance Run. Doing a few more
halfs, Broad street run in may (10 miles) etc.
I come up with some of my best improvisational ideas while on my long
runs. Kinda sucks though, since I'm 6 miles from my instrument when
it happens.
-Dave
Micah Bedwell
--
Regards,
Micah Bedwell
"Adam Gottschalk" <ad...@adamgottschalk.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:adam-D01B7B.1...@news.fu-berlin.de...
Joe Thibodeau
Maybe you could visit my tiny homemade website ... download my
arrangement of "Over The Rainbow" and get back to me about how fast
I'm learning ...
and who ta ... is Johnny 5 in Chort Circuit? !@?!@!
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:09:17 -0500, "thom_j." <thom_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
David Kotschessa
> I agree with Clay. Also, someone once told me that their teacher had
> said "if you're not good enough after 2 hours a day, you should give
> up" (Great teacher *not*), to which I replied "why would you want to
> settle for good enough?" I don't practice a lot because I feel
> obligated. I truly love to practice. And I mean practice, not play.
> There's a big difference. I love to practice because I love to play,
> and I play better the more I practice. Also, I'm in the process of
> building a new technique.
>
> Did anyone read the interview with Leni Stern (I forget the magazine)
> where she mentioned the inspiration she gets waking up every morning
> and hearing Mike practicing? (Mike Stern is another practice-aholic,
> apparently).
>
> Steve Carl
Incidentally, Steve, I have recently stolen your method of structuring
practice session by way of 45 minute "sessions," dedicated to a
particular task. (I asked Steve for his practice schedule once, and I
got it!) My practice has been a lot more focused and disciplined
lately because of it. I now ask myself "What do I need to work on
today," and schedule things accordingly.
I love to practice too, and I think that people get the wrong
impression when they hear about somebody practicing for 4 6 10 12
hours... It's simply a matter of getting into a zone where you love
what you're doing, and the time flies by.
It's the same zone you get into when you sit in front of your
computer, surfing the web, reading usenet, or whatever, then you look
up at the clock and say "oh sh*t! It's 2:00am!" People aren't quite
as impressed when you tell them that you surfed the net for 6 hours,
but for some people it's no different then practicing.
I once heard someone define "time" as being an emotion. I think that
has some truth to it. Time is certainly mutable - ask your local
physicist!
While I can't listen to them anymore, I still admire a lot of the
shred guitarists that are out there. They had a big impact on how I
looked at the guitar in the begining in terms of the sonoric
capabilities of the instrument. Anyway, Steve Vai said in some article
once "Practice is a labor of love." This kind of made it all make
sense for me. Even if you don't like to practice, and you won't
ALWAYS love it, you do it anyway because you love music.
-Dave
thom_j.
wonder into the world of classic hoaky funny movies..eh?
It is about a robot who ends trying to be "alive" Johnny 5
is "alive". If ya' aint seen the movie you wont understand.
Its no biggie just abit of my warped analogies via movies.
cheers thom_j.
"Joe Thibodeau" <jet...@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:s9n60v0lv6qlejnao...@4ax.com...
Joe Finn
>
> I love to practice too, and I think that people get the wrong
> impression when they hear about somebody practicing for 4 6 10 12
> hours... It's simply a matter of getting into a zone where you love
> what you're doing, and the time flies by.
With all this talk about the time it takes to practice nobody has mentioned
the time it takes to actually play the gigs. Last Saturday I played two gigs
that totaled between six and seven hours of playing and perhaps four hours
of driving. With other jobs on Thursday, Friday and Sunday it's not unusual
to spend 16 hours or so actually on the bandstand over a four day stretch.
Life is good. .......joe
--
Visit me on the web. www.JoeFinn.net
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Max Leggett
wrote:
>"David Kotschessa" <dkots...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>> I love to practice too, and I think that people get the wrong
>> impression when they hear about somebody practicing for 4 6 10 12
>> hours... It's simply a matter of getting into a zone where you love
>> what you're doing, and the time flies by.
>
>With all this talk about the time it takes to practice nobody has mentioned
>the time it takes to actually play the gigs.
Yeah. All the guys in the 20s and 30s were playing umpteen hour gigs.
Armstrong used to play 8.00 pm to 5 am at the Lincoln Gardens, and he
had no trouble doing it. Must've been doing the same thing down in
N.O. And the stories are legion of guys playing to 5 in the morning
and then going and playing a breakfast gig untill 11. Practice? With
hours like that you did your practicing on the stand - the rest of the
time you were sleeping. There seems to be no escaping putting in the
hours.
Joey Goldstein
hours a day rather than that he actually practices 12 hours a day.
When I was studying with him I remember he used to steal off into Gary
Burton's room and practice vibes and piano.
I'm sure he spends a good deal of his time writing and taking care of
business issues as well as practicing. I'm sure that when he was younger
though that he put in more than a few days of literally practicing for
12 hours straight.
Joe Finn
>
> Yeah. All the guys in the 20s and 30s were playing umpteen hour gigs.
> Armstrong used to play 8.00 pm to 5 am at the Lincoln Gardens, and he
> had no trouble doing it. Must've been doing the same thing down in
> N.O. And the stories are legion of guys playing to 5 in the morning
> and then going and playing a breakfast gig untill 11. Practice? With
> hours like that you did your practicing on the stand - the rest of the
> time you were sleeping. There seems to be no escaping putting in the
> hours.
My old buddy Mike Schiffer had a gig at the old Gaslight in New York where
he played an eight hour solo piano gig six nights a week. This was in the
1960s. What a life, right? ......joe
Joe Finn
news:3E04F399...@nowhere.net...
> I think it would be more to the point to say that Pat works on music 12
> hours a day rather than that he actually practices 12 hours a day.
>
> When I was studying with him I remember he used to steal off into Gary
> Burton's room and practice vibes and piano.
>
> I'm sure he spends a good deal of his time writing and taking care of
> business issues as well as practicing. I'm sure that when he was younger
> though that he put in more than a few days of literally practicing for
> 12 hours straight.
I haven't always been knocked out by some of Pat's stylistic choices but
there is certainly no denying the sheer power of his work ethic. His
legendary woodshedding as a kid emerged and transformed itself into an
extremely heavy schedule of touring and recording as an adult. His catalog
now includes about 30 albums as a leader and another couple dozen as a
sideman. His prodigious output is even more impressive when you remember
that he has not yet turned 50. .............joe