Practicing Aid - Boss DD-20
sheets
second loops and it turns out to be really great for practicing over
specific chords or progressions. There are probably cheaper things on
the market too but it turns out that this device is much easier to use
(and more fun) than BIAB. Plus, I've used it live a couple times for
some stuff as well.
woland99
I really like Boss looper for the same purpose - you can hook drum
machine to AUX, have octave pedal to lay down bass and you can create
short practice loops faster than you can do it in BIAB. Plus you
learn
how to comp. I have RC-20 - at some point I will go for RC-50 - with
guitar synth and drum machine you are a one man band.
Kevin Van Sant
<jackz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
<c9c13562-edad-4445...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com> :
I've been using a Digitech Jamman for the same thing for a few months.
It is purely a looper, you wouldn't use it as a delay box. You can
loop several minutes though. As you say, is a great practice tool and
much better than BIAB.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
http://www.kevinvansant.com
CDs, videos, mp3s, gigs, pics, lessons, info.
sheets
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:02:26 -0800 (PST), sheets<jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> <c9c13562-edad-4445-9e33-d611af79e...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com> :
>
> >I picked up a Boss DD20 delay recently. It's able to do up to 23
> >second loops and it turns out to be really great for practicing over
> >specific chords or progressions. There are probably cheaper things on
> >the market too but it turns out that this device is much easier to use
> >(and more fun) than BIAB. Plus, I've used it live a couple times for
> >some stuff as well.
>
> I've been using a Digitech Jamman for the same thing for a few months.
> It is purely a looper, you wouldn't use it as a delay box. You can
> loop several minutes though. As you say, is a great practice tool and
> much better than BIAB.
>
> _________________________________________
> Kevin Van Sant
>
> http://www.kevinvansant.com
> CDs, videos, mp3s, gigs, pics, lessons, info.
I probably should have gotten that. How much was it?
Kevin Van Sant
<jackz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
<d8dbc30f-9316-4d03...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com> :
>>
>> I've been using a Digitech Jamman for the same thing for a few months.
>> It is purely a looper, you wouldn't use it as a delay box. You can
>> loop several minutes though. As you say, is a great practice tool and
>> much better than BIAB.
>>
>
>I probably should have gotten that. How much was it?
about $250 from a dealer on ebay.
well worth it. I've been encouraging my students to get one, a
couple have. It's a great tool to have on hand for lessons too, or
for instructional videos :)
sheets
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:14:06 -0800 (PST), sheets<jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> <d8dbc30f-9316-4d03-8245-354b1d73c...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com> :
>
>
>
> >> I've been using a Digitech Jamman for the same thing for a few months.
> >> It is purely a looper, you wouldn't use it as a delay box. You can
> >> loop several minutes though. As you say, is a great practice tool and
> >> much better than BIAB.
>
> >I probably should have gotten that. How much was it?
>
> about $250 from a dealer on ebay.
>
> well worth it. I've been encouraging my students to get one, a
> couple have. It's a great tool to have on hand for lessons too, or
> for instructional videos :)
>
Not sure if I can still return mine tp GC but if I can I think i'll do
it and get the jamman. Thanks for the tip.
Tone
I used the RC-20 for a couple years then switched to the Jamman a year
or so ago because it held a lot more. Actually I seem to have worn
out a contact in the stop pedal and was desparate for something to
practice with so I went down to GC that night and got another to use
while I get the first one fixed. It was great though, I just took out
the little memory card, put it in the new one and it was like nothing
even happened.
It's great for practicing especially if you have a little mixer. I've
put CD snippets, Drum Machine, Mp3 player, pretty much anything into
it. But the main thing is just as a great foot controlled recorder w/o
the rewind hassles. Best thing I've ever done for my practicing.
Dan Adler
I got an RC-20 a while back and after the novelty wore off it has
taken its place of honor on the shelf along with all its never-to-be-
used-again gear friends. I wish I had your discipline to get rid of
gear (aka sell) when that happens :-)
Pat Smith
use. I also am always looking and never using..so sad. The only boxes I
use regularly (besides a tuner) are a Baby Blue OD and the Hughes and
Kettner Rotosphere
Dirk
and has 99 locations to store loops and uses 44khz samples ( CD quality)
Dirk
charles robinson
machines, analog 4tracks , effects,etc. It was a sad day.It seems like
anything that delays practice time or causes you to have to look for it
before a gig ends up that way.
Charlie
"Dan Adler" <d...@danadler.com> wrote in message
news:c9b159f0-4532-4604...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
sheets
Thanks for the tip. I returned the DD-20 to Guitar Center and will
pick up a used jamman. Are there different versions that I need to
look out for?
tom walls
robins...@comcast.net says...
> I just tossed a whole box full of stuff like that, old tuners,obsolete drum
> machines, analog 4tracks , effects,etc. It was a sad day.It seems like
> anything that delays practice time or causes you to have to look for it
> before a gig ends up that way.
> Charlie
>
For me it's practically anything with any kind of learning curve. I'm
right on the brink of 86ing my Jamman. I'm also beginning to think that
anything that requires that I turn on my computer is an enemy of beauty.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
woland99
If you want to gig solo then spend a bit more and get Boss RC-50:
# Play up to 3 stereo phrase tracks simultaneously
# All tracks can be synced to an internal clock or MIDI clock
# Recording time up to 49 min. mono, 24 min. stereo
# 99 patches (3 master loops per patch)
# Undo/Redo function for recording and overdubbing
etc etc
Most full featured looper if there ever was one.
Gerry
<robins...@comcast.net> said:
Yeah, Charlie, I did the same thing about two years ago. It had to have
cost me a grand or something in total. But everything with an AC chord
had to have it's own inscrutable interface.
I just junked them all; age and obsolescence made it junk anyway. It
had already sapped enough of my time and money, the idea of mounting
the ebay horse and navigating all of that just to unload it sounded
like a second day-job. One's enough.
I was eager to get one hot-diggity Roland composer thing a few years
ago. A friend loaned me his with the hopes I'd buy it. I spent a week
programming the thing. It was kinda fun, a puzzle making it do what I
wanted, and it allowed me to avoid practicising. Then I gave it back to
him with a sigh of relieve that I didn't purchase it.
--
///---
charles robinson
instructions practice time is over,
Charlie
"Gerry" <some...@sunny.calif> wrote in message
news:2008012911452550073-somewhere@sunnycalif...
tom walls
robins...@comcast.net says...
>
> That's the thing by the time you read the manuals and follow all of the
> instructions practice time is over,
> Charlie
>
>
>
sheets
> In article <gqWdnWQL0Yr-_ALanZ2dnUVZ_j-dn...@comcast.com>,
> robinsonch...@comcast.net says...
>
> > I just tossed a whole box full of stuff like that, old tuners,obsolete drum
> > machines, analog 4tracks , effects,etc. It was a sad day.It seems like
> > anything that delays practice time or causes you to have to look for it
> > before a gig ends up that way.
> > Charlie
>
> For me it's practically anything with any kind of learning curve. I'm
> right on the brink of 86ing my Jamman. I'm also beginning to think that
> anything that requires that I turn on my computer is an enemy of beauty.
The nice thing about the jamman is that it does not require a
computer. I just returned my DD20 and bought a used jamman.
paul
tom walls
b2d898...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, jackz...@gmail.com says...
tech guy, it stresses me out to use it. As soon as I start dicking
around with something like that, I'm no longer making music. I'm going
to give it one more try.
DaveB
"sheets" <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c9c13562-edad-4445...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Just to thoughout my comments... I have been using an RC-20 to practice with
for several years and recently upgraded to the RC-50. These things are the
best for us lonely old toads who spend most of their time playing in the
basement all alone. (Don't read anything into that!) Since the RC-50 has the
built in percussion also I used it recently at a charity thing I played some
tunes at and it worked really well.
Tone
> do you guys use the click track or just loop with no click?
No click. But I have ~20 loops I took off a "drum metronome" CD at
different speeds in 2/4/8/16/32 bar chunks so I can comp (and record)
whatever I want with the drums, I just don't save the comping. I never
really got what good the click was. Maybe it helps/forces you to line
up the begin/end of a loop exactly?
Kevin Van Sant
in message <MPG.220965c6...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> :
Nothing can be simpler than the jamman. Sure there are a variety of
features but you don't need most of them. set the loop level and the
rec level to about 12 o'clock. Forget about everything else and it
good to go. That's what is so great about it, you can make music
immediately without dicking around with technology or software.
Kevin Van Sant
<jackz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
<3128c2c0-4bdc-4b02...@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com> :
I saw upstream you've got one... that was fast. Enjoy.
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message
<78030cf1-b24f-4d69...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com> :
>do you guys use the click track or just loop with no click?
generally no.
sheets
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:31:15 -0800 (PST), sheets<jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> <3128c2c0-4bdc-4b02-bb12-14076b99b...@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com> :
>
> >Kevin,
>
> >Thanks for the tip. I returned the DD-20 to Guitar Center and will
> >pick up a used jamman. Are there different versions that I need to
> >look out for?
>
> I saw upstream you've got one... that was fast. Enjoy.
I'll get it in a few days. In the meantime, I miss practicing with the
looper. It's become an integral part of my daily routine!
frank
> do you guys use the click track or just loop with no click?
Paul and the gang,
Let me jump in here late in the thread to first answer your question that
the click track does everything a metronome does, so if you believe in
that turn on the click. On the JamMan it's just a volume knob. You can
turn in on and off as desired both during the "recording" and during the
looping and practice.
Second, to the folks citing gadgets, complexity, obsolescence, and
interruption of valuable practice time - that's not a looper. You've
basically got two pedals and 99 places to at least temporarily retain
what you're working with.
There's no setup, no muss no fuss no manuals, just pure infinitely
patient accompaniment with whatever needs work or just pops into your
head.
I had a friend stop over last week and asked him to lay down a peculiar
piece he wrote that we sometimes jam on - interesting shifting voice and
sliding modal number. After I canned him in "track" #12 he asked me
about improvising along to what he just saved, so I had him step on the
play pedal and have at it.
Incidentally, I had walked away after simply telling him to count out the
lead in and step on the record pedal right on beat, and then stomp on the
stop pedal at the very end of the final turnaround at the last count
before the progression repeats. He was perfect the first time, again no
tweaks and no manuals, AND no practice.
Anyway, he's jamming away on my Tele through my Blues Junior and sounding
good as usual - fluid and lyrical and inventive, so I grabbed my Strat (I
have three solidbodies on a tree downstairs in my long living room, and
two amps - everything tucked in along end tables and behind chairs),
plugged into my Reverb Rocket and began playing off him. I didn't want
to suggest any conceptual or technical superiority, though we have been a
little competitive in the past, but he kept asking me to turn up, and as
I did I began to cook.
After about a half hour with the two of us lost in the loop, circling
each other, getting farther and farther out there, we wound down and
capped it. He looked at me with a bemused expression and said, "Frank,
man, where did you pick up those chops?"
He wasn't, I assume, referring to my speed or fluidity, though they were
good, but I'm sure my lyricism and inventiveness. I kept coming up with
figures and lines that I knew I'd only have stumbled upon a year ago but
now pulled up with intention.
Okay, here's the end of the story - and a disclaimer. First, in all
humility I'm only describing this in relative terms and not evaluating
our playing in the context of anyone but ourselves. However, along with
an unmistakable improvement in speed, fluidity, inflection, left and
right hand variety in technique, picking and playing PIMA, what really
improved the most was that melodic lyricism - however outside and pushing
the edge of tonality and meter.
Moral of the story. It was the looper. No, last name's pirrone not
popiel, and I don't want to sound like a shill for JamMan or any other
"product." but this thing's the nuts. Wanna work on your ii-vi-i? Got a
couple of hours to explore everything you know and then get into things
you hadn't known? Got a sideman who will play the same three chords for
an entire evening? Not totally thrilled with backing tracks or bandmates
in a box? You could capture a loop, hit play and practice till sunrise,
go to work and come home, and that little jammer is still there next to
the love seat just doing ii-vi-i over and over.
Frank
--
"Life isn't a spectator sport" - Jackie Robinson
woland99
> I used the RC-20 for a couple years then switched to the Jamman a year
> or so ago because it held a lot more. Actually I seem to have worn
> out a contact in the stop pedal and was desparate for something to
> practice with so I went down to GC that night and got another to use
> while I get the first one fixed. It was great though, I just took out
> the little memory card, put it in the new one and it was like nothing
> even happened.
of space for loops - I kept making these neat little groves - tune
sketches - and had to dump them on tape to keep them. I think with
RC-50
you can transfer loops back and forth PC via USB.
I had RC-20 for 5 or 6 years now - use it almost every day and never
had
a single problem with it. It needs decent power supply tho - had a
problem
once when I tried to chain it with chorus on same PS - chorus got all
garbled.
> It's great for practicing especially if you have a little mixer. I've
> put CD snippets, Drum Machine, Mp3 player, pretty much anything into
> it. But the main thing is just as a great foot controlled recorder w/o
> the rewind hassles. Best thing I've ever done for my practicing.
Yup. Same here. Learning curve is almost zero. Not only great
practice
tool but great "sketchbook".
Mark Cleary
16 minutes of sample time and runs $249 compared to the $$299 for the
Jamman. I personally record with the click track to get it to looper
correct then turn it off on the playback. It is a great practice tool
and I don't know how to use all the features I think you can record a CD
through it or maybe a drum track.
Mark Cleary plays Hollenbeck Jazz Guitars
Handmade http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
Lawrie
> I really like Boss looper for the same purpose - you can hook drum
> machine to AUX, have octave pedal to lay down bass and you can create
> short practice loops faster than you can do it in BIAB. Plus you
> learn
> how to comp. I have RC-20 - at some point I will go for RC-50 - with
> guitar synth and drum machine you are a one man band.
A drum machine is the only thing I don't have. What would you
recommend that's inexpesive and easy to use? I have an RC-20XL and use
a EHX Octave Multiplexor.
Lawrie
Lawrie
I use sometimes use the "click track" or guide tone on my RC-20XL, and
at times I don't. Since I play both bass and guitar so I use my
RC-20XL differently in various situations. The click track is useful
if I want to lay down an A and B section of a tune on two different
channels, thus maintaining the tempo. I switch between channels using
an FS-6 footswitch, and usually use my guitar with an octave pedal to
lay down the bass lines.
When I use it for jamming, I'll loop the bass part for the B section
only (with my bass). Don't need the click track because I have a
drummer. This allows me to pick up my guitar for comping and soloing.
When I'm done, I'm back on the bass to end the tune. The funny thing
is, I've had friends drop by to listen to us jam, and if they show up
int he middle of the tune, they start looking around trying to figure
out where the bass is coming from. Freaks them out.
I would like to try using a drum machine instead of the click track
one of these days. Something simple and inexpensive to use.
Lawrie
woland99
I do not have any drum machine recs - at this point I have rather
antiquated Alesis HR16-B. I want to try to write a pattern editor
for it - just as learning project. So I am about to get another
drum machine but not sure which one - need to investigate a bit.
Lawrie
> antiquated Alesis HR16-B. I want to try to write a pattern editor
> for it - just as learning project. So I am about to get another
> drum machine but not sure which one - need to investigate a bit.
I'm going to do some investigative work as well. I'll post my
findings.
Lawrie