Jimmy Bruno
Steve Rivera
town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy Bruno.
gooeyboy
Where is the free show?
gooeyboy
Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
Tony Kennedy
news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
around
> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
Bruno.
>
>
Where?
--
-=-~+~-=-_-=-~+~-=-
Going to church does not make you a Christian anymore than
going to McDonald's makes you a hamburger.
Tony
bon...@yahoo.com
JD
<gooe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Where do you live?
>Where is the free show?
>
>gooeyboy
>
>
>Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
>news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
>> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
>around
>> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
>Bruno.
>>
>>
>
Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
Listen to a Wes album......
Joey Goldstein
This should be fun. Flame on people......
--
Regards:
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://webhome.idirect.com/~joegold
Email: <joegold AT idirect DOT com>
OASYSCO
>>news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
>>> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
>>around
>>> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
>>Bruno.
>Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
Jimmy's white?!? Well, that no count white guy...
>feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
>Listen to a Wes album......
While I find the same true of most other virtuoso's, I admit that I get a
little tired of listening to Wes over and over. I can only take so much of a
single artist over a short period of time.
Admittedly, I quickly got sick of Lee Rittenour's tribute CD to Wes, even
though I feel Lee Rit is probably the BEST all-around guitarist on the scene
today. And Coryell's overdubbed duo with Wes scraped my nerves.
I'm certainly not saying that I don't like Wes, considering I have a number of
his CD's and without him we would not have had folks like Ge. Benson. It's just
that his style is so distinctive and unmistakable as to... oops I better stop
here...
Greg
fretwiz
wrote:
> JD wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:44:10 -0500, "gooeyboy"
> > <gooe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Where do you live?
> > >Where is the free show?
> > >
> > >gooeyboy
> > >
> > >
> > >Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
> > >news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> > >> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
> > >around
> > >> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
> > >Bruno.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> > feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
> >
> > Listen to a Wes album......
>
> This should be fun. Flame on people......
Don't encourage 'em to feed the trolls. Anyway, as a troll I give it a 2
on a scale of 1 to 10,(this much because he spelled diatonic correctly).
It's stale and boring diatribe that lacks any kind of embellishment,
which is an atrocity in a NG such as this. It's more fun to rate the
trolls than feed 'em!
fretwiz
gerry garavaglia
>
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:44:10 -0500, "gooeyboy"
> <gooe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Where do you live?
> >Where is the free show?
> >
> >gooeyboy
> >
> >
> >Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> >> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
> >around
> >> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
> >Bruno.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
> Listen to a Wes album......
This is very unchariteristic of this group. Havent seen many flame wars
here.
Where are you playing this weekend?
Gerry
David Moss
"JD" wrote...
> ...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
It's a rare privilege to see a statement made in such a
definitive and confident way when it's so completely
and utterly wrong.
I could try something like "Idaho's perfect beaches
have made it one of the most popular vacation islands
in the Indian Ocean" - but no, I don't think I'm even
approaching the beauty of JD's surrealistic masterpiece
there.
Thank you, JD. You're an inspiration to us all.
Glenn
>Why bother..
((because Wes is Wes and Jimmy is Jimmy that's why you should bother. They
are both fantastic, but you can go see Jimmy live!))
.he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
>feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
Dan H.
Dan
--
Richard Daniels Music - Theory for the Serious Musician
http://www.ncp.net/rdm
The Site was completely redone and uploaded on 11/26/99
2/14 Added Scale Variations to tips section
2/15 Added 2 new jazz originals.
http:www.ncp.net/rdm/tips.html
Tips scattered throughout site and NEW site of the month feature!
"David Moss" <david...@ifia.fzk.de> wrote in message
news:8amf1g$48p$1...@hiknews1.fzk.de...
>
> "JD" wrote...
> > ...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> > feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
Tom Jaffe
JD wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:44:10 -0500, "gooeyboy"
> <gooe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Where do you live?
> >Where is the free show?
> >
> >gooeyboy
> >
> >
> >Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> >> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
> >around
> >> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
> >Bruno.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
Kevin Karrick
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:44:10 -0500, "gooeyboy"
> <gooe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Where do you live?
> >Where is the free show?
> >
> >gooeyboy
> >
> >
> >Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> >> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
> >around
> >> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
> >Bruno.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
Oh, you must be new to the group. Those are collections of audible tones we call
notes, that are played, usually in connection with some emotional or story like
message, over a system we call music. The system we use today was made popular
by a *white* guy named Bach some 300 years ago. They teach the stuff in most
colleges. You can find out more about this on the Internet, particularly on
*other* news groups rec.music, etc..
Kevin
Rick
JD wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:44:10 -0500, "gooeyboy"
> <gooe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Where do you live?
> >Where is the free show?
> >
> >gooeyboy
> >
> >
> >Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> >> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
> >around
> >> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
> >Bruno.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
> Listen to a Wes album......
I guess I am going to have to weigh in on this one. I know Jimmy and have
seen him play several times. I have been playing as long as Jimmy is old.
Jimmy is truly a virtuoso and this is not just my opinion. I am also
joined in this opinion by several other world class guitarists (one of whom
I am definitely not) - Johnny Smith, Joe Beck, Howard Alden, Henry Johnson
- to mention a few. Jimmy is truly someone worth your time spent in
listening.
Rick Ireland
Jurupari
>> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense
Shouldn't that be "change-chasing"? tsk,tsk, posing is SO difficult....
Brings to mind a spiked blond wig, nose ring and Satan tatoos, chromium taloned
codpiece, snake leather breeches and lucite high-heel Brogans with live
half-squashed cockroaches flailing about in the heels. Probably plays the Dean
Schecter DeSatanico reverse Exploder bio-luminescent betentacled and
betesticled forple pickup model with .000003's and a steely mumbabwe-shaped
LED-festooned whammy prosthetic autogroped by Kiss and kissed by Yngwie. 80
Terawatt amp, uses the Great Wall of China as a transducer. Plays E, G, C, but
not all at the same time, an old stiff white boy practice. Single digit IQ.
....not Jimmy, the critic.
Seth
Wes plays the majority (95%) of his solos inside.
And how many albums have you recorded, JD? Please let me know so I can go
purchase one and learn from such an accomplished musician as yourself.
> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
chris berbaum
Jurupari wrote:
> >> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
chris berbaum
JoeNovack
> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
Dear God,
According to JD, I am not asking for much........
Please make me a chase changing (I don't know what that means either,
God) shredder with a stiff white boy feel.
Also, if your not too busy, could you make my guitar lines diatonic and
trite, bordering on nonsense....kinda like what you did for that
slacker Bruno.
Thanks in advance,
Joe Novack
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris Goodchild
think JD is kind of an ass for making a statement like this without any back
up, he almost has a point. I've seen Jimmy play numerous times, and own
three of his albums. For the most part, he sounds as though he is just
playing patterns or excercises. My biggest criticism is that it seems that
Jimmy isn't listening to his group when he his comping. A lot of what I've
heard was just straight four to the bar comping -- not all the time, but a
lot of the time. Also, I once saw him play in quartet format, with a piano
player. Whenever the paino player would take a solo, Jimmy's uninventive
comping got in the way, and was too loud to even hear what the piano player
was doing.
JD wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:44:10 -0500, "gooeyboy"
> <gooe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Where do you live?
> >Where is the free show?
> >
> >gooeyboy
> >
> >
> >Steve Rivera <str...@psu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:85ob52$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> >> I looked in my local entertainment guide today to see who is playing
> >around
> >> town this weekend. and who do i see advertised for a free show? jimmy
> >Bruno.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
Jimmy Bruno
playing exercises for solos and drowning out the piano player, recording
duets with Howard Alden, Bobby Watson, Joey DeFrancesco etc, etc, ... I'm
sure glad I suck because if I was good I'd be straving
"Chris Goodchild" <jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:38D005CC...@emerald.tufts.edu...
Jimmy Bruno
you who doesn't understand the music? Can't be.... I forgot you.... are a
world class guitarist.... or am I wrong!!!!!!!!! This shit is so funny to
me you have no idea
"Jimmy Bruno" <ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote in message
news:4OTz4.2654$H5.2...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
Paul Shigihara
anyone who lives the life of a professional guitarist ( 100% income through
playing/teaching/recording ) would be more cautious with comments like
these - don´t get p.....d off, although sometimes it´s hard not to get angry
at
self-proclaimed music critics, who wish they would have been better
musicians....!
Ever talk to Liebman about critics ?
Jimmy Bruno
have nothing to hide. My rates are well known within the industry. Next
time I see Leib,,, I wil ask him. I think he is coming to Philly soon. We
have the same booking agent.
"Paul Shigihara" <ha...@pironet.de> wrote in message
news:38D01228...@pironet.de...
Jimmy Bruno
insightful guy both musically and spirtually. A true genius in the truest
sense of the word.news:38D0179E...@pironet.de...
> Ha,ha....I was referring to the fact that these guys probably don´t have
much
> to show for...
> Lieb is also going to be here in Cologne in April. He got a lot of flak
for an
> article on music
> critics in Down Beat a few years ago.
SteveN327
criticism for spending time helping other players with you web site, video,
chat group etc. Somehow JD overlooked this flaw in your character.
Steve
David Rastall
>I might be one of the few to seriously reply to this statement. While I
>think JD is kind of an ass for making a statement like this without any
back
>up, he almost has a point. I've seen Jimmy play numerous times, and own
>three of his albums. For the most part, he sounds as though he is just
>playing patterns or excercises. My biggest criticism is that it seems that
>Jimmy isn't listening to his group when he his comping. A lot of what I've
>heard was just straight four to the bar comping -- not all the time, but a
>lot of the time. Also, I once saw him play in quartet format, with a piano
>player. Whenever the paino player would take a solo, Jimmy's uninventive
>comping got in the way, and was too loud to even hear what the piano player
>was doing.
Any damn fool can be a critic;
But very few people can play as well as Jimmy Bruno.
David R
Donny Blair
Two years ago I quit following this newsgroup because of all the crap that gets
bantered about. By crap I mean infantile rantings of
under-endowed- pretend-to-be jazz guitarists, of which I count myself as one at
times...but thankfully mama taught me when to keep my mouth shut. It reminds
me of when I was about 11 and learning guitar when you had to compare yourself
with everyone else. I can see that, though the NG has somewhat evolved, there
are still those that, because of their severe inferiority complex and jealousy,
feel compelled to bash others here. It particularly makes me angry when we have
a bonified professional willing to share
his time, ideas, and approach to guitar get trashed. Jimmy Bruno is a jazz
guitarist's guitarist. Ask George Benson who Jimmy Bruno is and he will tell
you who he is. He may not know you, but he will know Jimmy Bruno.
We are here to respectfully share ideas. Before you trash someone's playing
that is of the stature of Jimmy Bruno, you need to have established some
"bonafidies" of your own. Therefore, I think only appropriate that, before any
further scathing personal reviews, the reviewer provide a sound bite of his/her
own playing plus a short resume of their professional careers. Just an idea.
Is it a full moon today or what?!
Donny
Jimmy Bruno wrote:
> > > > I might be one of the few to seriously reply to this statement. While
> I
> > > > think JD is kind of an ass for making a statement like this without
> any
> > > back
> > > > up, he almost has a point. I've seen Jimmy play numerous times, and
> own
> > > > three of his albums. For the most part, he sounds as though he is
> just
> > > > playing patterns or excercises. My biggest criticism is that it seems
> > > that
> > > > Jimmy isn't listening to his group when he his comping. A lot of what
> > > I've
> > > > heard was just straight four to the bar comping -- not all the time,
> but a
> > > > lot of the time. Also, I once saw him play in quartet format, with a
> > > piano
> > > > player. Whenever the paino player would take a solo, Jimmy's
> uninventive
> > > > comping got in the way, and was too loud to even hear what the piano
> > > player
> > > > was doing.
> > > >
Rick Ross
earshit remover is being mailed to your address.
In the future you should refrain from sticking your head up your ass. And
the symptoms should subside.
As far as your obsession with purchasing albums (you said you owned three of
Jimmy's) by guitarists you clearly do not appreciate..that issue will be
forwarded to RMMGJ psychiatric division for review.
Chris Goodchild wrote in message <38D005CC...@emerald.tufts.edu>...
Kevin Karrick
> it's nice to have your very own thread. Hey Chris... ever that maybe it is
> you who doesn't understand the music? Can't be.... I forgot you.... are a
> world class guitarist.... or am I wrong!!!!!!!!! This shit is so funny to
> me you have no idea
Jimmy, you're a class act. Being a public figure just seems to be magnet for
ridicule, whether constructive or not. Case in point, look at the beating Dan
Fahnle is taking (probably w/o his knowledge) on the "Diana Krall's Guitarist"
thread. And, most artists of your stature wouldn't dare come out in defense with
that kind of cander.. very refreshing.
By the way I was vacationing in Vegas a while back, and was told you had some
history there. You were referred to in a very positive sense by the way.
Kevin
Kevin Karrick
> > Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> > feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
> Dear God,
> According to JD, I am not asking for much........
> Please make me a chase changing (I don't know what that means either,
> God) shredder with a stiff white boy feel.
> Also, if your not too busy, could you make my guitar lines diatonic and
> trite, bordering on nonsense....kinda like what you did for that
> slacker Bruno.
> Thanks in advance,
> Joe Novack
That's funny - made my day.
Kevin
Paul Shigihara
to show for...
Lieb is also going to be here in Cologne in April. He got a lot of flak for an
article on music
critics in Down Beat a few years ago.
Jimmy Bruno wrote:
> The IRS knows exactly how much I make... but I appreciate your concern. I
> have nothing to hide. My rates are well known within the industry. Next
> time I see Leib,,, I wil ask him. I think he is coming to Philly soon. We
> have the same booking agent.
> "Paul Shigihara" <ha...@pironet.de> wrote in message
> news:38D01228...@pironet.de...
> > Jimmy,
> >
> > anyone who lives the life of a professional guitarist ( 100% income
> through
> > playing/teaching/recording ) would be more cautious with comments like
> > these - don愒 get p.....d off, although sometimes it愀 hard not to get
> angry
> > at
> > self-proclaimed music critics, who wish they would have been better
> > musicians....!
> > Ever talk to Liebman about critics ?
> >
> >
> > Jimmy Bruno wrote:
> >
> > > last year I made over $150,000 comping badly and not listening to the
> group,
> > > playing exercises for solos and drowning out the piano player, recording
> > > duets with Howard Alden, Bobby Watson, Joey DeFrancesco etc, etc, ...
> I'm
> > > sure glad I suck because if I was good I'd be straving
> > > "Chris Goodchild" <jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote in message
> > > news:38D005CC...@emerald.tufts.edu...
> > > > > Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
> > > > > feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
> > > > >
Mark Kleinhaut
Donny, this is truly the wierdest and most unpleasant day on this NG
that I have ever seen, and I'm sorry about the extent to which I have
participated in this day too. But, I'd just like to chime in and
second your opinion about Jimmy Bruno, not only is he an amazing player
but a real gentleman and sharing person as well. He was generous to
offer some really kind words to me about my CD to use for promotional
purpose. Now how many guys out there are willing to do that for a
total stranger. He is a role model in every respect.
Best wishes to all for a better tomorrow!
--
Mark Kleinhaut
Info and soundclips available at
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
Joey Goldstein
David Rastall wrote:
>
>
> Any damn fool can be a critic;
> But very few people can play as well as Jimmy Bruno.
Well said!
--
Regards:
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://webhome.idirect.com/~joegold
Email: <joegold AT idirect DOT com>
Donny Blair
Yes, let's hope for a brighter day! And I promise to squelch the EE
junk!! Ha.
Donny
Jimmy Bruno
fine musicians there, at least there were. Now there is no work so I doubt
if any of them still live there.
It's funny about Dan, I just met Dan at the NAmm show. I got to play a
tune with him and had opportunity to hear him play a lot. I think he's a
top player. Great feel, great time etc.. I loved listening to him. I
don't know about the Dianna Krall thing. It could be a number of factors.
I doubt he could sound bad... he's too good a player.
"Kevin Karrick" <kev...@iisites.com> wrote in message
news:38D038BA...@iisites.com...
Chris Goodchild
thought Jimmy sucked. He is an amazing guitar play no doubt. Whenever I
mention him to anyone I know, I always say that he may be the best technical
guitar player I've ever heard. However, I do have criticisms of him, just like
many of you might have about someone you may like. I truly wish like many of
you that I could play like Jimmy, but thats not the issue. The issue is that
many of you enjoy sucking up to people better than you, and don't listen to what
it is that is really being said. So next time pay attention to what I say, and
don't assume I think Jimmy sucks, cause I don't think that. And to Jimmy, I
think that its interesting that your reply was interesting because its truly as
I've always perceived you. It would be nice to have a serious talk with about
what you feel. Just because I say something that gets under your skin, doesn't
mean you have to attack me. Your words were harsh, but I'm here being serious
still, so I guess it can be done.
Donny Blair
"Therefore, I think it's only appropriate that, before any further scathing personal
reviews,
the reviewer provide a sound bite of his/her own playing plus a short resume of
their professional careers."
Nothing personal here, mind you. Just thought you might want to share your
qualifications
with us. That way, your review will have some real "meat" to it.
Chris Goodchild
their words. I still have ideas and opinions, and they have nothing to do with my
playing abilty. That being said, I'm willing to admit to you that I'm not in any kind
of league as Jimmy Bruno. However, I am also a freshmen in college. I realize that for
many of you, this might make you think that this kid has no idea what he is talking
about. For those people, I think you're ignorant. You may be older, but your opinions
are no more valid than mine. So lets continue bashing me, because I'm sure thats what
you want to do instead of having serious talks, and continue to base someones thoughts
on their playing ability, because as guitar players, I"m sure we all know that the
better player we are, the smarter we are too.
Chris Goodchild
better they are than me
Donny Blair wrote:
> Two years ago I quit following this newsgroup because of all the crap that gets
> bantered about. By crap I mean infantile rantings of
> under-endowed- pretend-to-be jazz guitarists, of which I count myself as one at
> times...but thankfully mama taught me when to keep my mouth shut. It reminds
> me of when I was about 11 and learning guitar when you had to compare yourself
> with everyone else. I can see that, though the NG has somewhat evolved, there
> are still those that, because of their severe inferiority complex and jealousy,
> feel compelled to bash others here. It particularly makes me angry when we have
> a bonified professional willing to share
> his time, ideas, and approach to guitar get trashed. Jimmy Bruno is a jazz
> guitarist's guitarist. Ask George Benson who Jimmy Bruno is and he will tell
> you who he is. He may not know you, but he will know Jimmy Bruno.
>
> We are here to respectfully share ideas. Before you trash someone's playing
> that is of the stature of Jimmy Bruno, you need to have established some
> "bonafidies" of your own. Therefore, I think only appropriate that, before any
> further scathing personal reviews, the reviewer provide a sound bite of his/her
> own playing plus a short resume of their professional careers. Just an idea.
>
> Is it a full moon today or what?!
>
> Donny
>
> Jimmy Bruno wrote:
>
> > The IRS knows exactly how much I make... but I appreciate your concern. I
> > have nothing to hide. My rates are well known within the industry. Next
> > time I see Leib,,, I wil ask him. I think he is coming to Philly soon. We
> > have the same booking agent.
> > "Paul Shigihara" <ha...@pironet.de> wrote in message
> > news:38D01228...@pironet.de...
> > > Jimmy,
> > >
> > > anyone who lives the life of a professional guitarist ( 100% income
> > through
> > > playing/teaching/recording ) would be more cautious with comments like
> > > these - don´t get p.....d off, although sometimes it´s hard not to get
JoeNovack
> I might be one of the few to seriously reply to this statement.
Chris,
Do you honestly believe that anyone's 21 word critique of ANY other
person's lifework is worth serious consideration, less serious response?
At least you had the cajones to articulate what you do not like about
Jimmy's work.
Peace,
Joe Novack
Mark Kleinhaut
Chris Goodchild <jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote:
> I didn't read this statement. However, why does someones "resume"
have any impact on
> their words. I still have ideas and opinions, and they have nothing
to do with my
> playing abilty. That being said, I'm willing to admit to you that I'm
not in any kind
> of league as Jimmy Bruno. However, I am also a freshmen in college. I
realize that for
> many of you, this might make you think that this kid has no idea what
he is talking
> about. For those people, I think you're ignorant. You may be older,
but your opinions
> are no more valid than mine. So lets continue bashing me, because I'm
sure thats what
> you want to do instead of having serious talks, and continue to base
someones thoughts
> on their playing ability, because as guitar players, I"m sure we all
know that the
> better player we are, the smarter we are too.
Look Chris, I'll spell it out for you. This newsgroup exists because
the people who post here care a great deal about jazz guitar, a unique
human artistic endeavor that takes a lifetime to master. For each
individual of Jimmy Bruno's stature there are a thousand wannabees
(probably including you). This isn't sucking up, this is just a simple
fact. Jimmy is where he is now because of his raw talent PLUS the fact
that he has worked his ass off since long before you were a twinkle in
your daddy's eye. This deserves respect, plain and simple, because
it's been earned.
Since you're a freshman in college lets assume you (or your parents)
are paying a substantial sum of money for you to be there and learn.
So, some grey bearded guy is up in front of your biochemistry class and
he's going on about monoclonal antibodies or some such shit and he's
got like nine PHds, Now if you stood up in the middle of the class and
said, "excuse me sir, but I read your scientific journal paper on blah
blah blah, and I think you made some mistakes in your thesis of blah
blah blah...." Well, you get the idea, don't you? Even though your're
spending like $30,000 to be there, you're going to get your ass thrown
right out of there for dissing the big guy with the grey beard, right?
Why, becuase he has paid his dues and you haven't. So, you've stepped
in some dogshit and the whole class is laughing at you. Get over it!
The point is that Jimmy and the other accomplished players in this
newsgroup don't have to waste their time fucking around with this
bullshit. Respect has been earned. No one is getting paid here, and
yet the knowlege being shared here is worth at least as much as your
30,000 tuition bill. If the Pros check out of here, then what will you
have? I'll tell you, just a bunch of snot high-school bands with names
like "JD And The Flame Trolls" who wouldn't know a lydian augmented
scale if it was stuck up their assholes.
Didn't anyone ever tell you its not just what you say, but how you say
it that gets your point accross. What were you hoping to discuss or
have "serious talks" about or share or learn in this newsgroup, by
going off the way you did? Its not that your opinions don't count.
They do. But by presenting your thoughts the way you did, you blew any
credibility you might have had. So now, no one is going to give two
craps what you think. What have you accomplished?
--
Mark Kleinhaut
Info and soundclips available at
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
Kevin Karrick
Diana's group, but I'll pass on those kind words next time I see him. I just met
him myself a couple of months ago.
Kevin
Donny Blair
sometimes useful in spurring one on to higher achievement. I'm jealous of Jimmy
Bruno, Tal Farlow, Wes Montgomery, and Jim Hall, among others. My reaction is to try
harder, to steal licks, practice more, to get better. This newsgroup is an
outstanding opportunity to increase your knowledge of jazz guitar. If only I'd had
access to this when I was your age. I would invite you to spend more time asking
questions about things that will help you become a better guitarist. I think we are
often too anxious to offer up opinions, rather than just learning to listen to what
more experienced players have to say. You will find, at least in this newsgroup, and
perhaps even beyond here, that humility and a desire to learn rather than critique can
take you very far. As for me, I've spent way too much time today offering my opinions
on this newsgroup when I should instead have been practicing guitar. If you've not
spent much time around musicians, particularly jazz musicians, then you need to
understand we all have big egos. Like other areas in life, there is an unspoken
protocol that demands common sense, courtesy, and sensitivity when dealing with
criticism. The only criticisms I've ever seen well received on this newsgroup were
from bonified professional guitarists or people involved in music for many years.
That's why this particular newsgroup is somewhat exclusive relative to most others and
why I'm still hanging around it. So, I think I'll leave it at that and wish you well
in your studies, have a nice Spring Break, and best of luck to you.
Donny
Chris Goodchild wrote:
> > > > these - don愒 get p.....d off, although sometimes it愀 hard not to get
Chris Smart
Seth (spe...@netaxs.com) wrote:
: Well, if you by diatonic, you meant inside playing, I hate to tell you that
: Wes plays the majority (95%) of his solos inside.
: And how many albums have you recorded, JD? Please let me know so I can go
: purchase one and learn from such an accomplished musician as yourself.
What does his playing have to do with his opinions of other players?
Disagree with him, that's fine, but at least argue sensibly. *laughs*
Just playing around; I'm just reading this thread for amusement.
Chris the very bored.
: > Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
: > feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
: >
: > Listen to a Wes album......
--
____________________________________________________________
http://www.braille.uwo.ca/~chriss
"Laughter is the only tenable attitude in a universe which is a joke played
upon itself"(Peter J. Carroll).
Chris Smart
A classic for sure! Mind if I keep that for r.m.m.g and alt.guitar
flamewars?
chris berbaum (cber...@pamd.cig.mot.com) wrote:
: ROTFL!!! .000000003's !!!
: Jurupari wrote:
: > >> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
: > >> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense
: >
: > Shouldn't that be "change-chasing"? tsk,tsk, posing is SO difficult....
: >
: > Brings to mind a spiked blond wig, nose ring and Satan tatoos, chromium taloned
: > codpiece, snake leather breeches and lucite high-heel Brogans with live
: > half-squashed cockroaches flailing about in the heels. Probably plays the Dean
: > Schecter DeSatanico reverse Exploder bio-luminescent betentacled and
: > betesticled forple pickup model with .000003's and a steely mumbabwe-shaped
: > LED-festooned whammy prosthetic autogroped by Kiss and kissed by Yngwie. 80
: > Terawatt amp, uses the Great Wall of China as a transducer. Plays E, G, C, but
: > not all at the same time, an old stiff white boy practice. Single digit IQ.
: >
: > ....not Jimmy, the critic.
Chris Smart
Distribution:
Chris Goodchild (jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu) wrote:
: I didn't read this statement. However, why does someones "resume" have any impact on
: their words. I still have ideas and opinions, and they have nothing to do with my
: playing abilty. That being said, I'm willing to admit to you that I'm not in any kind
: of league as Jimmy Bruno. However, I am also a freshmen in college. I realize that for
Also in college and I echo the sentiments above. What does my playing
have to do with my ability to listeen and respond to what I hear?
My playing is far behind my ability to listen and hear what's going on.
and, I haven't heard Jimmy but I plan on getting his video as soon as I
feel I am ready to benefit from it.
Chris Goodchild
I appreciate the seriousness of your latest response. I agree with you about the
jealousy thing, but I don't term it as such. It is a deep desire to become a better
player, and truly express myself in the jazz idiom. I just don't call it jealousy, but
its the same thing you describe. When i have questions, I do ask them. I was hoping with
my statement, I would create some more serious discussion. Thanks again
Chris Goodchild
wrong way. Using your analogy, I should have asked the teacher in a more
respectful manner. I thought I was coming off this way, but I guess I
wasn't. However, I don't think I was disrespecting Jimmy in anyway, at
least I hope not. I was just trying to give my honest opinion.
Mark Kleinhaut wrote:
> In article <38D0512D...@emerald.tufts.edu>,
> Chris Goodchild <jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote:
> > I didn't read this statement. However, why does someones "resume"
> have any impact on
> > their words. I still have ideas and opinions, and they have nothing
> to do with my
> > playing abilty. That being said, I'm willing to admit to you that I'm
> not in any kind
> > of league as Jimmy Bruno. However, I am also a freshmen in college. I
> realize that for
cali...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net
have a motto(and Im gonna say it even though no one cares), dont say
anything over the computer you wouldnt say to someones face. Now if Chris
walked up to Jimmy after one one of the shows he was at and said the same
thing as he did here, that would take" cajones", it would also be extremely
rude.Btw, Jimmy your in my top 5 .
JoeNovack wrote:
> > I might be one of the few to seriously reply to this statement.
>
> Chris,
> Do you honestly believe that anyone's 21 word critique of ANY other
> person's lifework is worth serious consideration, less serious response?
> At least you had the cajones to articulate what you do not like about
> Jimmy's work.
> Peace,
> Joe Novack
>
Paul Gitlitz
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:31:00 GMT, JoeNovack <joe...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>
>
>> Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white boy
>> feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
>
>
>Dear God,
>According to JD, I am not asking for much........
>Please make me a chase changing (I don't know what that means either,
>God) shredder with a stiff white boy feel.
>Also, if your not too busy, could you make my guitar lines diatonic and
>trite, bordering on nonsense....kinda like what you did for that
>slacker Bruno.
>Thanks in advance,
OAS...@aol.com
> last year I made over $150,000 comping badly and not listening to the
group,
> playing exercises for solos and drowning out the piano player,
recording
> duets with Howard Alden, Bobby Watson, Joey DeFrancesco etc, etc, ...
I'm
> sure glad I suck because if I was good I'd be straving
I'm glad that you are making it, but I bet you work your axx off. For
example, how many days you were on the road? How many home cooked
meals did you miss? Then you think about R&R'ers and the country guys
that make millions - unbelievable, isn't it? Talent and hard work don't
count as much as being young and able to squezze into leather pants, I
guess.
Greg
> "Chris Goodchild" <jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote in message
> news:38D005CC...@emerald.tufts.edu...
> > I might be one of the few to seriously reply to this statement.
> > > Why bother...he is a chase changing shredder with a stiff white
boy
> > > feel. His lines consist of diatonic, trite nonsense.
> > >
> > > Listen to a Wes album......
> >
>
>
Jimmy Bruno
easy to make blunders. I know because I made them all. My post was intended
to be funny; It didn't come off that way. But I have to tell you, when I
was your age I thought that my father and most people older than me didn't
know shit about anything. Now that I am 46 I realize they were right and I
was wrong. It is ironic that I now find myself at the other end of this
phenomenon. Peacenews:38D076DB...@emerald.tufts.edu...
Tom Walls
>
>
>Any damn fool can be a critic;
>But very few people can play as well as Jimmy Bruno.
>
>
Good summary, David!
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
JAlbin1916
>Look Chris, I'll spell it out for you. This newsgroup exists because
>the people who post here care a great deal about jazz guitar, a unique
>human artistic endeavor that takes a lifetime to master. For each
>individual of Jimmy Bruno's stature there are a thousand wannabees
>(probably including you). This isn't sucking up, this is just a simple
>fact. Jimmy is where he is now because of his raw talent PLUS the fact
>that he has worked his ass off since long before you were a twinkle in
>your daddy's eye. This deserves respect, plain and simple, because
>it's been earned.
I feel a little strange defending the original poster, because some of what he
said was pretty rude, in particular the sucking up comment. Still, there's
nothing inherently wrong with expressing a negative opinion about someone's
playing. As for the respect thing, a) I don't think Chris's first post
expressed dis-respect for Jimmy personally, or his efforts to get where he has
gotten professionally -- it expressed a negative based on what he thought he
heard; b) criticism doesn't have to be prefaced by expressions of respect.
Chris said that he didn't care for some of Jimmy's performances or recordings,
and gave some reasons why, albeit a bit cavalierly, but I've read far nastier
and more poorly informed reviews. The substance of what he said may be plain
wrong (e.g., maybe Jimmy wasn't stepping on other musicians in these
performances, his soloing was brilliant, and Chris is clueless), or there may
even be some truth to it (e.g., everybody has an off night), but he should be
allowed to say "I don't like something" without being shouted down. I'm
mindful that his comment came in the context of an over the top troll thread,
so I can see where some of the anger comes from, but it still strikes me as an
overreaction.
>So, some grey bearded guy is up in front of your biochemistry class and
>he's going on about monoclonal antibodies or some such shit and he's
>got like nine PHds, Now if you stood up in the middle of the class and
>said, "excuse me sir, but I read your scientific journal paper on blah
>blah blah, and I think you made some mistakes in your thesis of blah
>blah blah...." Well, you get the idea, don't you? Even though your're
>spending like $30,000 to be there, you're going to get your ass thrown
>right out of there for dissing the big guy with the grey beard, right?
>Why, becuase he has paid his dues and you haven't. So, you've stepped
>in some dogshit and the whole class is laughing at you. Get over it!
>
You're setting up a straw man here. In reality, I think this hypothetical
would work out quite differently, and would underscore the inappropriateness of
the collective response to our young friend. Any "graybeard" worth his PhD
would be thrilled by this challenge. Every professor I've ever met (and I'm
the son of two of them, so I've met a lot) complains that his students pay no
attention in class, don't read anything that's not on the syllabus, and don't
think any further or deeper than they need to get an acceptable grade. The
profs love it when someone actually takes notice of their work and tries to
debate its merits. Old chalk-and-guts at the front of the class would love the
publicity, and the frat boys in the back row would wake up for the first time
all semester. Controversy (as long as it actually stays on some kind of topic
and doesn't get too nasty) is healthy and interesting. We shouldn't be so
quick to squelch it.
>Didn't anyone ever tell you its not just what you say, but how you say
>it that gets your point accross.
True, but there's something to be said for being a provocateur. Besides
/<condescension-dismissiveness on> he's only a freshman
/<condescension-dismissiveness off>.
> What were you hoping to discuss or
>have "serious talks" about or share or learn in this newsgroup, by
>going off the way you did? Its not that your opinions don't count.
>They do. But by presenting your thoughts the way you did, you blew any
>credibility you might have had. So now, no one is going to give two
>craps what you think. What have you accomplished?
>
The "serious talks" bit was an obvious beard for his initial thoughtlessness.
You know, it's unfortunate that the thread went this way, because it would have
been interesting to see some follow-through on the substance of what he said.
Maybe if he had approached it more in the vein of our Parker-challenged friend
on another thread things would have gone more smoothely. On the other hand, I
think a lot of the respondents took it way too personally. If he what he said
about Jimmy's playing was off base, explain why. Telling him that he has no
right to criticize his betters accomplishes substantially less than his
original sophomoric (hey that's pretty advanced for a freshman!) comments.
-John
Nuke "hatespam" to reply
fretwiz
> I didn't read this statement. However, why does someones "resume" have
> any impact on
> their words.
The fact that you have to ask this question speaks volumes. When you
have experienced enough of life,(age is usually a prequisite but needn't
be for this to occur) most likely, you won't be asking questions like
this. You will understand that people value the words of other people
for specific reasons, not simply because they are able to speak. Usually
these reasons encompass a certain amount of knowledge and/or respect.
> I still have ideas and opinions, and they have nothing to
> do with my
> playing abilty.
Obviously, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, but you seem
ignorant of the fact that feedback from not diplomatically expressing
them may be part of the bargain.
> That being said, I'm willing to admit to you that I'm
> not in any kind
> of league as Jimmy Bruno. However, I am also a freshmen in college. I
> realize that for
> many of you, this might make you think that this kid has no idea what he
> is talking
> about.
Like I said above, age needn't be the determining factor. People will
generally focus in on the words you speak before the question of age and
inexperience comes into the conversation. Perceptions of you will
develop very quickly depending on HOW you say what you say, every bit as
much as what you actually DO say. It generally holds true that one must
'prove' oneself before others begin to respect his/her opinions.
> For those people, I think you're ignorant. You may be older, but
> your opinions
> are no more valid than mine.
It's fairly obvious that you don't realize that your statement above is
itself entirely a matter of opinion, which may, or may not be shared by
those around you. This actually makes YOU the one that is ignorant.
Please understand this last statement for how I intend it to sound, and
that is merely informative, not pejorative. Validity of opinion is
questioned constantly everyday, in all walks of life from all age
groups. It's quite possible your opinions are valid on any particular
subject, but consider that your problems arise when someone other than
yourself is evaluating those opinions. Decreeing your own opinions valid
accomplishes little and settles nothing.
> So lets continue bashing me, because I'm
> sure thats what
> you want to do instead of having serious talks, and continue to base
> someones thoughts
> on their playing ability, because as guitar players, I"m sure we all know
> that the
> better player we are, the smarter we are too.
I hope you don't perceive this post as a 'bash', as it's certainly not
intended as such. I do understand why you seemed to have gotten a bit
defensive and I don't want to exacerbate the situation, but you must
really consider WHERE you post what you post, every bit as much as HOW
and WHAT you actually post if you want your opinions to be respected.
Speaking to those with closed ears doesn't lend itself to opinion
validating much.
fretwiz
Michael Ellenberger
Mike
Kevin Van Sant
here, for one thing group is not Jimmy's or anyone else's forum.
Certainly there are those here with much more experience than most who
are deserving of respect for that, but as far as opinions go I say one
is just as valid as another. That being said I know that generally I
will value the opinion of someone I highly respect over a total
stranger and certainly I am prone to disregard the opinion of someone
who I think is an idiot or a prick. Obviously this "JD" fellow was
just trolling, but I think Chris was for the most part respectfully
voicing his opinion about a well known guitarist's playing, something
that is very common in this group, I don't think that just because
that guitarist (J Bruno) happens to participate here that non
warm-fuzzy opinions shouldn't be voiced. Are we going to censor
ourselves?
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 04:25:55 GMT, Mark Kleinhaut
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote
>it's been earned.
>
>Since you're a freshman in college lets assume you (or your parents)
>are paying a substantial sum of money for you to be there and learn.
>So, some grey bearded guy is up in front of your biochemistry class and
>he's going on about monoclonal antibodies or some such shit and he's
>got like nine PHds, Now if you stood up in the middle of the class and
>said, "excuse me sir, but I read your scientific journal paper on blah
>blah blah, and I think you made some mistakes in your thesis of blah
>blah blah...." Well, you get the idea, don't you? Even though your're
>spending like $30,000 to be there, you're going to get your ass thrown
>right out of there for dissing the big guy with the grey beard, right?
>Why, becuase he has paid his dues and you haven't. So, you've stepped
>in some dogshit and the whole class is laughing at you. Get over it!
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
Jazz Guitar
www.mindspring.com/~jazure/music.html - to buy my CDs and listen to J'Azure
www.onestopjazz.com - for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
www.mindspring.com/~kvansant - for jazz guitar samples and info
Jurupari
>are no more valid than mine.
Um, that's just a bit TOO democratic! Everyone's entitled to an opinion, of
course, but the opinion must earn its own merit.
The word "fan" is short for fanatic. As a fan of music it's perfectly OK to
hate this one and love that one for whatever reasons. As one, you can
criticize Jimmy or anyone for the color shirt they wear, for all it has to do
with music and that's OK. If you buy recordings, I'm assuming this is some
concession to fandom.
However, unless you are extremely gifted, it's a fair question whether you
could just yet distinguish good comping from bad or a good line from a bad one
in any consistent fashion. This is an art that supplants language after all,
and becoming truly fluent in it in a bi-directional (playing and hearing) sense
can take a lifetime.
Unless the piano player bitched about it, you wouldn't be talking about
anything but your taste, and that's of a college freshman who hasn't come that
far in the art as yet. If you're talking as a fan, cool, but this isn't a fan
newsgroup.
I had thought the original flamer was some pal of Jimmy's since the post was so
obviously 180 degrees out of phase idiotic, and in the spirit of fun I posted
my impression of the poster, whom I secretly suspected was probably some
grizzled L5 player.
Seriously, though, when you get to the point where you can count all the way
through something Jimmy plays, and can stop a recording anywhere and sing the
last few notes he's played, play it on your instrument in time, and know what
the change was, and have also gone back and heard some of the masters he
listened to coming along, you'll get a better idea of why he has the reputation
he does. (I've only been posting here for less than a year, and I don't buy
recordings, but I've been hearing about Jimmy Bruno for at least ten. Word
gets around if you're good.)
As to musicality, one of the most impressive things I've heard him play was the
C major scale in one of the exercises he'd asked the NG to access as a test.
When he played it, it was music, not a scale at all.
The other thing I can tell you unequivocally, although I only know Jimmy
through his reputation, online music and presence and the occasional email
exchange:
If he heard you play, he would unhesitatingly encourage your efforts and
compliment you on your strenghs - hell, I would, too and most likely so would
any of the players who post regularly here. It's tough to play jazz, and
anyone making any kind of progress at any level deserves to be told so and
encouraged.
So please save the flaming for dorm chats or radio music, and come here to
learn. There are so many free resources from this single global oasis, it's a
pity to muddy it for superficial reasons.
Regards,
Clif Kuplen
http://members.aol.com/jurupari
Wound3rd
>was your age I thought that my father and most people older than me didn't
>know shit about anything. Now that I am 46 I realize they were right and I
>was wrong. It is ironic that I now find myself at the other end of this
>phenomenon
Exactly!, Jimmy.Well sort of. When you are young you ARE right for your age.But
you gotta start somewhere.
I have learned that it is all about timing. We are all destined to go through
all of life's stuff. We all criticize up until the point we realize that we are
no different than anyone else.We are only waiting our turns.
My first Wes album was "Bumpin'"
Yeah, some would say it's commercial crap or tell me how Wes "sold out." But so
what? It's what turned me on to this stuff! It's what happened at that
particular time and everyone has to start somewhere.
One of my big disappointments about "growing up" is that the world will
basically stay the same. Why? Because we are all at different points (and
coming from different directions) in our lives. That's why "kids don't listen
to my experience." They have to learn the same way I did. The same way everyone
does.
Bob
Kevin Van Sant
<roki...@simplyweb.net> wrote in message
<cxVz4.378$vb....@newsfeed.slurp.net> :
>As far as your obsession with purchasing albums (you said you owned three of
>Jimmy's) by guitarists you clearly do not appreciate..that issue will be
>forwarded to RMMGJ psychiatric division for review.
Easy now Rick, I've bought a lot of guitarist's disks because I wanted
to check them out. Sometimes just for curiosity, sometimes because I
feel like I *should* be getting something from it. I don't like all
of them, but sometimes I'll buy more thinking I might find something
that strikes me more. For example, I know Jack Wilkins is a
phenomenal player, I've seen him perform. I recently bought Trio Art,
but I really just can't get into the record at all, but I know I'll
buy more Wilkins CDs sometime anyway. And I don't think I need to
seek help because of that.
Maybe I'm giving Chris too much credit but it seems to me that the
fact that he has 3 of Jimmy's CDs and that he has gone to hear him
live would indicate that he had put some considered research into his
opinions, as opposed to JD's shallow trolling.
Kevin Van Sant
message <20000316124640...@ng-da1.aol.com> :
>However, unless you are extremely gifted, it's a fair question whether you
>could just yet distinguish good comping from bad or a good line from a bad one
>in any consistent fashion.
I disagree. And for an example of why: the other night I went with
my girlfriend to hear a band that included Howard Alden and Cedar
Walton. They opened with "A Train", before they were through the
first chorus I was thinking that the guitar was clashing with the
piano. During the second chorus my girlfriend who is not a musician
leaned over to say something to the effect of "the guitar player needs
to chill out". She did not know as I did that Howard was altering
all of his dominant chords differently from Cedar, but she nonetheless
formed the same valid *opinion*, the guitar player needs to chill out.
Later Howard played Nuages with just bass and drums and it was
fabulous.
Tom Walls
>
>And now let's all join hands and sing Kumbya.
>
>Mike
>
Kevin Van Sant
<kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
<sna2ds03b4h058529...@4ax.com> :
>Later Howard played Nuages with just bass and drums and it was
>fabulous.
On the subject of Howard, what on earth has happened to him? I think
I've read that he has some kind of rare disease, is it some sort of
Thyroid condition? When I saw him the other night he looked like an
entirely different person, he also seemed to have a little difficulty
walking steady. Is he OK, is the prognosis good? His playing seemed
to be unaffected, meaning (the clashing with Cedar bit aside) he
seemed to still have his chops.
Tom Walls
says...
>
>Mark I'm not so sure your biochemistry classroom analogy really works
>here, for one thing group is not Jimmy's or anyone else's forum.
>Certainly there are those here with much more experience than most who
>are deserving of respect for that, but as far as opinions go I say one
>is just as valid as another.
If Chris is at all familliar with rmmgj, then he is aware that Jimmy posts
here, and his criticism was pretty broad and lacked diplomacy to say the
least. I suspect if Chris had been criticising Peter Bernstein, for example,
he probably would have generated a few posts pro and con and that would have
been the extent of it.
Jonathan Byrd
>
> I didn't read this statement. However, why does someones "resume" have any impact on
> playing abilty.
Hi Chris,
Allow me to answer that one for you.
To the extent one's opinions are based upon objective qualities that
anyone can verify for herself, those opinions do not have to be
qualified by a resume.
When one's opinions are highly subjective, people naturally will wonder
how much knowledge, experience, and brain power went into formulating
them. For what else is there upon which to base an evaluation of that
opinion? Only a fool would accept an opinion without question. Smart
people always look around for some sort of corroborating information.
You yourself noted that the original article criticising Mr. Bruno's
playing lacked any back-up, but then you appeared to commit the same
error in your article. The only back-up you offered was that you have
listened to him play, which is surely the smallest possible requirement.
To beef up your opinions (i.e., make them more objectively verifiable)
you need to be more specific. Of course musical taste is always partly
subjective, but that does not place the opinions of fools (not intended
as an insult directed at you) on par with the opinions of wise people.
Subjective interpretations are inevitable, but they must be punctuated
by objective information (such as: at what point in which song on which
recording did Mr. Bruno drown out the piano player, or play little
besides simple scalar runs?) to carry any weight. If it is not possible
to provide any such objective information, you can at least convince us
you know what you're talking about because you have a good deal of high
quality experience that is directly relevant to the topic under
consideration.
If you can't back up strongly worded opinions with *something*, then you
are inviting disdain. And the more strongly worded and controversial
the opinion, the stronger the foundations of that opinion must be in
order to persuade anyone.
Strong opinions without any basis in fact are known collectively as
"religion," and are beyond the scope of this newsgroup. ;-)
--
Jonathan Byrd Idaho State University
j...@isu.edu Pocatello, Idaho, USA
Tom Jaffe
Mr. Bruno as is he were the King of Jazz Guitar Kings. He is not. The criticism has nothing
to due with his technical ability (he certainly has that), but due to the fact that his
music does not live up to the hype. When one feels that they have been sold a bill of
goods, they react angrily. I hope there are more interesting things to talk about in this
newsgroup other than Mr. Bruno.
Michael Ellenberger
seemed everyone was settling down and reaching an
understanding. My small attempt at a little humor
to lighten things up must have missed you.
Mike
Tom Walls wrote:
> In article <38D113A4...@amdahl.com>, mike_ell...@amdahl.com says...
> >
> >And now let's all join hands and sing Kumbya.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> I'm afraid I'm missing your point, Mike.
George4908
>here, and his criticism was pretty broad and lacked diplomacy to say the
>least. I suspect if Chris had been criticising Peter Bernstein, for example,
>he probably would have generated a few posts pro and con and that would have
>been the extent of it.
I think this cuts to the heart of the matter very well. We all have opinions
on things, whether well reasoned or half-baked. And just because they're
half-baked sometimes, it doesn't necesarily stop us from voicing them, that's
just human nature. But some degree of restraint is appropriate if the person
you're criticizing -- fairly or unfairly -- is within earshot. Lots of people
here have expressed the view that George Benson "sold out" many years ago, etc.
Debatable point, good discussion topic. But if you ran into George Benson on
the sidewalk, would you say that to his face? Or would you shut up and say,
hey, great to meet you? That's not ass-kissing or censorship. It's just plain
courtesy and civility. Chris' comment may not have been the most virulent
flame on the newsgroups (not by a long shot!), but to lob it out where Jimmy
Bruno can and probably will see it, what on earth is he expecting except to get
blasted in return? He probably wasn't expecting it. So he's learned a little
lesson, which is good. He's indicated as much with his subsequent posts. None
of us gets to a ripe old age without putting our foot in it once in a while.
Jimmy Bruno
with HOward, he hears everything and is the most complimentary guitarist I
know. Howard can make anyone sound good.news:sna2ds03b4h058529...@4ax.com...
> On 16 Mar 2000 17:46:40 GMT, juru...@aol.com (Jurupari) wrote in
> message <20000316124640...@ng-da1.aol.com> :
>
> >However, unless you are extremely gifted, it's a fair question whether
you
> >could just yet distinguish good comping from bad or a good line from a
bad one
> >in any consistent fashion.
>
> I disagree. And for an example of why: the other night I went with
> my girlfriend to hear a band that included Howard Alden and Cedar
> Walton. They opened with "A Train", before they were through the
> first chorus I was thinking that the guitar was clashing with the
> piano. During the second chorus my girlfriend who is not a musician
> leaned over to say something to the effect of "the guitar player needs
> to chill out". She did not know as I did that Howard was altering
> all of his dominant chords differently from Cedar, but she nonetheless
> formed the same valid *opinion*, the guitar player needs to chill out.
>
> fabulous.
>
>
Jimmy Bruno
medications has caused him to put on weight but he is fine otherwise. They
are hoping that the disease will go away as mysteriously as it had appeared.
This is the nature of this particular ailment. I don't think I should
comment anymore. HOward is a very private person . I assure you that he is
OK and feeling fine and playing better than ever.news:bkb2dsgb0ktg13uuo...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:54:05 -0500, Kevin Van Sant
> <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
> <sna2ds03b4h058529...@4ax.com> :
>
> >Later Howard played Nuages with just bass and drums and it was
> >fabulous.
>
>
> I've read that he has some kind of rare disease, is it some sort of
> Thyroid condition? When I saw him the other night he looked like an
> entirely different person, he also seemed to have a little difficulty
> walking steady. Is he OK, is the prognosis good? His playing seemed
> to be unaffected, meaning (the clashing with Cedar bit aside) he
> seemed to still have his chops.
>
>
Jimmy Bruno
Jimmy Bruno
"Jonathan Byrd" <j...@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:38D135B4...@isu.edu...
Jimmy Bruno
"Tom Jaffe" <tja...@eesjobs.com> wrote in message
news:38D13C87...@eesjobs.com...
> The only "religion" practiced by this newsgroup is the blind (or is it
deaf) reverence for
> Mr. Bruno as is he were the King of Jazz Guitar Kings. He is not. The
criticism has nothing
> to due with his technical ability (he certainly has that), but due to the
fact that his
> music does not live up to the hype. When one feels that they have been
sold a bill of
> goods, they react angrily. I hope there are more interesting things to
talk about in this
> newsgroup other than Mr. Bruno.
>
> Jonathan Byrd wrote:
>
Jimmy Bruno
happens all by itself. I didn't cause my recognition to happen by willing
it. I made one record and people reacted. That caused the record guys to
sign me for more etc. And so the story goes but you have to understand...
all I did was play the guitar...!!!!!
David Moss
"Tom Jaffe" wrote...
> The only "religion" practiced by this newsgroup is the blind (or is it
deaf) reverence for
> Mr. Bruno as is he were the King of Jazz Guitar Kings. He is not. The
criticism has nothing
> to due with his technical ability (he certainly has that), but due to the
fact that his
> music does not live up to the hype. When one feels that they have been
sold a bill of
> goods, they react angrily.
Yeah, but are you sure the hype you're referring to isn't just a figment of
your imagination? What I've seen about Jimmy is stuff like "he plays from
within the tradition of straight-ahead jazz while taking the guitar to a new
technical level" and "he knows jazz, uses his technique for musical ends,
and can play pretty and swing hard" and "one of the finest jazz guitarists
in Philadelphia". Where, exactly, have you seen bigger claims than that?
Paul Shigihara
about regarding jazz guitar ? Are you in the position to offer us something other than
being totally judgmental and condescending ? Are you a pro or a weekend warrior ?
Most pros will never pass judgment this way. Let愀 hear it !!
Tom Jaffe wrote:
> The only "religion" practiced by this newsgroup is the blind (or is it deaf) reverence for
> Mr. Bruno as is he were the King of Jazz Guitar Kings. He is not. The criticism has nothing
> to due with his technical ability (he certainly has that), but due to the fact that his
> music does not live up to the hype. When one feels that they have been sold a bill of
Jimmy Bruno
"George4908" <georg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000316152534...@ng-xe1.aol.com...
Paul Gitlitz
>She did not know as I did that Howard was altering
>all of his dominant chords differently from Cedar, but she nonetheless
>formed the same valid *opinion*, the guitar player needs to chill out.
I'm afraid I have to agree. I'm fairly venerable as player go (47).
I've played music since I was 8. But I have friends who can't play or
sing who have impeccable musical taste and can elucidate in an
unassailable manner the pros and cons of individual players without
the benefits of techno jargon.
Tom Walls
>
Witness the tremendous power of the emoticon. :<)
Tom Walls
>
>The only "religion" practiced by this newsgroup is the blind (or is it deaf)
reverence for
>Mr. Bruno as is he were the King of Jazz Guitar Kings. He is not.
Well, you're right about that -- *I* happen to be King of the Jazz Guitar
Kings! That's right -- and so is my wife!
JAlbin1916
>Hi Chris,
>
>Allow me to answer that one for you.
>
>To the extent one's opinions are based upon objective qualities that
>anyone can verify for herself, those opinions do not have to be
>qualified by a resume.
>
>When one's opinions are highly subjective, people naturally will wonder
>how much knowledge, experience, and brain power went into formulating
>them. For what else is there upon which to base an evaluation of that
>opinion? Only a fool would accept an opinion without question. Smart
>people always look around for some sort of corroborating information.
>
>You yourself noted that the original article criticising Mr. Bruno's
>playing lacked any back-up, but then you appeared to commit the same
>error in your article. The only back-up you offered was that you have
>listened to him play, which is surely the smallest possible requirement.
This is really not a fair reading of Chris's post. He actually did say fairly
specifically and clearly what he thought, in a fashion open to rebuttal from
someone else who saw the same performances, though, perhaps he should have
provided more detail in order to facilitate such a rebuttal.
> If it is not possible
>to provide any such objective information, you can at least convince us
>you know what you're talking about because you have a good deal of high
>quality experience that is directly relevant to the topic under
>consideration.
This just isn't a reasonable standard for assessing someone's qualifications to
express an opinion. The truth or reasonableness of a statement doesn't depend
on who states it. Yes, as a matter of psychology we all tend to consider the
source. However, as a matter of logic or sound rhetoric, to do so is to commit
a fallacy, except in instances where the speaker offers his reputation as the
only justification for the utterance, which is not the case here.
-John
Nuke "hatespam" to reply
John Wasak
Without techno jargon? You mean like, they say, "He's great!" or "He
sucks!" ?
Being one year younger than you and somewhat less 'venerable', I have to say
that friends of mine that don't know much about music have some of the worst
taste going! (IMO of course!)
JW
Joey Goldstein
presents the Newport Jazz Allstars or something like that). I had the
same impression. Too many compers. It wasn't happening when the two of
them comped at the same time.
I think I may have seen the 1st concert of this tour also because it was
really rough in spots.
I didn't know Howard was ill and that his weight was a symptom. He
played great and I was just happy to see a guitar player who is better
than me also being fatter than me. <g> Hope he gets better soon.
Kevin Van Sant wrote:
>
> On 16 Mar 2000 17:46:40 GMT, juru...@aol.com (Jurupari) wrote in
> message <20000316124640...@ng-da1.aol.com> :
>
> >However, unless you are extremely gifted, it's a fair question whether you
> >could just yet distinguish good comping from bad or a good line from a bad one
> >in any consistent fashion.
>
> I disagree. And for an example of why: the other night I went with
> my girlfriend to hear a band that included Howard Alden and Cedar
> Walton. They opened with "A Train", before they were through the
> first chorus I was thinking that the guitar was clashing with the
> piano. During the second chorus my girlfriend who is not a musician
> leaned over to say something to the effect of "the guitar player needs
> to chill out". She did not know as I did that Howard was altering
> all of his dominant chords differently from Cedar, but she nonetheless
> formed the same valid *opinion*, the guitar player needs to chill out.
>
> Later Howard played Nuages with just bass and drums and it was
> fabulous.
>
Gil Ayan
news:38D0AF7E...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net...
> How much "cajones" does it take to bash a guy over the fricken computer?
I
> have a motto(and Im gonna say it even though no one cares), dont say
> anything over the computer you wouldnt say to someones face. Now if Chris
> walked up to Jimmy after one one of the shows he was at and said the same
> thing as he did here, that would take" cajones", it would also be
extremely
> rude.Btw, Jimmy your in my top 5 .
>
> JoeNovack wrote:
[I have seldom if ever posted in this newsgroup before, but I enjoy most of
what's said on RMMGJ. And, yes I too am a guitar player - have been for
about 33 years, to be precise, and sure enough, I do bend strings on
electric about 90% of the time. So sue me -- so much for my humble,
suicidal, introduction.]
I spotted Jimmy during the NAMM 1999 here in L.A., and while there are a
great many, very talented players in this lovely town, everyone knows when
someone is really happening -- and the funny thing is that you will hear the
buzz in a very "confidential tone." Well, the consensus was that Jimmy was
simply an incredible guitarist. I did get a chance to hear Jimmy last year,
and the guy is an inspiration, as simple as that. And when you see him you
get a bonus: he's got a pretty good sense of humor to go with the music.
This year I was hoping that Jimmy would be hanging around NAMM again, and he
sure was. I saw him in a Johnny Smith tribute thing that the Fender/Guild
people put together at a fancy hotel. The event was very, very nice, and we
were fortunate enough to hear the likes of Kenny Burrell, Howard Alden
and... Jimmy Bruno among others -- and the interesting (since Jimmy brought
up the issue of money) thing is that of all the players that performed, the
one that probably makes the most $ is a local studio cat, a very good
guitarist in his own right, but one who simply can't play jazz, and the. :)
Jimmy closed the show and his playing was what brought the audience to a
frantic state. I enjoyed Joe Pass and Wes while they were around, and I
still consider them two of my favorite jazz guitarists. But I had never
been as excited about any bebopper as I was by Jimmy on that occasion.
Jimmy: the "Bach rendition" (direct quote) of "All the Things You Are" (that
was the tune, right? :/) was as original as Miles Davis' version of
"Concierto de Arajuez" on Sketches of Spain, and it was as good as guitar
gets. Yes, Jimmy has technique to spare, but he makes pretty music too, and
that's the bottom line. And if someone thinks Jimmy's a shredder, more
power to the shredder. For starters music is music -- and no one is divine
enough to decide whether "Yngwie" is as worthy as Django. But even then,
perhaps what one should say is: we all have clichés we play over and over.
Some people's bags of tricks are larger, but even John Coltrane has
"automatic-pilot licks" he repeated if you pay close attention when
listening to his work. Some have very trivial clichés that no one gives a
second listen to, so there is not much to remember. Then others, like Jimmy,
have clichés that jump out at you because as you're watching the guy with
his instrument you can't help but wonder: "How the hell did he do THAT?"
So Jimmy, ride the flame war -- it happens to everyone, sooner or later --
and I do look forward to seeing you in L.A. next year (well, back to Anaheim
in 2001). By the way, do you know why Kenny Burrell was pissed off that
evening? He seemed to be in grump city.
Gil
Jonathan Byrd
>
> Jonathan Byrd j...@isu.edu wrote:
> >
> >You yourself noted that the original article criticising Mr. Bruno's
> >playing lacked any back-up, but then you appeared to commit the same
> >error in your article. The only back-up you offered was that you have
> >listened to him play, which is surely the smallest possible requirement.
>
> This is really not a fair reading of Chris's post. He actually did say fairly
> specifically and clearly what he thought, in a fashion open to rebuttal from
> someone else who saw the same performances, though, perhaps he should have
> provided more detail in order to facilitate such a rebuttal.
You're right. That's a good point, thank you. I overstated the case in
my zeal to illustrate my point and I apologize.
> > If it is not possible
> >to provide any such objective information, you can at least convince us
> >you know what you're talking about because you have a good deal of high
> >quality experience that is directly relevant to the topic under
> >consideration.
>
> This just isn't a reasonable standard for assessing someone's qualifications to
> express an opinion.
I wouldn't presume to tell anyone that they are not qualified to express
an opinion. But a person's qualifications surely must count somewhere
in the evaluation of the soundness of the opinion. To use analogy, I
would be much more alarmed if my physician told me I needed a risky
operation than if my accountant told me the same thing.
> The truth or reasonableness of a statement doesn't depend
> on who states it.
As a matter of formal logic, yes. Of course the underlying assumption
there is that the truth is objectively verifiable. I attempted to
address that case in the first paragraph of my previous article in this
thread.
> Yes, as a matter of psychology we all tend to consider the
> source. However, as a matter of logic or sound rhetoric, to do so is to commit
> a fallacy, except in instances where the speaker offers his reputation as the
> only justification for the utterance, which is not the case here.
I would say that it is not so much a matter of psychology as it is a
matter of probability. When there is no way to objectively quantify the
truth content of an opinion, my money will always be on the opinion of
the person with the greatest amount of high quality, relevant,
experience. That simply follows from the widely observed fact that more
and higher quality experience frequently leads to a higher level of
understanding, better judgement, and more proficient practice.
Paul Gitlitz
wrote:
>Being one year younger than you and somewhat less 'venerable', I have to say
>that friends of mine that don't know much about music have some of the worst
>taste going! (IMO of course!)
Ah, Youthful folly speaks again. Perhaps you need new friends?
Really I was only speaking of one couple I know who are ardent music
lovers. They are also extremely literate and know how to turn a phrase
without the benefits of a formal music education. They for instance
could say if they felt the backup was crowding or walking on a solo,
without referring to it as comping and balance.
I'm not suggesting anything the original poster of Jimmy critique is
my opinion and it certainly was expressed indelicately, I just was
agreeing with a latter post, much to my chagrin, about not always
needing to have the training to know what you like and why.
hyman matthew
I noticed in the newspaper that Jimmy Bruno is playing in the
Baltimore area sometime coming up. Unfortunately, my mom threw that away.
Could anyone, maybe Jimmy, give me the info.
Thanks
Matt
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message <38d175a0...@news.hal-pc.org> :
>On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:12:14 GMT, Chris Goodchild
><jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote:
>
>>of league as Jimmy Bruno. However, I am also a freshmen in college.
>
>The sad part is that he's a college freshman and can't even spell it.
>
Oh I totally agree, I immediately dismiss anyone who perpetrates a
typo.
-Kevan.
Jimmy Bruno
girlfriend
"Gil Ayan" <ay...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8arrga$svu$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
Jimmy Bruno
them feel. And that... is the bottom line. If it feels good people like it
and don't know why. And that's all that matters. If you are an artist and
you can't communicate you are living a lie. You need to have people on the
other end.... either listening, watching, interpreting, feeling etc.
Without the audience there is no art. And without a reaction good or bad
there is no art. So with music it's the feel, the groove. Way beyond the
notes the technique etc.
"Paul Gitlitz" <paulg@point bob.net> wrote in message
news:rhs2dssg0k0oqgu7s...@4ax.com...
Stan Gosnell
<jgoo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote:
>of league as Jimmy Bruno. However, I am also a freshmen in college.
The sad part is that he's a college freshman and can't even spell it.
---
Regards,
Stan
gooeyboy
I have heard Howard play live in all kinds of settings
He plays so well it makes me want to cry.
gooeyboy
Jimmy Bruno <ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote in message
news:fzbA4.2894$H5.3...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
> Howard Alden has the best ears in the world. I doubt that the problem was
> with HOward, he hears everything and is the most complimentary guitarist
I
> know. Howard can make anyone sound good.
> "Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:sna2ds03b4h058529...@4ax.com...
George4908
>sing who have impeccable musical taste and can elucidate in an
>unassailable manner the pros and cons of individual players without
>the benefits of techno jargon
Yes. I sometimes drag (okay, take) my wife to jazz guitar performances. She's
not a player, so I know she's not appreciating the "degree of difficulty" in
the way I might, and she couldn't tell you the first thing about music theory.
But she loves the tunes and when it's a good night of music, we both know it,
and if it's an off night, we invariably agree on that, too. If it's good
music, it comes through regardless.
David Moss
"Jimmy Bruno" wrote...
> the only thing that non-musicians truly know about music is how it makes
> them feel. And that... is the bottom line. If it feels good people like
it
> and don't know why. And that's all that matters. If you are an artist
and
> you can't communicate you are living a lie. You need to have people on
the
> other end.... either listening, watching, interpreting, feeling etc.
> Without the audience there is no art. And without a reaction good or bad
> there is no art. So with music it's the feel, the groove. Way beyond the
> notes the technique etc.
Well said, Jimmy! I agree very strongly with that. My personal opinion is
that
it's a huge mistake for musicians to look down on non-musicians' judgements
about music. If you're making music that only the musically educated know
how to appreciate, you're failing as an artist.
In fact, I'd never been sure whether pro musicians see it that way -
I had a suspicion that most of them care more about what their peers
think, and react to criticism from non-musicians with "What does he
know about it?". I'm delighted to see a musician of Jimmy's stature
contradicting that impression.
Chris Smart
: sucks!" ?
no no, i'ts rulz and sucks man. like dude, come on!
:)
: that friends of mine that don't know much about music have some of the worst
: taste going! (IMO of course!)
same here, imho, and I'm much younger. Celine dion and Brian Adams are
probably the two most visible musical exports of my country. Aarrrgh.
: JW
--
____________________________________________________________
http://www.braille.uwo.ca/~chriss
"Laughter is the only tenable attitude in a universe which is a joke played
upon itself"(Peter J. Carroll).
Jimmy Bruno
don't buy jazz cds for the same reason.
"David Moss" <david...@ifia.fzk.de> wrote in message
news:8asv2e$7g8$1...@hiknews1.fzk.de...
Jimmy Bruno
"Chris Smart" <ch...@uoguelph.ca> wrote in message
news:8at2k3$d93$1...@testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca...
Willie K. Yee, M.D.
ego surviving a bit of flame. Buddy probably dished out more in a night than
this NG does in a year.
Gil Ayan wrote:
> So Jimmy, ride the flame war -- it happens to everyone, sooner or later --
> and I do look forward to seeing you in L.A. next year (well, back to Anaheim
> in 2001).
--
Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.com
Remove "DONTSPAM" from return address to reply.
Chris Smart
Distribution:
Willie K. Yee, M.D. (DONTSP...@bestweb.net) wrote:
: Since Jimmy's first gig was with Buddy Rich, you don't need to worry about his
: ego surviving a bit of flame. Buddy probably dished out more in a night than
: this NG does in a year.
*LOL*
Being new to jazz I have to ask:
Was Buddy particularly known for that then?