Volume Pedal for Steel Guitar Sound
Peter Anagnostos
entirely, as I am trying to get a bit of pedal steel into my music, which is
primarily jazz. Okay. Anyway, has anyone used a volume pedal to get that
long steel pedal sound? Can it be done, or is it easier thought than done?
Peter Anagnostos
Joe Finn
on a strat with a volume pedal and the way he was bending the strings and
fading in the volume sounded [to me anyway] just like a pedal steel. He
lives in Nashville.
.....joe
--
Visit me on the web. www.JoeFinn.net
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Tom Lippincott
I use that effect all the time, and it's not that hard to do. The only thing
to be careful of is choice of volume pedal; you need one that has an even
travel, and most of them tend to go from off to almost full on in a very short
distance. From what I can recall it seems like most of the pedal steel guys
use DeArmond volume pedals, but I've never tried one. I've had varying results
with Ernie Ball volume pedals, and plain bad results with several other brands.
For the last couple of years I've been using a midi controller pedal for
volume, which isn't perfect but it's consistent. I've heard that the latest
version of the Ernie Ball pedals actually has a way to adjust the pedal travel
to make it more gradual (which is what you want for the volume swell thing), so
that may the way to go.
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
Bob Russell
> From what I can recall it seems like most of the pedal steel guys
> use DeArmond volume pedals, but I've never tried one.
There was a Goodrich volume pedal that a lot of steel guys were using; I
don't know if they're still around. I use Ernie Balls; they've worked OK for
me. Sometimes they take a bit of tweaking; I had to loosen the setscrew on
the pot shaft and rotate the shaft slightly to get mine to cut the volume
all the way off.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
A_Riot
I didn't find the EB to be that good because the travel was so long that my
foot got tired moving the pedal so much so quickly. Also, they tend to not
go completely off which ruins the whole effect, unless you tweak it, but
then you don't get full on. I found a pedal with the least travel works
best, because I want dead silence to full on very quickly. With a pedal
with alot of travel like the EB, you end up with the pedal halfway most of
the time which kills the tone. So if you can find a Goodrich, you may be
happy. The cool thing too is that they come with a good buffer so your tone
isn't wrecked from the impedance mismatch. Also, if you use a lot of
compression, that will work against you, so turn off the squish. I think I
get pretty realistic steel sounds from my tele with the Goodrich. That is,
until I sit at my steel of course :)
Happy Steelin'
P.S. Old Shobud volume pedals are good too if you can find one.
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B78E4B8B.BA70%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Bob Russell
> I play steel guitar and I always use a Goodrich flat profile volume pedal.
The steel guys I know really like 'em. Of course, they ain't cheap, either;
I think they're around $200 US, street price.
As you mentioned, they have active buffer circuitry; they need a power
supply. That might make a difference to some folks.
David C. Stephens
are well built and have shorter travel, but the new Ernie Ball (the ones
with the I/O jacks on front) is much more linear. The EB has an internal
switch that will change from the old volume contour (nothing happens for
about 1/3d of the movement, then it suddenly comes on) to a very linear
response (as soon as you start moving the pedal there's a response). With
the new EB pedal I can do subtle swells or hold the volume steady, something
I couldn't do with the old EB pedals or the Goodrich.
OTOH, Charlie Norris, our Dallas area steel guitar pusher, swears by the
Goodrich. He says you'll go through 3 EBs before you wear out your Goodrich
(which costs twice as much). I love and trust Charlie, but the EB is easier
for me to use with an archtop.
Dave
"A_Riot" <a_r...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:GL4a7.35957$Q13.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Tom Lippincott
>I tried the Goodrichs and ended up with the new Ernie Ball. The Goodrichs
>are well built and have shorter travel, but the new Ernie Ball (the ones
>with the I/O jacks on front) is much more linear. The EB has an internal
>switch that will change from the old volume contour (nothing happens for
>about 1/3d of the movement, then it suddenly comes on) to a very linear
>response (as soon as you start moving the pedal there's a response). With
>the new EB pedal I can do subtle swells or hold the volume steady, something
>I couldn't do with the old EB pedals or the Goodrich.
>
>OTOH, Charlie Norris, our Dallas area steel guitar pusher, swears by the
>Goodrich. He says you'll go through 3 EBs before you wear out your Goodrich
>(which costs twice as much). I love and trust Charlie, but the EB is easier
>for me to use with an archtop.
>
>Dave
Ah, yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. I didn't realize that pedal
steel players LIKED the short travel. I like to always have plenty of headroom
so that I rarely if ever get to "all the way up" volume level. My problem with
the shorter travel is that it's really tough to get any thing other than "off"
or "too loud" and I'm interested in that area in between. With the shorter
travel pedals I end up spending most of the time carefully trying to get the
pedal in just the right spot, and it can be a big distraction from actually
playing, and I end up with a cramp in my foot to boot. As a guitar player,
though I do sometimes use the volume pedal for "faux pedal steel" effects, I'm
probably trying to do a different thing with it in general than a typical pedal
steel player. For example, even when not doing volume swells, I often have my
foot on the pedal and make minute adjustments almost constantly while playing.
A_Riot
> foot on the pedal and make minute adjustments almost constantly while
playing.
Playing steel is much different than playing faux steel on guitar. With
steel, usually you want to keep the volume loud and steady and not be
fluctuating much for solos. If you listen to good steel players you can't
really hear the volume pedal being used its that subtle. Most steel players
like the sound of the pick attack and don't want to do swells, except in
ballads perhaps with lots of wide vibrato to get that beautiful lonesome
sound. I think the main use of the volume pedal with steel is to be able to
get more sustain out of it. As the note dies out you can boost it to keep
the sustain.
I had the same habit of riding the volume pedal while playing guitar and I
wonder how useful it is. I tend to subconsciously lower the volume on
tricky parts thinking I might make a mistake. Plus, I think it drove the
sound guy so nuts he would just take me out of the mix anyway, thereby
guaranteeing myself to be the sole recipient of said clammage...
icarusi
news:20010802174002...@ng-ca1.aol.com...
> Ah, yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. I didn't realize
that pedal
> steel players LIKED the short travel. I like to always have plenty
of headroom
> so that I rarely if ever get to "all the way up" volume level. My
problem with
> the shorter travel is that it's really tough to get any thing other
than "off"
> or "too loud" and I'm interested in that area in between. With the
shorter
> travel pedals I end up spending most of the time carefully trying to
get the
> pedal in just the right spot, and it can be a big distraction from
actually
> playing, and I end up with a cramp in my foot to boot. As a guitar
player,
> though I do sometimes use the volume pedal for "faux pedal steel"
effects, I'm
> probably trying to do a different thing with it in general than a
typical pedal
> steel player. For example, even when not doing volume swells, I
often have my
> foot on the pedal and make minute adjustments almost constantly
while playing.
I got a Bespeco (Italian Roland clone) stereo volume pedal which has a
reasonable feel. It also has an extra vol control in the side to set
the minimal volume with the pedal fully back. The mechanics are
simple, just lever actions rather than rack.
I need another stereo pedal to mix between the stereo 'outs' of a DG
Stomp and a GR33, but I haven't found one yet. I may jig something
myself from 4 LDRs and a low power LED of suitable colour+output? I
need the output from each to be 'full on' at each limit of the pedal
travel, and both 'full on' at the centre point.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
indeterminate
>
>
> I need another stereo pedal to mix between the stereo 'outs' of a DG
> Stomp and a GR33, but I haven't found one yet. I may jig something
> myself from 4 LDRs and a low power LED of suitable colour+output? I
> need the output from each to be 'full on' at each limit of the pedal
> travel, and both 'full on' at the centre point.
>
> Icarusi
> --
> remove the 00 to reply
It's tough to design stuff that works well (on a DIY basis
anyway) with leds and photoresistors, hard to get good
photoresistors with the specs you need and consistent
quality -- the exeption was the old Clairex optoisolators,
but chances of finding them now are about zero.
You can do what you want with a couple of quad op-amps, some
resistors, and a dual linear pot. If you can dig up an old
National Audio Handbook, there's a pan circuit in section 2
that shows a basic circuit you can adapt for this.
The same circuit appeared in various National linear devices
databooks, if you have access to one of those you could
probably dig around and find it.
The basic idea is pretty simple, you can see how it works
just imagining the pot alone -- left and right input and
output are the outer terminals of the pot, the wiper is
grounded. Obviously in real life you need some more stuff
to make it work well, but that's the basic idea.
Unsung96
on a strat with a volume pedal and the way he was bending the strings and
fading in the volume sounded [to me anyway] just like a pedal steel. He
lives in Nashville.
.....joe
>>
Jeff 's my bud - you just reminded me I still have his wah - wah pedal and he
probaly is thinking I'm quite the slug for not returning it. Thanks.
Joe Finn
news:20010805233042...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
Jeff is a really fine player. He and my brother both play in T. Graham
Brown's band. When you see Jeff tell him I said hello. ....joe
Unsung96
news:20010805233042...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
> << I met a guy who can do it really well. His name is Jeff Jordan. I heard
him
> on a strat with a volume pedal and the way he was bending the strings and
> fading in the volume sounded [to me anyway] just like a pedal steel. He
> lives in Nashville.
>
> .....joe
> >>
>
> Jeff 's my bud - you just reminded me I still have his wah - wah pedal and
he
> probaly is thinking I'm quite the slug for not returning it. Thanks.
Jeff is a really fine player. He and my brother both play in T. Graham
Brown's band. When you see Jeff tell him I said hello. ....joe >>
John Leo???? I've subbed for Jeff on occasion in T's band & Leo has actually
subbed in my fuzak band.
Small world.
Joe Finn
> John Leo???? I've subbed for Jeff on occasion in T's band & Leo has
actually
> subbed in my fuzak band.
> Small world.
That's him. In our family he has always been known as John but T. is fond of
calling him Leo.
Yes, it's a small world. The further you go the smaller it gets.
icarusi
> You can do what you want with a couple of quad op-amps, some
> resistors, and a dual linear pot. If you can dig up an old
> National Audio Handbook, there's a pan circuit in section 2
> that shows a basic circuit you can adapt for this.
I notice there are dedicated chips to control stereo volume, balance
and tone with low noise specs, so a couple of those would be an
alternative, with the possibilty of using the other functions too.
Just that the LDR route doesn't require mechanical connection to the
pots, which tends to be the common failure point in most pivot action
pedals.