Brazilian Jazz
NuBossa
Anyone else interested in discussing bossa nova, samba, and mpb, especially
from a guitar playing standpoint? I'm still working on getting the rhythms
down with my right hand. Da Da Dada / Da Da Dada Love the way the nylon
string guitar is the central instrument in Brazilian jazz. I like the playing
of Oscar Castro Neves as well as Joao Bosco, Joao Gilberto and many others.
Any ideas, comments, thoughts, advice, etc? Anyone from the nyc area play
this music and want to jam?
Gary Chvatal
nub...@aol.com (NuBossa) wrote:
>Anyone else interested in discussing bossa nova, samba, and mpb, especially
>from a guitar playing standpoint? <<
I have really gotten to love this music over the last few years. I've
been immersing myself in it....been listening to a lot of Jobim
especially.
I'm a blues/rock hacker who never really learned to play well but now
(in my mid 40's) I'm back in lessons trying to lear what I missed over
the past 25 years. While I'm trying to get the rhythms close my major
challenges have been learning the chords. Just grabbing the 7b9s and
other "jazz" chords in a tempo that sounds like a song have been my
goal for the past year or so.
I've worked on Wave, Blue Bossa, Girl from Ipanema, and Once I Loved
to the point where they are more or less presentable. Just started on
Black Orpheus.
I feel like I learn so slow.....
>I'm still working on getting the rhythms
>down with my right hand. Da Da Dada / Da Da Dada Love the way the nylon
>string guitar is the central instrument in Brazilian jazz.
I also love the sound of the nylon string guitars and have tried them
but cannot handle the neck width. Been sticking with my Gibson and
Epip[hone archtops. Not as interested in an authentic tone right now.
I would settle for an authntic feel.
>Any ideas, comments, thoughts, advice, etc? Anyone from the nyc area play
>this music and want to jam?
Man I would love to find someone to jam with but I'm in Ohio. Most of
the people I know don't even know about this music. I do have one
buddy that I play with. He frustrates me 'cause I work on a tune for
a month then I show him the changes. He immediaely picks it up and
usually within a few days he sends me a 4-track tape of his version of
the song. Thats usually about the time I have gotten the feel for
playing the melody and MAYBE figured out which scales/positions I
could use for some primitive improv....
Maybe you have some advice for me? Anyway I listen to so much Jobim,
Astrud Gilberto, and Eliane Elias that my family is getting sick of
it. So I've got a treat for them. I just picked up a copy of
Cannonball Adderly's "Mercy Mercy Mercy". ;-)
gary
---------
Gary Chvatal
remove xyz to respond via e-mail
NuBossa
Very scary post...i feel like i'm looking into a mirror! Our paths, ages,
musical taste (including Jobim, Astrud and Mercy, Mercy Mercy) are almost
identical. I also drive my poor wife crazy with this stuff. Maybe our wives
should start a support group. (Braz-jaz Anon or something like that.)
I've got a whole bunch of Jobim tunes that i can almost play (okay some i can
play) including One Note Samba, How Insensitve (did you know Jobim got the
idea for this tune from a Chopin piece?), Waters of March, Corcovado, Wave,
Girl from Ip, Meditation, etc.
For practice and learning, i picked up a book/cd set by Nelson Faria "The
Brazilian Guiar Book" published by Sher. Excellent book! It's got chapters
on Samba, bossa nova and other styles with common chord progressions, lots of
beautiful open chord voicing, re-harmonizations, and most importantly, comping
patterns and how to play them with the right hand. (You probably know this
already, but in Brazilian music, the thumb always play the bass note on the
beat and the 1,2,3 fingers play the rest of the chord on the syncopation.)
Another good tool is the Jamey Abersold "Bossa Nova" book and cd. the cd
contains only a rhythm section, you play the head and solo. It's got a bucn of
Jobim tunes and another fav. of mine (and I'd guess your's too) -- Summer
Samba, aka So Nice.
If you ever decide to check out a nylon, I have a LaPatrie. It's a Canadian
made axe, beautiful, all wood, cedar top, and the neck is slightly thinner than
a traditional classical. And the price was right, too (under $300).
Let's keep in touch!
Tom
roo7flat5
NuBossa wrote in message
<199805162213...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
There's a couple of early 80's Sarah Vaughn albums on Pablo( I Love Brazil
and Copacabana) featuring Brazilian musos., among them the electric
guitarist Helio Delmiro. Perhaps our well-informed Bossa boffins could tell
us if there is an 'electric' Brazilian style and whether HD or others have
recordings in this vein. We Anglos don't seem to hear of too many from this
neck of the woods apart from mostly classical players.
On a more obscure note, a few years ago I saw a TV segment of the
Montreux Jazz Festival which featured an electric Brazilian syle band. An
electric mandolinist blazed through a tune,'Rio Nights', in a guitaristic
lyrical neo-Django style.I think they went under the name 'Luis Caldas'.....
anyone know anything of them?
Rich Lague
Dear Tom,
Did you learn One Note Samba out of the Nelson Faria book? I keep
trying to get that comping pattern down but I find it very difficult. I
think Nelson Faria's book is a great tool for learning Brazilian guitar.
On the other hand, I thought Jamey Abersold "Bossa Nova" book and cd were
not very helpful. They just don't play the clave right-- it sounds like
american jazz and just doesn't have the strong 2/4 feeling I love in
brazilian music.
I think there are a lot of us middle aged guitarist learning Brazilian
guitar scattered around the country. I wish someone would produce a good
book/CD combo on the techniques of Baden Powell!
Rich in Oregon
In article <199805162213...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
nub...@aol.com (NuBossa) wrote:
> Very scary post...i feel like i'm looking into a mirror! Our paths, ages,
> musical taste (including Jobim, Astrud and Mercy, Mercy Mercy) are almost
> identical. I also drive my poor wife crazy with this stuff.
> For practice and learning, i picked up a book/cd set by Nelson Faria "The
> Brazilian Guiar Book" published by Sher. Excellent book! It's got chapters
> on Samba, bossa nova and other styles with common chord progressions, lots of
> beautiful open chord voicing, re-harmonizations, and most importantly, comping
> patterns and how to play them with the right hand. (You probably know this
> already, but in Brazilian music, the thumb always play the bass note on the
> beat and the 1,2,3 fingers play the rest of the chord on the syncopation.)
>
> Tom
Don & Nan Mitchell
Emily Remler had a very thorough segment on Bossa comping rhythmic pattern
in one of her videos (sorry, I can't remember which one), and Howard Morgen
in his "Concepts" book has a more comprehensive section on Bossa, with some
terrific exercises and hints on how to get that wonderful seperation of time
and voices when playing solo guitar. Great full arrangements of tunes, as
well.
Don
Portland, OR
Rich Lague wrote in message ...
Warren Sirota
Hi,
I play a lot of Brazilian music. Sometimes I take out my nylon-string
guitar to gigs, but I never have liked the way it sounds amplified (I
may get a Godin or one of those other "semi-hollow" nylon strings one of
these days). I only play it if there's a PA to go through and the band
isn't too loud.
Last year I was playing in a band that had a female singer that
phonetically transcribed a lot of the song from the portuguese... we
played lotsa bossa, and I did nylon guitar on most of it.
As far as electric Brazilian jazz goes - I was in Brazil a decade ago
for a jazz festival in Rio, and I saw a lot (certainly not all) of the
local jazz groups aspiring towards a 70-ish fusion kind of sound. That
was kind of disappointing. But not Hermeto Pascoal's delirious 4-hour
performance or the amazing acoustic sounds of the all-string (plus
minimal percussion) Orquestra de Cordas Dedilhadas de Pernambuco.
I just got to perform a hot version of Joao Bosco's "Flerte" in my new
Latin dance band (I daresay the only one in Southern Oregon), Pachanga!
That was really fun - all the chords in this interlude anticipate the
beat by an eighth note.
I really like not just the bossa nova, but also the sweet sounds of the
older choro. I saw Mike Marshall's choro group perform about a year and
a half ago and was knocked out.
As for post-bossa, I presume all the guitarists here know about Egberto
Gismonti?
--
Yours truly,
Warren Sirota
World Wide Woodshed
http://www.worldwidewoodshed.com/
NuBossa
Hello Rich,
<< Did you learn One Note Samba out of the Nelson Faria book? I keep trying to
get that comping pattern down but I find it very difficult.>> I use his
voicing (he's got such great open chord voicings throughout the book) but no,
i don't use his rhythm either (frankly i'm not that crazy about how it sounds
on that piece).
<<I think Nelson Faria's book is a great tool for learning Brazilian guitar.
On the other hand, I thought Jamey Abersold "Bossa Nova" book and cd were not
very helpful. They just don't play the clave right-- it sounds like american
jazz and just doesn't have the strong 2/4 feeling I love in brazilian music.>>
Agreed on both counts. Nelson's book is authentic, whereas Abersold's is
american jazz. But that's okay by me since so many jazz musicians play these
bossa tunes and it's more likely that I play with jazz players than authentic
Brazilian players. Jazz players do their own thing with these tunes and it's
great in it's own way. But i much prefer the comping style of a Joao Gilberto!
Yes, i think there are quite a lot of us old guitar players who are
rediscovering music through bossa nova and samba. As for Baden Powell, I have
one of his LP's but I need to listen more. Have you ever heard Carlos Barbosa
Lima? I've got an LP of him playing all Jobim on one side of Gershwin. Wow!
when he plays Desafinado (solo classical guitar) it sounds like and entire
orchestra. Unreal.
Tom Walls
In article <355F88C4...@worldwidewoodshed.com>, Warren Sirota
<wsi...@worldwidewoodshed.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I play a lot of Brazilian music. Sometimes I take out my nylon-string
>guitar to gigs, but I never have liked the way it sounds amplified (I
>may get a Godin or one of those other "semi-hollow" nylon strings one of
>these days). I only play it if there's a PA to go through and the band
>isn't too loud.
I've been happy with the sound I get from my Gallien-Kreuger 280(?)
acoustic guitar amp.
>I really like not just the bossa nova, but also the sweet sounds of the
>older choro. I saw Mike Marshall's choro group perform about a year and
>a half ago and was knocked out.
>
I'll have to check him out.
>As for post-bossa, I presume all the guitarists here know about Egberto
>Gismonti?
I really dig Egberto, but I have to admit that sometimes he loses me.
Recently I've enjoyed listening to Romero Lubambo(Tom Harrell, Trio da
Paz).
--
Tom Walls
the guy at Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/index.html
Gary Chvatal
nub...@aol.com (NuBossa) wrote:
>Very scary post...i feel like i'm looking into a mirror! Our paths, ages,
>musical taste (including Jobim, Astrud and Mercy, Mercy Mercy) are almost
>identical. I also drive my poor wife crazy with this stuff. Maybe our wives
>should start a support group. (Braz-jaz Anon or something like that.)
LOL...Jan laughed when I told her about your response. She actually
likes the Brazilian stuff especially Jobim and Astrud Gilberto. I just
went to Harmony Central to find Mercy mercy... I think I'm going to
try to get my kids to work up a few arrangements in a summer jazz band
project.
>For practice and learning, i picked up a book/cd set by Nelson Faria "The
>Brazilian Guiar Book" published by Sher. Excellent book!
I'll look for the Faria book....I've already got the Aebersold.
>If you ever decide to check out a nylon, I have a LaPatrie. It's a Canadian
>made axe, beautiful, all wood, cedar top, and the neck is slightly thinner than
>a traditional classical. And the price was right, too (under $300).
I've never checked out the La Patries....maybe I'll give 'em a look
see....
>Let's keep in touch!
Yup....
btw....in light of sinatra's passing I should ask...have you ever
heard his Jobim covers? he did four or five on one of his older
recordings. Actually quite nice and not overbearing at all. Almost
sensitive. He did How Insensitive, Wave, and a couple others...
Gary Chvatal
nub...@aol.com (NuBossa) wrote:
>t's more likely that I play with jazz players than authentic
>Brazilian players. Jazz players do their own thing with these tunes and it's
>great in it's own way.
I agree with that and of course my original introduction to this music
was by way of Stan Getz. But its great to hear the originals. That
was the same path to the blues....first heard bad covers by some rock
players during the 60's and now am familiar with much more authentic
and raw and enjoyable recordings....
I also agree with the potential of playing with other americans.
Actually I am teaching some of these tunes to my rock & roll buddies.
Talk about some convoluted comping :-)
I did see the Emily Remler video once but when I saw it a few years
ago I was no where ready for it. Maybe I'll give it another look now.
KONRAD
Hi.....you don't give up..........do you?
I'm happy there's some any others "jerks" about the same music I adore.
We'll keep in touch......
Konrad
NuBossa ha scritto nel messaggio
<199805121227...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>Anyone else interested in discussing bossa nova, samba, and mpb, especially
>from a guitar playing standpoint? I'm still working on getting the rhythms
>down with my right hand. Da Da Dada / Da Da Dada Love the way the nylon
>string guitar is the central instrument in Brazilian jazz. I like the
playing
>of Oscar Castro Neves as well as Joao Bosco, Joao Gilberto and many others.
NuBossa
As received from g...@fund.cepel.br..
<<Subj: Re: Brazilian Jazz
Date: 98-05-19 08:23:56 EDT
From: g...@fund.cepel.br
To: nub...@aol.com (NuBossa)
Hello. I've been reading this thread and wanted to participate, but my
news provider only lets me read (I can't post) so if you could do me a
favour and forward my message to the NG...
I'm brazilian, 29 years old. Play the guitar since eleven. Of course I
listen to bossa nova since inside my mother's womb.
Besides the players you mention (Joa Gilberto, Joao Bosco, Nelson
Faria - with Ivan Lins, Baden Powell, HERMETO PASCHOAL - he's awesome,
Egberto Gismonti) I would like to suggest some listening:
Djavan, Toquinho, Paulinho Nogueira, Sebastiao Tapajos, Marisa Monte,
Gilberto Gil
And also some other styles besides samba and bossa-nova, like choro,
baiao, forro, frevo and sertanejo.
Choro is a form of music with a lot of improvising. It's usually
played by a group called "regional": guitar, 7-string guitar (plays
sycopated walking-like bass lines), cavaquinho (like a ukelele),
madolin (soloist), flute or clarinet (soloist) and tambourine. It's
from Rio de Janeiro, same place where bossa nova was born.
Recommended:
Raphael Rabello, Jacob do Bandolim, Waldir Azevedo, Altamiro Carrilho,
Armandinho
I HIGHLY recommend Raphael Rabello. He was probably the best player to
pluck nylon strings ever.
Baiao and forro are from the northeast of Brazil, and have mixolidian
and mixolidian/#4 melodies. They are traditionally played with
accordion, tambourine and zabumba (kind of bass drum) but modern
groups use guitars, drums and bass also. By the way, the name forro
comes from 'for all'. The English engineers that worked in the first
train lines in NE of Brazil called 'for all' the dance parties for the
working men (brazilian) where this kind of music was played.
Recommended:
Luis Gonzaga, Jackson do Pandeiro, Dominguinhos
Frevo is also from the Northeast of Brazil. Traditional Frevo is a
very fast music with complicated harmonies and difficult melodies
played by something like a big band. The Electric Frevo is played by a
group named 'Trio Eletrico' - 'guitarras bahianas', bass and drums.
'Guitarra Bahiana' is the electric mandolin someone in the thread
mentioned. It is solid bodied and has single strings instead of
double. It's played with distortion (fuzz). It was invented back in
the 30's. Yes someone built a solid guitar in Brazil in the 30's and
there are photos and records showing this.
Recommended:
Capiba (traditional), Trio Eletrico Dodo e Osmar, Armandinho, Moraes
Moreira, Pepeu Gomes
There was a group in the 80's called 'A Cor do Som' (colour of sound)
that played baiao, forro, frevo, choro in an electric format (drums,
bass, moog, Rhodes and 'guitarra bahiana'). The Montreaux album is a
must. Armandinho was the guitarrist. He's probably the best brazilian
electric guitarrist and mandolinist today - his style is unique and
100% brazilian.
Sertanejo is like brazilian's country music, and there is a lot of bad
music, but some nice things. The main instruments are the guitar and
the 'viola caipira' (country guitar) - a guitar with a small body and
10 steel strings played in open tunings. There are usually two singers
('dupla' - duo) who sing in 3rds. Very simple harmonies but some
beautiful melodies, and the 'viola caipira' has a unique sound.
Recommended:
Almir Sater, renato Andrade, Helena Meirelles
There was also a brazilian guitar quartet called 'D'alma' (from the
soul) who 'inspired' the Lucia/McLaughlin/DiMeola project.Very nice.
If any of you want some information about different styles, beats,
chords, lyrics, sound samples, mail me and and will try to help you.
Guilherme (it's portuguese for William).>>
Geez, just when I thought I was beginning to know something about this music,
you come along and open the doors to several new universes! I'm real curious
about the music and artists you mention, and want to check out this stuff.
Thanks for you input, and I'm always glad to post your comment to the board.
Stay with us, Guilherme! Please, tell me you live in NY???
Tom Walls
Thanks for the enlightening post.
Jose Paulo Xavier Pires
NuBossa wrote:
>
> As received from g...@fund.cepel.br..
>
> <<Subj: Re: Brazilian Jazz
> Date: 98-05-19 08:23:56 EDT
> From: g...@fund.cepel.br
> To: nub...@aol.com (NuBossa)
>
> Hello. I've been reading this thread and wanted to participate, but my
> news provider only lets me read (I can't post) so if you could do me a
> favour and forward my message to the NG...
>
> I'm brazilian, 29 years old. Play the guitar since eleven. Of course I
> listen to bossa nova since inside my mother's womb.
>
> Besides the players you mention (Joa Gilberto, Joao Bosco, Nelson
> Faria - with Ivan Lins, Baden Powell, HERMETO PASCHOAL - he's awesome,
> Egberto Gismonti) I would like to suggest some listening:
>
> Djavan, Toquinho, Paulinho Nogueira, Sebastiao Tapajos, Marisa Monte,
> Gilberto Gil
>
Great post, Guilherme. Congratulations for your good summary.
I'm brazilian too and I would like to add in your list Toninho Horta,
who is an amazing guitar player.
Pat Metheny uses to refer Toninho as "the Herbie Hancock of the
Bossa Nova".
Um grande abraco,
J.Paulo
Gerry Scott-Moore
In article <357309...@hp.com>, Jose Paulo Xavier Pires
<jpaulo...@hp.com> wrote:
>> Besides the players you mention (Joa Gilberto, Joao Bosco, Nelson
>> Faria - with Ivan Lins, Baden Powell, HERMETO PASCHOAL - he's awesome,
>> Egberto Gismonti) I would like to suggest some listening:
>>
>> Djavan, Toquinho, Paulinho Nogueira, Sebastiao Tapajos, Marisa Monte,
>> Gilberto Gil
>>
>
>Great post, Guilherme. Congratulations for your good summary.
>I'm brazilian too and I would like to add in your list Toninho Horta,
>who is an amazing guitar player.
>Pat Metheny uses to refer Toninho as "the Herbie Hancock of the
>Bossa Nova".
Can't believe no one named Raphael Rabello...
\\\--- Gerry
---------------------------------------------------
Plants and animals disappear to make room for your fat ass.
Jose Paulo Xavier Pires
Gerry Scott-Moore wrote:
> >> Besides the players you mention (Joa Gilberto, Joao Bosco, Nelson
> >> Faria - with Ivan Lins, Baden Powell, HERMETO PASCHOAL - he's awesome,
> >> Egberto Gismonti) I would like to suggest some listening:
> >>
> >> Djavan, Toquinho, Paulinho Nogueira, Sebastiao Tapajos, Marisa Monte,
> >> Gilberto Gil
> >>
> >
> >Great post, Guilherme. Congratulations for your good summary.
> >I'm brazilian too and I would like to add in your list Toninho Horta,
> >who is an amazing guitar player.
> >Pat Metheny uses to refer Toninho as "the Herbie Hancock of the
> >Bossa Nova".
>
> Can't believe no one named Raphael Rabello...
You are very right, Gerry. How could we forget Raphael ?
BTW, we should mention here too: Luiz Bonfa', Marcos Pereira,
Oscar Castro Neves, Guinga, etc...
LizardBill
I am in a very small town in northern British
Columbia, Canada. Thanks for posting those
artists, I will be cruising the CD racks for sure
the next time I get down to Vancouver. As you
can imagine, the Bossa Nova is rarely heard
in these parts.
NuBossa
You must live in a very beautiful place. Believe it or not, I'm from NY and
unfortunately, bossa nova is not heard too much here, either. If you don't
want to wait until you make the pilgrimage to Vancouver, have you ever ordered
from the online services: Tower, Music Boulevard, Caravan, etc.? They have
some good selections and deliver it right to your door!
<<Oscar Castro Neves>> One of the founding fathers of bossa nova, I belive,
this man is EVERYWHERE! I really like his playing, and he has some nice tunes
on the Toot's Brazil Project cds.