Weber 10" speakers?
Jack A. Zucker
2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
of 10" speakers that are not too heavy (no JBL or EV) but have some
robustness to their tone.
I'm currently "sitting" on an Allen modded Princeton reverb that has a
Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
but without the high end spike...
One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.
Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...It's a
tough balancing act.
Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
Jaz
Skip Moy
gig you are doing ? Seems like a big tonal difference between the EV and
Webers. Are you playing all these styles on the same gig ?
Skip
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:2f33c43f.0308...@posting.google.com...
Richard
> Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
I was very satisfied with a pair of doped C10NQs I had in a Vibrolux
Reverb.
--
"Leave the donkeys to their thistles." -- old Persian saying
Pt
Great sounding.
Pt
Jack A. Zucker
> Would separate heads and speakers allow you to tailor the spk to the type of
> gig you are doing ? Seems like a big tonal difference between the EV and
> Webers. Are you playing all these styles on the same gig ?
> Skip
Yes, I do a disparate array of styles on gigs from clean Martino like
lines to bluesy SRV type things to smooth, Allen Holdsworth type of
distortion.
A separate cab is probably the best bet for a longer term solution but
right now the combo is what I have to work with...
Jack A. Zucker
> j...@jackzucker.com wrote...
>
> > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
>
> I was very satisfied with a pair of doped C10NQs I had in a Vibrolux
> Reverb.
Tell me more. Were these reissues?
Richard
> Richard <rh...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >
> > > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
> >
> > I was very satisfied with a pair of doped C10NQs I had in a Vibrolux
> > Reverb.
>
> Tell me more. Were these reissues?
My bad. They were new Webers, nicely broken in with about 60 hours
each on a signal generator. Best sound I ever had. (So far. :)
Daniel Decamillis
While the speaker is very efficient and certainly is an improvement to both
amps, I am not really blown away by them. Personally, the amps sound more
vintagy (50's not 60's) and bluesy (like older amps designed for harp
playing like the Supro), which is not a sound I am after. I play a tele
copy.
I think expensive speakers CAN make a difference, but I am very tired of the
bull-speak regarding top of the line speakers..... I am always looking for
less expensive replacements.
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:2f33c43f.0308...@posting.google.com...
Margaret Wilson
I have one of these (undoped) in my SF Princeton Reverb. I originally had a
C10Q but felt it was too shrill without enough bottom end. I was afraid the
C10N would be too dark, so I ordered the C10NQ. It has much more "oomph" to
it. More mid and bass, never flabby, and it can get some high-end sparkle
without being shrill at all. I only play at home, so I can't comment on
high-volume applications, but having owned several Webers, I'd say the C10NQ
is my favorite. (You may also have heard of it as the C10NT.) Weber's new
naming scheme for this speaker is the 10F150T. (C10Q = 10F125, C10N =
10F150).
I just looked up the speaker designation on the Weber site, and what they
say about the 10F150T is misleading, calling it a replacement for the Jensen
C10Q. Talk to Ted for more info, because I think they've goofed on some of
their speaker descriptions....
Regards,
Margaret
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:2f33c43f.0308...@posting.google.com...
Pat Smith
than Jensens and cost a fortune
Jack A. Zucker
references to the old Jensen nomenclature?
"Margaret Wilson" <twok...@nospam.msn.com> wrote in message
news:big87...@enews1.newsguy.com...
paul
<j...@jackzucker.com> wrote:
>I'm still confused. I have no idea what Q cone or N magnet is. Are these
>references to the old Jensen nomenclature?
>
it's BNF notation.
--paul
Jack A. Zucker
"paul" <pcsa...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3f4bd1a5....@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Doug Allen
8 ohm full range speaker, rated at 150 watts, that will reproduce the
low E string's fundamental (rare for a 10). I prefer it more than the
higher rated (and priced) EVM-10. I've tried several 10's, from vintage
thru JBL, but always return to the EV Force. It's clean enough for jazz,
even at upper volume levels, and has a pleasant crunch when pushed into
break-up. Despite being a budget priced speaker, the sound is premium.
icarusi
news:2f33c43f.0308...@posting.google.com...
> One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
> disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good
for
> all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through
most
> of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even
the
> reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.
> Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
> don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...It's a
> tough balancing act.
>
> Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
Have you considered mixing 2 makes/models of speakers in a stereo amp
cab with a means of distributing the volume seperately to each
speaker? I'm using a Behringer GX210 where the 'slave in' sockets are
actually insert points between the pre and power amp. The tape-out
socket levels are set by the master vol, so I put a stereo pot in that
point so I can increase the level to tape and pot-down the actual
output level. If the stereo pot was 2 singles I could vary the level
to each speaker independently.
Incidentally Vox have produced a separate box to the Valvetronics amps
which IIRC includes their 'reactor' which is a small valve and
transformer configured as a push-pull output stage.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Jack A. Zucker
find a pair?
--
web: www.jackzucker.com
"Doug Allen" <imlo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9749-3F4...@storefull-2178.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Jack A. Zucker
Can you map the C10NQ speakers to those that he's offering now?
--
web: www.jackzucker.com
"Richard" <rh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19b559d47...@news.verizon.net...
Margaret Wilson
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:YKP2b.18727$2Y6.5...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
Margaret Wilson
You might also want to actually *read* that post. You might find some other
good info. :-)
Margaret
"Margaret Wilson" <twok...@nospam.msn.com> wrote in message
news:biguo...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> Jack, I did that for you three hours ago in a message two which you even
> responded. Please read: 10F150T.
>
> Margaret
>
> "Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
> news:KPS2b.7980$Nc.52...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Margaret Wilson
responded. Please read: 10F150T.
Margaret
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:KPS2b.7980$Nc.52...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Tony Hwang
Now we're moving to speakers from amps.
Would anyone like to guess what's up next after speakers?
Tony
Jack A. Zucker
to his "state" names and keying in the numbers into his "conversion" chart
page yields "not found" for the several combinations I tried. He said he is
working on a new chart. I wish he'd redo his webpage. His products are
fabulous but in my opinion the website detracts from the products and makes
it more difficult to find speakers by number.
"Margaret Wilson" <twok...@nospam.msn.com> wrote in message
news:bigv6...@enews3.newsguy.com...
Richard
> Can you map the C10NQ speakers to those that he's offering now?
I've tried a few times to figure out his new scheme, and gave up.
Easiest thing to do is just email Ted. I'll take another look at it
if doing it Friday is OK. (Still up to my eyeballs in alligators re:
work.)
Also: The ones I had were paper cones (not that I recall this was an
option).
How's Margaret's answer? That's probably correct.
Ylo
> I just picked up a Vibroclone amp. It's a bandmaster reverb in a repro
> 2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
> of 10" speakers
I put a pair of Weber C10N (don't know the new model no.) into my
Princeton Chorus home practice amp. At first they were a bit bright,
but after a couple of weeks they mellowed and now they sound great.
This wasn't my ears, I actually measured the speakers. They really do
break in. For $75 each they sure beat the Fender "Special Design"
crap speakers that came with the amp. The stock speakers had a 15 dB
peak at around 2.5 kHz that really sounded bizarre, kind of like a
cocked wah pedal, and not my "thing" at all.
You can't go wrong with the Webers for the price. All you have to do
is figure out whether you want straight cone, ribbed, doped, etc.
Chris Taylor
Boston
PCollen
> Hi,
> Now we're moving to speakers from amps.
> Would anyone like to guess what's up next after speakers?
> Tony
LOL, Tony. I've followed this thread through and quite frankly am
expecting
Jack to move on to cables, jacks, and plugs next.......
Speaking of plugs, Margaret seems a little miffed a Jack for not
reading her info-post, don't you think ?
PCollen
> 2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
> of 10" speakers that are not too heavy (no JBL or EV) but have some
> robustness to their tone.
What is in the amp right now, Jack ? Is the ONLY issue weight ?
> I'm currently "sitting" on an Allen modded Princeton reverb that has a
> Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
> the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
> though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
> sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
> versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
> heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
> but without the high end spike...
If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
out.
> One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
> disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
> all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
> of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
> reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.
I don't agree...
> Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
> don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...
Again, I don't agree....
It's a
> tough balancing act.
If you are trying to make a single amp work for both applications,
then your balancing act is even tougher.....
> Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
>
> Jaz
My take on 10" speakers is to replace them with 12's if cabinet
real-estate allows. Best Super Reverb I ever heard had two JBL 12's
in it.
Richard
> > I'm currently "sitting" on an Allen modded Princeton reverb that has a
> > Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
> > the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
> > though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
> > sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
> > versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
> > heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
> > but without the high end spike...
>
> If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
> out.
And if a frog had wings, it'd fly.
EQ'ing the amp on the board helps the audience sitting a few rows
back. How's it help the people listening to the amp on stage, and
the audience directly in front of the amp? You'd really suggest all
those folks should put with overbearing high end out of an amp rather
than simply swap the speaker?
I think your desire to bust Jack's chops is clouding your judgement.
That said, I have to say that I've had a great "fusion" sound out of
Jensen speakers. But that was when Jensens were in Twin Reverbs, set
no higher than 4, and I used a good distortion pedal (a Burn Unit).
The Jensens I've used in lower power amps don't sound real "fusiony"
when pushed into breakup, IMO, althought it's a classic rock sound.
Jack A. Zucker
> Princeton Chorus home practice amp. At first they were a bit bright,
> but after a couple of weeks they mellowed and now they sound great.
> This wasn't my ears, I actually measured the speakers. They really do
> break in. For $75 each they sure beat the Fender "Special Design"
> crap speakers that came with the amp. The stock speakers had a 15 dB
> peak at around 2.5 kHz that really sounded bizarre, kind of like a
> cocked wah pedal, and not my "thing" at all.
Great description and I agree 100%.
> You can't go wrong with the Webers for the price. All you have to do
> is figure out whether you want straight cone, ribbed, doped, etc.
Yeah - Too many choices - Plus, apparently he's changed the model #s
from the Jensen style number (of which I have no knowledge) to the
"state" nomenclature. He's got a little javascript applet on one of
his pages which is supposed to translate the old model #s to the new
ones but I tried keying in a few models that folks were listing from
this thread and it couldn't translate them.
All I know is that the Weber 12" California speaker (paper dome)
sounds VERY good and VERY fendery for clean and for semi-dirty
playing. It's got too much high-end content for fusiony leads though
but it's perfect for that Gatton/Buchanan type of thing.
Maybe the thing to do would be to put a pair of California 10s in the
combo cab and get a 2x12 cab for the more fusiony stuff. As several
folks have pointed out, I could mix 2 different speakers but I'm
probably better off optimizing.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
MICHAEL BLOOMER
ceramic. I did this in my Super Reverb and it works well. I put Eminence
Legend 1028Ks in the top and Mojo Black Beauty 10"s in the bottom. Neither
of these speakers is great on their own but together they compliment each
other nicely.
Tubegurunews:2f33c43f.0308...@posting.google.com...
> I just picked up a Vibroclone amp. It's a bandmaster reverb in a repro
> 2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
> of 10" speakers that are not too heavy (no JBL or EV) but have some
> robustness to their tone.
>
> Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
> the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
> though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
> sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
> versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
> heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
> but without the high end spike...
>
> disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
> all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
> of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
> reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.
> tough balancing act.
>
lbrt...@aol.com
> Now we're moving to speakers from amps.
> Would anyone like to guess what's up next after speakers?
Yes - L-pads and spkr wire. :-) Then beam blockers & maybe condoms.
Kerry Maxwell
> I'm still confused. I have no idea what Q cone or N magnet is. Are
these
> references to the old Jensen nomenclature?
>
I'm with you. I find the Weber site totally bewildering for basic
*real-world* answers to the question "which speaker do I want?". It
comes off as "By speaker geeks-For speaker geeks" to me. Not to say I
wouldn't love a pair for my Rivera Quiana. I know, I know - "call Ted".
Kerry M
Jack A. Zucker
> What is in the amp right now, Jack ? Is the ONLY issue weight ?
Well (sheepishly), I have not receieved the amp yet. It has Weber
Texas speakers in it which the website says were designed for early
breakup which is not really my cup of tea but I'll certainly live with
them for a few weeks to get a feel for them. I believe they use the
same magnet as the Californias.
> If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
> out.
Unfortunately, I'm not in the position to do that at this point.
> > One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
> > disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
> > all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
> > of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
> > reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.
>
> I don't agree...
Maybe I've never played through a good set then. Most of the Jensens
that are still around seem to have one foot in the grave. Enough folks
have raved about the C10NQ that I may give those a try but the Cali 12
sounds awfully good. It just doesn't have a good fusion tone but all
it's other sounds are so good it's hard to beat.
> > Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
> > don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...
>
> Again, I don't agree....
It's a moot point 'cuz I'm not going to put 10" EV or JBL speakers in
the amp! :-) Regarding 12" speakers, the recent EV 12L speakers have a
nasty midrange spike that negatively colors the tone. The best EVs
were the Rivera OEM'd ones called Fender 12F and Fender 10F.
> It's a
> > tough balancing act.
>
> If you are trying to make a single amp work for both applications,
> then your balancing act is even tougher.....
You're right. Best bet is probably going with Cali 10s and putting
something else in an extension cab.
> > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
> >
> > Jaz
>
> My take on 10" speakers is to replace them with 12's if cabinet
> real-estate allows. Best Super Reverb I ever heard had two JBL 12's
> in it.
I like 10s though. They have a nastyness to them that the 12" speakers
can't get.
Jonathan Giblin
replacement speakers leads me to believe that combining different speakers
may be the way to go. I'm not pushing any particular model, but maybe a
Weber and a Jenson would sound good together in a cabinet.
I've got an amp with a Celetion 12 that I use with an extension cabinet
containing two CA 10s. I get a sound out of that setup that, to my ears,
beats either cabinet by itself. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with
mixing and matching speakers, and I don't know if there are any particularly
useful guidelines for this stuff. But different speakers used together do
seem to yeild a more complex and rich sound, at least in some cases.
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:2f33c43f.03082...@posting.google.com...
Gtski
"PCollen" <pco...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7c061413.03082...@posting.google.com...
Then you never heard a REAL good SR.... the 4-10s rule..! ! ! :-)
gtski
Gtski
Yep. and they will allow for more 'cut' and 'slice'... IMMHO....
In a "duel" of 2-12s vs 4-10s.... it's an un-even fight... the
4-10s will dominate...
I'd even pick 4-10s over 4-12s in a "live-gig-cut-the-mix" duel....
gtski
David and/or Rena Covell
"Jonathan Giblin" <Jon-Hol...@access4cheap.com> wrote in
message news:bio7n...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> I'm no expert on this stuff, but the little bit of experience
I've had with
> replacement speakers leads me to believe that combining
different speakers
> may be the way to go. I'm not pushing any particular model,
but maybe a
> Weber and a Jenson would sound good together in a cabinet.
>
> I've got an amp with a Celetion 12 that I use with an
extension cabinet
> containing two CA 10s. I get a sound out of that setup that,
to my ears,
> beats either cabinet by itself. I haven't done a lot of
experimenting with
> mixing and matching speakers, and I don't know if there are
any particularly
> useful guidelines for this stuff. But different speakers used
together do
> seem to yeild a more complex and rich sound, at least in some
cases.
Agreed. My Bluesmaster has a 12 and a 10, and it has more oomph
than any 2x6L6 open-back combo I've ever heard. Part of it is
due to the circuit and output tranny, but that speaker
combination sounds nearly as good and strong when driven by
other amps. Two different resonant frequencies can fatten tone
considerably. No doubt there's some bizarre interaction
happening on the baffle, and the frequency response is even less
linear than a typical guitar amp, but nonlinearity is what gives
an amp its character. I'm hooked; my next amp might have a 12
and 2 mismatched 10's: maybe a C12N for oomph, a Celestion 10
for fatter mids, and a C10Q for sparkle.
lbrt...@aol.com
> Then you never heard a REAL good SR.... the 4-10s rule..! ! ! :-)
I found that true, too. Interestingly a few BF & SF SR's came with
alnicos as well - not something I usually prefer but they sure worked
great for that 4/10 thing. It did seem that the feedback qualities of
the 335 was balanced nicely by the added compression of the alnicos.
Disclaimer: most of my thing with the SR was with a no-effects 335
doing hard-crank rock & kick-ass boogie (late '60's) in medium-sized
clubs, up on a chair and wide open. There is something about the
cripsness and immediacy of multiple tens that is hard to put into
words, and that can make some amps sound twice as loud and cutting as
they are. Remember that these were times of ridiculous stage volume
levels and nothing miked except the Leslies - and that the SR is only
about a 40+w amp. I also found that the 2/10 BFVR (many years of
gigging) was similar this way - twice the "slice" of its lowly power
rating (but the latter never with 'buckers - a VR with 'buckers will
make you want to give up playing guitar<G>). There is something about
4/10's that most 'buckers seem to love. I can't define it, but it has
never come out of any combination of 12's AFAIK.
icarusi
news:Ce43b.117096$3o3.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> You might think about two different types of speakers, an alnico and
a
> ceramic. I did this in my Super Reverb and it works well. I put
Eminence
> Legend 1028Ks in the top and Mojo Black Beauty 10"s in the bottom.
Neither
> of these speakers is great on their own but together they compliment
each
> other nicely.
Speaker mixing in twins is definitely worth trying. It's less easy to
target a specific sound but one way to get the hybrid sounds Jack is
after, if you happen across a suitable combination which works.
Gtski
<lbrt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:205ef942.03083...@posting.google.com...
That just about says it...
A 335.. the "right" 335 through a a good SR cranked is a sound 'to
behold'...
Somehow the 4-10s give *just* enough bass response and still the mid/highs
to 'cut' and 'slice' the mix.... in a "loud" situation...
My 'older' ears are worn enough that I'm thinking of 4-10s with a slightly
lower wattage amp....
This week-end I'm taking a 4x10 cab and playing a Pro Jr through it....
just
to see what it does... I think it'll sound VERY nice... :-)
gtski