Tapping (and other technical wizardry) ... Blech!
Andrew Lee
-- '85?) I thought this was soooo cool. But then I listened ... sounds
like two bad guitarists playing out of synch.
I just heard William Jakubaitis -- even worse.
I am sure these people are 'really good' but I don't hear it.
Rhetorical question: So, why do you play guitar? Do you play guitar to
play guitar or do you play guitar to play music?
If I could take a pill and wake up tomorrow with monster chops ... I
would. Why not? As long as my new chops did not make me deaf.
So who is your favorite technical wizard (to bash).
Cheers!
--
andrew_lee at earthlink dot net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
-- George Carlin
Shane
I'm in Australia, and Eric Johnson and the two guys from the Hellecasters
just toured through here. I went to the club where they were playing with
such great expectations, but it was just chops way too loud. I had expected
more from Eric, the band never played with the guys before, and they might
as well have been playing along to a midi. I just got the impression that
they were doing it for the money, and that's all. Apartently they flew in at
3pm and were flying out at 9am the next morning. I ended up walking out of
the place and walking into the bar next door where a Jazz Quintet were
playing, where I stayed until they closed.
It brings the question, where do you stop playing music and start playing
for money. Or like Andrew said; why do you play guitar? Do you play guitar
to play guitar or do you play guitar to play music?
That's what I love about Wes. Even when he started to do it for money (and
why shouldn't we get paid for it?) he still was playing music.
Cheers,
Shane.
"Andrew Lee" <ju...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B14D4A0...@earthlink.net...
kaetae
accuracy but I did not like the music, mostly because I did not understand
it. The same goes for Coryell, Martino, Metheney and even Hendrix.
But it instilled the idea of playing fusion in me. Once I was able to play
somewhat like those guys and understand what I was playing, I gained more
appreciation for them.
Possibly what we don't understand, we bash.
Pt
Chris Johnson
for money? Well, I figure that when you're being offered 50 grand
a gig, you're probably getting close!
Eric Johnson is an acquired taste that I don't have. He's a great
guitar player, sure, but he doesn't play anything that I want to hear.
It seems like he plays notes but not music, if you know what I mean.
CJ
Kevin Van Sant
in message <3B14EC0F...@earthlink.net> :
>Possibly what we don't understand, we bash.
possibly ?
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
http://www.onestopjazz.com
for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
Zappabark
but IMHO the guitar just isn't really made to be played that way, and I
don't like the way it sounds from a timbre standpoint. I wouldn't mind
hearing some of that stuff on a Chapman Stick, however.
I love to make fun of Al Dimeola (sp?), but respect his talents and own many
CDs. I can only take so much phyrgian, though! For a long time, I spent
many hours a day in a "practice closet" trying to develop chops like that.
Looking back, I wish I had spent all that effort developing my ear :-)
ZB
"Andrew Lee" <ju...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B14D4A0...@earthlink.net...
blindog
1978. Can't remember the names of the others but the set up was guitar,
violin, bass, percussion, drums (possibly Billy Cobham but I'm not sure).
Between the screeching of the violin and the 7000 notes per second
McLaughlin was playing (way too loud) it was unbearable. Too many notes in
search of an idea - or so I thought. This was at the Rainbow Theatre, if
memory serves.
I also happen to think Larry Coryell is over-rated. Scratchy tone, sloppy
playing. And for good measure, Sonny Greenwich doesn't do anything for me.
Naturally, if I could play anywhere nearly as well as any of the above, I
wouldn't be writing this :-)
BD
"Andrew Lee" <ju...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B14D4A0...@earthlink.net...
Ellen & Thornton Lewis
(though I like his "Live In New York" cd). I saw him solo once and thought
his approach of making the guitar act like a piano (totally independent
hands, one bass one solo) was misguided. I also don't care for a lot of his
material. So why do I tap? First voicings. With both hands on the neck I can
play closed voices (i.e. from the top of the chord 3,1,7,5 or 1,7,5,3)
easily and I like those sounds. Second, voice leading. With two hands it's
easy to move only the voices that need to move going from one chord to
another while letting the common tones ring, another effect I like. Third,
interval leaps and speed. I find skipping strings much easier with all those
extra fingers on the right hand available and using both hands frees you
from "position" playing. You can usually play entire melodies on one or two
strings if you want to ,and normally you don't need to move your left hand
frantically up and down the neck to play melodies (or solos) with a wide
range of notes. Finally, one could (though I currently can't very well) bend
two or even three strings different amounts leading (theoretically) to
beautiful pedal steel like effects. Van Halen and endless other metal
shredders use tapping to play superfast semiclassical triads which doesn't
interest me, but tapping can be more than that. The biggest drawback is
rhythm playing. I can't get that Freddie Green chunk effect or a real
down-home blues groove, but the voice leading and additional chord voicings
make up for it in my view of the world. Tone? It's always a matter of taste.
You won't sound like a classic Wes or Kenny Burrell solo. I play a strat and
find that tapping on an archtop is just useless. There are a million good
tones out there that you can achieve, I don't mind having a different one
from most jazzers. In short, Stanley Jordan, no. Tapping, yes!
Antonio Cano Sola
3B14FF5F...@cfl.rr.com...
> The question: Where do you stop playing music and start playing
> for money? Well, I figure that when you're being offered 50 grand
> a gig, you're probably getting close!
Maybe on the other side; most beginners (i´m one and will be next 30 years o
so) want to play LIKE (EXACTLY LIKE) someone else; Satriani, Clapton,
Johnson, Dream Theater, Scot Hendersons,... its a matter of the music you
like.
This is not for money but for self-satisfaction; they want not to play
music. They want to play the "music" another one does.
So, why do you play guitar? To be like?
Imagine you wake up and play like X (X whoever you want) żwhats next then?
Rhetorical question?? I personaly think this is a CORNERSTONE.
Andrew Lee
> It seems like he plays notes but not music, if you know what I mean.
>
Amen, Brother!
Trust me ... I have nothing against technique -- it's the beautiful marriage of
technique with taste that floats my boat -- viz. Joe Pass, "Virtuoso".
Chris Johnson
really JUST like it's portrayed in the movie The Matrix,
and you can get programmed with whatever skills are in the box of
skills disks. I'd opt for a broad musical education, of all the
music in the world, with highest level technical skills on every
stringed and plucked instrument, for starters.
Then I would have the tools to create the unique music that resides
strictly within my head. I'd take cues from the music of others,
but only as guideposts. I have my own vision of music but I don't
have the skills to realize them and quite frankly, I don't practice
enough to expect to get there anytime soon.
CJ
Antonio Cano Sola wrote:
>
> Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> 3B14FF5F...@cfl.rr.com...
> > The question: Where do you stop playing music and start playing
> > for money? Well, I figure that when you're being offered 50 grand
> > a gig, you're probably getting close!
>
> Maybe on the other side; most beginners (i´m one and will be next 30 years o
> so) want to play LIKE (EXACTLY LIKE) someone else; Satriani, Clapton,
> Johnson, Dream Theater, Scot Hendersons,... its a matter of the music you
> like.
>
> This is not for money but for self-satisfaction; they want not to play
> music. They want to play the "music" another one does.
>
> So, why do you play guitar? To be like?
> Imagine you wake up and play like X (X whoever you want) ¿whats next then?
broy
Andrew Lee wrote:
>
> When I first saw Stanley Jordan on David Letterman (I forget what year
> -- '85?) I thought this was soooo cool. But then I listened ... sounds
> like two bad guitarists playing out of synch.
>
> I just heard William Jakubaitis -- even worse.
>
> I am sure these people are 'really good' but I don't hear it.
>
> Rhetorical question: So, why do you play guitar? Do you play guitar to
> play guitar or do you play guitar to play music?
>
> If I could take a pill and wake up tomorrow with monster chops ... I
> would. Why not? As long as my new chops did not make me deaf.
>
> So who is your favorite technical wizard (to bash).
>
> Cheers!
> Ywngie Malmsteen-self-indulgent speed freak.
Gets boring quickly as each tune sounds the same.JMO
regards, broy
Dirk
of your tapping. You made me curious (and probably some others too)
Dirk
"Ellen & Thornton Lewis" <etl...@rcn.com> schreef in bericht
news:9f35al$r3a$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Zappabark
ZB
"Ellen & Thornton Lewis" <etl...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:9f35al$r3a$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Zappabark
about Joe Pass. Someone had written in saying that he had heard very little
of Joe Pass and bought the 1st Virtuoso to see what was what - and wasn't
that thrilled. Many agreed.
I love Joe Pass, but I can see where someone would say this (I don't agree,
however). For example, I'm very interested in guitarists who take arrange a
tune and stay within the confines of the rhythm and basic harmonic/melodic
structure, but otherwise go nuts with harmonics, etc - think Ted Greene
doing Danny Boy, or Tuck Andress doing Stella - I'm not saying I don't like
anything else, but rather, I find it interesting to hear because it's very
difficult to add endless 64th note runs tastefully. Anyway, I'm rambling.
Joe was being much more relaxed about this on the Virtuoso sessions, which I
happen to find pretty interesting in its own right and I think he married
technique and musicality very well throughout his career.
ZB
Side note - I grew up a die hard metal guy and one day had the oppurtunity
to see Joe Pass play. He came out on the "stage" with a cigar, sat down and
played for 2 hours. I was completely floored. Soon after, I had an archtop
and was plunking away Satin Doll learning changes. He was an incredible
player and a really nice guy.
"Andrew Lee" <ju...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B1520D2...@earthlink.net...
cl...@claymoore.com
<shane...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>You really want to know?
>
>I'm in Australia, and Eric Johnson and the two guys from the Hellecasters
>just toured through here. I went to the club where they were playing with
>such great expectations, but it was just chops way too loud. I had expected
>more from Eric, the band never played with the guys before, and they might
>as well have been playing along to a midi. I just got the impression that
>they were doing it for the money, and that's all. Apartently they flew in at
>3pm and were flying out at 9am the next morning. I ended up walking out of
>the place and walking into the bar next door where a Jazz Quintet were
>playing, where I stayed until they closed.
>
>It brings the question, where do you stop playing music and start playing
>for money. Or like Andrew said; why do you play guitar? Do you play guitar
>to play guitar or do you play guitar to play music?
>
>That's what I love about Wes. Even when he started to do it for money (and
>why shouldn't we get paid for it?) he still was playing music.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Shane.
Hi Shane,
Eric Johnson is a friend of mine, and I've been hearing him play for a
long time, so a completely objective opinion is not what you're going
to get from me. I happen to think he's an amazing player. But, I'd be
happy to toss in a few things to consider. For starters, who was
running sound? It was probably not the guys playing, so maybe they
were not entirely to blame. I find most soundmen to be WAY over the
top with sound reinforcement.
Next, knowing Eric even casually as I do, I can say with a fair degree
of confidence that money is not his motivation for playing. Over the
years he declined to play in a number of lucrative opportunities to
stay true to his musical vision. On his musical path he is a man
possessed; this has been documented by many who know him far better
than I.
Eric's Achille's heel is perhaps that he cares TOO much about how he
sounds and plays. He often has difficulty simply relaxing and being in
the moment, which manifests sometimes as distraction and withdrawing
from the energy and attention of the crowd. Perhaps he was having one
of those nights.
Clay Moore --
jazz guitarist
cl...@claymoore.com
http://www.claymoore.com/
To find out where I'm performing each week, sign up on my mailing list. Send a blank e-mail to cmgigs-s...@topica.com
Sign up for my weekly practice tips newsletter at: practice_ti...@topica.com
Bob Russell
etl...@rcn.com wrote on 5/30/01 12:01 PM:
> It's always a matter of taste.
And there, as Zappa used to say, is the crux of the biscuit. A technique is
just a tool. In the hands of an artist, a tool can be used to make beautiful
things. A legion of big-haired shredders made a lot of cartoon-soundtrack
noises with tapping; that doesn't mean that a more creative musician can't
do something musically substantial with the technique.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
G-man
don't like, but I think it's cheap to run down
anybody who is out there actually doing it.
I'm willing to say that, for instance, John
MacLaughlin is not my cup of tea, but I wouldn't
question the artistic merit of his work or his
motives. That just takes more nerve than I have.
So how does one discern between the players
who are honestly pursuing an artistic vision
that I just don't get, and the ones like
Kenny G who are simply pandering to the
masses in search of commercial success?
Well, that's a good question, but I'd rather
err on the side of giving someone the benefit
of the doubt, rather than running down
someone who I just don't get. I also don't want
to be like all the critics who dismissed guys
like Bird, Trane, Monk, Ornette...
Geoff...
Mark Kleinhaut
Well said Geoff. But it's not really taking any "nerve" for people to run
other people down, as you say, because this is just whoossey safe-behind-your-computer-screen
bullshit. Does anyone really think they're gonna go up to Stanley Jordan
and get in his face and tell him he sucks and that is lifetime of dedication
was a big wish-you-hadn't-done-it waste of time? What nonsense.
Are there overrated players, sure. Are there different strokes for different
folks? Of course. Is this the player's fault or the media's? The bashers
in the crowd would be better off spending the time to improve their own playing
rather than embarrasing themselves in this forum......
-----------------------------------------
Mark Kleinhaut markkl...@hotmail.com
Follow URL's for info and soundclips about:
my debut album "Amphora"
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
my newest album "Secrets of Three"
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
cl...@claymoore.com
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Are there overrated players, sure. Are there different strokes for different
>folks? Of course. Is this the player's fault or the media's? The bashers
>in the crowd would be better off spending the time to improve their own playing
>rather than embarrasing themselves in this forum......
Agreed!
Nicholas Delonas
dre...@yahoo.ca says...
> There are players that I like and some that I
> don't like, but I think it's cheap to run down
> anybody who is out there actually doing it.
> I'm willing to say that, for instance, John
> MacLaughlin is not my cup of tea, but I wouldn't
> question the artistic merit of his work or his
> motives. That just takes more nerve than I have.
Anyone who thinks John McLaughlin is a crass sell out is out of his
friggin' mind.
--
Nick Delonas
My band: http://ironia.net
My cult: http://cultv.com
Mark Kleinhaut
Now you're bashing a guy who was trying to bash the bashers. His point was
that eveyone is entitled to like what they like regardless of how "out of
his
friggin' mind" that makes him.
Nicholas Delonas
says...
>
> Now you're bashing a guy who was trying to bash the bashers.
No I wasn't. I was adding emphasis to his point.
> His point was
> that eveyone is entitled to like what they like regardless of how "out of
> his
> friggin' mind" that makes him.
>
Disliking it is one thing. Suggesting it's a cheap sell out is quite
another.
Bob Russell
dre...@yahoo.ca wrote on 5/30/01 3:25 PM:
Ah! The words of a reasonable man. Refreshing...
crib
<< Eric Johnson is a friend of mine... >>
i'm aware of three men, all named "eric johnson," all guitarists, all of whom
have released cds commercially under that name.
as no one has yet referenced an album title or any specific accomplishments, i
have no idea as to which you're referring.
crib
Andrew Lee
I'm not going to be the person to say "you suck!" But, I don't dig his stuff and I think his
technique gets in the way of the music. Also, there is a time and place to voice criticism.
Stanley Jordan certainly doesn't care what I think -- I have no delusions on that front. There
are occasions -- in venues, rehearsals, among peers ... on a newsgroup -- when I do voice my
opinion. Hell -- I was a bandleader; man, if you could ask them if I let my opinions be known --
wow! What a rancor you'd hear! ( there was only one time a mic stand was thrown and it was NOT
thrown at anyone .. no matter what you may have heard).
>
> Are there overrated players, sure. Are there different strokes for different
> folks? Of course. Is this the player's fault or the media's? The bashers
> in the crowd would be better off spending the time to improve their own playing
> rather than embarrasing themselves in this forum......
Mark, I respect your opinion and respect that you do not care to put an other player down. Do
keep in mind that this is just my opinion and I am speaking out of frustration over hearing a lot
about well publicized technicians and not so much about the people I really dig.
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Mark Kleinhaut markkl...@hotmail.com
> Follow URL's for info and soundclips about:
> my debut album "Amphora"
> www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
> my newest album "Secrets of Three"
> www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
--
Andrew Lee
broy wrote:
> Ywngie Malmsteen-self-indulgent speed freak.
> Gets boring quickly as each tune sounds the same.JMO
> regards, broy
Say no more!
Joey Goldstein
I'm the opposite. I am only in awe of the stuff I don't understand.
Since I don't understand it I figure it must be really good. <g> I may
not like it though.
--
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://members.tripod.com/joey_goldstein
Email: <joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
Andrew Lee
> OK, so suppose, just for the sake of argument, that the world is
> really JUST like it's portrayed in the movie The Matrix,
What makes you think it isn't?
Or is that the Matrix talking???
Seriously -- the distance between idea and execution ... yes yes ... this is why
we practice.
But -- in truth, I have days where I just don't have any good ideas! That's when
I load up the CD player.
Sorta goes to the heart of the matter -- are you gonna play music? Or just wiggle
your fingers? Well, that depends on whether or not I have anything to play.
crib
<< Do keep in mind that this is just my opinion and I am speaking out of
frustration over hearing a lot about well publicized technicians >>
i respect your admission that you're just voicing your opinion; and obviously,
you're entitled to hold whatever opinion you like.
if you think stanley jordan is "well-publicized," however, you and i are
reading different journals. the above would carry more weight if, say, you were
criticizing kenny g, soon after his 45-minute note trick.
crib
Tim Berens
<shane...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>It brings the question, where do you stop playing music and start playing
>for money. Or like Andrew said; why do you play guitar? Do you play guitar
>to play guitar or do you play guitar to play music?
I don't know about the rest of you, but I play guitar just for money
all the time. I call it paying my bills. In fact, I just got home
from a "just for money" gig with the Cincinnati Pops that paid pretty
well (in musician money), but was not artistically fulfilling.
It seems to me that we only pick on the big name players who play
"just for money". Everyone gets a pass as long as they are a local
player who just goes out and works, but once they cross over into the
harsh spotlight of national exposure, they must work only toward the
highest artistic goals.
I think we should all just let the guy make his living however he can.
I sure wouldn't have turned down a high paying gig in Australia, no
matter who I was playing with.
Tim
Tim Berens records for Red Mark Records
Sound clips on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RC22/102-7001331-0566459
cl...@claymoore.com
>i'm aware of three men, all named "eric johnson," all guitarists, all of whom
>have released cds commercially under that name.
>
>as no one has yet referenced an album title or any specific accomplishments, i
>have no idea as to which you're referring.
I don't know about Eric #3, but I've met two of them. I assumed Shane
was talking about the Austin, TX based EJ who is known for his
pyrotechnic, blues/rock based style. The reason I thought this is he
is the best known and would be likely to have been playing with the
Hellecasters guys. The other EJ I've met is the black player from
Pittsburgh,PA who played with Ramsey Lewis and is more of a
mainstream jazzer, not particularly chops oriented.
Joe Finn
news:3y6R6.2909$Yr1.1...@ozemail.com.au...
> It brings the question, where do you stop playing music and start playing
> for money. Or like Andrew said; why do you play guitar
>
every minute of it and on some level I'm doing it for my own selfish
reasons. If I never earn another dime I'll still be playing for my own
satisfaction and for the sheer joy of making music on my chosen instrument.
The first question gets a little stickier because we are talking about the
intersection of music and commerce. Since music is my occupation I do play
all kinds of commercial gigs: concerts, shows, receptions, etc. I don't see
the question as an either/or proposition. I have accepted lucrative jobs
where the money was a major factor in taking the date. I have turned down
work for the same money because the music truly sucked. I just try to use
my best judgment, put one foot in front of the other and move forward.
...joe
Visit me on the web. www.JoeFinn.net
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
crib
<< I assumed Shane was talking about the Austin, TX based EJ who is known for
his pyrotechnic, blues/rock based style. >>
of "ah via musicon" and "venus isle" fame?
(the third, by the way, is from boston. he's released a couple of cds. i
believe one of them was called "the boston quartets.")
crib
Bob Russell
crib...@aol.com.go.away wrote on 5/31/01 1:05 AM:
> clay moore writes:
>
> << I assumed Shane was talking about the Austin, TX based EJ who is known for
> his pyrotechnic, blues/rock based style. >>
>
> of "ah via musicon" and "venus isle" fame?
That's the one. (Isn't it "musicom"?) I always thought his playing and
sound(s) were great; I'd like to hear him playing on someone else's
compositions, though.
cl...@claymoore.com
>clay moore writes:
>
><< I assumed Shane was talking about the Austin, TX based EJ who is known for
>his pyrotechnic, blues/rock based style. >>
>
>of "ah via musicon" and "venus isle" fame?
Yep.
>
>(the third, by the way, is from boston. he's released a couple of cds. i
>believe one of them was called "the boston quartets.")
That must get confusing for them. Some years ago I played a musical
theater production in Austin, and our trumpet player was named Eric
Johnson, and we were all listed in the credits. I bear somewhat of a
physical resemblance to the "Ah Via Musicom" Eric J, and at a
pre-performance party some guy began following me around, insisting
that I was him. I kept telling him our EJ was a trumpet player, but he
thought I was trying to be anonymous.
Andy Bullington
"Tim Berens" <ti...@erinet.com> wrote in message news:3b15ba69$0$88178$4c5e...@news.erinet.com...
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I play guitar just for money
> all the time. I call it paying my bills. In fact, I just got home
> from a "just for money" gig with the Cincinnati Pops that paid pretty
> well (in musician money), but was not artistically fulfilling.
>
> It seems to me that we only pick on the big name players who play
> "just for money". Everyone gets a pass as long as they are a local
> player who just goes out and works, but once they cross over into the
> harsh spotlight of national exposure, they must work only toward the
> highest artistic goals.
>
> I think we should all just let the guy make his living however he can.
> I sure wouldn't have turned down a high paying gig in Australia, no
> matter who I was playing with.
Well said Tim. At what point does one become a role model and get
his picture on the Wheaties box?
Andy
Paul Sanwald
> On 31 May 2001 05:05:29 GMT, crib...@aol.com.go.away (crib) wrote:
>
> >clay moore writes:
> pre-performance party some guy began following me around, insisting
> that I was him. I kept telling him our EJ was a trumpet player, but he
> thought I was trying to be anonymous.
>
clay, you shoulda pulled a sonny rollins and left the guy tickets for your next concert :).
--paul
crib
<< (Isn't it "musicom"?) >>
yep. typo.
i'm a big fan of his, by the way. "venus isle" was a fantastic disc -- and i
have tremendous respect for the fact that, despite enormous pressure to follow
up his "ah via musicom" success, he took his time and didn't release "venus
isle" until he was ready to do so. from the articles i've read, he strikes me
as somewhat of a perfectionist -- something to which i can personally relate.
as i recall, he also declined to participate in the second G3 tour for artistic
reasons. he might very well be the *last* major label-signed artist i would
ever accuse of playing for money rather than for love of the music.
crib
Mike C.
certainly never played a note that he didn't reel. What isn't being
addressed here is that McLaughlin is the trendsetter. The fusion stuff was
certainly overdone in the '70's, but the guy went from fusion to acoustic
Indian music, fercrissake. The show I saw in Boston with Joey DeFrancesco
and Dennis Chambers was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. It certainly
wasn't backbeat-laden, metal-toned fusion. The improv just transcended the
room in which they played...
"Nicholas Delonas" <del...@cultv.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.157f2ddc2...@news.nac.net...
Bob Russell
crib...@aol.com.go.away wrote on 5/31/01 11:37 AM:
> i'm a big fan of his, by the way. "venus isle" was a fantastic disc -- and i
> have tremendous respect for the fact that, despite enormous pressure to follow
> up his "ah via musicom" success, he took his time and didn't release "venus
> isle" until he was ready to do so. from the articles i've read, he strikes me
> as somewhat of a perfectionist -- something to which i can personally relate.
He's definitely a perfectionist, worrying about which types of cable plugs
and batteries sound best! His attention (some would call it obsession)
to/with detail is well-documented.
>
> as i recall, he also declined to participate in the second G3 tour for
> artistic
> reasons. he might very well be the *last* major label-signed artist i would
> ever accuse of playing for money rather than for love of the music.
If Eric Johnson had mercenary tendencies, he certainly could have indulged
them in more profitable ways by now! The original poster probably saw Eric
doing a gig that was difficult for him in some way. Maybe he was jet-lagged
or putting up with bad sound or whatever. Who knows?
As I said earlier, I think Eric's a great player. I wouldn't call myself a
devoted fan, but I have a lot of respect for what he's accomplished
musically over the course of his life. In the original poster's defense, I
can see how it'd be disappointing to get to see a player of that caliber and
then come away from the show unsatisfied. But extrapolating from that that
he's just "playing for the money" is pretty extreme. After all, the bucks he
made for that gig probably wouldn't keep up Britney Spears' gerbil (in the
manner to which it's accustomed) for a week!
icarusi
news:3b1535e5....@news.concentric.net...
> Eric's Achille's heel is perhaps that he cares TOO much about how he
> sounds and plays. He often has difficulty simply relaxing and being
in
> the moment, which manifests sometimes as distraction and withdrawing
> from the energy and attention of the crowd. Perhaps he was having
one
> of those nights.
I'd put Eric in the 'keep tabs on' bracket with Jeff Beck. They're
guitarists 'most likely to' who hit the heights often enough, to allow
them to be less than spectacular all the time. I think a problem for
Eric is his unique area of specialisation is pretty narrowly defined,
so I don't know how much further he can go in that area? I think his
writing, playing and singing skills are evenly matched, so if he
wanted to 'downplay' the 'player' tag he can still thrive on general
composing and performing?
I think it's probably an error to expect any musician to be 'always'
exemplary, some will appeal to an individual more often than not, but
it's better to assess on a tune by tune basis, rather than expecting
them or dismissing them as, always excellent, or always terrible?
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Jeff Gower
"Mike C." <Funki...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Agreed. McLaughlin has never sold out, never gone with the trends, and
> certainly never played a note that he didn't reel. What isn't being
> addressed here is that McLaughlin is the trendsetter.
I also agree with Nicholas' comment. I simply cannot take seriously any
guitarist who doesn't recognize and appreciate (even if they don't
personally care for) the singular creativity and innovative technical
and musically expressive work of John McLaughlin over the past 30+
years.
> The show I saw in Boston with Joey DeFrancesco
> and Dennis Chambers was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. It certainly
> wasn't backbeat-laden, metal-toned fusion. The improv just transcended the
> room in which they played...
I saw this trio at UMass-Amherst in 1996 or 97, can't remember exactly
when. But I agree - it was an amazing experience......McLaughlin
walking onstage while improvising, the tightness of the trio, the level
of musicianship, etc.. It was indeed a transcendent experience, the
level of which is rarely witnessed in concert (at least by me). And all
for $5!! Can't beat that.
Jeff
crib
released. obviously, he's going to attract a guitarist-heavy audience no matter
where he plays; but this show was at the berklee performance center, so as you
can imagine, the audience was that much more guitar-focused.
the opening band played their set, and the stage was set up for johnson to come
on. just then, an official walked onstage to the microphone with an
announcement. apparently johnson had laryngitis; his throat was bothering him,
and he wasn't going to be able to sing. therefore -- "unfortunately" was the
word used -- he'd be playing an all-instrumental set.
you can imagine the cheering that erupted from the crowd.
i almost felt bad for the guy. personally, i enjoy his voice; i was kind of
bummed that he wouldn't be singing. still, it was a fantastic show.
crib
G-man
to MacLaughlin I think he is a genius, innovator and a huge
influence on jazz musicians in general, not just guitarists.
I was using him as example of someone who is obviously
a great artist, but just not a particular favorite of
mine. I was not comparing him to Kenny G. I thought
that was obvious.
Geoff...
Nicholas Delonas <del...@cultv.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.157f2ddc2...@news.nac.net>...
Kenneth Akoh-Arrey
JAlbin1916
>That must get confusing for them. Some years ago I played a musical
>theater production in Austin, and our trumpet player was named Eric
>Johnson, and we were all listed in the credits. I bear somewhat of a
>physical resemblance to the "Ah Via Musicom" Eric J, and at a
>pre-performance party some guy began following me around, insisting
>that I was him. I kept telling him our EJ was a trumpet player, but he
>thought I was trying to be anonymous.
>
Hmm. Ever notice that "Clay Moore" and "Eric Johnson" have never been
photographed together? More than just a coincidence? I think not!
-John
Nuke "hatespam" to reply
Check out my tune(s) at
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/154/john_albin.html
Mike C.
penny, though.
"Jeff Gower" <jgo...@gator.net> wrote in message
news:jgower-BF0D56....@75.71-127.64.133.209.in-addr.arpa...
Shane
there a a handful of us Jazz guys that appreciate Eric for the rest of his
music. I'm saying we paid $70 bucks a pop for tickets to see him strut his
stuff live, and if he really cared about the gig, he would have had one band
for the entire tour that he could be really tight with. What I saw was him
up front, the band struggling to keep up and him trying to make up for it by
playing louder. Sure he can do it for the money, but how can you do it for
the money if you get a reputation for playing without really feeling it.
No-one would pay to see him if you know it's not going to be music he's
playing.
To be concise, you can't play for the money if no-one is willing to pay you
for it. That's why you have to give 110% whether it pays good or not. That's
my point.
"Tim Berens" <ti...@erinet.com> wrote in message
news:3b15ba69$0$88178$4c5e...@news.erinet.com...
Andy Bullington
and he always plays loud. I don't know the particular circumstance of this
gig but I do know that he's conscientious to a fault. This sometimes results
in a sort of disconnect if he's unhappy with the sound. The amount of money he's spent
doing and redoing and redoing his albums is legendary in Austin. I doubt
if he's ever made much money off them after paying the production costs.
Of all the guys to accuse of being motivated by money alone, Eric Johnson
is one of the least likely targets I can think of .
As far as the disconnect thing...I've seen him on those nights and I've seen
him on wonderful nights. Way more good nights than bad. I've heard the same
thing about Sonny Rollins...(from an interview of Sonny Rollins as well as other
people) Some nights its happening and some nights its not. I'm sorry you didn't have a
pleasant experience, though...and for $70 thats gotta hurt.
Andy
"Shane" <shane...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:ixHR6.301$QW4....@ozemail.com.au...
Justin P.
Bob Russell <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B73AB4D7.8E04%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
> in article 9f35al$r3a$1...@bob.news.rcn.net, Ellen & Thornton Lewis at
> etl...@rcn.com wrote on 5/30/01 12:01 PM:
>
> > It's always a matter of taste.
> And there, as Zappa used to say, is the crux of the biscuit. A technique
is
> just a tool. In the hands of an artist, a tool can be used to make
beautiful
> things. A legion of big-haired shredders made a lot of cartoon-soundtrack
> noises with tapping; that doesn't mean that a more creative musician can't
> do something musically substantial with the technique.
cl...@claymoore.com
players in town said he was with Ramsey. I met Henry last year, and
I'm guessing he's close to my age, and played w/ Ramsey after Eric
did.
thomas
> And what's not creative about cartoon-soundtracks??
Yeah. Those old Warner Bros. cartoons have amazing scores, mostly by
Carl Stalling. That's some brilliant writing.
Bob Russell
jus...@parkerfly.demon.co.uk wrote on 5/31/01 2:43 PM:
> And what's not creative about cartoon-soundtracks??
(Sigh) Depends on the soundtrack, I suppose... and on what you consider
creative. Carry on...
icarusi
news:20010531113727...@ng-mq1.aol.com...
> i'm a big fan of his, by the way. "venus isle" was a fantastic
disc -- and i
> have tremendous respect for the fact that, despite enormous pressure
to follow
> up his "ah via musicom" success, he took his time and didn't release
"venus
> isle" until he was ready to do so. from the articles i've read, he
strikes me
> as somewhat of a perfectionist -- something to which i can
personally relate.
His current CD is a live album 'Alien Love Child' where he resisted
the common temptation to overdub it all in the studio. IIRC in an
interview, he did 'fix' something on the recording, but it was a
relatively minor part?
> as i recall, he also declined to participate in the second G3 tour
for artistic
> reasons. he might very well be the *last* major label-signed artist
i would
> ever accuse of playing for money rather than for love of the music.
IIRC his playing style was relatively disimilar Satriani and Vai, so
not as 'workable' on the threesomes. Also it was playing only for S&V,
no singing which EJ does, leaving him the odd one again? The guy from
Dream Theatre is doing 'it' next.
Richard Handel
"Andrew Lee" <ju...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B14D4A0...@earthlink.net...
> When I first saw Stanley Jordan on David Letterman (I forget what year
> -- '85?) I thought this was soooo cool. But then I listened ... sounds
> like two bad guitarists playing out of synch.
I just saw a street corner muscian last night in Alexandria, Va playing in a
Stanley Jordan like style. He used standard tuning and was playing tunes
like round midnight, blue bossa, and other standards. It was unreal. I had
never heard or seen anything like it in my life. He sounded like two
incredible guitarists playing together. Kind of depressing since the guy
looked like he was about 20 years old :)
Rick
Andrew Lee
Makes ya wanna take up ukulele.
Someone mentioned Tuck Andress in this thread. Super spider fingers -- and he
can swing (IMO). I have an instructional video of Tuck's. He is constantly
giving credit to the people who inspired him -- Sabicas and Joe Pass are two.
He also keeps hitting on the idea that all the technique in the world is
meaningless if it's not musical. You get the sense that he is very down to
earth about playing .
--
andrew_lee at earthlink dot net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
-- George Carlin
Robby
grasp of what he was doing technically, like how he was distributing string
sets & voicing & bass line between hands? or how his guitar was set up to
bring out the tapping?