Martino=Fast?
Mark Kleinhaut
I keep reading posts where people comment on Martino being fast, but I think
he's actually one of the slower guns around. Guys like Benson and Bruno,
and many others, can play three times faster than Martino. What Martino
has is a unique and relentless persistence to gradually build tension...wonderfully
mesmerizing and beatiful, but NOT fast.
markkl...@hotmail.com
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
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"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
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Max Leggett
On 17 Apr 2003 13:43:08 -0500, "Mark Kleinhaut"
Mark Kleinhaut
mleg...@nospam.ca (Max Leggett) wrote:
>Mark, did you make a final decision >about the new album title?
>
Max Leggett
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>mleg...@nospam.ca (Max Leggett) wrote:
>>Mark, did you make a final decision >about the new album title?
>>
>Hi Max, what does that have to do with this thread?
Well, you were talking about Martino being fast, and I was wondering
about the speed of your decision making, and I was too lazy to start a
new thread.
Mark Kleinhaut
yes, a decision has been made on the titel, but I'm telling you on this thread:)
tomw
>
> mleg...@nospam.ca (Max Leggett) wrote:
> >On 17 Apr 2003 13:55:11 -0500, "Mark Kleinhaut"
> ><markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>mleg...@nospam.ca (Max Leggett) wrote:
> >>>Mark, did you make a final decision >about the new album title?
> >>>
> >>Hi Max, what does that have to do with this thread?
> >
> >Well, you were talking about Martino being fast, and I was wondering
> >about the speed of your decision making, and I was too lazy to start a
> >new thread.
> >
> LOL....yu da funniest!
>
> yes, a decision has been made on the titel, but I'm telling you on this thread:)
>
How about "Kleinhaut=fast"?
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
Mark Kleinhaut
"Mark Kleinhaut" >yes, a decision has been made on the titel, but I'm telling
you on this thread:)
>
Oooopss, I meant title, not titel, and I meant to say I'm NOT telling you
on this thread. Man, this keyboard needs an upgrade:)
Jurupari
Clif
D.Onstenk
any other mainstream jazz guitarist beat guys like Stochelo and Jimmy
Rosenberg or Bireli Lagrene on their Maccaferris anyway. It's all so
relative.
#####
thom_j.
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e9f0056$1...@127.0.0.1...
>
> mleg...@nospam.ca (Max Leggett) wrote:
> >On 17 Apr 2003 13:55:11 -0500, "Mark Kleinhaut"
> ><markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>mleg...@nospam.ca (Max Leggett) wrote:
> >>>Mark, did you make a final decision >about the new album title?
> >>>
> >>Hi Max, what does that have to do with this thread?
> >
> >Well, you were talking about Martino being fast, and I was wondering
> >about the speed of your decision making, and I was too lazy to start a
> >new thread.
> >
> LOL....yu da funniest!
>
> yes, a decision has been made on the titel, but I'm telling you on this
thread:)
Well now your disqualified Mark K with the word "titel" phew! hahaha
t.j.
thom_j.
>
> "Mark Kleinhaut" >yes, a decision has been made on the titel, but I'm
telling
> you on this thread:)
> >
>
> Oooopss, I meant title, not titel, and I meant to say I'm NOT telling you
> on this thread. Man, this keyboard needs an upgrade:)
Yea Yea Sure Sure Right! You've been going to the Jimmy Bruno School
of typing! Who are you kidding? You're disqualified from naming your own
title! :8^) the tee'ster
Steve Modica
--
Steve Modica
"Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day, hit him with a fish and
he leaves you alone" - me
Don & Heidi
"Jurupari" <juru...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030417160551...@mb-m13.aol.com...
Robert Firestone
> I keep reading posts where people comment on Martino being fast, but I think
> he's actually one of the slower guns around. Guys like Benson and Bruno,
> and many others, can play three times faster than Martino. What Martino
> has is a unique and relentless persistence to gradually build tension...wonderfully
> mesmerizing and beatiful, but NOT fast.
> markkl...@hotmail.com
I think that Martino, more than the others, relies on long static
lines- really long lines and at a pretty fast speed as times. Now no
one that you mention could touch McLaughlin, though I haven't heard
much Bruno. I know Benson can't. Or hasn't on any recordings that I
have heard.
Dan Adler
> he's actually one of the slower guns around.
Mark,
I guess this is my day to disagree with you... After all the Gefilte
Fish I have a lot of energy for pontification :-)
Being fast is not just the velocity and density of the notes you put
out. To me, it means playing CREATIVELY at a fast tempo.
By my defintion, I think of Joe Pass as being the fastest ever,
because the level of creativity at high speed that he brought to
"Catch Me", "Night and Day", "Limehouse Blues" and pretty much every
cut of "For Django" has never been matched. No one has even come
close. Even Joe Pass himself could not match it in later years. In
later years, the faster he played, the less creative he sounded (like
most humans), but in the early years, the faster the tempo, the MORE
inventive he played!
Others can play with more velocity and sometimes even with more feel,
but that does not translate to inventiveness. That's just wiggling
your fingers faster, not necessarily CREATING music faster. The latter
is a function of how fast your brain and musical mind work, not just
your fingers.
Pat Martino's creativity on "Impressions" and the fast minor blues at
the end of Consciousness (I'm too lazy to look up the name) are also
mileposts of creativity at high speeds. So, I think he's way up there,
though I agree that he's not number one in raw finger-wiggle speed.
soapy10999
McLaughlin? (when he's not sloppin it up)
Django for that matter?
This is all ridiculous conversation but I thought I might add some names to
the needed speeding tickets recipients
--
Chris Buono
www.chrisbuono.com
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e9ef5bc$1...@127.0.0.1...
>
Jurupari
yeah, but in duets, they get done quicker!
Jay Carlson
>
> Clif
LOL!
Jay
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jay_Carlson/
Kevin Van Sant
<soapy...@comcast.net> wrote in message
<HN2cnZkwsqU...@comcast.com> :
>This is all ridiculous conversation but I thought I might add some names to
>the needed speeding tickets recipients
well then we have to mention Bruce Foreman. He has that ability which
Dan talked about regarding Joe Pass to be inventive with complete
command at blazing speed.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
D.Onstenk
better than gypsy jazz. But as far as speed and articulation is concerned,
these gypsy guitarists are unsurpassable. Speed and articulation are a
hallmark of their style. I don't think I have ever heard any guitarist pick
faster than the true masters in this particular style.
I have seen many of them play live and that part of their playing is simply
awesome.
I admire these gypsy guitarists for what they have done for jazz guitar over
here. Apart from me, nobody here in my street would know who Pat Martino is,
but I guess most people would know the Rosenberg trio. They have opened up
jazz for a wide audience in the Netherlands (even if it's a particular genre
of jazz). No jazz guitarist has ever suceeded in doing that.
It amazes me that their chops oriented style fascinates so many people. Even
people that hardly know what jazz is visit their concerts and buy their cds.
The Rosenbergs are probably a household name over here and they are all
driving a big mercedes now, hehe.
#####
"Steve Modica" <mod...@sgi.com> schreef in bericht
news:3E9F1F3B...@sgi.com...
Geordie F.O. Kelly
excelled at. I think I read recently where Metheny said that Kenny Garrett
was one of the few people who expressed themselves meaningfully at fast
tempi.
Of course, this is all so subjective. In that regard, I also agree with
Chris Buono: "This is all ridiculous conversation but...."
--
Geordie F.O. Kelly
Guitarist/Jazz Improvisation Instructor
Armed Forces School of Music
http://heritageguitar.com/artists/
"Dan Adler" <d...@danadler.com> wrote in message
news:820e87.030417...@posting.google.com...
D.Onstenk
albums indeed, the fast playing is so outstanding and so inventive. Most
early Joe Pass is a class in its own.
#####
"Geordie F.O. Kelly" <jazzg...@cox.net> schreef in bericht
news:i6Rna.127975$yh1.7...@news1.east.cox.net...
Kevin Van Sant
<hqlly8d...@random-node.example.org> :
>>
>> It amazes me that their chops oriented style fascinates so many people. Even
>> people that hardly know what jazz is visit their concerts and buy their cds.
>There's a discussion currently going on in the classical guitar newsgroup
>regarding why the classical guitar is such an unpopular instrument with the
>general public.
>
>In my opinion, a major part of reason why concerns the fact that the classical
>guitar has a very middly sound, that can sound muddy and non dynamic to the
>casual listener.
>Contrast the average jazz guitar sound to that used by the Rosenbergs - much
>more dynamic and performance orientated, and maybe the fact that it's closer
>to it's dance music roots helps (people like stuff that physically moves
It's not the instrument. How can one guitar even be more "performance
orientated" than another. If classical guitar is not as popular it
is merely because the music typically played on it is not as popular.
jessi
did you make a final decision about the new album title?
>
> On 17 Apr 2003 13:43:08 -0500, "Mark Kleinhaut"
> <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I keep reading posts where people comment on Martino being
>> fast, but I think
>>he's actually one of the slower guns around. Guys like
>> Benson and Bruno,
>>and many others, can play three times faster than Martino.
>> What Martino
>>has is a unique and relentless persistence to gradually
>> build tension...wonderfully
>>mesmerizing and beatiful, but NOT fast.
>>markkl...@hotmail.com
>>
>>Info and soundclips about:
> etc..
--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com
http://web2news.com/?rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
pmfan57
>
> I guess this is my day to disagree with you... After all the Gefilte
> Fish I have a lot of energy for pontification :-)
>
> Being fast is not just the velocity and density of the notes you put
> out. To me, it means playing CREATIVELY at a fast tempo.
>
> By my defintion, I think of Joe Pass as being the fastest ever,
> because the level of creativity at high speed that he brought to
> "Catch Me", "Night and Day", "Limehouse Blues" and pretty much every
> cut of "For Django" has never been matched. No one has even come
> close. Even Joe Pass himself could not match it in later years. In
> later years, the faster he played, the less creative he sounded (like
> most humans), but in the early years, the faster the tempo, the MORE
> inventive he played!
>
> Others can play with more velocity and sometimes even with more feel,
> but that does not translate to inventiveness. That's just wiggling
> your fingers faster, not necessarily CREATING music faster. The latter
> is a function of how fast your brain and musical mind work, not just
> your fingers.
>
> Pat Martino's creativity on "Impressions" and the fast minor blues at
> the end of Consciousness (I'm too lazy to look up the name) are also
> mileposts of creativity at high speeds. So, I think he's way up there,
> though I agree that he's not number one in raw finger-wiggle speed.
>
> -Dan
> http://danadler.com
Strunz et al. They are very fast but it's kind of like being the best
person at running in place. Pass in the Pacific jazz days, and on
some of his later recordings (Soon from Ira, George and Joe) is
playing remarkably like Clifford Brown at up tempos. Martino in On the
Stairs (the one Dan is thinking of) is really cooking too.
Holdsworth is laying down some heavy stuff, though, at a very fast
note rate. But I don't think of him the way I think of Dimeola. I
think of him more like the way I think of Zawinul.
BTW, on Benson's CTI Carnegie hall recording, there is a cut in which
he plays every bit as fast as McLaughlin. He burns it up.
Birelli, among the gypsies, can play the best regular bebop jazz
guitar. He's just the most amazing overall plectrum guitarist, in my
op.
pmfan57
>
> I guess this is my day to disagree with you... After all the Gefilte
> Fish I have a lot of energy for pontification :-)
>
> Being fast is not just the velocity and density of the notes you put
> out. To me, it means playing CREATIVELY at a fast tempo.
>
> By my defintion, I think of Joe Pass as being the fastest ever,
> because the level of creativity at high speed that he brought to
> "Catch Me", "Night and Day", "Limehouse Blues" and pretty much every
> cut of "For Django" has never been matched. No one has even come
> close. Even Joe Pass himself could not match it in later years. In
> later years, the faster he played, the less creative he sounded (like
> most humans), but in the early years, the faster the tempo, the MORE
> inventive he played!
>
> Others can play with more velocity and sometimes even with more feel,
> but that does not translate to inventiveness. That's just wiggling
> your fingers faster, not necessarily CREATING music faster. The latter
> is a function of how fast your brain and musical mind work, not just
> your fingers.
>
> Pat Martino's creativity on "Impressions" and the fast minor blues at
> the end of Consciousness (I'm too lazy to look up the name) are also
> mileposts of creativity at high speeds. So, I think he's way up there,
> though I agree that he's not number one in raw finger-wiggle speed.
>
> -Dan
> http://danadler.com
Richard
> BTW, on Benson's CTI Carnegie hall recording, there is a cut in which
> he plays every bit as fast as McLaughlin. He burns it up.
Which cut? I bought that CD about a year ago, and was disappointed.
George sounded...nervous, or something. Weird little vibrato he had.
--
For email, put NOT SPAM in Subject or I won't see your msg.
........ Personal opinions ................................
...... ObURL: http://home.earthlink.net/~huddler.......
.............................................. <>< ........
Jay Wolfe
I really enjoyed seeing & hearing him "live" in January.
He really is amazing. He opened his set by explaining that....
" I will merely be playing the guitar. I have no tatoo's nor
piercings,
will not smoke, use profanity nor leap about the stage. I will merely
play the guitar. For those of you that still consider playing the
guitar 'entertainment', I invite you to stay. Very funny, and true.
He's absolutely an original musical treasure, and a truly great
player.
He can, and often does, play his notes so fast, that a typical
loudspeaker cannot keep up. Speakers will just "vibrate" or "flutter"
at times.
Jay Wolfe
Jay Wolfe
Last time I was in Amsterdam, Heard the Tolga Emelio Trio.
They were a good, fun, Gypsy trio, playing at a street book fair.
Bought their cd. It's quite good. You know of them?
Jay Wolfe, Jupiter, Florida USA
Chris Hare
gives a crap...", I still have to pipe in.
About this classical guitar thing, I think that one reason why classical
guitar is so unpopular is because it's just really boring, and it's pretty
much an "inbred" instrument as far as the repretoire and style is concerned.
My wife used to be bored to tears when I used to drag her to classical
recitals, while I and my guitarist friends would be keenly interested to see
if So-and-so's tremelo was better articulated than Whats-his-names, all the
non guitarists just don't give a shit.
Jazz music, and the "gypsy-jazz" have a cultural and social place, even if
it's in a bar. Even Haydn and Mozart were "background" music in their day.
Now we act like every note was pure masterpiece (don't get me wrong 'cuz I
love Mozart), but back then it was just part of the scene. If it only
exists in the concert hall, or the practice room, then it's not a real
dialogue and it becomes "inbred." It becomes "...hey, check out my
tremelo!" when the listener's thinking, "...God, didn't I hear this on a
frozen pizza commercial the other day...."
Just my 2-cents.
Chris
in article hqlly8d...@random-node.example.org, ch...@example.org at
ch...@example.org wrote on 4/18/03 7:11 AM:
> "D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> writes:
>>
>> It amazes me that their chops oriented style fascinates so many people. Even
>> people that hardly know what jazz is visit their concerts and buy their cds.
>>
>
> There's a discussion currently going on in the classical guitar newsgroup
> regarding why the classical guitar is such an unpopular instrument with the
> general public.
>
> In my opinion, a major part of reason why concerns the fact that the classical
> guitar has a very middly sound, that can sound muddy and non dynamic to the
> casual listener.
>
> Contrast the average jazz guitar sound to that used by the Rosenbergs - much
> more dynamic and performance orientated, and maybe the fact that it's closer
> to it's dance music roots helps (people like stuff that physically moves
> them).
>
> --
> Regards, Chris
Greg M. Silverman
>
> Even Haydn and Mozart were "background" music in their day.
they were, that's news to me!
gms--
Chris Hare
parties" for his benefacors, the Esterhazy's.
Chris
in article 3EA0AF5E...@cccs.umn.edu, Greg M. Silverman at
g...@cccs.umn.edu wrote on 4/18/03 9:07 PM:
Greg M. Silverman
>
> A good deal of Haydn's symphonies were written to be performed at "dinner
> parties" for his benefacors, the Esterhazy's.
yes, but a lot of Mozart's music was also written for initimate recitals
of major benefactors too who truly appreciated the music...and a lot of
Hayden's music was also given in recital. You can't generalize your
statement, espeiclally since you yourself said a "good deal."
And it sounds like you're seeing the wrong classical guitarists... what
about the Assad Brothers with Nadja Solerno Sonnenberg. If that isn't
exciting music, I don't know what is... or if you think Roland Dyens is
boring, I am truly sorry. Or listen to Alexander Sergei Ramairez play
the music of Barrios. It can move one to tears. Or listen to David
Starobin play anythiong contemporary or even from the classical period.
Or see Eduardo Fernandez in recital playing a Bach lute suite. Or David
Tanenbaum playing the music of Piazzolla, etc., etc., etc. They all play
the music fresh like it had never been before played, and they play from
within themselves. It's not all about tremolo. Emotion does exist in
the whole genre. So does improvisation: listen to Andrew Manze play the
msuic of Vivladi or Bach on Baroque violin. This is exciting stuff.
gms--
Greg M. Silverman
Max Leggett
>Although my inclination is to just respond to this thread by saying "...who
>gives a crap...", I still have to pipe in.
>
>About this classical guitar thing, I think that one reason why classical
>guitar is so unpopular is because it's just really boring,
Like hell it is. Try playing a Bach sarabande and tell me it's boring.
The lute suites are astonishing.
>My wife used to be bored to tears when I used to drag her to classical
>recitals,
Should have taken her to see David Russell or Leo Brouwer. Not boring.
Hot.
thom_j.
"Greg M. Silverman" <g...@cccs.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:3EA0AF5E...@cccs.umn.edu...
Ditto here too gms-- It seem to be a bit of re'writing of history here?
t.j.
thom_j.
Great examples btw, and dont forget the more typos the closer you'll
be with some of the greats of rmmgj. Can you say Jimmy Bruno? :8^)
cheers thom_j.
Greg M. Silverman
>
> On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:56:30 GMT, Chris Hare <ha...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >Although my inclination is to just respond to this thread by saying "...who
> >gives a crap...", I still have to pipe in.
> >
> >About this classical guitar thing, I think that one reason why classical
> >guitar is so unpopular is because it's just really boring,
>
> Like hell it is. Try playing a Bach sarabande and tell me it's boring.
> The lute suites are astonishing.
and not for the weak of mind.
>
> >My wife used to be bored to tears when I used to drag her to classical
> >recitals,
>
> Should have taken her to see David Russell or Leo Brouwer. Not boring.
> Hot.
Brouwer... his Rara CD is so amazing... to bad he had to give up
playing. :(
gms--
Greg M. Silverman
ahhhhh, thank very much (in Elvoid dialect).
gms--
Greg M. Silverman
happens all the time...
and there were performers in bars and teverns for the common peoples
dating back to the troubadors, and even up to the time of Henry
Purcell. Not all music was for royalty. Not that royalty couldn't
appreciate the music. And I would have loved to attend church where Bach
was cappelmeister. That would have been quite a trip to hear him at the
organ.
if only jazz musicians had royalty or the church to support them... :-)
I think that both so-called classical music and jazz are completely
underappreciated by the general public. To say only classical music is
in trouble, is a bit disingenuous.
gms--
Chris Hare
great. But it can still get boring. (I have to say that I really don't
care for Fernandez playing Bach by the way).
I have a masters in jazz studies with a minor in classical guitar. That
still doesn't make it less "boring" for my wife or other folk who don't know
the repretoire or understand the technical aspects of what's going on.
I just think that classical guitar is a very "inbred" genre. I know that
there are all sorts of examples that you are pointing out that are
exceptions, but they're very few when you look at the whole world of
"Classical Guitar" and compare it to the jazz idiom.
I think classical guitar is a harder thing to tame than jazz guitar. That's
probably why it's harder to find exciting players.
Didn't mean to cause such a mess.
By the way, let's settle it once and for all: who's faster....Pat Martino,
or Eliot Fisk?
Chris
in article 3EA0B7A9...@cccs.umn.edu, Greg M. Silverman at
g...@cccs.umn.edu wrote on 4/18/03 9:42 PM:
Richard Bornman
"Robert Firestone" <rof...@hotmail.com> wrote :
> I think that Martino, more than the others, relies on long static
> lines- really long lines and at a pretty fast speed as times. Now no
> one that you mention could touch McLaughlin, though I haven't heard
> much Bruno. I know Benson can't. Or hasn't on any recordings that I
> have heard.
Robert,
Don't be fooled!! Benson has technique that is just about peerless
when it comes to jazz single lines.
There are some licks/techniques he has that I have NEVER heard
duplicated by any other player.
How closely have you listened to his stuff.
I have seen a vid of GB with McLaughlin, and chops-wise
its NO context, GB just smokes.
Steve Carl
>
> By the way, let's settle it once and for all: who's faster....Pat Martino,
> or Eliot Fisk?
>
>
> Chris
>
Fisk, of course. But Yamashita's even faster.
Is this an athletic competition?
Steve Carl
Steve Carl
> Robert,
> Don't be fooled!! Benson has technique that is just about peerless
> when it comes to jazz single lines.
> There are some licks/techniques he has that I have NEVER heard
> duplicated by any other player.
> How closely have you listened to his stuff.
> I have seen a vid of GB with McLaughlin, and chops-wise
> its NO context, GB just smokes.
And I remember seeing Benson on "Midnight Special" one night
back in the 70s, and Glen Campbell smoked him big time.
Steve Carl
Robert Firestone
Wow,
Where did you see that video? I would love to see it!
Robert
danstearns
and I thought Benson blew them off the stage too. But I also think
that both McLaughlin and Coryell are more substantial artists than
Benson--that throughout the course of their careers they contributed
more to the music in the overall.
Jack Grassel has wicked clean right-hand speed. James Emery too--in
fact, Emery's playing with the String Trio of NY kind of resembles
what one of the gypsy guitarist might sound like if they'd studied
with Anthony Braxton!
Dan Stearns
Guitarist-composer-microtonalist:
http://www.zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
"Richard Bornman" <richard...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:<b7qtmr$3g0ue$1...@ID-173106.news.dfncis.de>...
Don & Heidi
"Dan Adler" <d...@danadler.com> wrote in message
news:820e87.030417...@posting.google.com...
> "Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<3e9ef5bc$1...@127.0.0.1>...
think
> > he's actually one of the slower guns around.
>
Don & Heidi
"D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> wrote
>
> The Rosenbergs are probably a household name over here and they are all
> driving a big mercedes now, hehe.
>
> #####
What colors did they paint the trailor?
dj
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve Modica" <mod...@sgi.com> schreef in bericht
> news:3E9F1F3B...@sgi.com...
> > are you saying they're all just "minor" players? :)
> >
> > D.Onstenk wrote:
> > > As far as speed and articulation is concerned, I don't see George
Benson
> or
> > > any other mainstream jazz guitarist beat guys like Stochelo and Jimmy
> > > Rosenberg or Bireli Lagrene on their Maccaferris anyway. It's all so
> > > relative.
> > >
> > > #####
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Steve Modica
> > "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day, hit him with a fish and
> > he leaves you alone" - me
> >
>
>
Greg M. Silverman
>
> I've seen the Assad's, David Russel, LA Guitar Quartet,....etc. They're all
> great. But it can still get boring. (I have to say that I really don't
> care for Fernandez playing Bach by the way).
>
> I have a masters in jazz studies with a minor in classical guitar. That
> still doesn't make it less "boring" for my wife or other folk who don't know
> the repretoire or understand the technical aspects of what's going on.
>
> I just think that classical guitar is a very "inbred" genre. I know that
> there are all sorts of examples that you are pointing out that are
> exceptions, but they're very few when you look at the whole world of
> "Classical Guitar" and compare it to the jazz idiom.
>
Hmmmm... not sure what you mean by this?
> I think classical guitar is a harder thing to tame than jazz guitar. That's
> probably why it's harder to find exciting players.
>
> Didn't mean to cause such a mess.
>
Well, whadya gonna do?
> By the way, let's settle it once and for all: who's faster....Pat Martino,
> or Eliot Fisk?
Does it really matter?
gms--
Don & Heidi
all
Martino,
> or Eliot Fisk?
>
>
> Chris
>
Don & Heidi
"thom_j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_ZydnZt5NqF...@comcast.com...
Actually they weren't even background music generally. And if
Mozart was writing for an intimate gathering that translates as
about the same as background music for a dinner party whether
it was commissioned by Frederick the Great or Ferdinand the
Bull.
The dynamics for classical guitar are extremely limited compared
to almost any other instrument. All you can change is your attack.
Then the note quickly dies to its sustain level which can only be
of a certain volume or less but always quieter than the attack. The
sustain starts to drain instantly to the decay and release level. There
is no control over this other than to stop the note. Hence the nonsense like
tremelo to approximate sustain. Classical guitar is
overreaching and ultimately boring. Any violin version that is competent is
better than any version of the sonatas and partitas
of Bach as played on the guitar.
>
Don & Heidi
for 30 years. It's boring to me at least. The double helps.
"Max Leggett" <mleg...@nospam.ca> wrote in message
news:3ea0b995...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Max Leggett
wrote:
>I play that little Sarabande in Bm. A little gem. I've played it
>for 30 years. It's boring to me at least. The double helps.
Well, there's rather more than one sarabande, but if you find the one
you know to be boring, then don't waste your time on it. I find good
classical guitar, like Sharon Isben and David Russel, anything but
boring.
Greg M. Silverman
never having met a boring Sarabande, I guess it's all a matter of taste,
eh?
gms--
Jurupari
>eh?
>
>gms--
>
guess so.
I had a friend I mention here once in awhile, the late Jerry Davis, who became
a classical guitarist rather late in life so he could teach in college.
He'd been a smokin' jazz player and damn good commercial player for years.
When he finally got a university job, I asked him if he liked playing
classical, and his reply was 'Sarabandes, allemandes and minuets....I went from
playing 1960's dance music to 1760's dance music!'
Clif Kuplen
Max Leggett
>I had a friend I mention here once in awhile, the late Jerry Davis, who became
>a classical guitarist rather late in life so he could teach in college.
>
> He'd been a smokin' jazz player and damn good commercial player for years.
>When he finally got a university job, I asked him if he liked playing
>classical, and his reply was 'Sarabandes, allemandes and minuets....I went from
>playing 1960's dance music to 1760's dance music!'
Right. But it's still dance music, and, decently played, it still has
the rhythmic and meoldic thrust to impel that vertical impression of a
horizontal act. Bach rewls!!!! If you don't believe me, read on:
The Invention of Rock and Roll: October 23d, 1715
Oh man, dig it. It's 1715. An autumn evening. You're standing outside
Die Rathskeller, on the door of which is pasted a notice: "Good
Rocking 2-Nite! Johnny Seb and his Go for Baroque Boys! Admission - 2
pfennigs." The doors are open, the ticket taker glazed and smiling,
the windows thrown back. Inside the frauleins are screaming, "Johann!
Johann!", and the herren are chanting, "Ja! Ja! Ja ja ja!". Through
the must of hops and tobacco you see him strut stage front, his face
shiny with perspiration, wig askew, frilled shirt open to his waist.
The band wails, blowing like a hurricane. The screams go louder. He
stands at the front of the stage and surveys the screaming, roiling
crowd, lord of all he surveys. "Vell! Let me hear you say Ja!" and the
screaming and shouting redoubles, the walls pulsing with the energy. A
woman faints. He points one finger at the ceiling, and shouts above
the noise: "Leipzeig! Ve luff you!" and he's gone as the screams
crescendo one last time. Another night in Rock and Roll. Johnny Seb.
The Rockin' Rebel. Dig it.
Jurupari
>Let me hear you say Ja!" and the
>screaming and shouting redoubles, the walls pulsing with the energy. A
>woman faints. He points one finger at the ceiling, and shouts above
>the noise: "Leipzeig! Ve luff you!"
...suddenly a commotion erupts near the door..as the portals fly wide, the
gasping crowd parts whispering, "Wolfgang!, Wolfgang!". Suddenly there is
silence throughout the hall as Johnny Seb's gaze meets the interloper, who
squares his stance, grinds his cigarillo out on the dance floor, squints and
says,
..."I hear tell you're fast..."
Max Leggett
Johann gives the interloper the eye. "I can play a bit. Like a sit
in?"
Richard Bornman
"danstearns" <daniel_anth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ab38ce07.03041...@posting.google.com...
> Yeah, I agree. I saw Benson, Coryell and McLaughlin playing together
> and I thought Benson blew them off the stage too. But I also think
> that both McLaughlin and Coryell are more substantial artists than
> Benson--that throughout the course of their careers they contributed
> more to the music in the overall.
Dan,
Did you see how Coryell got pissed about something
at the start of his solo...he looks at the band and signals
that they cut what they are doing...He sounds so sad on
that...
As I iterated above, there are some licks GB has that
I have NEVER heard another player do.
There is the thing where he plays like a descending
chromatic or scalar line at high speed, and while
that happens he interpolates lower pitches...
It sounds like 2 players. Check out
Affirmation and many others to hear this bit
of hocus pocus. And of course, unlike many
other technical wizards, he does it with amazing
time and tone. I have heard them ALL and I have yet to
hear someone with the mastery of mainstream jazz
single lines that GB has. He just never seems
to be straining to get anything.
YMMV.
Jurupari
>hear someone with the mastery of mainstream jazz
>single lines that GB has. He just never seems
>to be straining to get anything.
>YMMV.
well, he's got plenty of pyrotechics on top of everything else, but there are
other guitarists I like better for straight ahead single lines.
I don't mean for that to sound disrespecful, because George is truly a
monster, but some guitarists can be really scintillating and harmonically hit
the same places my mind is going in a way I find more pleasing.
When I'm anticipating a reharm in my mind and the guitarist goes there too, or
gets it in some way that's different but does the same thing, those are the
moments I find most pleasing for single line playing, maybe because I'm sort of
imagining myself responding musically to the situation.
I get a very high incidence of that in some guitar players and not so much in
others, and since I spent a lot of time figuring out how my heroes were doing
what they were doing melodically, that probably has a lot to do with it.
I have heard Benson do some things I don't think anyone else could duplicate,
but that's not enough to carry the day for me - I like guitarists who spend a
little more of their playing time doing multiline stuff and messing around with
contrary motion, and for probably that reason, their single lines are more
interesting to me.
Clif Kuplen
Robert Firestone
Well, Richard-
C'mon, where can I get the tape?
Robert
Robert Firestone
I found classical guitar boring until I could play it. That may be
what it takes, an expansion of one's experience.
Richard Bornman
"Jurupari" <juru...@aol.com> wrote :
> well, he's got plenty of pyrotechics on top of everything else, but there
are
> other guitarists I like better for straight ahead single lines.
Care to mention who?
>
> I don't mean for that to sound disrespecful, because George is truly a
> monster, but some guitarists can be really scintillating and harmonically
hit
> the same places my mind is going in a way I find more pleasing.
>
> When I'm anticipating a reharm in my mind and the guitarist goes there
too, or
> gets it in some way that's different but does the same thing, those are
the
> moments I find most pleasing for single line playing, maybe because I'm
sort of
> imagining myself responding musically to the situation.
I prefer a player to suprise me...GB surprises me constantly. Sometimes
I can't believe he is playing another minor pentatonic lick...and that it
still hits me hard!!! As has been said before, GB uses inside sounds,
and rhythmically simple ideas (generally), yet attains a complexity
of expression most never reach.
> I have heard Benson do some things I don't think anyone else could
duplicate,
> but that's not enough to carry the day for me
Not for me either...The thing is he covers anything the other guys can do
too
- I like guitarists who spend a
> little more of their playing time doing multiline stuff and messing around
with
> contrary motion, and for probably that reason, their single lines are more
> interesting to me.
Me too...which is part of the reason GB surprises me...I mean I love the
polyphony and all that stuff, but after all that "complexity", I hear him
again
and I find myself floored all over again.
Richard Bornman
"Robert Firestone" <rof...@hotmail.com> wrote :
> Well, Richard-
> C'mon, where can I get the tape?
Robert,
I saw this at a friend...I am in Australia btw...
It was at a Spanish Gtr Expo thing.
Paco, John McL, Coryell, GB, Stan Clarke.
Jurupari
Yeah, my favorite single line guys coming up were Joe Pass, Tal when he was a
fulltime pro and not livin' large in N.J. Wes, Pat Martino, George (he's in
there, just not the main guy) and two of George's favorites, Howard Roberts and
Hank Garland, not really in that order.
I was playing B3 funk and third stream jazz for a living, so my listening
tended to go less towards the more bluesy guitarists like GB and Wes since I
was doing that every night anyway.
At that time there were a lot of really terrible imitators of those guys (GB
and Wes) in clubs, who'd never heard anything but their commercial releases,
and I was sort of avoidant of that audience.
Also, before he became a nylon specialist, Gene Bertoncini was a burnin' high
tempo plectrum guitarist. Beautiful tone and some wonderful Tal-like lines.
Since then, for that kind of playing, I really like Jimmy Bruno and Jesse Van
Ruller - if I were comin' up right now that's two people I'd be paying
attention to for bop ideas - I think maybe Jack Grassel, too, but I've only
heard a smidgen.
What I like is their choice of harmony and the ability to execute it at any
tempo without diluting it.
>I prefer a player to suprise me...GB surprises me constantly.
Well, me too, but I'm usually a little more moved by the melodic content of the
other guys, and I'm plenty surprised a lot too.
Clif
Jimmy Bruno
D.Onstenk
I wish I could say that too. I don't dig GB especially because his
collective output contains so much muzak, syrup and kitsch. He even looks
plastic physically these days. I'm no big fan of his singing either. He has
a great voive but to me there's too much syrup in it, especially on ballads.
Sure his playing is always super but that doesn't help me much if I cannot
stand the music. I hardly ever put a Benson CD in my player. So forgive me
for not thinking he is the greatest musician in the world. I listen to
music, not to individual playing or super right hands.
Apart from the album "Giblet Gravy" (1968) I have hardly heard a Benson
album that I really dug. I heard an album with a baritone sax player once
that was awesome too. Forgot the title. Is that one still available?
Any suggestions of true bop albums by Benson? No singing, funk or love songs
please.
#####
"Richard Bornman" <richard...@ozemail.com.au> schreef in bericht
news:b7tv2t$4bfah$1...@ID-173106.news.dfncis.de...
Jurupari
>that was awesome too. Forgot the title. Is that one still available?
there are two that I know of with Ronnie Cuber on bari and Lonnie Smith on B3.
It's Uptown and I think the other was called The Benson Cookbook.
I just heard Ronnie Cuber on the radio the other day doing Seven Steps To
Heaven. He's a really fine player too. you're stuck with a short vocal on
Summertime on the first one, and maybe another on the other one but it's mostly
guitar stuff - sort of third stream on a couple of things but some playing.
There's a live session that has a bunch of different packages that he did with
Mickey Tucker and Leroy Vinnegar, I think it was, and I don't recall the
drummer. I don't know how many songs he did on that release, but the package I
had had two - All the Things and a blues. Mickey had a killer Invitation, but
GB wasn't on it.
Clif
Jurupari
thank you back for the listening experience - they like some of your more warp
speed stuff on the local radio station - you and Joey DeFrancesco are like a
technicolor blur together!
Clif
Richard Bornman
"D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> wrote :
> Apart from the album "Giblet Gravy" (1968) I have hardly heard a Benson
> album that I really dug. I heard an album with a baritone sax player once
> that was awesome too. Forgot the title. Is that one still available?
>
> Any suggestions of true bop albums by Benson? No singing, funk or love
songs
> please.
>
> #####
Dick here are some suggestions:
1. Live at Carnegie Hall
2. Freddie Hubbard: First Light, Sky Dive, Straight Life
3. Stanley Turrentine: Sugar, Straight Ahead
4. Jimmy Smith: The Boss, Off the Top
5. McGriff/Crawford: Soul Survivors
6. Lou Donaldson: Midnight Creeper, Aligator Bogaloo
These are a few, but here is the best discog for GB I have seen:
http://www.aaron-richard.com/discogeorge.htm
Richard
Jimmy Bruno
it to Joey too
paul asbell
>
>Apart from the album "Giblet Gravy" (1968) I have hardly heard a Benson
>album that I really dug.
>
was more interested in blues than jazz.
>I heard an album with a baritone sax player once
>that was awesome too. Forgot the title. Is that one still available?
>
I'll bet you're thinking of "Cookbook"... at least, that's what it was
INITIALLY called. Bari player was Ronnie Cuber, and I believe organ
player was Lonnie Smith.
I don't know if it's still available under THAT title, but i bet it
would be somewhere... possibly under ANOTHER title.
Unfortunately, the best way to "see the light" w/ george is to hear him
in an occasional cutting contest w/ one of the younger cats in NYC clubs.
>
>
>
--
Best regards
Paul
danstearns
and if he did nothing other than Chico Hamilton and the Burton Quartet
I think he'd be a legitimate hall of famer.
Yeah, Benson's got a few licks like that, and to me his best is kind
of like Parker sans all the innovative, world-altering components. To
me he's just so much on top of the music and so clean (for lack of a
better word) that his best playing has a brightness that makes his
contributions seem to stand head and shoulders above those he's
playing with--much like Parker.
But to me his time and tone ain't anywhere near as interesting or
idiosyncratic as other guys who had amazing tone and a super solid
sense of time (like Tatum or Parker for instance). But he was a
guitarist whose horizontal bop chops had the bright, virtuostic
iridescence of Bird, and not too many--if any--can claim that.
Dan Stearns
guitarist-composer-microtonalist:
http://www.zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
"Richard Bornman" <richard...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:<b7sjpu$41j88$1...@ID-173106.news.dfncis.de>...
D.Onstenk
#####
Bob R
d.on...@chello.nl wrote on 4/21/03 6:02 AM:
> Yeah, it was the one with Ronnie Cuber. Are they available on CD?
I know that "Cookbook" is available on CD; not sure about "Uptown".
-- Bob Russell
"Hey, just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!"
(Homer Simpson)
Rick Stone
> I've seen the Assad's, David Russel, LA Guitar Quartet,....etc. They're all
> great. But it can still get boring. (I have to say that I really don't
> care for Fernandez playing Bach by the way).
>
> I have a masters in jazz studies with a minor in classical guitar. That
> still doesn't make it less "boring" for my wife or other folk who don't know
> the repretoire or understand the technical aspects of what's going on.
You keep talking about the "technical" aspects of the music and I think that's
kind of the problem. The layman shouldn't have to know ANYTHING about those
aspects of any music in order to enjoy the music. It's more a matter of people
having a "frame of reference" to hear the music in. With what's happened to
music in the school systems and the majority of pop music over the past 40 years,
the average person doesn't have a good grasp of the even the most basic aspects
of melody and form, so when they're confronted with anything more complex that
the nursery rhyme simplicity found in most pop songs, they just don't "get" it.
I remember having a conversation about Charlie Parker with a classical musician
once and he said something like "there's no melody." Now if you've spent any
amount of time listening to Bird, you know that it's pretty much nothing but
melody, but it's strung together in such a way and moves so fast that there are
people (even very intelligent people) who just don't get it. For bebop to make
sense you have to know the song being played on well enough to hear the chord
changes and the form without losing your place (that means you probably have to
have spent a good deal of time listening to a lot of pre-bebop music from the
thirties and early forties). Likewise you need to have listened to enough jazz
from a given period to know the melodic vocabulary employed by the players in a
given style. Some knowledge of forms of the conventions of the idiom (intros,
head, solos, trading fours, etc.) is helpful but not entirely necessary (any
sufficiently observant listener will figure all this out on their own after a
while).
But in terms of a non-musician (or even a musician) listener to appreciate a
players "chops," I just don't think it works that way (except maybe in adolescent
boys). It's got a lot more to do with the "mood" they set up with their playing
and the story that they tell. The music has to give someone a feeling that they
want to come back to, or you just haven't reached them. If it does that, they'll
spend a lifetime listening and they'll learn about all the other stuff.
_______________________________________
\__ Rick Stone _____________________________
\__ guitarist/composer/teacher _________________
\__ email: jaz...@inch.com _________ ______________
\__ Check out the Rick Stone Quartet "Far East" _______
\__ with Kenny Barron at: http://www.rickstonemusic.com ___
Dan Adler
> But in terms of a non-musician (or even a musician) listener to appreciate a
Rick,
I agree with everything you say, but the reality of the scene today,
with so many great players around is that when you go see someone
"famous" you fully expect to be blown away by their virtuosity.
Robert Firestone
Rick,
I'd love to hear your audio samples but it doesn't seem to be working- any ideas?
Robert
thomas
>
> And I remember seeing Benson on "Midnight Special" one night
> back in the 70s, and Glen Campbell smoked him big time.
And Tanya Tucker smoked Glen Campbell big time.
Jurupari
hee hee...weren't He and Mac Davis husbands-in-law at one time?
Clif
Rick Stone
I don't know Dan, I go to the Vanguard to see Jim Hall and I see New York's best
guitarists all there digging him, and Jim is anything BUT a virtuoso, just beautiful
tunes, arrangements, chords and lines, thoughtfully presented. That said, he and Peter
Bernstein (another decidedly non-virtuosoplayer) are generally the two most
consistently satisfying guitarists to listen to around here. I dig Pat Martino too,
but not really because of his speed but rather the "vibe" that he puts across.
Rick Stone
> Rick,
> I'd love to hear your audio samples but it doesn't seem to be working- any ideas?
> Robert
Rob,
I'll have to look into it. I haven't done any updates on the site in a long while (I'm
working 7 nights a week and most days since September). The sound-clips were linked to
the ones on Loudeye that puts all those kiosks in the Tower Records stores, etc. (it
used to be Phonolog, then Enso, then Discover Music, now Loudeye).
Ah, I just checked the soundclips on the Tower Records site and they work fine (looks
like they're pulling them from the Muze database). Try this link:
http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1181292&cc=USD
Jeff Seigle
<snip>
> About this classical guitar thing, I think that one reason why classical
> much an "inbred" instrument as far as the repretoire and style is concerned.
> My wife used to be bored to tears when I used to drag her to classical
> if So-and-so's tremelo was better articulated than Whats-his-names, all the
> non guitarists just don't give a shit.
<snip>
I'm not writing this to pick on Chris but to point out something that
happens to me and every other musician I know. For years and years
when I listened to music, I tended to listen to the instrument and the
technique. It took a long time for me to learn to listen to the
MUSIC. You have to kind of just let the music take over and reach
you, and suddenly you find that you are no longer hearing vibrato and
is there squeeking and how the hell is he holding the pick, but you
actually feel what the artist is communicating. I turned on the radio
last week (DC station 89.3 plays a 4-hour guitar music show every
Sunday morning) and was hearing just one of the most beautiful
classical guitar pieces I've ever heard. It was just singing to me
like being injected directly into my heart. Now I can't tell you
anything about the player's technique or anything else. But I called
the station to find out who it was and it was Segovia. Well, I guess
that's why he was so great.
BTW I'm a jazz player but I have tickets to hear Jason Vieaux this
Saturday and I have never been looking forward to a classical recital
this much.
Jeff Seigle
>
> And I remember seeing Benson on "Midnight Special" one night
> back in the 70s, and Glen Campbell smoked him big time.
>
LOL!! I remember watching that, I must have been about 17. I can't
believe anyone else remembers it. Although I can't agree that Glen
Campbell smoked GB, I must say that my jaw dropped watching Glen play
after all that I knew about him was "Witchitaw Lineman" and "By The
Time I Get To Phoenix" and his plastic hair. He was a hot player.
Jeff Seigle
<snip>
> Pat Martino's creativity on "Impressions" and the fast minor blues at
> the end of Consciousness (I'm too lazy to look up the name) are also
> mileposts of creativity at high speeds. So, I think he's way up there,
> though I agree that he's not number one in raw finger-wiggle speed.
>
> -Dan
> http://danadler.com
Dan, I was going to write a post but this took the words right out of
my mouth. (The tune is "On The Stairs", one of my favorites, I didn't
have to look it up :)
The way Martino plays is clean, confident, and maybe not the fastest
but he develops long ideas without "taking a breath" playing fairly
fast.
BTW I'm surprised no one has mentioned Jack Wilkins in this thread.
Bob R
jeff....@cox.net wrote on 4/24/03 3:56 PM:
I saw that one too! It was my impression that Glen came out on top that
time, but I was much younger then; I don't really trust that impression now.
I do remember George doing a double-take when Glen started soloing!
-- Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD, "Watch This!", available at:
http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
Don & Heidi
"Robert Firestone" <rof...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6fae554a.03041...@posting.google.com...
I played it until I found it boring. I don't find Bach's lute suites
astonishing, I find them to be among his minor works although
I am fond of the cello suite in c minor and it's lute cou
Rick Del Savio
Rock/pop
songs, (Lennons "Dream #9" comes to mind) because for me it'll lose it's
magic.
I'd prefer to just let the music 'wash' over me. It's not always easy to
do. Meaning, as a musician my tendency, especially if it's a tune I just
flat-out love, is to dissect the thing to see how it works.
--
Jazz Guitarist/Educator
Check out lessons and original music @
http://www.rickdelsavio.com
Don & Heidi
"Don & Heidi" <hsa...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:na_pa.3159$EZ5.1...@news1.epix.net...
unterpart which is usually found in A minor for guitar. The violin
works are much more substantial and detailed. My quibble with
a statement like 'try a Bach sarabande and tell me it's boring' is
that many of these things are more trifles than not, in spite of the
tempo and slow 3 time which can certainly come out sounding
majestic and substantial. Still there's a lot about harmony and
counterpoint to be learned from almost any Bach piece.
It's just that the lute suites are not astonishing and sarabandes
are not particularly challenging of themselves. Back to jazz sort of...
I'm now working on moving bass line/chord melody version of
a Sarabande in B minor from violin works, expanding it some to
give room for improv. If it doesn't fall by the wayside given that
I'm not really playing out at present it could become a fun piece.
dj
Don & Heidi
"Bob R" <br...@reality.net> wrote in message
news:BACDBC1F.17F55%br...@reality.net...
> in article 3ef3b077.03042...@posting.google.com, Jeff Seigle at
> jeff....@cox.net wrote on 4/24/03 3:56 PM:
>
> > sc...@netcarrier.com (Steve Carl) wrote in message
> > news:<138cfea3.03041...@posting.google.com>...
> >>
> >> And I remember seeing Benson on "Midnight Special" one night
> >> back in the 70s, and Glen Campbell smoked him big time.
> >>
> >> Steve Carl
> >
> > LOL!! I remember watching that, I must have been about 17. I can't
> > believe anyone else remembers it. Although I can't agree that Glen
> > Campbell smoked GB, I must say that my jaw dropped watching Glen play
> > after all that I knew about him was "Witchitaw Lineman" and "By The
> > Time I Get To Phoenix" and his plastic hair. He was a hot player.
>
> I saw that one too! It was my impression that Glen came out on top that
> time, but I was much younger then; I don't really trust that impression
now.
> I do remember George doing a double-take when Glen started soloing!
I just read a Carlos Santana interview in GP from about 1977 I think.
He was talking about just this, that GC smoked GB on Midnight
Special. He then went on to talk at length about how he like GB
now that he was playing more to audiences instead of for himself.
dj
danstearns
ago and he sounded better than ever too... funky guitar, very
interesting tone and note choices. He sounded like a consummate pro,
but surprisingly fresh and unlike anyone else too. I was very, very
impressed.
As far as guitarists popping up in places you wouldn't expect to see
them goes, I remember seeing DiMeola and the Dixie Dregs on Don
Kirshner's Rock Concert many moons ago... weird. Does anybody else
remember this?
Hey BTW, I went and listened to your CD excerpts a couple of days ago
and wanted to let you know that I enjoyed them; nice contemporary
fusion guitar. Are you familiar with some of the newer guys in that
genre like Garsed and Helmerich?
Dan Stearns
guitarist-composer-microtonalist:
http://www.zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
Bob R <br...@reality.net> wrote in message news:<BACDBC1F.17F55%br...@reality.net>...
Bob R
daniel_anth...@yahoo.com wrote on 4/24/03 11:56 PM:
> Yeah, I saw Glen playing an instrumental on the tube a couple of years
> ago and he sounded better than ever too... funky guitar, very
> interesting tone and note choices. He sounded like a consummate pro,
> but surprisingly fresh and unlike anyone else too. I was very, very
> impressed.
>
> As far as guitarists popping up in places you wouldn't expect to see
> them goes, I remember seeing DiMeola and the Dixie Dregs on Don
> Kirshner's Rock Concert many moons ago... weird. Does anybody else
> remember this?
>
> Hey BTW, I went and listened to your CD excerpts a couple of days ago
> and wanted to let you know that I enjoyed them; nice contemporary
> fusion guitar. Are you familiar with some of the newer guys in that
> genre like Garsed and Helmerich?
>
> Dan Stearns
> guitarist-composer-microtonalist:
> http://www.zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
Thanks, Dan. I have heard a little of Garsed and Helmerich, but not much. I
listen to lots of different kinds of music (jazz, British Invasion pop, West
African, reggae, Bjork, ad infinitum) but not that much fusion. I did have a
major Dregs phase when I was in my twenties! I love Steve Morse's playing.
Somehow all that stuff "co-mangles" and comes out as my tunes.
Remember the Dregs on American Bandstand?
Dick Clark: "What are you and the boys going to play for us, Steve?"
Morse: "We'd like to play a little something we call 'Bloodsucking Leeches',
Dick."
Mark Bratcher
That being said, classical guitar has quite a lot of technique in it
if you go see/hear other than the standard true classical period pieces.
A late 19th century composer (I forget which one) referred to the classical
guitar as "an orchestra in a box" he was so impressed with its expressive
capabilities and tonal qualities. There is a lot of exciting classical
guitar music out there.
An opposite case to the above story: my wife was totally bored with
guitar until she heard classical. Then she loved the guitar. I guess
it's a matter of musical taste to some extent. Some people are just
totally bored with classical music altogether because they don't relate
to that form of musical expression.
So it does really seem to boil down to it being about the music and
its expression, not the technique.
Sideways Jaye
> Remember the Dregs on American Bandstand?
> Dick Clark: "What are you and the boys going to play for us, Steve?"
> Morse: "We'd like to play a little something we call 'Bloodsucking Leeches',
> Dick."
Oh yeah, that's the tune that was inspired by club owners, right?
w sharratt
jazz.
Using those arguments one could say jazz is really boring compared to
"smooth jazz" which is more popular, has more airplay, sells more records
etc.
I think both jazz and classical, in fact any style or genre has its good and
its deathly boring players and performances. Trick is to get the good ones
surely.
Mr.Will
"Jeff Seigle" <jeff....@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3ef3b077.03042...@posting.google.com...
Steve Carl
> BTW I'm a jazz player but I have tickets to hear Jason Vieaux this
> Saturday and I have never been looking forward to a classical recital
> this much.
Enjoy the Vieaux recital. I've seen him many times, and monitored
several of his master classes. He's a great player, and gets a
wonderful, warm tone on the instrument.
Steve Carl
Max Leggett
No. I wrote that song. It was for my mother in law.
Greg M. Silverman
And he does a great arrangement of "Letter from Home" too.
gms--
Eric
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:57:10 -0400, "soapy10999"
> <soapy...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> <HN2cnZkwsqU...@comcast.com> :
>
> >This is all ridiculous conversation but I thought I might add some names to
> >the needed speeding tickets recipients
>
> well then we have to mention Bruce Foreman. He has that ability which
> Dan talked about regarding Joe Pass to be inventive with complete
> command at blazing speed.
>
>
> _________________________________________
> Kevin Van Sant
> jazz guitar
>
> http://www.kevinvansant.com
> to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
>
> Alternate site for recent soundclips
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
I agree this is a ridiculous conversation, but I caught Dom Minasi at
CBGB'S in New York a few times, and this guy has more speed than all
of the above mentioned and he is relentless in his attack and every
note, double stop and octave is clear as a bell and the energy goes
way beyond any guitar trio performing today. His music is not
everyones cup of tea and I can see where it can be sometimes hard to
take, but he is an amazing guitarist to watch and listen to.
Eric, NYC
Richard
> I agree this is a ridiculous conversation, but I caught Dom Minasi at
> CBGB'S in New York a few times, and this guy has more speed than all
> of the above mentioned and he is relentless in his attack and every
> note, double stop and octave is clear as a bell and the energy goes
> way beyond any guitar trio performing today. His music is not
> everyones cup of tea and I can see where it can be sometimes hard to
> take, but he is an amazing guitarist to watch and listen to.
Thanks for mentioning this--I'll look for him.
In the meantime: http://www.domminasi.com
Speaking of relentless attack and flawless execution, you can't forget
about Jack Zucker (JAZ). I've always thought that if he lived in NYC
rather than Ohio, he'd be a household name among guitarists.
--
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