Standards I Can't Stand
kagejs
I was thinking about standards I just don't really like. Not for the
sake of causing controversy or starting a huge flame war, I thought I
would mention a few I just don't dig.
St. Thomas
The Girl From Ipanema
Song For My Father
Josh
Greg Clayton
gc
--
www.gregclayton.com
The official website of Jazz Guitarist Greg Clayton
"kagejs" <w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1169583795.2...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
jim
Jim
ott...@hotmail.com
Sunny.
Bg
kagejs
add Cantaloupe Island as well.
Josh
ottg...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Watermelon Man,
> Sunny.
>
> Bg
Phil
slowjammerukdog
Phil wrote:
> I've never liked "Have You Met Miss Jones"
>
Sir Jones?"
Peter
Rick Ross
always nice to throw in a crowd pleaser in between the pouts when u reject
Little Wing and Brown Eyed Girl...i guess it's time for the "Tunes the Crowd
Likes and Recognizes" thread :)
"kagejs" <w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1169583795.2...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
ott...@hotmail.com
>
> St. Thomas
> The Girl From Ipanema
> Song For My Father
>
>
> Josh
Josh, I just noticed that all of the tunes you dislike are Straight 8,
Latin type tunes.
The reason I don't like tunes like Watermelon Man, is only because at
some point I had to play them way too often, I don't actually dislike
it as much as resent having to play it too often which was the case for
some of those tunes 10 years ago or so. At some point at that time when
I was asked if I knew it, I said No. :-)
Bg
Norm K
PLEASE not Autumn Leaves again. I'm begging you...
Norm
Peter Grey
> I've never liked "Have You Met Miss Jones"
>
> kagejs wrote:
>> Oh, the irony of the subject line. :-P
>>
>>
>> St. Thomas
>> The Girl From Ipanema
>> Song For My Father
I also can't stand "HYMMJ", but I confess I actually like Ipanema...
kagejs
Josh
P.S. Diggin' the new newsgroup layout. Nice job, Google!
Phil
Autumn Leaves, so that when I play it I can amuse myself while thinking
of them:
Those Autumn Leaves
Up in the trees
They make me sneeze
They make me wheeze
etc.
On Jan 23, 5:17 pm, "Norm K" <thekari...@verizon.net> wrote:
> kagejs wrote:
> > Oh, the irony of the subject line. :-P
>
> > I was thinking about standards I just don't really like. Not for the
> > sake of causing controversy or starting a huge flame war, I thought I
> > would mention a few I just don't dig.
>
> > St. Thomas
> > The Girl From Ipanema
> > Song For My Father
>
> > JoshPLEASE not Autumn Leaves again. I'm begging you...
>
> Norm
Pt
Autumn leaves.
Days of wine and roses.
April in Paris.
Autumn in NY.
Mack the knife.
Moon river.
Over the rainbow.
Sunny.
Tenderly.
What a difference a day makes
Pt
invisaman75
On a clear day! maybe because it such a chick singer tune!
On Jan 23, 3:23 pm, "Pt" <pea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 2:23 pm, "kagejs" <w.sag...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Oh, the irony of the subject line. :-P
>
> > I was thinking about standards I just don't really like. Not for the
> > sake of causing controversy or starting a huge flame war, I thought I
> > would mention a few I just don't dig.
>
> > St. Thomas
> > The Girl From Ipanema
> > Song For My Father
>
> > JoshAutumn leaves.
Nate Najar
tired of alone together- it's such a great tune but I'm getting tired
of tenor players calling it at jams and then playing 32 choruses on it!
Nate
335p...@gmail.com
I wince with pain when I hear myself trying to improvise on that
bridge. That's a challenging progression, for me anyway.
tomb...@jhu.edu
It really sucks on my computer. The window in which posts appear is
tiny, and I can find no way to resize it.
Kevin Van Sant
in message <1169583795.2...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> :
very few that I can't stand. Lady is a Tramp is one. There are
probably a few others I'd veto but I actually can't think of any right
now.
Sure there are many which are overplayed, but even those like Autumn
Leaves or Ipanema are really beautiful tunes that are fun to play. I
get sick of hearing people do the same thing with the same tunes but
we can't blame the songs for that.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
http://www.kevinvansant.com
CDs, videos, mp3s, gigs, pics, lessons, info.
nul...@gmail.com
want to sing that
SWAY
and the one i really really hate to play..... FEVER (esp with singers)
On Jan 24, 1:46 pm, Kevin Van Sant <kvans...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2007 12:23:15 -0800, "kagejs" <w.sag...@comcast.net> wrote
> in message <1169583795.277972.270...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> :
Jens Weisse
then he told me to work on it until I'd dig it.
Jens
kagejs
April In Paris
Josh
tom walls
nul...@gmail.com says...
>
> yeah yeah.... Moon river.... i hate to play that.... singers always
> want to sing that
>
>
list so far.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
Kevin Van Sant
you wrote:
>In article <1169623354....@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
>nul...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> yeah yeah.... Moon river.... i hate to play that.... singers always
>> want to sing that
>>
>>
>Good call! I hate it. I like or am neutral about everything else on this
>list so far.
www.onestopjazz.com/temp/MoonRiver.mp3
tom walls
kvan...@pobox.com says...
with Sonny Clark. Okay, withdrawn! I still hate Andy Williams, though.
pmfan57
On Jan 24, 10:32 am, tom walls <t...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> In article <vruer29dfci79n8901jri46m0r788e5...@4ax.com>,
> kvans...@pobox.com says...
>
> > On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:47:53 -0500, in rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> > you wrote:
>
> > >In article <1169623354.550621.89...@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> > >nulg...@gmail.com says...
>
> > >> yeah yeah.... Moon river.... i hate to play that.... singers always
> > >> want to sing that
>
> > >Good call! I hate it. I like or am neutral about everything else on this
> > >list so far.
>
> >www.onestopjazz.com/temp/MoonRiver.mp3
>
> > _________________________________________
> > Kevin Van Sant
>
> >http://www.kevinvansant.com
> > CDs, videos, mp3s, gigs, pics, lessons, info.Well, now that you mention it, Grant Green does an asskicking version
> with Sonny Clark. Okay, withdrawn! I still hate Andy Williams, though.
> --
> Tom Walls
> the guy at the Temple of Zeus
That song is so beautiful. I just saw Breakfast at Tiffany's the other
night. They have a bossa version, a swing version, and Audrey Hepburn
singing it with the guitar, which is pretty amazing. I can see how you
might not like Andy Williams(, although I like his version too).
aking...@robtv.com
more time.....
Jon G
why not like a tune? it's just a melody and chords, no?
i'll bet for every tune listed, people like tunes with virtually the
same changes.
we're not talking about lyrics here, right?
335p...@gmail.com
On Jan 24, 8:47 am, tom walls <t...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> In article <1169623354.550621.89...@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> nulg...@gmail.com says...
>
> > yeah yeah.... Moon river.... i hate to play that.... singers always
> > want to sing thatGood call! I hate it.
Larry Coryell recorded a nice solo guitar version of Moon River which
sort of changed my mind about the tune. Prior to that I was neutral
about it, but now I like the tune even when it's done by singers that I
don't care for. I think it's because it's a Mancini tune and that guy
was a true heavyweight.
tomb...@jhu.edu
see why someone might get tired of a piece like Song for My Father. It
is what it is, and there is only so much you can do with it. As good as
it is, you can have enough and then too much, just because the range of
variations are limited before you turn it into something it shouldn't
be.
But how can anyone ever get tired of Autumn Leaves or some of the other
fabulous standards mentioned above? You can play these things a million
different ways. Change the feel, change the time signature, change
keys, change register, change articulation, change phrasing. If you
don't like a great old standard like Autumn Leaves, that says more
about your lack of imagination and musicianship than it does about the
song.
Moon River is an incredible achievement by Hank Mancini, who was a
monster. I wonder if the guys who don't like it have ever tried to make
a solo guitar arrangement of it? Toninho Horta will bring tears to your
eyes with this one. Here is my tip: For solo guitar, play it in B
Major. It kills in B. Having the open E string for your subdominant
bass really works well for this number.
Sean
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:47:53 -0500, in rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> you wrote:
>
>> In article <1169623354....@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
>> nul...@gmail.com says...
>>> yeah yeah.... Moon river.... i hate to play that.... singers always
>>> want to sing that
>>>
>>>
>> Good call! I hate it. I like or am neutral about everything else on this
>> list so far.
>
>
>
>
>
> www.onestopjazz.com/temp/MoonRiver.mp3
>
Thanks for that. It has always been one of my favourite tunes, and that
version supports that feeling.
We went to a New Years party once where each couple had to perform
something: stand up, magic trick, whatever. I played Moon River and my
wife sang it. We also did Akatombo, which some Japanophiles in here
might know. I almost cried during both songs.
Those of you who hate Moon River, accompany your main squeeze while she
sings it and tell me it isn't a great tune.
Sean
> In article <1169623354....@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> nul...@gmail.com says...
>> yeah yeah.... Moon river.... i hate to play that.... singers always
>> want to sing that
>>
>>
> Good call! I hate it. I like or am neutral about everything else on this
> list so far.
Hey! You dissin' Andy Williams? He's the bomb!
Sean
> Well, now that you mention it, Grant Green does an asskicking version
> with Sonny Clark. Okay, withdrawn! I still hate Andy Williams, though.
Hmm. Ok, how do you feel about Tom Jones? Be careful, I might have to
come over there and kick your ass if you answer wrong.
Sean
>
> That song is so beautiful. I just saw Breakfast at Tiffany's the other
> night. They have a bossa version, a swing version, and Audrey Hepburn
> singing it with the guitar, which is pretty amazing. I can see how you
> might not like Andy Williams(, although I like his version too).
>
Ok, that heals the rift caused by the Mahavishnu Schism.
Sean
> what an interesting concept.
> why not like a tune? it's just a melody and chords, no?
> i'll bet for every tune listed, people like tunes with virtually the
> same changes.
> we're not talking about lyrics here, right?
Hell of a point.
Chickenhead
<tomb...@jhu.edu> wrote in message
news:1169679922.6...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
vintagearchtop.com
tom walls
> Those of you who hate Moon River, accompany your main squeeze while she
> sings it and tell me it isn't a great tune.
>
>
Red-nosed Reindeer".
tom walls
tom walls
Mark Kleinhaut
On Jan 23, 3:23 pm, "kagejs" <w.sag...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Oh, the irony of the subject line. :-P
>
> I was thinking about standards I just don't really like. Not for the
> sake of causing controversy or starting a huge flame war, I thought I
> would mention a few I just don't dig.
>
Hate is a pretty strong word, but the only reason I can think of even
disliking a tune is because it brings out some inherit weakness in
one's own musicianship. In the hands of a master (think Wes or Jarret)
even a trite ditty can become an incredible journey, so when we fail to
make a tune rise up off the written page, enlivened with personality,
story and soul, is it the fault of the tune or the fault of ourselves?
Some of the hated tunes mentioned here are tunes that have provided me
with a lifetime of continuously evolving musical wonder- I barely
imagine a musical life without them. To the issue of tunes that are
overplayed, well, then either don't play them or find new ways to play
them, but hate them? C'mon, that's silly.
Keith Freeman
itself.
Dancing on the Ceiling. Here it's definitely the god-awful lyrics: 'Now I
love my ceiling more | Because it is a dancing floor' - puke!
-Keith
Portable Changes, tips etc. at http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
e-mail only to keith DOT freeman AT wanadoo DOT nl
Keith Freeman
> disliking a tune is because it brings out some inherit weakness in
> one's own musicianship.
nothing to do with musicianship, just emotion.
tom walls
Freeman <smtp.cablewanadoo.nl> says...
> > Hate is a pretty strong word, but the only reason I can think of even
> > disliking a tune is because it brings out some inherit weakness in
> > one's own musicianship.
> If I dislike a tune, it's because I just don't like the sound of it. Has
> nothing to do with musicianship, just emotion.
>
> -Keith
>
consistency from myself. It's a great relief.
Mark Kleinhaut
On Jan 25, 9:51 am, Keith Freeman <smtp.cablewanadoo.nl> wrote:
> > Hate is a pretty strong word, but the only reason I can think of even
> > disliking a tune is because it brings out some inherit weakness in
> > one's own musicianship.If I dislike a tune, it's because I just don't like the sound of it. Has
> nothing to do with musicianship, just emotion.
>
> -Keith
>
>
Sorry, this makes no sense to me. The tune has no sound (in a jazz
context) until a jazz musician brings it to life. The beauty of jazz
is that you can take any tune and morph it into something you DO LIKE
the sound of, because it's on you as an improviser to create something.
To me, this is perhaps the single most compelling aspect of jazz. The
"tune" is merely a jumping off point and the composer's intent is
secondary to the muse of the moment. I stand by my earlier assertion
that it is only by failure of musicianship, or perhaps I should say
"jazzmusicianship" that a tune is unworkable. In the theatrical idiom
it has been said "there are no bad roles, only bad actors".
ken
> > -KeithSorry, this makes no sense to me. The tune has no sound (in a jazz
> context) until a jazz musician brings it to life.
That's a different issue. The thread is about tunes people hate. You
can hate a tune and still have someone make great music out of it.
There are standards I hate, even when Ella or Sinatra does them. I
don't think it's a failure on my part. I just don't like some tunes.
I hate some too.
Ken
Mark Kleinhaut
On Jan 25, 10:42 am, "ken" <kubok...@yahoo.com> wrote:
You
> can hate a tune and still have someone make great music out of it.
>
How can you hate something from which great music comes? We must be on
different semantic planets here, because that statement defies logic.
> There are standards I hate, even when Ella or Sinatra does them. I
> don't think it's a failure on my part. I just don't like some tunes.
> I hate some too.
>
Again, I think this is completely turned around. There are many
performances I despise, some by major revered names, but hating a tune
makes about as much sense to me as hating a scale or a chord voicing.
They're just raw material. How can you hate a lump of clay?
ken
> different semantic planets here, because that statement defies logic.
No, not really. Metheny can improvise on a vamp based on the tune
"oops, I did it again" and sound great. But you know, I will still
tell you that I hate that tune.
You are confusing the tune and what someone does with it. We are
talking about tunes here (I think. I haven't read the whole thread)...
> > I hate some too.Again, I think this is completely turned around. There are many
> performances I despise, some by major revered names, but hating a tune
> makes about as much sense to me as hating a scale or a chord voicing.
> They're just raw material. How can you hate a lump of clay?
But that's what we're discussing here, I think. People are discussing
the tune. Not what gets done with it.
You can actually hate a lump of clay. Some artists don't like oil on
canvas so don't do it. Some artists have colors they hate so they
don't use it.
But that's an extreme example. Tunes are much more a product than
chords and scales. They are raw material for jazz improvisors, but
they are more 'product' than 'raw material' to others.
I see your point and it's an interesting one.
But I can still say, having thought it over, that there are still tunes
that I like, don't care for, and that I hate.
And there are other categories like you say; performances/versions of
tunes that I like, don't care for, and hate.
Ken
Keith Freeman
> context) until a jazz musician brings it to life.
has a sound.
The fact that Kenny Burrell plays a version of Ain't Misbehavin' that I
find enjoyable still doesn't induce me to like the original song.
ken
> I agree with you Ken, there are some tunes that I just don't like. I
> don't get motivated to play them because there's too many tunes I do
> like and I'd rather not spend my time polishing a turd. I can
> understand where Mark is coming from, but I still dislike certain tunes
> and have no interest in transforming them.
I think Mark's attitude is typical in jazz. Tunes are just launching
pads for blowing. That's what his attitude sort of boils down to. It's
not about the tune, the composer or the lyrics. It's about the jazz
musician blowing over the changes. In that regard, I agree with Mark.
There's really not that much difference between a lot of these standard
tunes (harmonically/melodically speaking).
If you take the older-fashioned approach though, that can't be. You
really have to like the tune and appreciate it to get inside of it and
do it justice. (learn the lyrics etc...).
That's where I have a big problem too, the lyrics. I just happen to
think (this is just a personal opinion) that so many of those lyrics
are just so stupid that sometimes I can't stand to hear the tune
anymore once I learned the lyrics!
I know, I'm just not destined to be a great jazz musician... But
that's OK...
Ken
Rick Del Savio
On Jan 24, 7:47 am, "kagejs" <w.sag...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I thought of another one I can't stand:
>
> April In Paris
>
> Josh Hi. I'm with you on 'April'. I've always felt like they were drilling those triplets into my brain. Whenever I hear that tune I'm yelling "Ok Ok!! I got it. Triplets. I got it". :) Rick
j...@isu.edu
> You can actually hate a lump of clay.
That little lump of shit sitting on the bookshelf in my office is
starting to piss me off.
da...@redstoneaudio.com
There are still some tunes that I don't like, but so many that I grew
to like after I found something interesting to do with them. Like
maybe viewing the tonal centers differently.
dave
Mark Kleinhaut
On Jan 25, 12:08 pm, "ken" <kubok...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That's where I have a big problem too, the lyrics. I just happen to
> think (this is just a personal opinion) that so many of those lyrics
> are just so stupid that sometimes I can't stand to hear the tune
> anymore once I learned the lyrics!
>
I make it a point to NEVER listen to or pay any attention to lyrics.
I've done countless gigs with singers where I've completely filtered
then out:) I know some cats say you've got to get inside the lyrics to
fully appreciate a tune, but to that I say pfhefffff.
tom walls
markkl...@hotmail.com says...
> but to that I say pfhefffff.
>
knucmo
On 23 Jan, 20:37, "Greg Clayton" <gregclay...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> The only Standard of the 3 you list is Ipanema sort of
> gc
>
> --www.gregclayton.com
> The official website of Jazz Guitarist Greg Clayton"kagejs" <w.sag...@comcast.net> wrote in messagenews:1169583795.2...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Oh, the irony of the subject line. :-P
>
> > I was thinking about standards I just don't really like. Not for the
> > sake of causing controversy or starting a huge flame war, I thought I
> > would mention a few I just don't dig.
>
> > St. Thomas
> > The Girl From Ipanema
> > Song For My Father
>
> > Josh
I agree with Girl from Ipanema - that whole song annoys me. But St.
Thomas I love although I've heard some lame versions of it. Song For
My Father I'm indifferent towards really.
Sean
> In article <QJUth.183619$hn.123493@edtnps82>, se...@false.con says...
>> Those of you who hate Moon River, accompany your main squeeze while she
>> sings it and tell me it isn't a great tune.
>>
>>
> LOL! One day I must post the clip of Colette and I playing "Rudolph the
> Red-nosed Reindeer".
Sounds romantic. Is that her nickname for your little fellow?
Sean
I've been woodshedding Pretzel Logic and I plan to ask my band if they
want to tackle it. They'll make me sing it, I guess. Hope no one asks me
what the words mean. The main thing is that they scan, and you get to
shout "Oh yeah!" at one point, which is really fun. Meaningless or
impenetrable is better than stupid, I reckon.
I stepped up on the platform
The man gave me the news
He said, You must be joking son
Where did you get those shoes?
Where did you get those shoes?
Well, I've seen 'em on the TV, the movie show
They say the times are changing but I just don't know
These things are gone forever
Over a long time ago, oh yeah
ken
wrote:
>I make it a point to NEVER listen to or pay any attention to lyrics.
> I've done countless gigs with singers where I've completely filtered
> then out:) I know some cats say you've got to get inside the lyrics to
> fully appreciate a tune, but to that I say pfhefffff.
Smart move. Now I see why you don't hate any of the standards!
Ken
tom walls
>
> Sounds romantic. Is that her nickname for your little fellow?
>
>
Des Higgins
"Sean" <se...@false.con> wrote in message
news:aMcuh.189667$YV4.50840@edtnps89...
You just bright back a flood of memories as I mentally sang through that and
I especially enjoyed the "oh yeah" :-).
I actually really like those words; I always liked the silly/meaningless
David Bowie lines in some of his his songs (he looked a lot like Che
Guevara; drove a diesel van) or King Crimson (not the earliest stuff where
they tried to be deep; that was tacky) silly words. Hearing someone singing
gibberish is refreshing sometimes; you get to hear nice words and a nice
voice if the singer is good but don'y have to go yeuuuuuuuugh if someone
says that someone else has nice hair. Mark's idea to ignore words in
standards is neat.
Just thinking of the words of My Favourite Things is enough to make me
wretch (even when I was 7 and learning it in school) and yet that is one of
the most powerful jazz tunes I know.
Des
Sean
> In article <8Ecuh.189659$YV4.18779@edtnps89>, se...@false.con says...
>>
>> Sounds romantic. Is that her nickname for your little fellow?
>>
>>
> That would be "Orca".
Ha.
--
Whale oil beef hooked.
Sean
>
> Just thinking of the words of My Favourite Things is enough to make me
> wretch (even when I was 7 and learning it in school) and yet that is one of
> the most powerful jazz tunes I know.
>
> Des
They made you sing it too? We had to sing it in front of our parents.
But then again, I made a bunch of kids in my school rock band learn
Godzilla (Blue Oyster Cult) and they performed it in front of a crowd
of beaming parents. Same thing. Except the kids seemed to think the
tune was cool. (Even a grandmother came up afterwards to tell us how
much she liked that song.)