Little finger
jessele...@comcast.net
been watching several different "fast" players - both jazz and country
- and it seems like - some (not all) very, very, fast players, hardly
ever use the little finger. I'd be interested in hearing opinions from
this group. Does your little finger help - or hurt - in terms of
speed of course?
Jess
oasysco
I type like greased lightning with only 2 fingers - one per hand,
*but* I make alot of mistakes.
I suppose a one-fingered guitarist could play really, really fast, but
how well?
I use my pinky, but I'm a slow player and it 'aint the fault of my
pinky - it's the result of my inability to hear things fast. Even if I
cut off my pinky, I wouldn't get any faster.
That said, the fastest players in rock I've seen use their index and
3rd fingers most, but I think the most accomplished players use all
their fingers (not universally true).
Greg
Joey Goldstein
Django Reinhardt had only two normally working fingers on his left hand,
the first two. He had little or no control over fingers 3 and 4.
And he played pretty fast.
But I'll bet that he would have like to have been able to use fingers 3
and 4 as well.
A recent video posted here of Wes Montgomery showed him hardly ever
using his pinky for single note lines. I was surprised to see that.
You try playing without your pinky as an exercise, just to see what the
effect is.
But you'll probably want to know how to use it too.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/joeygoldstein
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
charles robinson
including Jack Wilkins, John McLaughlin, and Jimmy Bruno. I guess it all
depends on what works for you the best. Most of the guys I've heard who
were fast with just three were coming from a blues based jazz concept but
this doesn't mean that there aren't guys who are doing other things with
that approach.
Charlie
<jessele...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1191857553.6...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
theappoint...@gmail.com
Another wild guess..............you don't practice very much. Here's
an off-the-wall suggestion, take some damn lessons, stay home and
practice for a change.
If you're over 14 years old and playing with 3 fingers you're
either....
A) Django Reinhardt
B) Met with an unfortunate accident/birth defect
C) A FUCKIN' IDIOT !
I hope you're just young, in that case you've got plenty of time to
get it together, if not, you missed the boat, and you may want to
consider another hobby.
Gerry
Dang! This is the way the so many other guitar groups retain retain
their perpetual state of stench. Lots of noise, lots of bile and no
information.
--
///---
theappoint...@gmail.com
that.
Greger Hoel
> Let me take a wild guess.............you don't read music either.
> Another wild guess..............you don't practice very much. Here's
> an off-the-wall suggestion, take some damn lessons, stay home and
> practice for a change.
>
> If you're over 14 years old and playing with 3 fingers you're
> either....
>
> A) Django Reinhardt
>
> B) Met with an unfortunate accident/birth defect
>
> C) A FUCKIN' IDIOT !
In which category, of the above, would you place Wes Montgomery and
Jimi Hendrix?
--
Greger
"I can predict your clever-boy retorts, though I doubt you'll refrain."
- DougW
Derek
> > Let me take a wild guess.............you don't read music either.
> > Another wild guess..............you don't practice very much. Here's
> > an off-the-wall suggestion, take some damn lessons, stay home and
> > practice for a change.
>
> > If you're over 14 years old and playing with 3 fingers you're
> > either....
>
> > A) Django Reinhardt
>
> > B) Met with an unfortunate accident/birth defect
>
> > C) A FUCKIN' IDIOT !
Wow! Someone missed thier morning coffee. Is there no room for 3
fingered 14 year olds here to ask questions?
Mark Cleary
much as the rest. I learned to sight read from the beginning and I always
would reach for notes with my pinky. For me to not use it would take more
practice than I could put in right now. Oh I can play fast I suppose and at
times string together some lines but I can't sound like Wes and he used 3
most of time. Jimmy Bruno uses all 4 and of course he smokes. I think the
moral here is to simply use whatever makes your single lines most
interesting. I can't sound like Jimmy either but my take is if you have 4
fingers then use them all.
--
Mark Cleary makes music on the finest Jazz guitars.
http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
"oasysco" <wilder...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1191862584....@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
tomb...@jhu.edu
wrote:
> theappointmentset...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Let me take a wild guess.............you don't read music either.
> > Another wild guess..............you don't practice very much. Here's
> > an off-the-wall suggestion, take some damn lessons, stay home and
> > practice for a change.
>
> > If you're over 14 years old and playing with 3 fingers you're
> > either....
>
> > A) Django Reinhardt
>
> > B) Met with an unfortunate accident/birth defect
>
> > C) A FUCKIN' IDIOT !
>
> In which category, of the above, would you place Wes Montgomery and
> Jimi Hendrix?
We've had previous threads on happening three-finger players. Besides
the above, I seem to recall: Grant Green, Peter Bernstein, sometimes
Rodney Jones.
sg...@hotmail.com
Someone should ask him and other players who don't use their pinky why
they decided not to use it.
All those guys mentioned can play their shit perfectly without their
pinky, so they must see it as a negative factor in their playing.
I always spend up to a half hour in my practice routine trying to get
my 3rd and 4th fingers to work perfectly together.
Unfortunately, when I move the metronome up to 160 (16th notes),
things get pretty sloppy with my pinky, and I assume blowing at that
tempo is not going to go perfectly either.
At 160 (16th notes) I have problems with my pinky when I descend on
the G major scale in 2nd position (the one that begins with the pinky
on the 5th fret of the D string and goes up to the 3rd fret on the
high E string).
A player like Alan Holdsworth has an unbelievable pinky, and I know
I'll never play as fast as he can, but I'm not sure if that is what I
want, anyway.
The same thing with Al DiMeola and Linc Chamberlain.
jim
"Greger Hoel" <gre...@spameggssausageandspam.com> wrote in message
news:13gku29...@corp.supernews.com...
> theappoint...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Let me take a wild guess.............you don't read music either.
> > Another wild guess..............you don't practice very much. Here's
> > an off-the-wall suggestion, take some damn lessons, stay home and
> > practice for a change.
> >
> > If you're over 14 years old and playing with 3 fingers you're
> > either....
> >
> > A) Django Reinhardt
> >
> > B) Met with an unfortunate accident/birth defect
> >
> > C) A FUCKIN' IDIOT !
>
> In which category, of the above, would you place Wes Montgomery and
> Jimi Hendrix?
>
> --
> Greger
And Peter Bernstein, he must be a fuckin' idiot.
Jim
pmfan57
Well Benson plays that way too. He's none of the above. Some people
feel it gives a better feel because each note is played with a very
strong finger, or for other reasons. I think Holger said Rodney Jones
recommends that technique, at least for much of the time, but I could
be mis-remembering. You can use position shifting to get all the
notes you need. All that matters is the notes and and articulation,
not what fingers you use.
rpjazz...@gmail.com
fingers. He doesn't sound that fast, until you try to play his stuff.
He had excellent technique.
Django used two fingers for single notes, but I've read that he used a
lot of open strings and was therefore limited to certain keys.
However, he did it, he was fast and fluid.
I think which is faster depends on the line you're trying to play. If
you're reading a torrent of sixteenth notes written for horn, I bet
the pinkie is going to come in handy. But, if you're playing your own
well worn lines, practiced with three fingers, you'll probably be
unconsciously avoiding playing anything that requires the pinkie, and
it'll sound just as fast.
Also, whichever way you play, you'd probably get out of a rut by
trying it the other way.
Finally, I find that most speed problems are in the right hand anyway.
The big issue is whether you can move from one string to another
smoothly at high speed. For me, the solution is usually in position
shifts and pulloffs and has little to do with how many fingers I use.
Rick
Mark Guest
the pinky is especially weak. My left hand is not especially
challenged, but my right pinky is *not* to be relied on for timing.
But why do you want to play especially fast? Only the wanker
guitarists seem to care, and they are not usually very diplomatic with
their critical observations (Read on..)
All the best,
Mark Guest
Jazz Guitar
www.myspace.com/markguest
"It's taken me all my life to learn what not to play."
(Dizzy Gillespie)
On Oct 8, 2:02 pm, theappointmentset...@gmail.com wrote:
Mark Kleinhaut
I always played with four fingers. The pinky was just there, so what
the hell, what else was it going to be doing- just sitting there by
it's only and missing all the fun? Truth is, we're not all made the
same way and something natural for cat A can be the weirdest thing for
cat B.
We're not created equal and there is no god. You can quote me on
that:)
Greger Hoel
> We've had previous threads on happening three-finger players. Besides
> the above, I seem to recall: Grant Green, Peter Bernstein, sometimes
> Rodney Jones.
Yes, the examples are really too many to list. Unlike some
'three-fingers', Wes' three finger soloing technique allowed for quite
large stretches: He aligned his fingers along the strings, rather than
along the frets, like a violinist, making an 8 fret stretch in the 9-17
range feasible without the pinky.
j...@isu.edu
> Does your little finger help - or hurt - in terms of
> speed of course?
Is speed the only important consideration? I've found that if I want
to sustain a note, and maybe put a little slow vibrato on it, using my
middle finger rather than my pinky gets me better results (more meat
on the string = harder squeeze = longer sustain?).
Greger Hoel
> I always played with four fingers. The pinky was just there, so what
> the hell, what else was it going to be doing- just sitting there by
> it's only and missing all the fun? Truth is, we're not all made the
> same way and something natural for cat A can be the weirdest thing for
> cat B.
Definitely. I'd probably give up the guitar altogether if I lost my
pinky. That or start playing slide. I can't remember if I used it from
day one, but as soon as I started playing that old I5 I6 I7 blues diad
cliché in a closed position, I had to use it to reach the high note.
> We're not created equal and there is no god. You can quote me on
> that:)
Imagine the shitstorm if Tom Brown had said "we're not created equal" :P
Kevin Collins
> Guess you're a 3 finger player too. I think there's a Yahoo Group for
> that.
I think you're one, and you're just covering up. Garçon, can we get
the guillotine over here next?
j...@isu.edu
> On Oct 8, 9:32 am, jesseleejohn...@comcast.net wrote:
> using my
> middle finger rather than my pinky gets me better results
Oops! I meant to say "ring finger" not "middle finger" there.
Kevin Collins
Helps, and not just with speed, but also w/ voicings inserted into
solos, stretches (a lot of my preferred fingerings involve those
anyway), and bent-notes of the non-cliched variety. Hell, I wish I had
a couple more fetting fingers. It _is_ fun to intentionally practice a
passage with only three fingers, if it's not the typical three, to
build strength and to force creative fingering solutions. But, I'm a
big fan of the "use 'em if you got 'em"-approach.
Kevin
Mark Cleary
Can't help but ask really no God?
--
Mark Cleary makes music on the finest Jazz guitars.
http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191878170.8...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Paul
On 10/8/07 4:31 PM, in article
1191875477.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "sg...@hotmail.com"
<sg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> All those guys mentioned can play their shit perfectly without their
> pinky, so they must see it as a negative factor in their playing.
> I always spend up to a half hour in my practice routine trying to get
> my 3rd and 4th fingers to work perfectly together.
> Unfortunately, when I move the metronome up to 160 (16th notes),
> things get pretty sloppy with my pinky, and I assume blowing at that
> tempo is not going to go perfectly either.
> At 160 (16th notes) I have problems with my pinky when I descend on
> the G major scale in 2nd position (the one that begins with the pinky
> on the 5th fret of the D string and goes up to the 3rd fret on the
> high E string).
If you're playing 16th notes at 160, i.e. 8ths at 320, then you are a fast
MF. I can't get anywhere near that tempo, 8ths at 260 is about where it
starts to fall apart for me.
On the pinky issue, I occasionally want to play without using the pinky ( it
opens up articulation and control possibilities, and seems to grove more,
e.g. Wes, or P Bernstein), but typically I quickly relapse into using all 4
fingers. I think this is connected to the thumb over the edge of the neck
issue too: if I hang my thumb over the neck the pinky moves out of the way a
bit.
Paul K
Paul
On 10/8/07 5:33 PM, in article
1191879212.2...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "j...@isu.edu"
<j...@isu.edu> wrote:
> On Oct 8, 9:32 am, jesseleejohn...@comcast.net wrote:
>> Does your little finger help - or hurt - in terms of
>> speed of course?
>
> Is speed the only important consideration? I've found that if I want
> to sustain a note, and maybe put a little slow vibrato on it, using my
> middle finger rather than my pinky gets me better results
Especially when driving in heavy traffic!
PK
Gerry
> On 10/8/07 4:31 PM, in article
> 1191875477.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "sg...@hotmail.com"
> <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> All those guys mentioned can play their shit perfectly without their
>> pinky, so they must see it as a negative factor in their playing.
>> I always spend up to a half hour in my practice routine trying to get
>> my 3rd and 4th fingers to work perfectly together.
>> Unfortunately, when I move the metronome up to 160 (16th notes),
>> things get pretty sloppy with my pinky, and I assume blowing at that
>> tempo is not going to go perfectly either.
>> At 160 (16th notes) I have problems with my pinky when I descend on
>> the G major scale in 2nd position (the one that begins with the pinky
>> on the 5th fret of the D string and goes up to the 3rd fret on the
>> high E string).
>
> If you're playing 16th notes at 160, i.e. 8ths at 320, then you are a fast
> MF. I can't get anywhere near that tempo, 8ths at 260 is about where it
> starts to fall apart for me.
But does it fall apart because of limitations of your left hand? It
seems more likely to be teh right. That's always my first guess.
> On the pinky issue, I occasionally want to play without using the pinky ( it
> opens up articulation and control possibilities, and seems to grove more,
> e.g. Wes, or P Bernstein), but typically I quickly relapse into using all 4
> fingers. I think this is connected to the thumb over the edge of the neck
> issue too: if I hang my thumb over the neck the pinky moves out of the way a
> bit.
I agree articulation changes this-a-way. But the OP was really asking
about speed.
--
///---
Gerry
<gre...@spameggssausageandspam.com> said:
> Mark Kleinhaut wrote:
>
>> I always played with four fingers. The pinky was just there, so what
>> the hell, what else was it going to be doing- just sitting there by
>> it's only and missing all the fun? Truth is, we're not all made the
>> same way and something natural for cat A can be the weirdest thing for
>> cat B.
>
> Definitely. I'd probably give up the guitar altogether if I lost my
> pinky. That or start playing slide. I can't remember if I used it from
> day one, but as soon as I started playing that old I5 I6 I7 blues diad
> cliché in a closed position, I had to use it to reach the high note.
I started with rock/blues and even though I was playing jazz my pinky's
involvment was limited. Then I smashed the first joing of my index in
the hinge of a big oak door. I should have lost the nail but didn't.
In the meantime I was gigging so I just moved everything down a finger,
all my chords and everything. Whithin about a month my pinky was as
friendly as it's every been. I probably use it too much.
--
///---
Paul
On 10/8/07 8:30 PM, in article 2007100817302516807-somewhere@sunnycalif,
"Gerry" <some...@sunny.calif> wrote:
> On 2007-10-08 16:15:22 -0700, Paul <pa...@none.edu> said:
>
>> On 10/8/07 4:31 PM, in article
>> 1191875477.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "sg...@hotmail.com"
>> <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All those guys mentioned can play their shit perfectly without their
>>> pinky, so they must see it as a negative factor in their playing.
>>> I always spend up to a half hour in my practice routine trying to get
>>> my 3rd and 4th fingers to work perfectly together.
>>> Unfortunately, when I move the metronome up to 160 (16th notes),
>>> things get pretty sloppy with my pinky, and I assume blowing at that
>>> tempo is not going to go perfectly either.
>>> At 160 (16th notes) I have problems with my pinky when I descend on
>>> the G major scale in 2nd position (the one that begins with the pinky
>>> on the 5th fret of the D string and goes up to the 3rd fret on the
>>> high E string).
>>
>> If you're playing 16th notes at 160, i.e. 8ths at 320, then you are a fast
>> MF. I can't get anywhere near that tempo, 8ths at 260 is about where it
>> starts to fall apart for me.
>
> But does it fall apart because of limitations of your left hand? It
> seems more likely to be teh right. That's always my first guess.
>
Well, I'd guess I can't make both of them work together... But I know what
you mean
PK
decapr...@hotmail.com
> Probably because I've always had a rather "slow" little finger - I've
> been watching several different "fast" players - both jazz and country
> - and it seems like - some (not all) very, very, fast players, hardly
> ever use the little finger. I'd be interested in hearing opinions from
> speed of course?
> Jess
.Helps; and has to be developed congruously from the get-go. You just
watched guys who play fast without using the pinky. You can play fast
with two fingers. Imagine what can really be done with all of them
working balanced. Not just for "fast", it is for many forms of
advanced technique; not merely mono-dimensional. Human beings are
resilient is all and this shows when handicaps ( or underdeloped
areas) surface and are hence overcome. Harvey Keitel has a harelip and
Sean Connery speaks with a lisp. Peter Falk has one eye.
007.
Sean
> Mark,
> Can't help but ask really no God?
>
>
It seems that he's right on that one. I checked and there is, in fact,
no god.
Mark Kleinhaut
> Mark,
> Can't help but ask really no God?
>
could never reconcile what goes on in the world with the concept that
there could be any being or power that could have stopped it, but
chooses not to.
Mike C.
"Greger Hoel" <gre...@spameggssausageandspam.com> wrote in message
news:13gku29...@corp.supernews.com...
And Arlen Roth.
--
Mike C.
http://mikecrutcher.com
"A great percentage of people don't want a challenge. They want
something done to them, they don't want to participate. But there'll
always be maybe 15% that desire something more, and they'll search it
out. And maybe that's where art is."
- Bill Evans
JMK
>
> - Show quoted text -
Add Eric Johnson to this list. His ACL show had him reaching for long
stretches for chords using his little finger, but he didn't use it
during soloing.
JMK
Mark Cleary
attacked and laughed at many times especially behind my back. I simply ask
because I was curious it gives me topics at times for homilies. Faith is a
gift from God but this is jazz guitar newsgroup so I am off topic.
--
Mark Cleary makes music on the finest Jazz guitars.
http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191901795.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
KenK
> Probably because I've always had a rather "slow" little finger - I've
> been watching several different "fast" players - both jazz and country
> - and it seems like - some (not all) very, very, fast players, hardly
> ever use the little finger. I'd be interested in hearing opinions from
> this group. Does your little finger help - or hurt - in terms of
> speed of course?
> Jess
Hi Jesse,
You've got plenty of opinions already but I'd like to add a few words
about the subject.
I play w/o a pick (mostly) and use the pinkie on the right hand, can't
imagine not using it on the left.
If you look at an anatomical drawing of the hand you'll see that the
ring finger is connected to both the pinkie and the mid finger by
tendons or ligaments (not sure which). You'll also notice that the
pinkie has a lot more muscle built into it. So it has potential to be
one of the strongest fingers, while the ring is usually going to be
the "developmentally disabled" one. (ask any pianist) So anatomically
speaking- it is up to the task at hand.
As somebody already mentioned, playing with you're thumb over the neck
is going to put the pinkie and ring at a disadvantaged position, and
that may be the cause of your problem. With the thumb behind the neck,
the pinkie can come into it's own. I do a lot of scales and arpeggios
using a 4 fret stretch position, and the pinkie is key to playing this
way. (I still play thumb over position when I want a more bluesy or
rock feel.)
You might want to spend some time doing trill type exercises.
Just do continuous hammer on/pull offs with pinkie-ring, pinkie-mid,
and pinkie-index. (and chromatics too)
Exercising your fingers that way may make up for the time you've spent
not using the pinkie.
Try keeping the fingers close to strings when they're not in use-
they'll be more in the "ready" position that way- economy of motion
and all.
I hope you didn't get scared off by that one idiot.
People are usually quite friendly and helpful ere.
Good luck with it.
KenK
RickH®
> Probably because I've always had a rather "slow" little finger - I've
> been watching several different "fast" players - both jazz and country
> - and it seems like - some (not all) very, very, fast players, hardly
> ever use the little finger. I'd be interested in hearing opinions from
> this group. Does your little finger help - or hurt - in terms of
> speed of course?
> Jess
If your asking about speed, that comes with a relaxed, efficient,
light touched picking hand. Playing without the pinky just leaves you
with fewer grips and having to shift position more, the latter can
hurt speed of course, but speed is still all mostly in the right hand.
For years I had such a hard time getting a lighter touch, then after
watching Five#####'s videos and others here I decided to let the right
hand be "king" and consiously relax it and lighten up the touch, and
it's improved my speed. As for the pinky, it and the other LH fingers
just have to learn to keep up with my improved RH speed.
As for LH speed, I have found that the muscles that lift the fingers
off the fretboard are more important to be consious of, as opposed to
the clamping muscles. You seem to be focusing on pinky clamping
strength, when it's really about quick lifting strength (unfretting),
when a finger is clamped (fretting) it cant be fast anyway, because it
has to fret the string which is essentially it's rest position.
Kind of like the difference between guys with "health club" muscles or
"farmer muscles". The health club muscled guy can maybe lift a lot
statically, but the farmer muscled guy simply has more control over
small twitch, endurance and speed in both directions of motion (clamp
and release).
Gerry
I have no belief such belief either, but still:
Applying the logic of a human to the operations of a god is not so
practicable. No matter how much labor you put into it, a dog will
never be able to play the simplest game of cards. He doesn't get it;
his brain won't go there. Apply the same stratified inabilities to us
humans. If there is any higher order of thinking in the universe
greater than ours, there's no reason to think we can fathom it.
Neither when it's being explained very very carefully, nor with a
rolled-up newspaper.
--
///---
tomb...@jhu.edu
>
> If there is any higher order of thinking in the universe
> greater than ours, there's no reason to think we can fathom it.
> Neither when it's being explained very very carefully, nor with a
> rolled-up newspaper.
Or a tidal wave.
sheets
> Guess you're a 3 finger player too. I think there's a Yahoo Group for
> that.
Benson's a 3-finger player and I believe Rodney Jones and Sheryl
Bailey use that approach too. They use the little finger when they
have to but avoid it for most fast playing. I don't think it's such a
bad idea.
Mark Kleinhaut
> Applying the logic of a human to the operations of a god is not so
> practicable. No matter how much labor you put into it, a dog will
> never be able to play the simplest game of cards. He doesn't get it;
> his brain won't go there. Apply the same stratified inabilities to us
> humans. If there is any higher order of thinking in the universe
> greater than ours, there's no reason to think we can fathom it.
> Neither when it's being explained very very carefully, nor with a
> rolled-up newspaper.
> --
It may be man's logic but its all we have. The dog analogy is
irrelevent as they have no apparent interest in bettering themselves,
learning how to play cards or doing anything other than what humans
train them to do. Left to their own devices, they would merely eat
and breed.
And of course we can fathom things beyond our present understanding.
It is how we learn and move forward. Otherwise we'd all still be
living in caves.
hw
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1191901795.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
It's called Theodizee and Chistians usually avoid this topic like the plague
(pun intended). Leibnitz talked about the best of all possible worlds but I
doubt that many inmates of Auschwitz would have agreed...
On topic, I converted to 3 fingers for single lines, inspired by Wes,
Benson, Rodney Jones, and Peter Bernstein. I like it because it gives me
better (more diagonal) fingerings and more control of my phrasing. I still
use the pinky for chords and for classical.
sheets
> And of course we can fathom things beyond our present understanding.
> It is how we learn and move forward. Otherwise we'd all still be
> living in caves.
And playing Chuck Berry. :)
tom walls
>
> I have no belief such belief either, but still:
>
Is this a koan? :-)
> Applying the logic of a human to the operations of a god is not so
> practicable. No matter how much labor you put into it, a dog will
> never be able to play the simplest game of cards. He doesn't get it;
> his brain won't go there. Apply the same stratified inabilities to us
> humans. If there is any higher order of thinking in the universe
> greater than ours, there's no reason to think we can fathom it.
> Neither when it's being explained very very carefully, nor with a
> rolled-up newspaper.
> --
> ///---
Well put. I've heard it said that the foolishness of god is greater
than the wisdom of man. I suspect that the foolishness of man is
greater than the wisdom of dogs.
tom walls
> "Mark Kleinhaut" <markkleinh...@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:1191901795.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On topic, I converted to 3 fingers for single lines, inspired by Wes,
> Benson, Rodney Jones, and Peter Bernstein. I like it because it gives me
> better (more diagonal) fingerings and more control of my phrasing. I still
> use the pinky for chords and for classical.
I just converted to the 3 finger method because the cat put a hole
through the tip of my little finger. I really miss digit number 4.
Gerry
> On Oct 9, 11:16 am, Gerry <somewh...@sunny.calif> wrote:
>> Applying the logic of a human to the operations of a god is not so
>> practicable. No matter how much labor you put into it, a dog will
>> never be able to play the simplest game of cards. He doesn't get it;
>> his brain won't go there. Apply the same stratified inabilities to us
>> humans. If there is any higher order of thinking in the universe
>> greater than ours, there's no reason to think we can fathom it.
>> Neither when it's being explained very very carefully, nor with a
>> rolled-up newspaper.
>> --
>
> It may be man's logic but its all we have.
Sad but true.
> The dog analogy is irrelevent as they have no apparent interest in
> bettering themselves,
> learning how to play cards or doing anything other than what humans
> train them to do.
It was a metaphor. The distinctions between man and dog are too many
to name. But the metaphor's intent is to underscore only one thing:
Some concepts are beyond an animals ability to comprehend. I think man
is a pretty smart critter. Or at least he is when evaluated by his own
criteria. I assume dogs that that of themselves too. Is man's mental
ability beyond any limitation? I don't think so. After all, they say
we only use a very small percentage of our brains.
> Left to their own devices, they would merely eat and breed.
We're still talking about dogs now, right? :-)
> And of course we can fathom things beyond our present understanding.
By my reckoning "fathom" means "understand". By definition, those
things we can't understand are the things we can't understand.
> It is how we learn and move forward. Otherwise we'd all still be
> living in caves.
Didn't we get out of the caves from a desire to more efficiently eat
and breed? :-)
We work to understand those things that we cannot. On the other hand
if we think we understand them perfectly, and that our understanding
can neither be limited or flawed, then I don't think we work much
beyond that.
This isn't really an argument to defend God and Jesus and stuff. I
don't believe there is a God, but I accept I have my limitations and
could be wrong. Very very wrong.
--
///---
Gerry
> On Oct 9, 11:16 am, Gerry <somewh...@sunny.calif> wrote:
>> On 2007-10-08 20:49:55 -0700, Mark Kleinhaut <markkleinh...@hotmail.com> said:
>
>>
>> I have no belief such belief either, but still:
>>
>
> Is this a koan? :-)
I call it a "provocation".
--
///---
Keith Freeman
somewhere@sunnycalif:
> This isn't really an argument to defend God and Jesus and stuff. I
> don't believe there is a God, but I accept I have my limitations and
> could be wrong. Very very wrong.
Paul Davies, in The Goldilocks Enigma, seriously considers (among many
other theories) the possibility that we are part of a computer simulation
run by a highly advanced (???) civilization. Makes yer fink...
-Keith
Portable Changes, tips etc. at http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
e-mail only to keith DOT freeman AT orange DOT nl
theappoint...@gmail.com
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue1.4/images/Schecter/Schechter6.gif
The rest of you asswipes who make an argument for using 3 fingers are
pathetic. Anyone who plays well with 3 fingers does so in spite of
that fact not because.Thanks for the laughs though.
rayray
theappoint...@gmail.com wrote:
> This guy has a reason to use only 3 fingers.
>
>
> http://www.awn.com/mag/issue1.4/images/Schecter/Schechter6.gif
>
>
> The rest of you aswipes who make an argument for using 3 fingers are
sheets
OK, let me be the first to say post your !@$ clips or shut up.
theappoint...@gmail.com
thanks for checking in.
And here I thought 3 finger playing went the way of the Edsel, The
Watusi, blood letting etc.
Gerry
> Another 3 finger "player"..................keep pluggin' away, and
> thanks for checking in.
If you always drop the attributions we'll never know which guitarist
you're trying to inflict your bile-machine on.
> And here I thought 3 finger playing went the way of the Edsel,
One of the most advanced production models of its time?
> The Watusi, blood letting etc.
Guitar technique isn't a "fashion". If it were, you might well be
championing tight pants and big hair. Different people play different
ways for different purposes. Some are great, others suck.
--
///---
theappoint...@gmail.com
Des Higgins
This is ironic; I have just had a series of (losing) arguments with my
instructor about using my 4th finger. Ever since I heard it was cool
to using finger 4 to show you were not a rock or blues guitarist (I
heard that when I was 14), I religiously used all 4 fingers and after
a while never thought about it. So, when it came to playing a scale or
indeed anything in one position, I naturally sought the most sensible
frets to position at to minimise stretches and of course use finger 4
all the time. That is well and good for playing a scale with a
metronome and indeed my instructor constantly uses his pinkie when
doing so. The odd thing is though, that when he plays real tunes, and
especially with a fast or tricky bit, he avoids using finger 4 when he
has a simple alternative. Why? Cos he says, when you gig, you want
to keep it as direct and simple as you can cos when it is dark and
loud and you get nervous, first 3 fingers are stronger and less likely
to screw up. He uses 4 fingers as good as anyone I have seen but he
chooses when to do it. The ironic thing for me is that it now takes
some concentration to stop using 4th finger sometimes. Go figure.
Des
ThirtyOne
In my first lesson with my guitar teacher (a great player) I asked him
some questions about technique. He said don't worry about technique -
just play naturally and don't hurt yourself.
Whatever you need to do to get the music out, I guess.
For the record he is a four finger player.
Jay Mitchell
"KenK" wrote:
> You'll also notice that the
> pinkie has a lot more muscle built into it. So it has potential to be
> one of the strongest fingers,
Hmmm. So why is it that acoustic bassists don't ever use the pinky by
itself?
Jay
jessele...@comcast.net
> KenK
Thanks Ken -- Wow! - I had no idea what I was openng up!
But I thank everyone who contributed - (with possibly one exception)
Thanks again,
Jess
RickH®
My teacher is always trying to get me to use 5 fingers. He's got to
be the geatest thumb bassline player I've ever seen, of course he's
been doing a solo sing/guitar/harmonica/drum-machine act for many
years, so using his thumb is crucial to have a good bass line for solo
act. Unfortunately he never understands that I had a thumb injury
that makes it hard to bend my thumb. So to play properly you really
need to use all 5 fingers on the LH :) (the classical guys are
rolling their eyes now).
tom walls
jackz...@gmail.com says...
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
tom walls
markkl...@hotmail.com says...
> On Oct 9, 11:16 am, Gerry <somewh...@sunny.calif> wrote:
> > Applying the logic of a human to the operations of a god is not so
> > practicable. No matter how much labor you put into it, a dog will
> > never be able to play the simplest game of cards. He doesn't get it;
> > his brain won't go there. Apply the same stratified inabilities to us
> > humans. If there is any higher order of thinking in the universe
> > greater than ours, there's no reason to think we can fathom it.
> > Neither when it's being explained very very carefully, nor with a
> > rolled-up newspaper.
> > --
>
> It may be man's logic but its all we have.
It's all we have for what? How about intuition, imagination, faith,
courage, insight, wisdom? Ever hear that story about the guy with the
hammer who thinks every job requires a nail?
KenK
> "Mark Kleinhaut" <markkleinh...@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:1191901795.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Hi Mark-
I've been teaching myself CG for about 4 years now.
It's done wonders for my jazz (and other) playing.
How far along are you?
Self taught?
KenK