Benson Technique--Sheryl Bailey and Rodney Jones
ScotGormley
and I'm struck by her right hand technique--very Benson like. Similar
comment regarding Rodney Jones.
Opinons about the feasibility of mastering both this technique and
being able to alternate with a more standard picking hand technique?
The Benson technique was my picking technique (except I didn't know
that at the time) from 1980 to 1986.
I changed my picking while at GIT in 1986--I took me about 3 months to
make the transition. The reasons:
1. Playing with overdrive necessitated damping all unplayed strings. I
worked with Frank Gambale and Dan Gilbert in making the switch. (It's
also kind of interesting to note that the great rock guitarist, Paul
Gilbert, switched his picking style at the same time. He previously
played with a Benson/Neil Schon right hand--a modification that had
him damping/muting strings.)
2. Playing chord-melody with hybrid picking is more difficult to do
with the Benson technique.
I've always somewhat regretted making the switch, because, even after
these years, my right hand facility is not as good as it was when I
was 15 years old. Consequently, I'm heading back into Benson land.
Give about 3 months of this experiment, and I'll keep you posted of
the results.
- Scot
hw
"ScotGormley" <scot.g...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:f7471385-b22e-4ef4...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
i think it is rodney jones who has decoded the benson picking. SB probably
learned the technique from him? there are many subtle variations involving
fingers, wrist and elbow to different degrees. benson uses a bit more finger
movement (although even his picking has changed over the years, if you check
youtube). i think adam rogers uses more elbow, and so does william ash when
he uses a pick (he might have taken lessons with rodney about picking as
well). santana uses two fingers. also check out the vids by dan wilson. even
jimmy raney and jim hall use variations of this technique (iirc hall even
refers to benson on some video).
but there are more points to consider than the angle of the pick and the
various components of the right hand. benson technique is very hard to
execute without a pick guard. it also involves the same (or very similar)
picking strategies that are sometimes called "economy" picking. and it's all
about rest strokes.
sheetsofsound
Benson picking though was totally unaware that benson did it that way.
He has no problem using economy picking with that method. Dan's got
several very close-up videos of his playing so you can see his picking
technique very clearly.
Phil
"Benson/Neil Schon" There's a combo I've never seen before!
pmfan57
Adam Rogers also can do blazing economy picking with that position.
Jazzer
>but there are more points to consider than the angle of the pick and the
>various components of the right hand. benson technique is very hard to
>execute without a pick guard. it also involves the same (or very similar)
>picking strategies that are sometimes called "economy" picking. and it's all
>about rest strokes.
As John McEnroe used to say "You can't be serious!"
"All about rest strokes?"
Please tell me how he uses rest strokes when he's firing at the speed
of light?
paul
>
> i think it is rodney jones who has decoded the benson picking.
agree 100%. I took some lessons with rodney when I switched to benson
picking and it was the best thing I could have done. I am in
retrospect really glad I made the switch, although it literally took
me years to get the hang of it.
--paul
ScotGormley
It's a bit like the rest stroke technique used by gypsy jazz players.
Economy picking is used as much as possible. From teaching over the
years, it seems that economy picking comes most naturally to most
students--they do it instinctively. Then a teacher comes along and
"corrects" them by recommending strict alternate picking.
sheetsofsound
again, study dan wilson's clips. I don't know if he does gypsy picking
or not but he's got the benson thing down as good as ANYONE including
Rodney Jones and you can see the closeups in his vids.
Robert
Scott, do you use economy picking primarily?
McLaughlin and DiMeola do not use it primarily...or do they?
pmfan57
>
> - Show quoted text -
The issue wasn't whether the Benson style picker use gypsy picking;
they clearly are not doing that. The question was how someone can do
rest strokes and still play at the speed of light. Scot's answer (as
I understood it) was that the gypsy style pickers play as fast as
anyone and they use rest strokes, so it's certainly possible to play
fast, generally speaking, using rest strokes.
I myself have no idea whether Benson style uses lots of rest strokes.
It's obviously a great technique, based on all the circumstantial
evidence, but I do not love the sound most players get with it (other
than Bobby Broom and Sheryl Bailey who always sound wonderful).
Also, I have noticed recordings of players known for using it, in
which, when they are not quite on their game, the playing can sound
kind of choppy or "plunky". Of course when those same players are
"on", it is some of the baddest sounding guitar playing anywhere.
sheetsofsound
No, in fact DiMeola hates economy picking. He and frank gambale had a
little flamefest going on with their respective message forums a while
back.
ScotGormley
>
> - Show quoted text -
I used to use economy picking. Didn't know that was what it was
called--it just developed naturally. When I was about 14, I was taking
lessons from a teacher named Vic Vinci, and he commented on the
technique. I later switched to strict alternate picking (which is one
McLaughlin, DiMeola, Steve Morse, Mike Stern, Johnny Smith, Jack
Wilkins, etc. use) because I thought economy picking was "wrong."
I was talking to my friend Jeff Nickloff about this recently, and we
both commented on how we have noted many guitar students who naturally
play with economy picking (which, I define as using consecutive pick
strokes when moving from the 6th toward the 1st string--Tommy Tedesco
and Joe Pass described it similarly, too), and we generally have
"corrected" these players by recommending that they slow down, and
concentrate on strict alternate picking. I still think this is good
general advice, it's just that the idea of totally abandoning economy
picking is not wise.
There are certain runs that, when using alternate picking, are
impossible to execute with the speed and feel that you get with
alternate picking. Benson has a lot of those types of runs. And, after
having Frank Gambale mop the floor with me (he's like playing with a
hurricane) many times, I think it's very useful to develop economy
picking at least somewhat--even if you don't use it as your primary
technique.
When I did use the Benson technique as a kid, I could only play
archtops with pickguards, always wound up scratching up the
pickguards, and the technique did not translate well into a high-gain
technique (i.e., playing rock or fusion). When George Benson mentions
his chops "flying out the window" when the volume gets too high, I'll
bet that's what he means.
I'm definitely digging the Dan Wilson clips that Jack mentioned, by
the way. Great stuff!
I started this thread, though, merely because I've recently switched
back to angling the pick like Benson (and strangely enough, Neil
Schon--he's got some shred chops, for sure). I like the tone better,
my thumb is more stable, and for some reason, the pick seems to glide
over the strings more easily using this position (probably because I
started with this technique in the very beginning).