metric modulation, tunes?
hw
person who recommended it), what are actual tunes that use the concept of
metric modulation? i only could come up with "joshua"
Dan Adler
Holger,
I did one on "You'd Be So Nice" on my upcoming CD, but you'll have to
wait a couple more weeks for that :-) As we were rehearsing it, Grant
Stewart reminded me that there was a version of "Love is a many
splendor thing" by Max Roach where he does something like that. And,
of course, Bill Evans "How My Heart Sings", Bob Berg's version of
"Just In Time"... I'll try to think of more...
unknownguitarplayer
Good call, Dan...Bill Evans is a treasure chest of metric modulation.
So much attention is paid (justifiably) to his harmonic concept, yet
his distinctive rhythmic approach to single lines gets a lot less
notice. Listening to him trade fours with the different drummers and
bass players is almost a textbook in itself.
Paul K
> On Jan 9, 6:49 am, "hw" <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>> now that my copy of "creative rhythmic concepts" has arrived (thanks to the
>> person who recommended it), what are actual tunes that use the concept of
>> metric modulation? i only could come up with "joshua"
>
> Holger,
>
> I did one on "You'd Be So Nice" on my upcoming CD, but you'll have to
> wait a couple more weeks for that :-) As we were rehearsing it, Grant
> Stewart reminded me that there was a version of "Love is a many
> splendor thing" by Max Roach where he does something like that. And,
> of course, Bill Evans "How My Heart Sings",
Not to make a semantical point of it, but my understanding of metric
modulation in jazz (as my drummer friends explain it to me) is different from
what happens on HMHS: On that tune, the quarter notes don't change their
value: the tune just goes from 3/4 to 4/4 for 8 bars, but the quarter note
pulse stays the same.
But I thought metric modulation in jazz usually means a change of the quarter
note pulse, but with the same (or doubled or halved) downbeat pulse, so that a
swing feel at a different tempo and meter is introduced so that the downbeats
line up.
e.g. where a tune goes from 4/4 to 3/4 where the dotted quarters for the 4
become the quarters for the 3. I suppose going into double time is the easiest
version of metric modulation.
I can't think of any tunes composed with MM, but it is more of a improv idea
(like on Footprints). It is fairly common to hear drummers doing this for a
few bars.
Bob Berg's version of
> "Just In Time"... I'll try to think of more...
I'm not sure what Berg is doing on the head and his first chorus, but it just
sounds like they are mostlyy playing over the barlines on the head. Kikowski
always confuses me, he's such a monster with over the barline stuff, but on
kikowski's first chorus it sounds like he's just playing in half time
I was just listening to Dave Berkman's group doing Con Alma (from live in
tokyo) and they switch from 3/4 to a slow 4/4 where the downbeats of the 3
become quarter notes on the slow 4.
If I understand Jack's point he is talking about the challenge of comping with
a solid feel in one meter (say a waltz at quarter note=120) while the soloist
blows in swing 4/4 (say at quarter note=160) or vice versa. I've played
around with this with abersolds recently, trying to solo in 3 over a swing
4/4, I find it is hard to lock in to the swinging waltz 8th notes. It is
easy to go to quarter notes in 3, but when it comes time to toss in the 8th
notes I tend to instead move into triplets in the original 4/4 time. I almost
have to force myself to not listen to the backing track, but then the time is
not so solid. I've also done this with a bass player recenty and it is a bit
easier, since we can adapt to what the other is doing.
Paul K
>
> -Dan
> http://danadler.com
>
--
Paul K
http://www.youtube.com/TopologyPaul
http://www.soundclick.com/paulkirk
http://php.indiana.edu/~pkirk/
charles robinson
"hw" <nob...@home.com> wrote in message
news:gk7dnh$i4i$00$1...@news.t-online.com...
> now that my copy of "creative rhythmic concepts" has arrived (thanks to
> the person who recommended it), what are actual tunes that use the concept
> of metric modulation? i only could come up with "joshua"
I Get A Kick Out Of You,
Max Roach (Brown and Roach Inc.)
charles robinson
> the person who recommended it), what are actual tunes that use the concept
> of metric modulation? i only could come up with "joshua"
Somewhere Over The Rainbow, Donald Byrd and Gigi Gryce (I think that the
things that they were doing have be released as the Lab Band Sessions).
Charlie
hw
"Paul K" <user...@isp.net.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:PM0004600...@129-79-94-30.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu...
> Dan Adler wrote:
>> On Jan 9, 6:49 am, "hw" <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>>> now that my copy of "creative rhythmic concepts" has arrived (thanks to
>>> the
>>> person who recommended it), what are actual tunes that use the concept
>>> of
>>> metric modulation? i only could come up with "joshua"
>>
>> Holger,
>>
>> I did one on "You'd Be So Nice" on my upcoming CD, but you'll have to
>> wait a couple more weeks for that :-) As we were rehearsing it, Grant
>> Stewart reminded me that there was a version of "Love is a many
>> splendor thing" by Max Roach where he does something like that. And,
>> of course, Bill Evans "How My Heart Sings",
>
> Not to make a semantical point of it, but my understanding of metric
> modulation in jazz (as my drummer friends explain it to me) is different
> from
> what happens on HMHS: On that tune, the quarter notes don't change their
> value: the tune just goes from 3/4 to 4/4 for 8 bars, but the quarter note
> pulse stays the same.
i think you're correct. i use the term loosely for anything rhythmical that
goes over my head ;)
Joey Goldstein
As I recall Joshua isn't really metric modulation.
It just goes from 4/4 to 3/4 and back.
One of my old tunes that's posted at Soundclick (Tilestones) has a
metric mod. See the audio clips link in my sig.
It goes from a med tempo 12/8 into 4/4 where the previous 1/8 note
becomes the 1/4 note. This happens for the blowing section.
For the head out, to get back into 12/8 I believe the previous 1/4 just
becomes the new 1/8.
Also, my tune called The Wedding has a wiff of met mod during the heads
and the blowing section.
On the head there''s a short passage of a few measures of 5-over-2 with
the 'fiplets' in groups of 4.
In the blowing there's a short passage of 1/4 note triplets in groups of 4.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Joey Goldstein
Some of the best metric mod I've ever heard is on one of Wynton
Marsalis' early records Standard Time I think it's called.
Check out what they did with A Foggy Day.
Miles Smiles has met mods all over the place.
Usually it's something done by the improvisers within a standard tune
rather than something actually written into the tune.
sheetsofsound
> hw wrote:
> > now that my copy of "creative rhythmic concepts" has arrived (thanks to
> > the person who recommended it), what are actual tunes that use the
> > concept of metric modulation? i only could come up with "joshua"
>
> Some of the best metric mod I've ever heard is on one of Wynton
> Marsalis' early records Standard Time I think it's called.
> Check out what they did with A Foggy Day.
>
Actually it was autumn leaves that was the best example. It alternated
measures of
| 1/1 | 1/2 | 1/3 | 1/4 | 1/5 | 1/6 | 1/7 | 1/8 | {bridge} then | 1/8
| 1/7 | 1/6 ...etc |
Chickenhead
Herbie's piano solo on Wayne Shorter's "Chief Crazy Horse" (same album as
Footprints); Charles Earland's solo on "Milestones."
"hw" <nob...@home.com> wrote in message
news:gk7dnh$i4i$00$1...@news.t-online.com...
Chickenhead
Wynton Marsalis CD in her car that has a version of Autumn Leaves with
metric mods all over the place. I think it might be a more recent (last 5
years) recording, but I'll have to ask her.
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:gk83n0$dqf$2...@news.datemas.de...
>
> Some of the best metric mod I've ever heard is on one of Wynton Marsalis'
> early records Standard Time I think it's called.
> Check out what they did with A Foggy Day.
>
rpjazz...@gmail.com
quarters. It's an excellent choice for beginning to feel 2 over 3.
In addition, it drops a beat in one measure of the head.
Marcos Silva uses the device in some of his arrangements, most
notably, Fancy Talk. 2/4 to 3/8, briefly.
An album called Corrente has extremely sophisticated time changes ...
worth checking out:
http://musicabrasileira.org/ftpper/
and http://www.maritaca.art.br/corrente+cd.html
cl...@claymoore.com
There's a tune called Kathy's Waltz on Dave Brubeck's "Time Out"
album. It starts in a slow four beat and then metrically modulates to
3/4 for Paul Desmond's solo, but the curious thing is drummer Joe
Morello keeps a ding ding a ding ride pattern going in the 3/4, so
it's 1 2& 3, 1& 2 3&, etc. Then when Brubeck solos he modulates back
to slow four over the 3/4.
I've read and heard some dissing of the Dave Brubeck Quartet's efforts
by critics and fans, i.e. Max Roach was first, etc., but I still like
the music and think it's expertly played. They did it all - metric
modulation, odd time signatures, changing meters, hemiola, back in the
late 1950s and early 1960s.
Clay
cl...@claymoore.com
<kuNOrtSPAMshapTHANK...@YOUhoVERYtmail.MUCHcom> wrote:
> That jogged my memory for another one: My vocalist has been playing a
> Wynton Marsalis CD in her car that has a version of Autumn Leaves with
> metric mods all over the place. I think it might be a more recent (last 5
> years) recording, but I'll have to ask her.
Hi Kurt,
Nope, that's the one Jack was talking about from Standard Time, Volume
1, which was originally released January 1, 1987.
The first time I played a gig with Brannen Temple, when he was 17 and
still in high school, he and bassist Chris Maresh were doing metric
mods and polyrhythms out the wazoo. I was like "what the?" That was
around the time Standard Time, Volume 1 came out, and I know they were
checking it out.
Clay
Joey Goldstein
Actually I think it was April In Paris that I meant to mention.
Chickenhead
For some reason, I thought it was a recent one recording.* Now I'll have to
insist Jacqueline burn me a copy. I don't think I ever asked her what the
title was.
Didn't read Jack's earlier thread -- I figured it was over my head. I don't
really know the terminology or details of metric modulation, so I had
nothing to offer; I figured I could keep myself pretty busy just programming
a drum machine or MIDI sequencer if I wanted to work on it. Simple metric
modulations are hard enough for me, so trying to keep up with those deep
into it would have been out my league. I'm now going to force myself to go
back and read that thread.
* I think I might be getting old, as I could easly consider 1987 a nearly
recent recording. Doesn't seem that long ago that 1987 wasn't that long
ago. Ouch!
<cl...@claymoore.com> wrote in message
news:fcb7f566-44f9-47f2...@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
paul s
>
> Nope, that's the one Jack was talking about from Standard Time, Volume
> 1, which was originally released January 1, 1987.
>
> The first time I played a gig with Brannen Temple, when he was 17 and
> still in high school, he and bassist Chris Maresh were doing metric
> mods and polyrhythms out the wazoo. I was like "what the?" That was
> around the time Standard Time, Volume 1 came out, and I know they were
> checking it out.
>
> Clay
Several tunes/arrangements from Standard Time, Vol 1 are analysed
from a rhythmic viewpoint in John Riley's "Beyond Bebop Drumming"
book. I went out and bought the CD to hear the examples. Great stuff!
Paul S
Chickenhead
"Chickenhead" <kuNOrtSPAMs...@YOUhoVERYtmail.MUCHcom> wrote in
message news:gk8j07$fuk$1...@news.albasani.net...
paul s
If I remember right, the Beatles kind of did this on "we can work it
out". Just after they sing "life is very short" etc, it feels like
they're in 3, but each quarter note in 3 equals a quarter note triplet
in the original tempo. They make it feel like a "um-pa-pa" waltz
Another interesting one from the fusion days - The Dance Of Maya by
Mahavishnu Orchestra. Not really the type of metric mod being
discussed here, it has 2 sections (both in 20/8) that are subdivided
very differently. Finally the 2 sections are played simultaneously,
and at first it's very surprising that they line up the way they do.
Paul S
jjtko75
David Gilmore's record Ritualism has some very interesting rhythmic
stuff going on. Plus it's got the added allure of having some really
great guitar playing on it too.
Maybe I'm missing your point, but the book you mentioned has some
great examples of actual tunes on the CD.
John
paulmitc...@gmail.com
Alongside a bunch of standards, Tony D and I ended up jamming on that
tune one night in NY. I remember thinking at the time how often Lennon
did that kind of thing ('Being For The Benefit of Mr Kite' has exactly
the same gear switch). The lyric movement from Paul's optimistic 'we
can work it out' chorus to John's dark 'life is very short' bridge is
also pretty typical.
Although it's not an instance of metric modulation, the way 'All You
Need Is Love' alternates between 4/4 and 3/4 in the verse is pretty
cool.
hw
"jjtko75" <jjt...@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:a2d89483-1a7d-4594...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
the book has got great examples. i'm just interested in more study
material. keep 'em coming ;)
Dan Adler
> "jjtko75" <jjtk...@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:a2d89483-1a7d-4594...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
The Max Roach/Clifford Brown/Sonny Rollins one I mentioned is live at
Basin Street, and if you don't have that, it's worth its virtual
weight in gold!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Clifford-Brown-Roach-Basin-Street/dp/B00006C79B
The preview pretty much has the head with the 3/4 to 4/4 switcheroo.
In this case, a true modulation as the bar duration stays the same,
not the quarter note duration.
Enjoy,
-Dan
http://danadler.com