Heirtage H575 vs Ibanez PM100
Faizal Ali
quality new models, the Ibanez PM100 and Heritage H575 seem to be the two
options within my budget. Unfortunately, no dealers in my area stock them
(although they can be ordered) so I can't compare them. Does anyone have
any opinions on these guitars, or any other suggested models?
Thanks in advance.
David C. Stephens
I think that the Heritage has much better materials than the Ibanez. The
PM100s that I've seen have a lot of imperfections in the wood. Also, I believe
that the Ibanez uses a laminated top, while I'm sure that the Heritage has a
solid top. They both sound good and have nice necks, pickups and cases.
A common price for a 575 is around $1250, while the Ibanez should be about
$300 less. If you can't afford the 575, then the PM100 would be one of several
good options.
BTW, there's a used 575 for sell in this group. I'm not sure, but I think I
recall that it has a couple of options that make it worth the asking price
that's close to the new price shown above. Robert, the seller, has been around
here for a long time.
Jay Wolfe at Wolf...@aol.com is a great Heritage dealer that will have
several 575s in stock at good prices. I don't know of a good Ibanez dealer to
recommend.
Dave
Peter Grey
I've only played one PM100 and I thought it was great - wonderful action and tone, and it looked to be nicely assembled with no wood imperfections as the other respondent noted. Of course, I've looked at only one PM100 - who knows what others are like.
I thought the PM100 was a considerably more expensive guitar than the 575 - are you sure you're not thinking of the PM20 (which I haven't played and can't comment on)? Also the necks are very different on the two guitars - the 575 neck is a good deal chunkier than the Ibanez's. The 575 does have a solid top, but the top looks fairly thick. If you'll be playing it through an amp most of the time, the feedback resistance of the ply top may be more important than a small, if any, difference in tone.
A new guitar you may want to look at or consider is a Guild 150. It's a bigger box than the 575, has a slim three piece neck and sounds warm and full. You can also get it with one pickup if you care.
Good luck,
Peter
Richard Handel
Faizal Ali <f....@utoronto.ca> wrote in message
news:FL3u4...@campus-news-reading.utoronto.ca...
> I'm thinking of buyong an archtop with a routed-in pickup. As far as
> quality new models, the Ibanez PM100 and Heritage H575 seem to be the two
> options within my budget. Unfortunately, no dealers in my area stock them
> (although they can be ordered) so I can't compare them. Does anyone have
> any opinions on these guitars, or any other suggested models?
>
> Thanks in advance.
I recently picked up an H-575 from Jay Wolfe. I love the guitar and I
highly recommend the 575 and Jay Wolfe. However, I decided to get the frets
leveled as there were some minor irregularities. Other than that, I'm very
happy that I picked up a Heritage. The feel and sound are top notch.
Rick
Thomas
Beware!
Heritages can drive you crazy with fret leveling and buzz problems of all
kinds. If you were in a position to _thoroughly_ check out the 575, and I
mean like a couple of days to play it, show it around, etc., you should do
it. If, however, you have to order a guitar sight unseen and then be stuck
with it, the Ibenez should give you a better chance. They are pretty good
guitars in there own right, anyway.
My first serious archtop was a Heritage (Eagle). For a brand new guitar at a
decent price it had a fantastic sound. But it didn't EVER play right. I took
it to a few set up gurus in NYC and they all said the same thing: "Sell it
and by a used Gibson."
A couple of these guys were Heritage dealers and told me they have endless
problems with them, before and after a sale.
I don't know where you are located, but why don't you try a place like
Mandolin Bros.? True they are mostly high-end, but I bet they can come up
with something if you give them a call. Check their web site, it lists all
guitars they've got.
Also, for about the same price as the 575, I think you can get a new 175
herb ellis (one pick-up only). That might be another way to go. I'm sure you
can find a dealer close to you who can order any Gibson you'd like.
Guild offers a few choices in that range, also. I don't know why you are
limiting yourself to two guitars you haven't even played yet.
Best of luck.
Tom
Faizal Ali wrote in message ...
JALSRV
aroun1800 dollars. Ive played a fw, and thought they were nice. As far as
heritages are concerned, Ive playe dalot of 575's and didnt really like them,
but played a JOhnny Smith and a weet sixteen and thought they were incredible.
Jonathan
David C. Stephens
> While the Heritage should sound better and be made from better materials:
> Beware!
> Heritages can drive you crazy with fret leveling and buzz problems of all
> kinds. If you were in a position to _thoroughly_ check out the 575, and I
> mean like a couple of days to play it, show it around, etc., you should do
> it. If, however, you have to order a guitar sight unseen and then be stuck
> with it, the Ibenez should give you a better chance. They are pretty good
> guitars in there own right, anyway.
>
> My first serious archtop was a Heritage (Eagle). For a brand new guitar at a
> decent price it had a fantastic sound. But it didn't EVER play right. I took
> it to a few set up gurus in NYC and they all said the same thing: "Sell it
> and by a used Gibson."
> A couple of these guys were Heritage dealers and told me they have endless
> problems with them, before and after a sale.
It should have gone back to the factory if it needed more than a fret leveling.
Heritage has an excellent warranty.
I've owned three Heritages, played dozens and known details of several more, and
this has not been my experience. Mine three all played well right out of the
box. I lowered the action on my Golden Eagle to 3/64th and had the frets leveled
to accomplish that, but that is typically also required of most Gibsons, Guilds
and other factory built guitars..
No manufacturer is immune to problem guitars. I've seen Gibson, Ibanez and
Heritages with twisted necks and other terminal problems (they are made out of
stressed wood after all). Buy from a reputable dealers like Jay Wolfe and Bill
Fender, or others that allow a 24 or 48 hour return, and turn down the guitar if
it has any flaw you cannot live with (you'll pay return postage normally).
Be careful when generalizing about Ibanez. The Korean models are not up to the
standards of the Japanese models on which their reputation was built.
> I don't know where you are located, but why don't you try a place like
> Mandolin Bros.? True they are mostly high-end, but I bet they can come up
> with something if you give them a call. Check their web site, it lists all
> guitars they've got.
Mandolin Bros. is great, but be prepared to pay a premium price. They carry
Heritage, Gibson and several custom lines; therefore, you can really compare. I
don't think that they carry Ibanez. Expect to pay for the extra service and
extensive inventory.
> Also, for about the same price as the 575, I think you can get a new 175
> herb ellis (one pick-up only). That might be another way to go. I'm sure you
> can find a dealer close to you who can order any Gibson you'd like.
The Herb Ellis is a good guitar, I just didn't know where you could buy one for
$900 to $1250 (PM100 & 575 prices).
> Guild offers a few choices in that range, also. I don't know why you are
> limiting yourself to two guitars you haven't even played yet.
He's picked two guitars in his price range. No need to chastise him for making
good choices. Guild is fine also, but he didn't mention it. Gibson is in a
different price range. :-)
Best regards,
Dave
Ron Hall
<ric...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I recently picked up an H-575 from Jay Wolfe. I love the guitar and I
> highly recommend the 575 and Jay Wolfe. However, I decided to get the frets
> leveled as there were some minor irregularities. Other than that, I'm very
> happy that I picked up a Heritage. The feel and sound are top notch.
I bought my H575 about the same time as Rick and I am also happy with
mine. However, I'm new to jazz guitar and archtops so take my opinions
with a grain of salt...I think that for the money, the H575 is a great
guitar. Someone posted that they thought the necks were clubby. Maybe
it's just me, but I think the necks are quite playable and slim,
compared to some Martin and Gibson flattops I've played in the past.
Since the 575 is maple, it has a bright sound and I think flatwound
strings help to "darken" the tone some. This is also my first
experience with these type strings and I have to admit, I really like
them! As for a place to buy mailorder from, I would definitley talk
with Bill Fender @ Legato Guitars. I just bought a Polytone Mini-Brute
IV from him (nice amp to go with the 575, btw). He is very helpful and
knowledgable.
Good luck with your decision and hope this helps!
Ron
Thomas
>> Guild offers a few choices in that range, also. I don't know why you are
>> limiting yourself to two guitars you haven't even played yet.
>
>He's picked two guitars in his price range. No need to chastise him for
making
>good choices. Guild is fine also, but he didn't mention it. Gibson is in a
>different price range. :-)
Whoa, sorry! I didn't mean for it to come out that way. When I work up to a
fever pitch I tend to forget the person who will read this doesn't see and
hear what I have in my head. Also I reviewed his original message and he did
ask for other model info. Apologies all around.
>It should have gone back to the factory if it needed more than a fret
leveling.
>Heritage has an excellent warranty.
I think (I certainly thought) it was for a year. By the time I had figured
out the problem wasn't fixable, that mark had passed. (That was completely
my own fault, I know.) I was in a forign country and the local shop wasn't
very helpful. I kept bringing it back to the place I bought it and they kept
"fixing" it. By the time I returned to NY and tried to get it done, it was
too late. And as I said, even willing to pay: No deal.
But, your right, it was just one guitar that I had direct experience with,
but I was telling the truth about what a few dealers did tell me. They said
this sort of thing was quite common. They weren't selling/buying anything
and had no reason to lie.
>The Herb Ellis is a good guitar, I just didn't know where you could buy one
for
>$900 to $1250 (PM100 & 575 prices).
How much is the herb ellis on the street? I thought it was in the
neighborhood.
Thanks Dave.
Tom
David C. Stephens
Yeah, the PM100 is the Japanese model that cost much more than the 575. I also
agree that the Sweet 16 is a much nicer guitar than the 575, but it cost a few
hundred more. It can be had with a routed pickup for those preferring that setup.
Dave
Dave
David C. Stephens
> David C. Stephens wrote in message <382D8836...@ibm.net>...
> >> Guild offers a few choices in that range, also. I don't know why you are
> >> limiting yourself to two guitars you haven't even played yet.
> >
> >He's picked two guitars in his price range. No need to chastise him for
> making
> >good choices. Guild is fine also, but he didn't mention it. Gibson is in a
> >different price range. :-)
>
> Whoa, sorry! I didn't mean for it to come out that way. When I work up to a
> fever pitch I tend to forget the person who will read this doesn't see and
> hear what I have in my head. Also I reviewed his original message and he did
> ask for other model info. Apologies all around.
No offense taken here.
> >It should have gone back to the factory if it needed more than a fret
> leveling.
> >Heritage has an excellent warranty.
> I think (I certainly thought) it was for a year. By the time I had figured
> out the problem wasn't fixable, that mark had passed. (That was completely
> my own fault, I know.) I was in a forign country and the local shop wasn't
> very helpful. I kept bringing it back to the place I bought it and they kept
> "fixing" it. By the time I returned to NY and tried to get it done, it was
> too late. And as I said, even willing to pay: No deal.
>
> But, your right, it was just one guitar that I had direct experience with,
> but I was telling the truth about what a few dealers did tell me. They said
> this sort of thing was quite common. They weren't selling/buying anything
> and had no reason to lie.
Cringe...I hate to hear a story like that. Hopefully you were able to get a
decent trade out of it.
As for the motivations of dealers... let's drop that.
> >The Herb Ellis is a good guitar, I just didn't know where you could buy one
> for
> >$900 to $1250 (PM100 & 575 prices).
> How much is the herb ellis on the street? I thought it was in the
> neighborhood.
I've seen around $1800. I think that it's a much better deal than the 175,
particularly since I don't use the rear pickup very often.
Of course, the poster may have been planning to pay $1800 for his Heritage,
since the list is somewhere in that territory. If that's the case, then he has
more choices than he may have realized at first.
Dave
Richard Handel
> How much is the herb ellis on the street? I thought it was in the
> neighborhood.
> Tom
Before I picked up my H575 for $1300, I played and priced a Herb Ellis. I
think it was either $1800 or $1900. Quite a bit more. I like my 575 more
than the Herb Ellis I played.
Rick
Faizal Ali
Top clarify a few points, I live in Canada. The prices I have been quoted
are (in Canadian dollars) $2500 for the H575 and $2800 for the PM100
(approx. $1675 and $1875 in US dollars. Duty, shipping costs.etc. probably
inflate the pirces somewhat compared to what you would pay in the US).
The number of posts that have cautioned me against the Heritage is
interesting. I must say I have come across a large number of reports of
quality control problems with Heritage. There were, for example, two recent
reviews in Just Jazz Guitar of Heritage guitars that were shipped with
serious flaws. On the other hand, there is also near unanimous agreement
that the company is very fair in reponding to and correcting problems, so in
one sense ordering a Heritage guitar would seem to be a relatively low risk
venture (other than the hassle of having to ship the instrument back to be
repaired).
Reg Schwager
> Top clarify a few points, I live in Canada. The prices I have been quoted
> are (in Canadian dollars) $2500 for the H575 and $2800 for the PM100
> (approx. $1675 and $1875 in US dollars. Duty, shipping costs.etc. probably
> inflate the pirces somewhat compared to what you would pay in the US).
I think I've see the Herb Ellis ES-175's around in Toronto for $2000
Canadian.
-Reg
RG
>interesting.
>
>
>On the other hand, there is also near unanimous agreement
>that the company is very fair in reponding to and correcting problems
There's something really annoying about having to send your new guitar
back to the same folks that sent it out to you defective in the first
place. And why assume a returned guitar would get any more attention
to detail the second time around?
I would recommend playing any guitar you're thinking about buying
before you lay out any money. No dealers in your area? Take a
mini-vacation and travel somewhere there's a lot of guitars available.
Or, head to a guitar show and look for something there.
Last resort, buy from a dealer's stock and have an immediate return
agreement. Don't special order anything (e.g. a custom Heritage) and
then have to deal with it's defects on your dime. They might
eventually fix it, but why should you mess with that when you could be
playing guitar instead?
A lot of risk and hassle could be avoided if you just play the guitar
before you buy it.
-RG
On Sun, 14 Nov 1999 02:37:52 GMT, "Faizal Ali" <f....@utoronto.ca>
wrote:
>Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.
>
>Top clarify a few points, I live in Canada. The prices I have been quoted
>are (in Canadian dollars) $2500 for the H575 and $2800 for the PM100
>(approx. $1675 and $1875 in US dollars. Duty, shipping costs.etc. probably
>inflate the pirces somewhat compared to what you would pay in the US).
>
Fredrik Falbach
>>The Herb Ellis is a good guitar, I just didn't know where you could buy
one
>for
>>$900 to $1250 (PM100 & 575 prices).
>neighborhood.
>Thanks Dave.
>Tom
>
>
I bought my ES-165 Herb Ellis, used in the US, and payed $1150, about two
years ago. It had great, low action and no fret buzz. It was in mint
condition, very nice. I plays and looks great and plays better than many
Es-175's I've tried. I couldn't be happier.
Regards,
Fredrik Falbach
SteveN327
starting bid of $999. Looks to be in good shape. I played one yesterday at a
local shop (sunburst) and liked it.
Steve
OASYSCO
>>interesting.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>On the other hand, there is also near unanimous agreement
>>that the company is very fair in reponding to and correcting problems
>
>There's something really annoying about having to send your new guitar
>back to the same folks that sent it out to you defective in the first
>place. And why assume a returned guitar would get any more attention
>to detail the second time around?
>
>I would recommend playing any guitar you're thinking about buying
>before you lay out any money. No dealers in your area? Take a
>mini-vacation and travel somewhere there's a lot of guitars available.
>Or, head to a guitar show and look for something there.
I bought a new Gibson ES135 mail order. It was not until I changed stirngs that
I found a tuner was broken. Sent it back and got a factory-fresh one
practically drop-shipped from Gibson. I never could get good action and found
out later that the neck had a slight twist in it.
So, sometimes it is not enough to be able to play the guitar unless they let
you have it for a few weeks which is about how long it takes for problems to
surface.
Greg
ott...@hotmail.com
Faizal Ali wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.
>
> Top clarify a few points, I live in Canada. The prices I have been
quoted
> are (in Canadian dollars) $2500 for the H575 and $2800 for the PM100
> (approx. $1675 and $1875 in US dollars. Duty, shipping costs.etc.
probably
> inflate the pirces somewhat compared to what you would pay in the
US).
>
brands as well, Try Murch Music in Cambridge and The 12th Fret in
Toronto, both very nice to deal with./
Bg