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DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 Fingerboard Mount Pickup new guilds help
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mcle...@comcast.net
Feb 10, 2015, 7:18:13 PM2/10/15
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Ok I see the new Guilds have these rare pickups that are certainly not the
originals but can anyone tell me if they have heard the sound the pickups
produce? If these sound good even though the are chrome plated I am going to
get one or two for sure. I notice on the web site they sell them separate.
Ok group I need some answers and figure someone hear has experience with
these.
Deacon Mark Cleary
originals but can anyone tell me if they have heard the sound the pickups
produce? If these sound good even though the are chrome plated I am going to
get one or two for sure. I notice on the web site they sell them separate.
Ok group I need some answers and figure someone hear has experience with
these.
Deacon Mark Cleary
Tim McNamara
Feb 10, 2015, 8:32:33 PM2/10/15
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videos on YouTube demonstrating this pickup. Search for "Guild A-150
Savoy" and you'll find them. One of them attempts to warn off potential
buyers because "the inside is lacquered" and he complains of "no
acoustic sound, no electric sound, what's left?" However, the electric
sound he demonstrates sounds pretty darned good to me- not the tone I am
personally looking for but if I heard someone else sound like that Id
think it was good. And with playing with the amp EQ and adding a tone
control I might be able to exactly get the sound I want. I'd like to
check one out.
van
Feb 11, 2015, 4:56:29 AM2/11/15
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I bought one of the DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100 copies made for Guild by a factory in Korea last year for only $60 from a guy on TGP who owned a music store.
I let it sit around for a year until I needed some work done on my D'A, and I got Roger Borys to do the work, and install the pickup on my D'A last week.
Roger didn't want to drill a hole in the fingerboard to attach the pickup with the thin, metal rod that Guild includes with the pickup, so he used some type of adhesive, and cut off a little bit of the pick guard that he had previously installed (not the original pick guard), because he said it was very difficult to get the pickup to fit in correctly.
Guild does not include a volume control or jack, so
rather than use the POS volume control that I had from my old RC 1000, he went out and bought a tone and volume control that he attached to the pick guard with a 1/4 inch jack.
He said it was a very difficult job, and he had to cut one of the pole pieces to make it fit.
I remembered all the problems I had with the original RC 1000 (loud hum, insufficient pick up of the high E string, tiny jack always falling out, monkey bar always moving), and wondered if I shouldn't have bothered with all of this.
However, when I heard the incredible sound come out of my D'A through Roger's Minibrute in his shop, I knew I had made the right decision.
There are none of the problems I had with the RC 1000, and the sound is unbelievable.
It has that bell-like sustain that JS got out of his D'A, along with the mellow sound that kenny Burrell got out of his D'A with the 1100.
No hum,just that perfect clarity of the two D'As mentioned above.
Remember that I'm talking about the 1100, NOT the 1000, which Guild is selling for pretty cheap.
Someone posted here that they tried the 1000 on a guild Savoy, and the Koreans had copied it so perfectly, that it had the problem picking up the E string that the original DeArmond had.
Even the fellow who buys, sells and repairs old DeArmond pickups on ebay changed his mind about the Guild reproductions, and now says that they are a fine reproduction.
I just got it back Sunday, so I haven't used it on any gigs, but I'm going to try it at a session I'm playing Thursday with bass, piano and drums, through the pianists excellent amplifier, and the drummer, who met both Jimmy and John, is probably gonna have a heart attack when he hears it!
mcle...@comcast.net
Feb 11, 2015, 6:18:36 PM2/11/15
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Van,
Thanks for the response I am going to order one and give it a try. Sure it
is not goldplated but the key is these work when the neck angle is shallow.
My 49 D'a NY has a D'armond 1100 gold plated with the adjustable PP. My 37
D'a had one of the D'armond FHC with clamps and the whole works, but I took
it off and put it away because I really only play it acoustically. I am to
try one of these new DeArmonds on some other guitars in the shop. I can rig
up a pickguard mounted volume control and small mini 1/8 jack on a
designated pickguard. Then just swap the pickguard if you want to go from
pure acoustic to pluggin in.
You know we should try to hook a skype connection and compare our D'As
Deacon Mark Cleary
"van" wrote in message
news:151245bf-9e6c-4f41...@googlegIroups.com...
Thanks for the response I am going to order one and give it a try. Sure it
is not goldplated but the key is these work when the neck angle is shallow.
My 49 D'a NY has a D'armond 1100 gold plated with the adjustable PP. My 37
D'a had one of the D'armond FHC with clamps and the whole works, but I took
it off and put it away because I really only play it acoustically. I am to
try one of these new DeArmonds on some other guitars in the shop. I can rig
up a pickguard mounted volume control and small mini 1/8 jack on a
designated pickguard. Then just swap the pickguard if you want to go from
pure acoustic to pluggin in.
You know we should try to hook a skype connection and compare our D'As
Deacon Mark Cleary
"van" wrote in message
news:151245bf-9e6c-4f41...@googlegIroups.com...
JNugent
Feb 12, 2015, 10:50:50 AM2/12/15
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NAMM 2013 when the Newark Street range was introduced.
I thought that both the guitar and the pickup were excellent and
entirely what yiou'd expect from a (new) quality archtop; the DeArmond
was so true to like that it had the string imbalance problem that the
FH-C and Rhythm Chief always had.
There was also a USA-made model fitted with a Super Chief. It was better
in every way and probably equal to an Artist Award when the Artist Award
was a great guitar.
Gerry
Feb 12, 2015, 1:34:51 PM2/12/15
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--
Sunday is my new usenet day. All the others are for fun.
rpjazzguitar
Feb 12, 2015, 2:57:02 PM2/12/15
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Reminiscing:
My first good guitar was a 64 L50. Purchased new at the original Sam Ash store in Brooklyn. My dad, the further thing from a musician, bought it for me when I was 14. I found out much later, that he was making about $100 a week at the time. He spent a couple of hours dickering with the salesman about the price. He had grown up nearby. I recall them talking about long-gone candy stores. My dad told his favorite depression era story about a kid beating a candy store owner out of a penny on a 5 cent drink by ordering 2 two-cent drinks (one "real sweet") and mixing them together -- and the kid was banned for life from the store. I think my dad believe that the longer he occupied the salesman, the harder it would be for the salesman to walk away from the sale, and therefore, the lower the price.
As I recall there were two pickups available. One had the tone volume and push bottom.
The cheaper one, which is the one I got, had a volume knob only. It was the one with the two black stripes roughly under the high E and G strings. Anybody know which model that was? I have a vague memory that it cost about $20, at a time when the L50 cost about $135.
The connector was a screw-on type in an odd size. Mine broke, probably around 1965 and the local parts stores had one with the same diameter and a shorter barrel, so it never fit very well. My father, an electronics hobbyist, soldered it together. I still have it.
Not knowing any better, I played that guitar in rock situations where it simply howled with feedback. I had no idea why. I recall that the A string was the worst offender. I thought there was something wrong with the amp. I didn't know anybody who was plugging F holes or anything like that. In fact, I recall seeing the Gretsch with the painted on f holes and thinking that it was cheap crap. It was much later that I learned that Gretsch was making an effort to control feedback.
My first good guitar was a 64 L50. Purchased new at the original Sam Ash store in Brooklyn. My dad, the further thing from a musician, bought it for me when I was 14. I found out much later, that he was making about $100 a week at the time. He spent a couple of hours dickering with the salesman about the price. He had grown up nearby. I recall them talking about long-gone candy stores. My dad told his favorite depression era story about a kid beating a candy store owner out of a penny on a 5 cent drink by ordering 2 two-cent drinks (one "real sweet") and mixing them together -- and the kid was banned for life from the store. I think my dad believe that the longer he occupied the salesman, the harder it would be for the salesman to walk away from the sale, and therefore, the lower the price.
As I recall there were two pickups available. One had the tone volume and push bottom.
The cheaper one, which is the one I got, had a volume knob only. It was the one with the two black stripes roughly under the high E and G strings. Anybody know which model that was? I have a vague memory that it cost about $20, at a time when the L50 cost about $135.
The connector was a screw-on type in an odd size. Mine broke, probably around 1965 and the local parts stores had one with the same diameter and a shorter barrel, so it never fit very well. My father, an electronics hobbyist, soldered it together. I still have it.
Not knowing any better, I played that guitar in rock situations where it simply howled with feedback. I had no idea why. I recall that the A string was the worst offender. I thought there was something wrong with the amp. I didn't know anybody who was plugging F holes or anything like that. In fact, I recall seeing the Gretsch with the painted on f holes and thinking that it was cheap crap. It was much later that I learned that Gretsch was making an effort to control feedback.
Tim McNamara
Feb 12, 2015, 4:17:13 PM2/12/15
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:34:49 -0800, Gerry <add...@domain.com>
wrote:
probably seeing overspray from the top being finished that got through
the F hole and onto the inside of the back. I have an archtop where
this happened, but if you shine a light and look around inside the
guitar, it's unly there under the F hole. No big deal.
wrote:
>
> I wonder why they lacquered the inside...
I think it's unlikely that they did. The guy complaining about that was
> I wonder why they lacquered the inside...
probably seeing overspray from the top being finished that got through
the F hole and onto the inside of the back. I have an archtop where
this happened, but if you shine a light and look around inside the
guitar, it's unly there under the F hole. No big deal.
van
Feb 13, 2015, 4:03:10 PM2/13/15
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On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:18:13 PM UTC-5, mcle...@comcast.net wrote:
I AB'd it by first playing my B-120 through the pianist's Crate Acoustic amp for a bunch of tunes we played, and then playing my D'A with the Guild DeArmond reproduction through the same amp, and the guys said they preferred the sound of the D'A because of its warmth.
Tim McNamara
Feb 14, 2015, 1:37:31 PM2/14/15
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:03:06 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I used it in a group situation last night, and the guys in the group
> (all superb musicians) loved it. I AB'd it by first playing my B-120
> through the pianist's Crate Acoustic amp for a bunch of tunes we
> played, and then playing my D'A with the Guild DeArmond reproduction
> through the same amp, and the guys said they preferred the sound of
> the D'A because of its warmth.
Wow. How about the subjective feeling of the guitarist about the
>
> I used it in a group situation last night, and the guys in the group
> (all superb musicians) loved it. I AB'd it by first playing my B-120
> through the pianist's Crate Acoustic amp for a bunch of tunes we
> played, and then playing my D'A with the Guild DeArmond reproduction
> through the same amp, and the guys said they preferred the sound of
> the D'A because of its warmth.
pickup?
Gerry
Feb 14, 2015, 2:43:35 PM2/14/15
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van
Feb 14, 2015, 3:56:27 PM2/14/15
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For some reason, I play better when I'm in that condition, and this was the first time i held my own against the piano player, who usually blows me away on every tune we play.
He reacted by calling more complex Bill Evans tunes, and even made us play one of his originals, which sounded like it was written by the ghost of Bill Evans.
mcle...@comcast.net
Feb 14, 2015, 4:22:55 PM2/14/15
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What gage to you normally use? .12 are pretty standard.
Deacon Mark Cleary
"van" wrote in message
news:08d278ec-df3c-4bd5...@googlegroups.com...
Deacon Mark Cleary
"van" wrote in message
Tim McNamara
Feb 15, 2015, 1:05:39 PM2/15/15
to
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 12:56:26 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 1:37:31 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:03:06 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I used it in a group situation last night, and the guys in the
>> > group (all superb musicians) loved it. I AB'd it by first playing
>> > my B-120 through the pianist's Crate Acoustic amp for a bunch of
>> > tunes we played, and then playing my D'A with the Guild DeArmond
>> > reproduction through the same amp, and the guys said they preferred
>> > the sound of the D'A because of its warmth.
>>
>> Wow. How about the subjective feeling of the guitarist about the
>> pickup?
>
> I had a bad head cold and felt miserable, so I was more interested in
> their reactions. But through the fog, I noticed a stronger presence in
> the D'A, but that could be because I was forced to put .012s on the
> D'A by Bucky Pizzarelli and Roger, when Bucky tried it out a while
> ago. I don't know how Roger did it, but he made it easier to play.
A properly set up guitar with heavy strings is easier to play IME,
> On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 1:37:31 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:03:06 -0800 (PST), van <sg...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I used it in a group situation last night, and the guys in the
>> > group (all superb musicians) loved it. I AB'd it by first playing
>> > my B-120 through the pianist's Crate Acoustic amp for a bunch of
>> > tunes we played, and then playing my D'A with the Guild DeArmond
>> > reproduction through the same amp, and the guys said they preferred
>> > the sound of the D'A because of its warmth.
>>
>> Wow. How about the subjective feeling of the guitarist about the
>> pickup?
>
> I had a bad head cold and felt miserable, so I was more interested in
> their reactions. But through the fog, I noticed a stronger presence in
> the D'A, but that could be because I was forced to put .012s on the
> D'A by Bucky Pizzarelli and Roger, when Bucky tried it out a while
> ago. I don't know how Roger did it, but he made it easier to play.
because the action can actually be lower at the nut and the bridge. The
heavier strings with higher tension don't flop around as much as lighter
strings, so they don't buzz out against the frets as easily. Is the D'A
a vintage one? If so, it was designed with heavy strings in mind and
probably responds better than with lighter strings.
> For some reason, I play better when I'm in that condition, and this
> was the first time i held my own against the piano player, who usually
> blows me away on every tune we play. He reacted by calling more
> complex Bill Evans tunes, and even made us play one of his originals,
> which sounded like it was written by the ghost of Bill Evans.
want, so that's saying something.
mcle...@comcast.net
Feb 15, 2015, 1:39:27 PM2/15/15
to
Tim,
Your are absolutely correct in that heavier strings are easier to play in
many situations and much better about playing and staying in tune. This is
exactly how I think when setting up almost any guitar but some players
really want .9-.42. I recently repaired a severe headstock break on a
Epiphone reissue Les Paul and the guy has these .9 to .42 Ernie Ball
strings, for the life of my I could not play the guitar and keep it in tune.
I would have to practice to be able to do this and then fear I loose my
acoustic chops. The guitar when done was fine but I wanted so bad to put at
least .11-.50 and set up the nut better, it would have made this guitar
playable and sound ok. As it was oh what no sound of slinky strings can do.
Deacon Mark Cleary
"Tim McNamara" wrote in message news:slrnme1nvg...@sugaree.local...
Your are absolutely correct in that heavier strings are easier to play in
many situations and much better about playing and staying in tune. This is
exactly how I think when setting up almost any guitar but some players
really want .9-.42. I recently repaired a severe headstock break on a
Epiphone reissue Les Paul and the guy has these .9 to .42 Ernie Ball
strings, for the life of my I could not play the guitar and keep it in tune.
I would have to practice to be able to do this and then fear I loose my
acoustic chops. The guitar when done was fine but I wanted so bad to put at
least .11-.50 and set up the nut better, it would have made this guitar
playable and sound ok. As it was oh what no sound of slinky strings can do.
Deacon Mark Cleary
"Tim McNamara" wrote in message news:slrnme1nvg...@sugaree.local...
rpjazzguitar
Feb 15, 2015, 2:48:20 PM2/15/15
to
I have some guitars set up with 10-46. Some of them stay in tune very well.
Which lead me to ask, what, exactly, is it about light strings that causes them to go out of tune?
Is it stretchiness?
Not enough tension on the neck?
You can bend them further and then they bind in the nut?
Exactly what?
Which lead me to ask, what, exactly, is it about light strings that causes them to go out of tune?
Is it stretchiness?
Not enough tension on the neck?
You can bend them further and then they bind in the nut?
Exactly what?
van
Feb 15, 2015, 4:57:54 PM2/15/15
to
Larry Koonse, who also plays a B-120 also uses 11s. When I told Roger that, he just muttered 'speed demon'.
Bucky totally humiliated me in front of Roger and jack Wilkins when he realized i had 11s on the D'A.
He yelled at me, "What's wrong with you!? How can you put 11s on a guitar like that?"
I felt like I was being scolded by my father!;')
He was right, of course. I put 12s on it, and it sounded much better, but it was harder to get around on.
This might have been from the poor fret job Carlo Greco gave it, which fucked up the fingerboard.
I got Roger to fix the fingerboard and now i can get around on it fine.
Greco did the same thing to a 1962 D'A a friend of mine has, and he was literally in tears, and couldn't sleep for a month over it.
He had to take it to two other techs to correct it. i don't know how much they charged him, but it was probably many times higher that the $250 Roger charged me.
Tim McNamara
Feb 15, 2015, 11:39:37 PM2/15/15
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I discussed this with a mechanical engineer a decade ot so ago, he
pointed out that if the strings are actually stretching then they will
fail in short order. He was referring to the metal actually plastically
deforming from being pulled by the tension of tuning, strings will
elongate under tension a small amount without the metal actually
deforming. A .013 E string is under about 26.58 lbs of tension on a
25.5 inch scale guitar (25.54 lb if 25" scale and 25.04 on 24.75" scale)
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html
Standard tunings should not stretch the metal. So then what? The Dean
Markley Web site suggests that at least initially the stirng will go out
of tune as the windings around the tuning peg tighten. They discuss
some ways to "lock" the windings together on the tuning peg which I have
never tried; I always aim for 3-4 smooth wraps from the hole to the base
of the peg. This is really easy with slotted Kluson style pegs (which I
wish all tuners had as I really like the finished aesthetic of having no
string end sticking out). I've never used locking tuners.
http://www.deanmarkley.com/Info/Instruction/Instruction01InTune.shtml
The Markeley site also points out binding in the nut and at the bridge
as contributors to tuning problems. My guess is that skinnier strings
take longer to get wrapped tight around the peg because the tension is
lower.
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