Another Dan Wilson clips (For all we know)
Jack A. Zucker
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
ott...@hotmail.com
A minute or so into the Solo he does a nice quote of Stella, he plays
the opening notes, thinks a while then finishes it, I'm sure it wasn't
calculated, like most quotes.
He does some very hip, I think whole tones in triplets, I got
interrupted while I was listening. Anyway, he's a great talent.
Bg
Charlie Robinson
Charlie
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:ROidndbD0LP...@adelphia.com...
Jack A. Zucker
then have hundreds of CDs folks have submitted
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Charlie Robinson" <robins...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4KudneyC0rW...@comcast.com...
Charlie Robinson
Charlie
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
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Rick Ross
he needs exposure..he needs an agent..definitely
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
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Jack A. Zucker
ohio and get his masters and possibly doctorate in NY. These days, with the
live jazz scene so depressed, I think it's a good idea.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Rick Ross" <rickfrossyou...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o8NLe.2045$Hn3...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
paul
really surprised if he could get a record deal. there's not really a
huge market for jazz guitarists and there are tons of guitarists that
play really really great.
--paul
Charlie Robinson
guys that young who play that well. Ever since Wynton Marsalis came on the
scene there has been a demand for young extremely talented musicians. In
fact not so long ago there were plenty of guys in their thirties who were
complaining that they were too old to get a deal.That is why I found the Mel
Bay reaction surprising, but as Jack said they are probably inundated with
submissions.
Charlie
"paul" <pcsa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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jimbol51
Do you know if Bill Bay listened to him personally? I am awestruck by
this guy. I mean he is only 21 years old right now? Heck if you listened
to Benson at 21 he didn't sound like that! Do you know anything about his
practice routine? Is he self taught? He really makes me want to quit,
although for me jazz guitar has only been an incredibly serious avocation
anyway. Jim
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
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tomb...@jhu.edu
jimbol51 wrote:
>
> Do you know if Bill Bay listened to him personally? I am awestruck by
> this guy. I mean he is only 21 years old right now? Heck if you listened
> to Benson at 21 he didn't sound like that!
He's farther along than Benson was at 21, but then, Benson didn't have
Benson as a role model when he was 21. It's a beautiful thing to hear.
ott...@hotmail.com
Bg
Tone
Yeah but then again he didn't have any Benson recordings to learn from
either :-)
Shoulders of giants and all that.
Tone
markr
scene there has been a demand for young extremely talented musicians."
There are a lot of young, extremely talented musicians. I see them all
the time in the local clubs, and I do not live in what would be
considered a major jazz town by any means. Maybe these guys are not
quite the level of Wynton or this Dan Wilson, but still there are some
really incredible players. The level of talent these days is very
humbling.
Mark R
Joey Goldstein
impressed the jazz community.
What's different now, IMO, is that there are so many more really strong
jazz players out there, of any age. There's certainly more good jazz
players out there now than when I was young.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
markr
strong
jazz players out there, of any age. There's certainly more good jazz
players out there now than when I was young."
I suppose the jazz education system is one driving force in creating
all these players, both strong and weak. I just wonder how all these
strong players maintain their chops and make even a marginal living
playing this music. From my own experience playing jazz is something
you have to do on a regular if not full time basis in order to develop
and maintain what you've got.
Paul Kirk
benson.
PK
Jack A. Zucker
Benson and lots of folks say they do. Benson sounds just like Grant Green
and Wes to me. If you go back and listen to any GG CD you will hear just
about every patented Benson lick.
Dan sounds like GB and Martino which are his two biggest influences. I'd be
willing to be he's not familiar with Garland...
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Paul Kirk" <no...@noplace.net> wrote in message
news:tM8Me.1078$hF1...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
pmfan57
influence in playing jazz. He was indeed Benson's role model. All the
interviews support that statement. He wanted to be just a singer
before that. Benson has also cited Johnny Smith, Wes, and Grant as
well. People don't always sound like their influences. Pat Martino
was influenced by Johnny Smith but sounds nothing like him to me. He
was more influenced by Smith to play precisely, as I understand Pat's
discussions of Smith.
Grant Green cited Jimmy Raney as an influence and people here reacted
crazily to that notion (even though GG himself said it), but I
definitely hear Raney in Green when Green plays linearly, rather than
riff oriented. His "Standards" album has a lot of more linear stuff.
Actually, all bebop guitarists owe a debt to Raney because he was the
first to really master bebop on guitar, where all the bebop stuff just
flowed smoothly out of the instrument. Earlier guitar players that
played on bop sessions were transitional between Charlie Christian and
bebop, although some of these figures, such as Chuck Wayne, developed
into full-fledged bebop guitarists as they went along. Kessel added
more bebop material into his playing, but always retained some of the
older style as well.
JP
But there is a track called "Riot"..or something very similar...A
blues..Garland is playing with a very young Gary Burton.
When you hear this, you will then hear the connection between GB and HG.
JP
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
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RB
JP wrote:
> I used to think this too.
>
> But there is a track called "Riot"..or something very similar...A
> blues..Garland is playing with a very young Gary Burton.
> When you hear this, you will then hear the connection between GB and HG.
EXACTLY!!! GB's biggest HG lick is the use of 6ths!
Holger Weber
"pmfan57" <jwra...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1124164542.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Benson, and Jimmy Bruno for that matter, said Garland was their biggest
> influence in playing jazz. He was indeed Benson's role model. All the
> interviews support that statement. He wanted to be just a singer
> before that. Benson has also cited Johnny Smith, Wes, and Grant as
> well. People don't always sound like their influences. Pat Martino
> was influenced by Johnny Smith but sounds nothing like him to me. He
> was more influenced by Smith to play precisely, as I understand Pat's
> discussions of Smith.
>
> Grant Green cited Jimmy Raney as an influence and people here reacted
> crazily to that notion (even though GG himself said it), but I
> definitely hear Raney in Green when Green plays linearly, rather than
> riff oriented. His "Standards" album has a lot of more linear stuff.
> Actually, all bebop guitarists owe a debt to Raney because he was the
> first to really master bebop on guitar, where all the bebop stuff just
> flowed smoothly out of the instrument. Earlier guitar players that
> played on bop sessions were transitional between Charlie Christian and
> bebop, although some of these figures, such as Chuck Wayne, developed
> into full-fledged bebop guitarists as they went along. Kessel added
> more bebop material into his playing, but always retained some of the
> older style as well.
It is all on the records. Listen to New Boss Guitar and it is clear where
Benson is coming from. Will you still be mine could be a verbatim head and
solo by Grant. Benson got his non-legato phrasing and most of his pet licks
directly from Grant. No room for discussion. Either you hear it or you don't
;)
Same with Raney's influence on Grant. I've posted clips on this newsgroup
from early Raney solos that Grant copped note for note. Grant's trademark
licks come directly from 1947 recordings from Jimmy with Wardell Gray and
Getz.
Pat Martino's first influence of cause was Johnny Smith, who's 78s he
transcribed when he was about 10 years old. On his first recordings (as Pat
Azzara, or "The Kid") there is a *huge" Eddie Mc Fadden influence. At that
time he was obviously also trancribing ton's of Wes, as is evident on his
Satin Doll solo with all the Wes quotes. Later his more mature phrasing,
that had it's peak on the ballads record, reflects heavily on what Wes does
on Groove Brothers and Boss Guitar (Listen to the double time passage on
Canadian Sunset or Days Of Wine And Roses) . Other important influences were
Grant Green and Joe Pass' Pacific recordings. And of cause Lee Morgan,
especially his solo on Lazy Bird and the Jazz Messengers recordings. It is
evident in his playing as well as in his choice of repertoire at that time.
I'm willing to bet money that he never listened to Billy Bean. (Of cause he
was much too young to see Billy play in Philly anyway, if Bean was playing
out at all at that time..)
And while I'm at it, listen to Wes' Portait Of Wes for some *serious* Grant
Green influences. Everyone loved what Grant did.
Holger
Jack A. Zucker
"pmfan57" <jwra...@aol.com> wrote in message
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> Benson, and Jimmy Bruno for that matter, said Garland was their biggest
> influence in playing jazz.
Benson says a lot of things. The truth is in the lines. Transcribe a Grant
Green CD and you'll find virtually every benson lick! :-)
Holger Weber
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:z-ydnfbwqqf...@adelphia.com...
Fact.
Charlie Robinson
times but it most of it is in terms of phrasing. If you listen to Groove
Yard as played by the Hal Gaylor Trio the third phrase of Bean's solo (on
the first change), for instance, could almost come directly from a Martino
solo. Also the type of attack used by Bean with its cleanly picked notes and
mannerisms such as decending chromatic phrases bear a close resemblence to
devices used by Martino. To me at times he sounds like Martino slowed down
but only on certain phrases.
Charlie
"Holger Weber" <nos...@nono.com> wrote in message
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Charlie Robinson
George's solos that can't be attributed to Green or anyone else. His bazing
arpeggio runs and acending chromatic lines are just two examples.
Charlie
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
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Holger Weber
"Charlie Robinson" <robins...@comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:S4adnbFYybX...@comcast.com...
> Martino has mentioned Bean as an influence. You can hear similarities at
> times but it most of it is in terms of phrasing. If you listen to Groove
> Yard as played by the Hal Gaylor Trio the third phrase of Bean's solo (on
> the first change), for instance, could almost come directly from a Martino
> solo. Also the type of attack used by Bean with its cleanly picked notes
> and mannerisms such as decending chromatic phrases bear a close
> resemblence to devices used by Martino. To me at times he sounds like
> Martino slowed down but only on certain phrases.
>
> Charlie
Could you find that quote, Charlie?
Did you check out Pat's homepage where you can browse through his record
collection? Great comments by Pat too.
Holger
Charlie Robinson
from Raney and Benson got all of his from Grant why doesn't Benson sound
like Raney? Obviously there is something wrong with that story.
Charlie
"Charlie Robinson" <robins...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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Holger Weber
> Here is another way to look at all of that: If Grant got all of his
> material from Raney and Benson got all of his from Grant why doesn't
> Benson sound like Raney? Obviously there is something wrong with that
> story.
>
> Charlie
Because a decade or two of playing every night made each of those players
unique. But Benson owes his style to Grant. Not to Wes or Garland.
Holger
pmfan57
interviews. He was inspired to play jazz when he heard Hank Garland.
Before that he was happy being a singer. Once inspired to play jazz,
obviously he absorbed many other influences.
pmfan57
other people's lines.
But, as I said, there is no doubt that, for example, Pat Martino was
influenced by Johnny Smith. Yet he doesn't sound like him except in
the precision. (I'm influenced by Keith Richards, but I don't play
like him.)
pmfan57
"Well I think the following quote from the liner notes to "Desperado"
[should be East]
(PR 7547 re-released as OJCCD 223-2) should answer the "was Pat
influenced by Billy Bean" question:
"Pat was born in Philadelphia on August 25, 1944. Philly has cradled
several important guitarists including . . . Billy Bean and Dennis
Sandole. The latter two were influences on Martino. 'I used to
listen to Billy a lot and loved what he played.' [Said Pat.]"
So Holger not only did Pat listen to his fellow Philadelphian, he was
influenced by him.
Joe
pmfan57
confused without my record collection in front of me. See my old
thread on this issue.
Holger Weber
> Sorry Holger, but one of my old posts decided this once and for all:
>
> "Well I think the following quote from the liner notes to "Desperado"
> [should be East]
> (PR 7547 re-released as OJCCD 223-2) should answer the "was Pat
> influenced by Billy Bean" question:
>
> "Pat was born in Philadelphia on August 25, 1944. Philly has cradled
> several important guitarists including . . . Billy Bean and Dennis
> Sandole. The latter two were influences on Martino. 'I used to
> listen to Billy a lot and loved what he played.' [Said Pat.]"
>
> So Holger not only did Pat listen to his fellow Philadelphian, he was
> influenced by him.
>
> Joe
I stand corrected. Check is in the mail.
Holger
pmfan57
Joe
Holger Weber
>I accept paypal and M.O. ;-)
>
>
pmfan57
heard Hank Garland. That is a fact. It is also a fact that he learned
tons of licks from Grant Green and re-made them his own. Those are not
mutually exclusive. Those funky licks are really what he learned,
though. The linear thing (that is, other than the "Bensonisms") was
from his bop predecessors, probably filtered through GG somewhat and
lots of other players. Benson is a guitar afficianado and has listened
to everyone.
Charlie Robinson
mentioned the most were Garland and Johnny Smith. But as they have been
saying there is a whole lot of Grant Green in his funk playing. I also had a
chance to see both Benson and Green live in clubs. Green aways came off as
laid back and swinging while Benson's playing had this way up on top of it
almost frantic edge even though many of the types of things that they were
playing were the same.
Charlie
"pmfan57" <jwra...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Jack Zucker
can't just believe the stuff someone says in an interview.
I studed with Dennis Sandole in Philly and Dennis always talked about
Pat as one of the shining examples of his teachings. Later, when I
studied with Pat, he dismissed this saying that he didn't get very much
out of his studies with Dennis.
However, later on I read an interview where he was very complimentary
to Dennis and cited him as a big influence. Which version was true? I
dunno but I don't believe something just because I read it in print.
Of course, the fact that something's said in an internet forum (like
this posting) means nothing either!
However, the real truth is in the music. I have not personally copied
any of Billy Bean's stuff so I can't comment on the influence on
Martino but I have copied a fair amount of Wes, Grant Green and George
Benson and there's definitely a commonality.
Charlie Robinson
on the back of the original
Conciousness album but don't wan't to swear to it. I heard him here a few
months ago--- he was so good that when he got done people were just sitting
there with shocked expressions on their faces--it was incredible!
Charlie
Charlie
"Holger Weber" <noNON...@home.com> wrote in message
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pmfan57
*listen* to Bean. The touch, the way he attacks each note. Few
guitarists in jazz history have caressed the note and struck the string
with the pick in quite that way. Martino is one of them.
Pat might have chosen different lines to play; but the influence is
clear, especially in view of the quote. Transcriptions of the actual
Bean lines won't negate that.
So we don't have to wait around until you transcribe Bean, old bean.
Even playing the same note over and over again Bean sounds like he
influenced Pat.
But Pat definitely played Wes-like lines using that Bean-like attack.
Jack Zucker
pmfan57 wrote:
> Transcription of lines might not detect the Bean influence. You must
> *listen* to Bean. The touch, the way he attacks each note. Few
> guitarists in jazz history have caressed the note and struck the string
> with the pick in quite that way. Martino is one of them.
Hmmm - I'm not disputing any of that. How did we get to this point in
the discussion? :-)
Anyway, I'm pretty sure Dan Wilson wasn't influenced by Hank Garland
directly. I did email him and ask him but he's probably too busy
practicing to answer...
Seth
> evident in his playing as well as in his choice of repertoire at that time.
> I'm willing to bet money that he never listened to Billy Bean. (Of cause he
> was much too young to see Billy play in Philly anyway, if Bean was playing
> out at all at that time..)
How much money?...
Billy was around when Pat was in his teens and they had met up on
several occasions. (By the mid 60's Billy had returned from NY and was
living and playing back in Philadelphia.)
Seth
pmfan57
thread anyway? He sounds like Benson/Norman Brown.
Paul Kirk
pmfan57 wrote:
> THAT, I'll take your word for. How did Dan Wilson's name get into this
> thread anyway?
note choice necessarily, but rather phrasing/articulation. But you guys
are clearly more on top of these subtleties and informed about
influences than I am.
Paul K
Tom Walls
a.ko...@computer.org says...
> oops, should have read the rest of the thread.
>
>
It was a great thread. I got a big kick out of it.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
pmfan57
Tom Walls
jwra...@aol.com says...