Nylon String guitar players
bob
The Buscarino Players video has captured my attention lately. Gene
Bertoncini, Mike Christiansen and Ron Afiff all played the Buscarino
Cabaret nylon string and sound marvelous. Of those, only Ron Afiff
played both archtop and Cabaret. How many of you play either nylon
string only or both? I know Tim Berens does. Who else? Whenever I pick
up a classical guitar in a music store it feels very awkward: the wide
neck, high action and scale (I'm used to 24.75") make me feel as if I
never played a guitar before. I play fingerstyle, so at least that is
OK.
Perhaps we can start a discussion on this topic. What adjutments do you
make? How successful are you at lowering the action? What guitars are
recommended? What strings do you use? etc.?
I don't have a lot of money to spend to experiment. I'd be looking for
a guitar with both a cut away and built in pickup, but with at least a
decent accustic sound.
Looking forward to your responses, thanks.
Bob
Claus Rogge
> How many of you play either nylon
> string only or both? I know Tim Berens does. Who else?
Here. If interested, click on
http://www.soundclick.com/clausrogge
and choose Summertime
> What adjutments do you
> make? How successful are you at lowering the action?
No trussrod in a classical. What you do is either file down the bridge
or saddle, or put pieces under them to lower/heighten them.
> What guitars are
> recommended?
Difficult question! Since you play guitar already, I“d say one you feel
comfortable with
> What strings do you use?
I use Augustine Blue, or Savarez Alliance, or Thomastik. Michael
Troester Carbon when I feel I“ve got money enough (seldom!)
my 2 c.
Nate Najar
onlyplay the nylon string. I have the Cabaret from Buscarino and I
believe it's the perfect instrument for what I do. Befor I got my
cabaret I was playing old Guild Mark 2's from the 60's.
Finding the right strings for your classical is very important in
getting a good tone. It has taken me a very long time but I
finallyhave found strings I'm 100% happy with in terms of tone and
feel. I'm labella 413p strings now. I used to use savarez 520r and
they're a very good all purpose string that will always sound good, but
for me and my particular guitar when i found these labella's I knew I
was set.
The cabaret has a truss rod, which I think is a marvelous idea. Most
nylon strings don't. you change the action by filing the saddle. If
that action is too low, you won't geta lot of sustain and if it's too
high it'll be damn near impossible to play.
There are lotsof guitars out there in manyprice ranges. Amplified
mostwill sound very similar, even if acoustically they're very
different. Your best betisto findone that feels goodto your hands.
The wideneck thing maybefunny at first,butyou get used to it in
shorttime. But all these production classical guitars feel different.
Takamine is a good guitarand good value. Yamaha has some decent ones
too. The taylor's are ok, but they're more designed as a nylon string
guitar for a steel string guy, not really a classical guitar. This
might be just whatyou're looking for.
Any other? just ask.
Vuk
nice guitar for the money: good acoustic tone and otherwise versatile.
I think they're the best mass-produced classical guitars out there
(note I said mass so this in relation to Yamaha, etc.). I've never
played the Taylor but like their instruments so it might be worth
checking out if you have the cash.
ehha...@comcast.net
adjusting the bridge. The truss rod is to control the shape of the
neck - string relief and so forth. THEN the bridge is used to adjust
the string height.
Maybe with nylon strings the relief is preset in the neck, in which
case only the string height is the issue and it's adjusted at the
bridge.
Regards,
Hack
--//--
ehha...@comcast.net
happy with the MY tone on nylon. I don't know what it is - technique
(probably), nails (maybe), strings (maybe a little). It just isn't
there. Even when I try classical tunes, I play them on steel strings.
Sometime, when I have the time, I should probably study with a
classical teacher and see if they can help.
Hack
--//--
roc...@yahoo.com
Check out Danny Embrey
After seeing him with Karrin Allyson I was tempted to get a nylon
string as well. He plays
a Godin guitar
Rocco
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message
<1137245562.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> :
>Finding the right strings for your classical is very important in
>getting a good tone. It has taken me a very long time but I
>finallyhave found strings I'm 100% happy with in terms of tone and
>feel. I'm labella 413p strings now. I used to use savarez 520r and
>they're a very good all purpose string that will always sound good, but
>for me and my particular guitar when i found these labella's I knew I
>was set.
Nate, I'm using the same Saverez string. What do you find different
about the labellas? I don't have a whole lot to go on, or even the
patience if I did, to narrow the field and try out a handful of
strings. So I'm hoping to benefit from others' trial and error. I
like the feel of the 520r's but they seem a bit bright and thin
sounding.
>Any other? just ask.
I have a Fender GN-45SC which I got for $400 off ebay. I have been
thrilled to have a decent nylon string guitar at that price. It has a
cutaway and a slimmer neck profile so feels comfortable. I think they
go for about $700 new which I would still consider a bargain.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, hear sound clips, see videos, and get more info.
Visit my new Instant Download Mp3 Store at:
http://www.onestopjazz.com/mp3-store.html
Alternate site for gig tape soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
Mac
Great action, reasonably priced, and good acoustic sound. I've never
been thrilled with the amplified sound and I'm sure they've improved
the electronics over the years. Would love to get my hands on a
Buscarino Cabaret sometime. Have been looking at Washburn c104 or
NV100 which seem to get good reviews and are not too expensive. I just
don't have a nearby opportunity to try them.
I've been using D'Addario Hard Tension and am pretty happy with them.
I really like the versatility of the nylon string guitar---finger
style, chord melody, latin, jazz, classical. I still have an electric
for times when it's needed and certain types of music just sound much
better to me on a nice archtop. Can't get away from the allure of it. I
use an ES 165 for this and am pretty happy with it (an L5 would be nice
too). Archtops drive me a bit crazy though with their peculiarities,
endless options, variations in sound, etc. Feel like I could easily be
absorbed in an endless search for the right one. Don't feel as
unsettled with the classical.
Would be interested to hear more of Nate's views about concentrating on
use of a classical.
Paul Kirk
Hybrid: the fretboard is not as wide as a classical guitar and has a
curve to it. It has no soundhole but is chambered.
I play it some, but dont play it as much as I though I would. I like
practicing on the archtop, and when gigging or rehearsing I'm too lazy
to carry along an extra guitar for just a couple of tunes. Also, the
entirely different feel distracts when I'm trying to get serisou
practice in.
But this is a real nice guitar, and I'd recommend it. about $1800 new
http://www.renaissanceguitars.com/rn6.html
I posted a clip I recorded on it a few months ago
(dedicated to 5#) on my soundclick page
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=240975
Paul K.
Mac
good things about these guitars.
Norm K
guitar for a steel string guy, not really a classical guitar. This
*******************
Ibanez also makes (made?) electric classicals that also were designed
for steel string players: narrower neck, 14 frets to the body. They're
much less expensive than Taylors. I had one for a while and, while I
liked the sound and touch, I traded it because it didn't feel enough
like a classical to me. As Nate said, this type of guitar might work
well for you.
Norm
Norm K
Buscarino
Cabaret nylon string and sound marvelous. Of those, only Ron Afiff
*********************
Saw Gene play last year and he used both the Buscarino and a D'Angelico
archtop. He was terrific on both.
Norm
bob
I have been looking on the net at Washburn C104 and the Takamines
(which are in my price range), but am leery of buying without a chance
to play them here in Denver. I'm not in a hurry, but plan on continuing
a search in hopes something will eventually come along that I can get
along with.
I hope this discussion continues.
By the way, it's not jazz, but you might enjoy this video:
http://www.youtube.com/w/Paganini---Caprice-Nro.-24-%28complete-version%29?v=k_7XtvQYAZ4&search=fingerpicking
Bob
JOSEPH JEWELL
"bob" <klut...@estreet.com> wrote in message
news:1137240830.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I play legit classical, so my needs for a guitar are probably different than
most jazz players. I go with standard classical neck width and action
setup, so I won't comment too much there. however, I will heartily
recommend D'Addario J51 strings. They are called "Recording" strings
because the bass strings are polished to a semi-flatwound smoothness. Not
quite as smooth as true flats. One thing I have found is that finger noise
on a classical is greatly magnified by a piezo-style pickup. It was driving
me crazy until I tried these strings.
As per a guitar, I second the vote for Takamine cutaway.
Good luck.
Joe
www.joejewellguitar.com
ade...@optonline.net
I recently purchased a Yamaha APX-5NA. It's the perfect nylon string
for an archtop player. It has a radiused narrower neck, truss rod
adjustable, fret markers up to the 12th fret, good action and great
amplified sound. It really feels like an archtop.
I had the same problems with nylon string guitars until I bought this
one.
Andy D
Joe Montgomery
> I recently purchased a Yamaha APX-5NA. It's the perfect nylon string
> for an archtop player.
I'll have to try that...I have a Contreras C-4, made in Madrid, (no
electronics) spruce top that I play at home but never on a gig...if I
could find a guitar that wasn't squeaky (strings) I'd take it out on
gigs...
I will try find those Recording Strings and see if it makes a
difference.
Thanks, great thread...nice to know the are nylon strings out there as
well as strats!
JM
Gerry
> How many of you play either nylon
> string only or both? I know Tim Berens does. Who else?
I go back and forth between nylon, archtop and solid body. Been on
solid body for about a year now. Concluding about 3 years ago I played
nylon almost exclusively for about 10 years, and preceeded that with 20
years of various electrics.
Though I don't play the nylon much right now it has informed my playing
greatly, mostly in the right hand. There's usually one sitting in the
living room on the couch. So though I play the solid-body in the
office/studio for 10-20 hours a week they nylon always manages to pick
up 2-3 minimum, lazily, when waiting for a show to come one. Or end.
> Whenever I pick
> up a classical guitar in a music store it feels very awkward: the wide
> neck, high action and scale (I'm used to 24.75") make me feel as if I
> never played a guitar before. I play fingerstyle, so at least that is OK.
Same here. Classical's always feel awkward to me in the stores, I
thought, because they seem more different from guitar to guitar than a
solid body or archtop. Just my own feeling. I feel like I can pick up a
steel-string guitar and noodle for five minutes and feel like I know it
a little. I do that with a classical and I get nothing. I just won't
get a chance to get acquainted unless I play it for 30 minutes or
something. I'm not sure why.
When I was shopping for a better instrument 12 years ago (I got a
takamine 132sc) I played a number of non-electric nylons in a store but
I sat in their quite room with about five of them over a week. And
that worked for "shopping". It was surprising, though, that I couldn't
make an instinctive call on any but the cheapest of models.
> Perhaps we can start a discussion on this topic. What adjutments do you
> make? How successful are you at lowering the action? What guitars are
> recommended? What strings do you use?
I've used them all, and settled on D'Addario Pro Arte. I just realized
that that's what I'm using on all my guitars now. I see-saw'd for years
on tension and have idly settled on high-tension. I'm not sure how much
any of that stuff matters to me in the end. I bought Savarez, because
the shop I frequented sold them, but stopped at some point because I
felt like the G strings were quite inconsistent from set to set, and I
also got a few A or D strings where the wrapping started popping loose,
in the middle of the string, when they were only 15 hours old or
something. And I'm not real brutal on my strings. So they got dumped
for for quality control issues.
Otherwise, as with all strings, all guitars and all amps--if they're
not offensive it almost doesn't matter to me. If they are not a stone
in my pathway they are irrelevant. I'm stupid that way. Or focused. I'm
not sure which.
> I don't have a lot of money to spend to experiment. I'd be looking for
> a guitar with both a cut away and built in pickup, but with at least a
> decent accustic sound.
I would check out those yamaha's I encountere back in early December:
http://yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/Guitars/apx5na.pdf
They have a thinner fretboard than most classicals. Going back and
forth between such fretboard widths has not been a problem for me since
I spent so much time on the nylon. I got out my old Gibson 345 the
other day and I was stunned at how thin the fretboard felt. Generally
I guess I've had wider fretboards on the ES175, the Brian Moore i8
(solid body) and the Epihone archtop. I mean, none of them are
classical width but the transition only takes a moment.
Again if it's not a burden, it's not even luggage in my addled
thinking. But then sometimes the afternoon produces sweltering heat
and I forget to turn on the fan. I'm occupied.
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.
Pat Smith
use a Gibson Chet Atkins CEC solid body. No feedback and a pretty good sound
Nate Najar
balanced and full. It's the savarez high tension string, but it isn't
really very high tension compared to "high tension" strings from other
makers. The 520r sound good on my cabaret, but the labellas sound
better. The cabaret I have seems to respond better to higher tension
strings, but too high tension can become hard to play. So I get a
punchier tone with these labellas than i do with the savarez. The big
reason for finding other strings is the treble strings on the savarez
feel great because of the coating or whatever it is, but there's always
constant string noise. It beame real hard to record with them, so I
had to find a set of clear trebles i liked. After I decided to try
other strings I tried the labella 500p which hurt my hands and the
augustine black which i liked but were similar in sound and feel to the
savarez. The augustine blue are pretty good (higher tension than the
black) and I tried the labella 413p and for my guitar they are the
perfect string.
Nate
paul
which I have never done. the sadder part is, I play it every day and
have had it MORE THAN 10 YEARS.
--paul
geekg...@aol.com
Bob,
I've been playing nylon string since I first started playing guitar
(almost 30 years ago). I currently use a Yairi CY 127 CE (thin
classical with a cutaway and standard width fingerboard). I have a
three way pickup system that blends between a mic, a sound board
transducer and a saddle pickup. It plays and sounds wonderful. I've
had this guitar since 1989. I string this with either D'Addario Pro
Arte extra hard tension or Labella 2001 extra hard tension.
I also have a 1987 Jose Ramirez classical that has a little higher
action. This guitar doesn't have electronics. I've been going back
and forth with stringing it with Savarez 520rs or 520ps. In recent
years, I haven't used it nearly as much as it deserves to be played.
I've had more trouble finding a strat that I am comfortable playing
than finding a nylon string that I am comfortable with.
I recently bought a Takamine electric nylon for one of my brothers.
Its a nice guitar as well (plywood top), but it plays and sounds fine
(especially pluged in). It wasn't too expensive.
I think the Cabarets are great and so are the Godin multiacs (very
different guitars). I like them for different reasons, but there seems
to be a great deal of nylon strings available in all price ranges and
for all styles of music. Play a lot of guitars and bring a few friends
with you to check them out as well, you might get a few helpful
opinions about the specific guitar that you like.
Good luck,
Eric Elias
www.ericelias.net
hans van leeuwen
news:1137240830.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Perhaps we can start a discussion on this topic. What adjutments do you
> make? How successful are you at lowering the action? What guitars are
> recommended? What strings do you use? etc.?
> I don't have a lot of money to spend to experiment. I'd be looking for
> a guitar with both a cut away and built in pickup, but with at least a
> decent accustic sound.
> Looking forward to your responses, thanks.
> Bob
>
Hi Bob,
I bought the Korean Crafter CT-125CN a few months ago, this axe is giving
me wings! It's a solid body but has a natural accoustic/electric sound. It
gives me the possibility to mix flamenco/classical techniques with bebop:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=150162
The instrument gets good credentials from those who have been playing it for
years:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Crafter/CT_125C-1.html
and it's reasonably priced too!
Hans
aa...@torfree.net
gendered. A good friend has a matched male and female--both cypress
tops. The female is assertive, but the male...welll that one is
downright domineering!!! They are available from Elite Music here in
Toronto. Sorry I cannot recall the name of the luthier at the moment.
BTW, I used my 7-string Sergei de Yonge nylon last night at a packed
gig. My AT condenser mic crapped out at the sound check, so I had to
rely on unidirectional Shure mics. Oddly enough my Brazilian stuff came
across a lot better than the Breau and H. Carmichael pieces.
I had more opportunity bang the open low A for additional bottom.
The audience response was quite gratifying.
BTW #2--Gene Bertoncini is coming to Toronto next Sat. 21st--Heliconian
Hall, 14 Hazelton, 8 p.m. $25.00.
All the best,
Martin
Dallas Selman
hardest I could find - the tone is more brittle and quite suited to jazz
IMO. Also, I play it with a small pick.
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:0u3is19ne8kbcqkvb...@4ax.com...
KenK
Please explain.
I have 2 flamencos, one a negra, the other a cypress w/ pegs.
I've come to think of one as a Lady, and the other a Whore.
KenK
geekg...@aol.com
> A lot of people like these. I saw Sara Marreiros, great Fado singer, in Victoria
> BC a month ago; one of the guys in her band had a 127 he said he bought in 1982.
> He's on the third pickup for it (are you on the original?). Sounds great. Wish I
> could corner one to play.
>
> --
> John Rethorst
> jrethorst at post dot com
Hi John,
It really is a great guitar. I have not played any other classical
that has this good action without any buzzing problems. The acoustic
tone, obviously, is is a little weak with the thin body, but it's not
bad and it sounds very nice plugged in. I switched the pickup to a
fishman w/preamp about 10 years ago, but last year I switched again to
the Artec system that has a preamp blending three elements (mic, sound
board transducer and saddle transducer). It's great and allows me to
blend all three pickup sources.
Eric E.
www.ericelias.net
geekg...@aol.com
It sounds like your firend has some nice guitars. I had a cheap
flamenco a few years back, but didn't use it enough, so I got rid of
it. I would love to study more flamenco and put some time into it.
Its wonderful music.
Have fun seeing Gene B.
--Eric E.
www.ericelias.net
tomb...@jhu.edu
You went ten years without ever breaking a D string? What have you got
on there, kryptonite threads or something?
to the OP:
I also play the Buscarino. It is endlessly satisfying as an acoustic
guitar. Plugged in, sometimes I love it, sometimes I don't. That's more
the nature of piezos than any fault of the Buscarino though.
On the neck width issue, get used to it. Don't go less than 1 and
15/16, or the strings will be too close together. The nylon strings
need more room to vibrate than steel strings do. If you put nylon
strings on a neck that is too narrow, you will find it difficult to
keep from accidentally stopping a string that you want to sustain.
Don't be tempted by those skinny necked abortions they market to the
steel string wimps. You can get used to the wider neck, and there is a
good reason for it.
E7sus9
curently have a Gibson ES135 and a Godin Duet. I really, really like
the Duet for the nylon stuff. I have a pure acoustic classical, but as
you said the neck differences are so great that it can mess you up when
you're switching back and forth. It also is basically harder to play
the classical for me. So I looked around for quite awhile and really
fell in love with the Godin. The neck is slightly wider than a archtop,
but not as thick or as wide as a classical. The switchover now is
almost effortless. The great thing about the Godin is that going
through a PA or an acoustic amp with the right settings, and it
amplifies better than most real classical guitars. I truly love the way
it sounds through a PA, but the mix has to be set right. The only thing
I know of that's not bad is the Taylor NS line. I've played a number of
them and some sound better than others by quite a lot, so if you're
looking for a true open body classical you might want to try out a
number of the Taylors, but I still prefer the Godin. I've heard people
trying the Yamaha, and maybe that's a new model, since the one's I
played in the past (nylon string) didn't impress me like the Godin.
It's especially great for fingerstyle, which is all I play.
I'd recommend trying a Godin. The only down side is that the ES135 neck
is slightly longer and narrower, so there's a bit of difference when
you swap guitars. I tried a Godin Flat 5 and Montreal (there hollow
body "jazz" boxes) but although I like the neck a lot, the sound was
far from an archtop. So until I find something that matches the Godin
neck and the ES135 sound I'm staying with this combination.
As for adjustments, a real classical guitar is hard to get good action
on. I've had the Godin adjusted down to where it can go before buzzing,
although I think I can sqeak a little more out of it. But I have not
found a classical of any style or make that lets me get the action as
low as the Godin. Sometimes switching to Higher Tension strings and the
D'addario polished ones will help with both buzzing as well as string
noise. I use those on both the ES135 and the Godin (they make them for
nylon and electric).
Sorry if I sound like a Godin sales pitch, but I can only say try one.
But make sure you play it through an acoustic amp and get the settings
good and I think you'll enjoy the sound. It's much harder to feedback
the Godin as well since it's a closed body type.
The only thing I find amazing is guys like Earl Klugh play classical
exclusively for some "jazz" stuff and I admire what he can do with it.
The same goes for the speed the flamenco players get out of nylon.
You mentioned you don't have a lot of money to spend, but for what it's
worth you can find a Godin for about 800, the Taylor's for a little
less and maybe a used Yamaha or Gibson Chet Atkins for about the same.
Good luck, I love the two sounds from the different guitars and those
Bosa Nova's just don't sound right out of the Gibson any more!
RB
mr.lurke...@gmail.com
roc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Check out Danny Embrey
>
> http://dannyembrey.com/
>
> After seeing him with Karrin Allyson I was tempted to get a nylon
> string as well. He plays
> a Godin guitar
>
> http://www.godinguitars.com/
>
> Rocco
>
>
The clips on his site don't sound like nylong to me. Yet all of the
pics are of the godin nylon. Is he doing some tricky amp/eq stuff?
mr.lurke...@gmail.com
roc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Check out Danny Embrey
>
> http://dannyembrey.com/
>
> After seeing him with Karrin Allyson I was tempted to get a nylon
> string as well. He plays
> a Godin guitar
>
> http://www.godinguitars.com/
>
> Rocco
>
>
The clips on his site don't sound like nylon to me. Yet all of the pics
Norm K
while it is well made and has a wonderful feel, I couldn't get enough
of an acoustic nylon sound from it. It sounded nice through an amp,
but not like an acoustic classical. I bought an Alvarez yesterday for
about half what the Godin cost me a few years ago and I am optimistic
that it will have a more authentic classical tone when amplified. So
far I am quite pleased.
I also used to use the Godin in a duo/trio and often played standing.
Its ergonomics are great for that. These days I'm doing mostly solo
stuff sitting down, so a conventional classical shape works for me.
Norm
Keith Freeman
> up a classical guitar in a music store it feels very awkward: the wide
> neck, high action and scale (I'm used to 24.75") make me feel as if I
> never played a guitar before.
I've never even been particularly keen on the sound of classical guitar,
but I wanted something to vary the sound from constant electric archtop,
so got myself an Ibanez narrow-neck cutaway nylon-string the Xmas before
last and I've been very happy with it - there are times when I want to
play it in preference to my Jazzica! I found I took to the different feel
and playing position very quickly.
I got my local tech to lower the action as far as possible (I figured he
would know how far to go on an acoustic) and after having problems with
intonation using the expensive strings recommended by the store (Augustin
or some such) I switched to D'Addario strings (extra hard ) - the
intonation is excellent and they're very long-lasting. I play exclusively
pick-style (thick Dunlop), but I use the rounded side of the pick to get
a more finger-like sound. On the archtop I like to dig in, but on the
nylon I can get a nice feathery effect.
I use a Crafter 30w acoustic amp with just a touch of reverb, which gets
a nice warm, natural sound - not an accurate 'classical guitar' sound,
but that's actually a plus for me!
The only problem I've had was playing a pub gig, where it didn't cut
through the noise without turning it up to the point where the sound
became harsh. In future I shall only play it in a low-noise environment,
where people are really listening. We did have some 'listeners' at the
pub gig, but unfortunately they couldn't hear very much... ;-)
-Keith
Portable Changes, tips etc. at http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
e-mail only to keith DOT freeman AT wanadoo DOT nl
Michael Nickolas
Washburn) through an early 70's Twin. When I back up a singer duo
style, probably 1/2 is nylon and 1/2 is steel string, depending on the
tune. For recording nylon I use a Tacoma acoustic. It has a pickup,
but I prefer to mic it.
Michael Nickolas
www.studionineproductions.com
Mark Guest
an older model and I've never found a good guitar/amp match. I use a
Yamaha travel guitar for some of my gigging. Going back and forth
between nylon and archtop is problematic for me. String spacing fouls
me up when going to narrower archtop fingerboards. I have a
widely-spaced L-50 that helps with the string spacing issue. If it was
my favorite archtop life would be great...
I have a rough home recording of Emily (the alt version is OK, the
first one seems to be screwed up at Soundclick...artifact echos, pitch
raised from the original...very odd). Clip here:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=58433
Best,
Mark Guest