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Joe Monk's arrangement of "Over the Rainbow"

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Perry Beekman

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Jan 11, 2015, 9:04:35 AM1/11/15
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Welcome to the next installment in my 'Live In the Room' series. In this video I'm playing an arrangement of the Harold Arlen classic, "Over the Rainbow," written by my first jazz guitar teacher, Joe Monk. I was 15 when Joe gave me this arrangement to learn. Decades later, I can almost play it!

http://youtu.be/JHo5aKEr4pU

Best wishes,
Perry

Andrew Schulman

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Jan 11, 2015, 9:30:33 AM1/11/15
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Beautiful arrangement and playing, Perry. Your video making technique is so good too!

Re: the tune - long story made short. The husband of a patient I played for in the SICU a few years ago was Ernie Harburg, son of Yip Harburg. One afternoon, as I was playing near the Nurses' Station, not at a bedside, so I could listen, he told me the whole creation story of "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" (yes, that's the title Yip had, the publisher shortened it). I recommend this book Ernie co-wrote: "http://www.amazon.com/Who-Put-Rainbow-The-Wizard/dp/0472083120"

Turns out the patient, his wife, is the central figure in one of the most important chapters in the book I'm writing, about how music acts as a pain inhibitor. She is one of the world's leading authorities on the Gershwins, and I can't recommend this book enough to anyone who plays the Gershwins music. http://tinyurl.com/p3lgrwa

End of story: "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" was the capper in Deena's fully transitioning from several days of something called ICU Delirium, a result of extreme post-operative pain and a very serious and dangerous condition, into a normal recovery.

Andrew

P.S. if you knew Ernie and Deena and they read your post they'd tell you, "Perry you must write, 'the Harold Arlen/Yip Harburg classic, "Over the Rainbow". They make a point when doing instrumental arrangements of tunes to include the lyricist's name, and for good reason.

Andrew

Perry Beekman

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Jan 11, 2015, 10:11:58 AM1/11/15
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Point taken Andrew. My apologies to Yip!

thomas

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Jan 11, 2015, 10:58:37 AM1/11/15
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 9:04:35 AM UTC-5, Perry Beekman wrote:
Another nice arrangement. That's my favorite guitar yet of the ones you've featured. Why did you feel the need to buy all those others if you already had this one?

van

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Jan 11, 2015, 1:32:29 PM1/11/15
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 9:04:35 AM UTC-5, Perry Beekman wrote:
Very Nice! Monk was heavily influenced by Geo. Van Eps towards the end of his life. He used to give his students photocopies of GVE tunes, and then write out what he called inventions based on the changes to standard tunes.
He had a 'Rainbow Invention' i still have, based on OTR.
Then he'd have you write out your own invention on the same tune.

He used to be influenced by Johnny Smith, who he studied with, and i used to ask him for Smith stuff, but he got bugged because he was into GVE and didn't want to deal with Smith anymore.

Gerry

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Jan 11, 2015, 2:25:21 PM1/11/15
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For any of these great arrangements, if you guys would like to provide
a scan, I'll be glad to publish on the communal site. Spreading the
love, but, unchanged since last summer:

http://rmmgj.blogspot.com
--
Sunday is my new usenet day. All the others are for fun.

Andrew Schulman

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Jan 11, 2015, 5:01:31 PM1/11/15
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 10:11:58 AM UTC-5, Perry Beekman wrote:
> Point taken Andrew. My apologies to Yip!
>
Just to add a little to what Ernie and Deena told me. Ernie is old enough to have known many of the great songwriting teams, and Deena was very close to Ira Gershwin towards the end of his life. A great part of why her book is so great is she had almost daily access to him, and therefore all the Gershwin relevant documents to their collaboration, for three years.

Their main point is that the melodic and harmonic material was shaped to a great extent by the lyrics, and much more than I realized, there was a lot of creative crossover in the writing teams. There are places where the lyricist actually made suggestions and changes to the music, and also where the composer did the same with the lyrics.

So ever since then, especially in writing, I attribute the song arrangements I do to the team. Especially Cole Porter where I list the songs as being by Porter and Porter.

Haha. Although there were a few Porter songs where he had a co-lyricist.

Andrew

Perry Beekman

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Jan 11, 2015, 9:38:10 PM1/11/15
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> Another nice arrangement. That's my favorite guitar yet of the ones you've featured. Why did you feel the need to buy all those others if you already had this one?

Hey Thomas,

That's a fair question. Basically, I fell in love with vintage archtops after my visit with George Mell at the age of 15 and developed a huge curiosity about them. Please keep in mind that this was in the 1970's. There was no internet, and I'm not even sure that a book about archtops existed. Over the years, I would purchase them from time to time when the opportunity to procure a good instrument presented itself.

I was interested in exploring the sound of solid carved vs. plywood tops, the differences in acoustic vs. electric instruments, the feel of 24 3/4 vs 25 1/2" scale lengths, Epiphone vs, Gibson, etc, etc. Archtops were not particularly sought after, and quite affordable for many years. I still think there are many excellent values in the vintage archtop market today.

The fact is, knowing what I know now, I would have been happy if that Epi had been my only instrument. It just took me decades to know what I know now. I hope that helps. These videos are my attempt to share a bit of my journey with the guitars and music that I love so dearly with others.

Thanks for your interest!

Best wishes,
Perry

van

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Jan 12, 2015, 12:37:03 PM1/12/15
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Don't know how to scan.

Bill Godwin

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Jan 12, 2015, 12:52:02 PM1/12/15
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If you have a multipurpose printer it may allow you to scan. Do you?

Gerry

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Jan 12, 2015, 1:17:55 PM1/12/15
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On 2015-01-12 17:37:01 +0000, van said:

>> For any of these great arrangements, if you guys would like to provide
>> a scan, I'll be glad to publish on the communal site. Spreading the
>> love, but, unchanged since last summer:
>>
>> http://rmmgj.blogspot.com
>
> Don't know how to scan.

Oh well.

SteveK

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Jan 12, 2015, 2:01:41 PM1/12/15
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Thank you for posting your videos, Perry. Great playing all around. And it's always fun to see a nice archtop collection.

I'm glad you mentioned your studies with Joe Monk. I saw that you were from NY and I had been curious if you had studied with anyone well-known. Your voicings are certainly hipper and prettier than what is found in a lot of books.

I definitely see/hear the GVE influence in this arrangement; but, I also hear a little Johnny Smith, too. The line around 1:54, going into the 2nd half of the bridge sounds like JS to me.

BTW, the nicest electric tone I think I ever had was with an old 40s or 50s Epi ZRD, too. Mine was a mess. The finish was stripped & maybe french-polished by an amateur. None of the hardware was original, or even from Epiphone. The top was routed for HBs. It had a nicely-repaired heel crack. I sold after about 10 years because it fed back horribly. But it sounded great in a living room with flatwournds.

SK

Perry Beekman

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Jan 12, 2015, 5:53:47 PM1/12/15
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Hey Steve, Thanks for your kind words. I had the great fortune to study with a number of great jazz players in the NY area over the years. In addition to Joe Monk, I had meaningful ongoing studies with Lennie Tristano, Bernard Addison, Sal Salvador and Remo Palmier.

I love that contrapuntal line at 1:54!

Best wishes,
Perry

debru...@gmail.com

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Aug 15, 2015, 8:28:58 AM8/15/15
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 2:25:21 PM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
Hi Gerry,
I also studied with Joe Monk in the 70's and again in the 90's. What a special guy he was. Would you be able to share his Some Where Over the Rainbow invention and his arrangments with me? I have about 30 of his arrangments. Thanks
Bruce

Gerry

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Aug 15, 2015, 11:25:36 AM8/15/15
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On 2015-08-15 12:28:56 +0000, debru...@gmail.com said:

>> For any of these great arrangements, if you guys would like to provide
>> a scan, I'll be glad to publish on the communal site. Spreading the
>> love, but, unchanged since last summer:
>>
>> http://rmmgj.blogspot.com
>
> I also studied with Joe Monk in the 70's and again in the 90's. What a
> special guy he was. Would you be able to share his Some Where Over the
> Rainbow invention and his arrangments with me? I have about 30 of his
> arrangments.

I have none, so I can't share any with you. But if you'd like to share
the ones you have with others, I'd be glad to present them on the rmmgj
blogspot. Just scan and email them to me. I'll drop you a note with my
email address.

Does someone else out there have Joe Monk's "Somewhere Over the
Rainbow" arrangement. If so, and if you'd like to share it, please let
us know.


Steve Freides

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Aug 17, 2015, 7:46:32 PM8/17/15
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debru...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Gerry,
> I also studied with Joe Monk in the 70's and again in the 90's. What
> a special guy he was. Would you be able to share his Some Where Over
> the Rainbow invention and his arrangments with me? I have about 30
> of his arrangments. Thanks Bruce

Is anyone else bothered by the G bass on the initial C chord? I think I
understand it - G bass goes up to F and then down to E, and if the G was
in higher octave at the beginning, it would be too close to melody's C.
But it still sounds 'off' to me.

-S-


Bill Godwin

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Aug 17, 2015, 8:30:53 PM8/17/15
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Not me

I like and use that voicing quite a bit : )

Bill

Stringswinger

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Aug 18, 2015, 2:31:03 AM8/18/15
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Perry, You, the guitar and the arrangement all sound great! I studied back in my New York City Days (1970's) with Allen Hanlon, who was heavily influenced by GVE. I remember how affordable archtops were in the early 70's. I wish I had a time machine to go back and buy a few. I did eventually obtain a couple of vintage D'Angelicos. Here is a video of my swing band with me playing my 1948 D'Angelico:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpqLy_2nkVs

Cheers,

Marc
www.hotclubpacific.com

ott...@hotmail.com

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Aug 18, 2015, 9:38:39 AM8/18/15
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> Is anyone else bothered by the G bass on the initial C chord? I think I
> understand it - G bass goes up to F and then down to E, and if the G was
> in higher octave at the beginning, it would be too close to melody's C.
> But it still sounds 'off' to me.
>
> -S-

I didn't notice and it didn't bother me, it's a nice full sound, and I guess Joe didn't want to use the Root in the Bass when it's already in the melody?
Bg

Mr. Maj6th

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Aug 19, 2015, 11:31:59 AM8/19/15
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I had quite a discussion with a pianist once, it lasted about fifteen
minutes. He insisted that a C6th couldn't be voiced with the A as the
lowest (or bass) note, he insisted that if it was, it would be an
Am7th. It must have seemed to him all voicings were stand-alone
harmonies existing in a vacuum, there was no context. As an aside, he
aslo held the belief that most guitarists had no understanding of
chord construction.

Maj6th

Gerry

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Aug 19, 2015, 1:36:37 PM8/19/15
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On 2015-08-19 15:31:57 +0000, Mr. Maj6th said:

> I had quite a discussion with a pianist once, it lasted about fifteen
> minutes.

Take the rest of the day off.

> He insisted that a C6th couldn't be voiced with the A as the
> lowest (or bass) note, he insisted that if it was, it would be an
> Am7th. It must have seemed to him all voicings were stand-alone
> harmonies existing in a vacuum, there was no context. As an aside, he
> aslo held the belief that most guitarists had no understanding of
> chord construction.

I think I know that guy! I've had a 15 minute conversation with him
while he inhabited the bodies of 6 or 7 other pianists.

He's right, of course, as long as one only identifys notes to find the
harmonic structure--not harmonic mechanism. Similarly any harmony that
features a moving bass line, or a non-diatonic leading tone in the
melody could be analyzed for stupidity as well.

That said, I have no problem with the 5th in the bass that starts the
"Over the Rainbow" arrangement, but I certainly have no problems with a
tune starting on the root with a root in the melody.

thomas

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Aug 19, 2015, 7:22:20 PM8/19/15
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 9:04:35 AM UTC-5, Perry Beekman wrote:
Did Joe write it for pick-style?

Steve Freides

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Aug 19, 2015, 10:19:10 PM8/19/15
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That's not a reason; it's done all the time and it sounds fine.

-S-


Steve Freides

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Aug 19, 2015, 10:29:51 PM8/19/15
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I have a couple of jazz piano students, and we are forever pretending to
be in different combinations of instruments because there is no one
right way to play a chord. If the pianist is playing by themselves,
most of the time they'll voice the chords in root position or however
they're voiced in the lead sheet; if there's a bass player, then not.
If they're by themselves, then they'll also be playing the melody; if
not, e.g., they've got a trumpet or sax or other melody instrument
player, then likely not. And what you do when you've got a bass player
and a sax player both is, of course, different than what you do if you
only have the one of them.

Obvious to a working musician, maybe, but something that needs to be
explained to a student who's new to playing from lead sheets.

And if there's a guitar player as well, then that makes it different yet
again. And so it goes - you have to listen and to play as part of
whatever whole you're a part of at the moment.

Your choices are necessarily more limited on the guitar than on the
piano but the principles are the same.

And yeah, if I'm playing by myself and the A is in the bass, I'm calling
it A minor 7, and if the C is in the bass and I'm playing by myself, I'm
calling it C6. And if there's a bass player, then what I'm calling is
will depend on what note the bass player is playing. There is no way
that A-C-E-G with the A in the bass sounds like a C6 chord, and I can't
imagine a context that changes that but if you've got an example, please
let me know what it is and I'll be glad to reconsider.

-S-.


SB

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Aug 27, 2015, 10:19:11 PM8/27/15
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Beautiful tune. Arrangements are fine, but they are not jazz to me. IMO it sounds fine for what it is however that tune can be worked into far greater depth and art. Plus, arrangements are easy. I'd rather here the head and then some improve over advanced chord changes and original cadences with the tune. If anyone wants the score then just transcribe it from the video: should take an hour. To get art we've got to get dark and get light, intermix the two in order to transcend the mundane and stun the listener with something unbounded and present that which destroys duality. Just my two cents. Kudos Perry. You've got that down so make it better and better and better !!!!

Bill Williams

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Aug 28, 2015, 10:47:00 AM8/28/15
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On Tuesday, 18 August 2015 07:31:03 UTC+1, Stringswinger wrote:
>Here is a video of my swing band with me playing my 1948 D'Angelico:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpqLy_2nkVs

Guitar sounds great, Marc, and there's a really enjoyable late-Django vibe.

Bill Godwin

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Aug 28, 2015, 12:28:37 PM8/28/15
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I'd like to hear an example of your art on this !!

Bill

Gerry

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Aug 28, 2015, 1:13:17 PM8/28/15
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On 2015-08-28 02:19:09 +0000, SB said:

> Beautiful tune. Arrangements are fine, but they are not jazz to me.

That's the beauty and the silliness of life and art: Everybody gets to
pick what "jazz" is to them, or "beauty" or an "omelette".

> IMO it sounds fine for what it is however that tune can be worked into
> far greater depth and art. Plus, arrangements are easy.

Sure, arrangements are easy, so is making wine or getting a degree in
statistics. Barry Galbraith, Joe Monk and many other significant
guitarists taught students by having them work their way through
arrangements and learning the voicings, voice-leading and timing
necessary to produce it. I still think it's a lot better for students
than vague generalizations about what's easy and what's jazz and so
forth. I personally think that there is enough doodling and sequential
lick-assembly masquerading as "improv" to make it more frequently dull
than interesting, particularly by a solo guitarist. But I'm playing
nothing but solo guitar right now so I may have a different perspective.

> I'd rather here the head and then some improve over advanced chord
> changes and original cadences with the tune.

Me, I'd rather not hear vague criticism about abstractions as if it
were an honest critique of a performance. Clearly neither of us gets
what we want.

> If anyone wants the score then just transcribe it from the video:
> should take an hour.

There's a cost-benefit analysis to be considered. Spending an hour
transcribing a piece like "Over the Rainbow" sounds like a waste of
time. Why not just write your own? The answer is, it might provide
you an interesting vantage point in to another's thinking and playing.
Would that be worth an hour of your time. If so, please do it. I once
found transcribing entertaining and educational, after about age 35 it
was just boring and useless. In any case, I think the goal here would
be for you to make music more to your liking, rather than instruct
Perry on how to do it for you. It really is a bit presumptuous.

> To get art we've got to get dark and get light, intermix the two in
> order to transcend the mundane and stun the listener with something
> unbounded and present that which destroys duality.

I think working on an instructional arrangement seems inherently more
useful and educational than palaver about dark and light.

Mr. Maj6th

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Aug 28, 2015, 1:41:17 PM8/28/15
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On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:19:09 -0700 (PDT), SB <simon...@cox.net>
wrote:
I agree with about everything you said here. I have several friends
that have worked out great guitar arrangements, you go to see them
perform and it is always the exact same arrangement. To me this is
something that any capable guitarist can do, and I also, do not
consider it jazz.

I would also say that all guitarist should learn to play examples of
great arrangements, but it should be used as a springboard to explore
and understand the composition and not to plagerize the arrangement.

I went to hear the son of a famous guitar (now deceased) and he played
his ass off, but, they were all his father's sound, chord shapes, and
licks nearly note for note off his father's records.

I would much prefer to travel to see the Mona Lisa in a museum, as
opposed to being sated by a photograph someone else had taken while
they traveled there.


Maj6th







Maj6th

Gerry

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Aug 28, 2015, 2:09:53 PM8/28/15
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On 2015-08-28 17:41:14 +0000, Mr. Maj6th said:

> I have several friends that have worked out great guitar arrangements,
> you go to see them perform and it is always the exact same arrangement.
> To me this is something that any capable guitarist can do, and I also,
> do not consider it jazz.

I know that we (you and I) generally define jazz with improv as a
defining component. Nevertheless a cut-and-paste performance of "Satin
Doll" and "A-Train" is, and will always be, considered a style of music
called "jazz".

What about the guys that have worked out great guitar arrangements, and
when you see them perform them they always do them just a little bit
differently? Is that jazz? Or do they need to reinvent it every
night? Perhaps the primary qualifying element is that they should
"take a solo" in between two iterations of what is pretty much the same
head as always? And if so, does that imply that it must be single-line
solo to really qualify as bona-fide "improv"?

> I went to hear the son of a famous guitar (now deceased) and he played
> his ass off, but, they were all his father's sound, chord shapes, and
> licks nearly note for note off his father's records.

Damn, I'd like to know who you're talking about! It better not be Doug Raney!

In any case, I've heard it posited that we are all just a compilation
of licks and lines we've played all our life. If you record eight of
one guy's solos and bust them up in transcription, you find 80% of the
material is the same line or lick or figure that they play in all their
solos. Certainly Charlie Parker played some figures ad infinitum, and
when I hear a Parker clone do it, it becomes irritating pretty rapidly.

So maybe the real question is this one: Do you enjoy that kind of solo
or that kind of line? If so, I'm not sure that the problem isn't just
an semantic abstraction.


Mr. Maj6th

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Aug 28, 2015, 3:21:27 PM8/28/15
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 11:09:51 -0700, Gerry <add...@domain.com> wrote:

>On 2015-08-28 17:41:14 +0000, Mr. Maj6th said:
>
>> I have several friends that have worked out great guitar arrangements,
>> you go to see them perform and it is always the exact same arrangement.
>> To me this is something that any capable guitarist can do, and I also,
>> do not consider it jazz.
>I know that we (you and I) generally define jazz with improv as a
>defining component. Nevertheless a cut-and-paste performance of "Satin
>Doll" and "A-Train" is, and will always be, considered a style of music
>called "jazz".

Sadly, this true.

>What about the guys that have worked out great guitar arrangements, and
>when you see them perform them they always do them just a little bit
>differently? Is that jazz? Or do they need to reinvent it every
>night? Perhaps the primary qualifying element is that they should
>"take a solo" in between two iterations of what is pretty much the same
>head as always? And if so, does that imply that it must be single-line
>solo to really qualify as bona-fide "improv"?
>
>> I went to hear the son of a famous guitar (now deceased) and he played
>> his ass off, but, they were all his father's sound, chord shapes, and
>> licks nearly note for note off his father's records.
>
>Damn, I'd like to know who you're talking about! It better not be Doug Raney!
>
>In any case, I've heard it posited that we are all just a compilation
>of licks and lines we've played all our life. If you record eight of
>one guy's solos and bust them up in transcription, you find 80% of the
>material is the same line or lick or figure that they play in all their
>solos. Certainly Charlie Parker played some figures ad infinitum, and
>when I hear a Parker clone do it, it becomes irritating pretty rapidly.

The same could be said about music itself, there is a finite numbers
of notes that can be played.

>
>So maybe the real question is this one: Do you enjoy that kind of solo
>or that kind of line? If so, I'm not sure that the problem isn't just
>an semantic abstraction.

Language is a semantic abstraction; then it becomes, how far does one
go to parse a statement?.
>

thomas

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Aug 28, 2015, 3:52:33 PM8/28/15
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On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:41:17 PM UTC-4, Maj6th wrote:
>
> I went to hear the son of a famous guitar (now deceased) and he played
> his ass off, but, they were all his father's sound, chord shapes, and
> licks nearly note for note off his father's records.

Roberts or Green? (I'm assuming not Koonse.)


Mr. Maj6th

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Aug 28, 2015, 4:01:41 PM8/28/15
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If you think I will answer this on a public forum, you are a crazy
man!

Maj6th

Gerry

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Aug 28, 2015, 4:24:24 PM8/28/15
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I didn't know either of them had sons that played. I guess that's a
good thing.

thomas

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Aug 28, 2015, 5:23:19 PM8/28/15
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I assumed Roberts anyway.

SB

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Aug 29, 2015, 1:40:03 PM8/29/15
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You understand jazz as I see it Maj6th. It is improvised.

I think on the back cover of Kind of Blue there is commentary on "jazz." And I've always believed it to be true. It went something like: Jazz is Chinese silk painting. Spontaneous creativity, never looking back to correct mistakes, full of risks, and only the greatest musicians can do it. So it is a never ending goal of mine: to improve, to get better, to move people, and risk mistakes along the way. Sometimes jazz does not work, sometimes it is so beautiful that people are stunned. Arrangements alone are not jazz. Improvisation, to me, is jazz. As far as arrangements go, I'm fine with a head and finale, but they should be mind blowing, and not ordinary. Hendrix did this in rock all the time. Take "The Star Spangled Banner," a beautiful song much like "Over The Rainbow" in that it is commonly known by everyone. Hendrix, at Woodstock, through in his intense genius, improvised the sounds of bombs and rockets, explosions, and death. He took a beautiful tune and did a hell of a lot more with it then have a minor low and major lift (Cohen). He reached into his soul and pulled out the Viet Nam war and anyone who "got it" was moved to tears. Our precious freedom is drenched in blood, the banner yet waved. Mix up the beauty of light in melody with horror of darkness in harmony and art is revealed: all of the mixed emotions of war vs. love/peace vs. country, etc. That is how we get over the rainbow as artists. I've seen jazz guitarists so good that they can play a common tune off the top of their heads, add fugal lines, throw in counterpoint, and play beautiful licks between the head and finale, instantly. It is all improvised. Don't ask them to write it down because they can't. It happened in the moment and you are either there in that moment or you missed it. Best wishes to everyone !!

Mr. Maj6th

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Aug 29, 2015, 3:00:14 PM8/29/15
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On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 10:39:58 -0700 (PDT), SB <simon...@cox.net>
While we are on the subject, I also rail against categorizing songs. I
do not believe that there are jazz songs, country songs, folk songs,
etc.; they are simply songs, with a melody played over a repeated set
of harmonic support intervals. I believe almost all vocalists make
this mistake. We all have been told by someone, "I am a jazz singer,"
and wondered exactly what that meant.

Maj6th


Gerry

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Aug 29, 2015, 3:20:53 PM8/29/15
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On 2015-08-29 19:00:09 +0000, Mr. Maj6th said:

> While we are on the subject, I also rail against categorizing songs. I
> do not believe that there are jazz songs, country songs, folk songs,
> etc.; they are simply songs, with a melody played over a repeated set
> of harmonic support intervals.

Well your job is to rail, and my job is to wonder why. I know that
categorizing songs (whether accurately or not) makes it much easier to
discuss them, sort them, understand them.

"Kookaburra " is a folk song.
"Proud Mary" is a rock song.
"I've Got You Under My Skin" is a jazz song.
"Sweet Little Angel" is a blues song.

I don't see a problem. Forcing every song into one specific unchanging
category--that's more of an issue.

> I believe almost all vocalists make this mistake. We all have been
> told by someone, "I am a jazz singer," and wondered exactly what that
> meant.

I understand it to mean they prefer to sing songs from a category you
don't believe in. Surely you've worked with singers who could perform
appropriately in folk, rock and blues, but not in jazz, right? That's
where they are!

Jazzer

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Aug 29, 2015, 4:43:12 PM8/29/15
to
I get where both of you guys are coming from.

>>While we are on the subject, I also rail against categorizing songs. I
>> do not believe that there are jazz songs, country songs, folk songs,
>> etc.; they are simply songs, with a melody played over a repeated set
>> of harmonic support intervals.

If we substituted 'style' for 'song' I think we could quickly come to
an understanding and agreement.

When a song is written, it is the 'style' that we hear first.

Folk, rock, blues, classical, jazz... they are all styles.

The beauty of jazz is that you can take a 'folk song', a 'country song',
a 'classical piece' etc. and play jazz (improvise) over the changes
in a 'jazz' style.

So yes, let's not categorize songs, but let's certainly categorize
styles and place the song in the appropriate style category.






















Gerry

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Aug 29, 2015, 4:47:40 PM8/29/15
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For me it's about whatever makes communication easier. Especially for
novices, or for who play/work in various forms it gets tiresome
"educating" them into my endlessly shifting preferred descriptors.
It's much easier to try to tune in to what they mean and go from there.
Clearly if they continue to refer to the the "big fat instrument" I'll
tell them it's a string bass or they keep calling it the "sad key",
I'll tell them it's called "minor".

Jazzer

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Aug 30, 2015, 11:53:13 PM8/30/15
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On 8/29/2015 4:47 PM, Gerry wrote:
>
>
> For me it's about whatever makes communication easier. Especially for
> novices, or for who play/work in various forms it gets tiresome
> "educating" them into my endlessly shifting preferred descriptors. It's
> much easier to try to tune in to what they mean and go from there.
> Clearly if they continue to refer to the the "big fat instrument" I'll
> tell them it's a string bass or they keep calling it the "sad key", I'll
> tell them it's called "minor".


Well if you're simply trying to make communication easier, then stay
with them!

If they want to call it a "big fat instrument" or "sad key" and you
understand them, let them!

But if you want to teach them, that's a completely different story.


mcrip...@my.fit.edu

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Oct 11, 2015, 9:43:46 PM10/11/15
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 9:04:35 AM UTC-5, Perry Beekman wrote:
> Welcome to the next installment in my 'Live In the Room' series. In this video I'm playing an arrangement of the Harold Arlen classic, "Over the Rainbow," written by my first jazz guitar teacher, Joe Monk. I was 15 when Joe gave me this arrangement to learn. Decades later, I can almost play it!
>
> http://youtu.be/JHo5aKEr4pU
>
> Best wishes,
> Perry

Thanks for posting and playing so beautifully. Here is a Joe Monk website I found.http://www.joemonk.com/interface/

Fred Scholl

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Mar 15, 2016, 11:35:53 PM3/15/16
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Sorry to be late to the discussion.

I, too, studied with Joe Monk as a lad in the 70's.

Sadly, few of his handwritten arrangements have survived the years.

Does anyone have any besides the ones posted at joemonk.com ?

Particularly any of his "inventions"...

Thanks in advance!

william...@gmail.com

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Jan 31, 2018, 1:49:44 PM1/31/18
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Wierd reading and listening too all of this. I periodically pick up my dad’s old Gibson and play a few songs.
Bill Monk
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