Saw John Mcglaughlin and the 4th Dimension
JimKroger
Mcglaughlin CD. He is a monster with Mahavishnu Orchestra, yes.....no
need explaining why I don't listen to that.
In my opinion, his current music is quite progressed since those days.
I think he's about 68 now and definitely the wisened old guy look. As
far as his band the 4th dimension, they are beyond amazement.
But John's playing really, really got me. And it's not that the band
is more subdued, which compared to Mahavishun they are, but the music
seems more thought out, composed, structured, and intellectual in
overall form as opposed to "intellectually outside" in terms of each
player as I think of Mahavishnu...... in for me a very good way. I am
buying his new CDs and his DVD live concert in Belgrade all with the
4th dimension. I started searcing his old stuff and am also going to
get Electric Guitarist.
My listening (guitar) is most of the usual suspects, with about 25%
being Ed Bickert and Lorne Lofsky's "This is New" (I have several
copies), and pretty heavy Pat Martino contribution. JM's more recent
stuff is going to be a big addition.
If you can find a place to listen to clips off of their new CD "To the
One" you'll see what I mean.
Jim
Paul
I went to see John too, even though I'm not really
a huge fan of his. I did have a copy of Electric Guitarist,
which I recommend, and his work on Bitches Brew, but
not really much else.
He still plays pretty accurately and fast, especially
for a 68 year old. But I was reminded that I admired him
mainly for technique, which is emotionally limited, I have
to admit. There is only so many super fast scale runs
you can listen to before it gets a bit old.
The highlight of the show for me was when the
keyboard player got on the second drum set, and
traded drum solos and licks with the main drummer.
Really hot main drummer: Mark Mondesir. Incredible.
The 4th Dimension as a whole did not work for me.
Just because you have the best individual players on an
All Star football team, this doesn't guarantee the best
chemistry. I didn't hear the bassist really lock with the
drummer or keys. Maybe it was an off day, but it was a
far cry from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P-EBcF1u9Y
Mahavishnu was really something special. A keen
sense of space and openness, which is rare in a band
of such huge players....
Nate Najar
he did a record about 10 year or more ago called "the heart of
things".... that was the first I had heard of him that I really really
dug. i have a bunch of mahavishnu stuff on vinyl and I've listened to
it, but none of it really spoke to me. that heart of things record
was pretty nice though. and he did an organ trio record with joey d
and elvin that is also fantastic.
N
Dan Adler
> On Dec 16, 6:13 pm, JimKroger <jkk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Out of my few hundred jazz CDs (lots of guitar), I do not own a John
> > Mcglaughlin CD. He is a monster with Mahavishnu Orchestra, yes.....no
> > need explaining why I don't listen to that.
>
> things".... that was the first I had heard of him that I really really
It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of direct and indirect jazz
guitar bashing that goes on here...
I propose to rename the group wreck.music.makers.guitar.jazz or if you
prefer the yiddish version dreck.music.makers.guitar.jazz
blackcat
'............especially for a 68 year old'. Could you expand upon this
please?
Johnny Asia
wrote:
>
>It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of direct and indirect jazz
>guitar bashing that goes on here...
>
It's called Genius Envy, an all too common disorder among
guitarists.
Johnny
Paul K
How many guitar players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer: 50: One to do it, and 49 to stand around and sneer "I can do
that better and faster."
--
Paul K
http://www.soundclick.com/paulkirk
http://www.youtube.com/user/fibrationboy
http://mypage.iu.edu/~pkirk/
Peter
<5b4f868a-7a88-49d0...@29g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
blackcat <blac...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
Thanks for that brief review of the 4th Dimension. Tried to catch them a
few times but my monthly gig always seemed to materialize on the same
date. McLaughlin has probably been the biggest musical influence for me
over my first 15 years or so.
And to this day 'Birds of Fire' still gives me goosebumps. While in
terms of creative output McLaughlin has been quite prolific over the
years sometime I lost my emotional connection with it. I have been
trying to analyze and rationalize why 'Birds of Fire' speaks to me while
'Heart of Things' or '4th Dimension' doesn't but I can't come up with
any good explanation.
OTOH, of his recent stuff I really do like the '5 Peace Band' live CDs.
The original Mahavishnu tunes had such a raw and almost simplistic
quality (once you get past the fact of the odd meters and tonal stuff -
which actually sounds pretty bluesy to me these days). Maybe it's a
personal preference for me but I like small, compact ideas that the
players can shape in a performance. Much of the 4th Dimension stuff
sounds almost artificially complicated. Also (please forgive me...),
there is so much virtuosity (or noodling?) going on. It seems as I get
older my tolerance for 30 minute bass solos has vanished. But that is
probably my very personal problem with most jazz as I get older. I am
starting to understand why some of the older players just wouldn't call
me for gigs when I moved to town 20 years ago (ok, they still don't).
Oh well, whatever. Yes, Mahavishnu was something special... as you said
"A keen sense of space and openness". I have been trying to write
'songs' like that all my life and out comes all this garbage.
In respect to the '68 year old' thing I can only mention how my mother
thought that you just DON'T play distorted guitar when you are past 50.
Peter
--
Just 'Call the Police' when you see a UFO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iBbXroWbfU
Or post it to my blog:
www.mrgullible.com
Frisbieinstein
As far as Mahavishnu goes, forget the released recordings. The many
live bootleg tapes are the real deal.
I heard a recording in a nightclub. I didn't know who it was but
thought it was the best fusion thing since Mahavishnu so I asked. 4th
Dimension. Mark Mondesir is the bomb, the star really. The bass
player has some major chops.
Graham
> I heard a recording in a nightclub. I didn't know who it was but
> thought it was the best fusion thing since Mahavishnu so I asked. 4th
> Dimension. Mark Mondesir is the bomb, the star really. The bass
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think I've mentioned it before, but I used to see Mark Mondesir
regularly in the 80s as he was the house drummer at Peter Ind's Tenor
Clef jazz club. Mark looked about 12 years old then (doesn't look a
whole lot older now!) and he played with the same fire as he does
now. He's one of those drummers that just puts a massive energy boost
into the whole band no matter who he's playing with.
Have to admit I'm not so keen on Mahavishnu/fusion stuff now as I used
to be, but I do like the 4th Dimension CD.
Graham
ecj
I'll preface this by saying that I absolutely love McLaughlin and
would rank him among my top 10 favorite guitarists of all time, but I
don't know that it should really be surprising that some people aren't
that in to his work in a jazz guitar focused newsgroup. Call his
music what you will, it clearly isn't bebop, and it moved away from
classic jazz orchestration and composition a long time ago. If your
favorite stuff is swing, or hard bop, or even post-bop Coltrane or
Davis, I don't know that you're necessarily going to dig the really
weird song structures and electronic instrumentation of a lot of
McLaughlin's music.
There's a difference between saying that something isn't your thing
(which the original poster did), and saying that he "sucks", or
bashing him. If we're not allowed to discuss what we do or don't like
with fellow musicians, what's the point of talking at all?
Gerry
> On Dec 16, 11:17 pm, Dan Adler <d...@danadler.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 16, 11:52 pm, Nate Najar <n...@natenajar.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 16, 6:13 pm, JimKroger <jkk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Out of my few hundred jazz CDs (lots of guitar), I do not own a John
>>>> Mcglaughlin CD. He is a monster with Mahavishnu Orchestra, yes.....no
>>>> need explaining why I don't listen to that.
>>
>>> he did a record about 10 year or more ago called "the heart of
>>> things".... that was the first I had heard of him that I really really
>>
>> It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of direct and indirect jazz
>> guitar bashing that goes on here...
>>
>> I propose to rename the group wreck.music.makers.guitar.jazz or if you
>> prefer the yiddish version dreck.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> I'll preface this by saying that I absolutely love McLaughlin and
> would rank him among my top 10 favorite guitarists of all time, but I
> don't know that it should really be surprising that some people aren't
> that in to his work in a jazz guitar focused newsgroup. Call his
> music what you will, it clearly isn't bebop, and it moved away from
> classic jazz orchestration and composition a long time ago. If your
> favorite stuff is swing, or hard bop, or even post-bop Coltrane or
> Davis, I don't know that you're necessarily going to dig the really
> weird song structures and electronic instrumentation of a lot of
> McLaughlin's music.
A number of people are big fusion fans, not knowing Robben Ford (or was
it Bill Connors) was seen as noteworthy. There's a number like me that
are crazy about Brazilian and Latin musics. Classical and other styles
comes up all the time. I think swing/bop is highly revered by a large
group of people here though.
> There's a difference between saying that something isn't your thing
> (which the original poster did), and saying that he "sucks", or
> bashing him. If we're not allowed to discuss what we do or don't like
> with fellow musicians, what's the point of talking at all?
I didn't see any reference to bashing/sucking; but maybe it was
trikk-noise that's filtered out. I'm surprised we're already back to
the discussion of how much genuflection we should make before other
people's idols. I thought we'd just hit that a lick like a week ago.
In a minutem someone will say they've never been "moved" by Burrell and
we'll be playing one of rmmgj's classic hits...
HOW DARE YOU! You couldn't pick up Burrell's dry-cleaning! :-)
--
-- Gerry