Fender Princeton Chorus revisited
OASYSCO
sibling the Ultimate Chorus. Whenever I test drive guitars at stores, I try to
play through a PC as a sort of benchmark.
Even so, I have never owned one - until recently. I picked up a late 80's to
early 90's PC and it sounds great. At 38lbs, it is by far my lightest amp. For
practice (and I would surmise) small/intimate gigs, it seems to have plenty
enough volume. Certainly for practice is has WAY more juice than I need, but at
only 25 (solid state) watts per side, it would probably need a mic + PA with a
full band.
Ah, but the lower volume tone is excellent. My (Squire) Strat sounds good
thorugh it while my 70's Electra HR Artist sounds even better, but my Epi JP
with those SD '59 PAF's sounds the best - nice 'n thick 'n jazzy.
The chorus is excellent - much better 'n the UC and as good as my ex-Fender
Acoustasonic JR. The reverb is strong, but like most SS Fender's a bit over the
edge at 5 and above. That's OK as I don't want surf tones in my jazz :)
The amp can do clean blues easily, too. The overdrive is OK, certainly
tolerable - even serviceable - with some tweaking of the EQ settings. It is
better than I have heard on most lower wattage Fender SS amps. It'll do dirtier
blues A-OK. Heavy O/D? Eh...
Nice amp and they seem to retain their value as long as you don't pay full
retail of over $500.
Greg
P.S. I really didn't mean this as a review, but more of a "first blush".
Therefore I left out features and switches and such.
Dick Schneiders
>retail of over $500.
>
>Greg
Greg,
We seem to always agree on the gear we like and use. I have had a Fender
Princeton Chorus for 5 or 6 years and also really like it for just about every
guitar and type of music. I never play in a band setting so the limited power
is not a problem for me. Generally when my wife and I play gigs (just guitars
and vocals) we take a PA system with us, but I have used the Chorus amp
sometimes if there is already a set up for her vocals in place. It works great
and sounds wonderful. I don't use the chorus function often, but when I do I
love the lush sound that it produces. I always seem to miss having it when we
play using some other amplification. I got mine new on sale for under $400 and
it has been well worth that.
Dick Schneiders
JoeNez
to a friends house to jam I carry it along. Afterall he plays through an early 70's
Twin and I need to offer a bit of competition. It competes nicely.
But I've noticed, now that I've got an archtop jazzer, that if I turn the chorus up
past 5 or 6 (while going for that Mike Stern thing) it starts to get a little
dirty. It never did that with my 335. I turn to your expertise, as I've read many
of your reviews, and ask if you think different speakers may help alleviate that
problem, if so what would you recommend, or maybe on the archtop I should try some
flats.
joe nez
Christophe Pinson
after i tried in the store. It was the only
affordable amp that would give the tone I was
looking for, i though. I was deep in Abercrombie
stuff at that time, and using chorus very often.
When i wanted to change my sound for something
darker ( i was in Pat Martino then ! ), I found
I could get it at low volume ( say before 4 ),
although a bit harsh , but not at gig volumes.I
've never been able to find a satisfying sound
with this amp during gigs ( I mean unmiked ). I
played with drums, bass, two saxes piano, and
sometimes trombones. The only way for me to cut
through was to use a slightly overdriven sound,
with a lot of highs and I did'nt like it. As the
amp has no speaker out, there was no solution. I
finally sold it . Of course, now I sometimes
regret it : there are a lot of funny tweakings
with the "limiter" knob. I remember a setting
found on HC that went limiter on 5, drive on 5 as
well, lots of mids, no treble, little bass. With
the SD Jeff beck on bridge, it was really cool. I
also remember you don't know when the amp is on or
off, for it's quieter than silence. This amp gave
me a strange bitter feeling of something that
could have been really great, but wasn't , because
of the speakers maybe, or lack of bottom end , I
don't know. Now, if I were into country, I'd buy
it again, because it really shines with single
coil.In fact, i think it was designed for single
coils, but maybe it's just me.
OASYSCO
>over
>to a friends house to jam I carry it along. Afterall he plays through an
>early 70's
>Twin and I need to offer a bit of competition. It competes nicely.
>
>But I've noticed, now that I've got an archtop jazzer, that if I turn the
>chorus up
>past 5 or 6 (while going for that Mike Stern thing) it starts to get a little
>dirty. It never did that with my 335. I turn to your expertise, as I've read
>many
>of your reviews, and ask if you think different speakers may help alleviate
>that
>problem, if so what would you recommend, or maybe on the archtop I should try
>some
>flats.
My ex-Fender Ultimate Chorus did that. My PC doesn't, though the chorus is a
bit much over 1/2 way up - at least for my tastes.
I'm not sure what to tell you, but I DO know what you are talking about. I jsut
figured it was the amp when that happened.
I really don't think new speaks will help. How much stronger are the pups on
your jazz archtop than the ES-335?
The ES-335 is probably inherently brighter than your archtop whcih may make the
ES-335 sound better through the PC.
Greg
Greg
JoeNez
thinking about things I never thought of thinking about, if you know what I mean.
Alot of the technical aspects discussed here are relatively new to me. So I don't
necessarily have the technical savy that most others in this group display. I
haven't been a player for along time and much has changed relative to equipment in
the intervening years. When I was into this back in the late 60s, everyone set
their amp on 10 and wailed. We didn't know anything about tone, pickup output,
etc., so please excuse my shortcomings.
That being said... The archtop is a low end Ibanez -- AF 80, which is actually a
pretty fair piece for the pittance I paid for it. I am certainly impressed with the
sound and playability of it as well as the fit and finish. (It is my first foray
into the world of deep-bodied archtops). I believe it has their super 58 pups. The
335, of course, has the Gibson classic hummies. How they stack up to one another I
can only go by what I hear. The 335 is, as you say, brighter but I can get a fairly
dark jazz tone with it but the bass is a window rattler. I notice with the Ibanez
the bass is more restrained and somewhat more controllable and a bit flatter in
tone but the high end is a bit wimpy. I may try a different neck pickup in the
Ibanez just for the sake of comparison. (If you have any suggestions to that end it
would be greatly appreciated).
It's not an urgent issue as I don't gig at this point, but I do like the archtop
thing and I'd like it to be a versatile as possible. Like you, in some respect, I'm
an equipment hog. I've acquired 7 guitars, 3 amps and various other appurtenances
in less than two years and now I'm just having fun exploring. Unlike you, though, I
find it hard to part with any of it, though at some point I'm going to have to thin
the heard so I can scrape together the cash to buy that dream guitar -- whatever
that might be.
I do, however, appreciate your input and I thank you. I'll keep you posted as to my
progress, if I indeed make any. I'll just have to do a bit of experimenting. Thanks
again.
joe nez
F.
Just wondering if any of you have compared the Fender Deluxe 90 to the
Princeton Chorus. I just wandered by the local Fender dealer today just to
try both out (the P.C. was your standard P.C., not the DSP version).
Both of them seem to me to have about the same basic, useful clean
tone--somewhat trebly, though easily corrected. The Deluxe 90, however,
struck me as having much more bass and certainly a lot more volume
(headroom, if I'm using that term correctly?) than the Princeton Chorus--not
surprisingly, as the first is supposed to be 90 watts on a single speaker,
and if I'm not mistaken, the PC is 25 watts per each of 2 speakers. I was
short on time, so I didn't play around with it as long as I'd have liked,
and I'm always overly self-conscious in shops. :) I certainly didn't mess
with the distortion--I don't need a new amp for that. Nor did I mess with
or care about the on-amp chorus, as I have gear to take care of that.
To be clear, I'm still looking to solve my lack of an inexpensive solid
state amp that will cut through rehearsals with drums, bass, piano, and
three saxes, maybe even take it on a gig in a couple weeks. And something
that is a little more restrained on the attack than a moderately "gainy"
tube amp, which I already have. I did find a Yamaha G100 112 off ebay, but
UPS trashed that into five zillion pieces before it ever got to me. :-( I
also tried out a used Polytone Minibrute III that our bass player has and
might want to sell, but while it was cool, it also required an overly loud
volume to make the tone worthwhile (i.e., not really useful to practice with
in a multi-inhabitant abode. :)
Then again, maybe I should just suck up the extra 100 or so clams, buy the
vaunted Clarus and chain it up (*has* anyone chained it up to a tube combo
as an extension "cab," btw??). :) But really, I'd like to save the pennies
where possible, as I have to move soon and find some other household junk.
Thoughts/observations welcome, particularly on the above mentioned Fenders.
Frank
p.s. Already been to Harmony Central. The Deluxe 90 reviews there exceed
the usual HC volume of metalhead teenagers frothing about their first guitar
and amp. :-7
"OASYSCO" <oas...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010413223116...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
Pete Kerezman
Bought mine new in summer '97. My only real guitar amp. Here's
what i noticed in nearly four years pretty constant light use, mostly
at home but i've also played out with it.
Positives:
* Good clean sound
* Classic fendery-sounding reverb
* Excellent stereo chorus
* Useable distortion (drive channel) *if* used *sparingly*!
* Mono AND Stereo effects loops
(looks like the dsp version lacks these)
* Stereo effects loop doubles as line out to pa/mixer
* Headphone jack (i use it for speaker-muting since the
whole setup goes through a mixer headphone out)
* Portable, a one-trip load, even for an old fart
Negatives:
* Not loud, won't keep up with a horn section
* Speakers "fart out" at high volume and bass levels
(need to roll off bass on amp to play loud)
* Mid boost acts like high/low cut (volume seems to decrease
as mids are emphasized)
* Foot switch controls only channel select and chorus on/off
like to see the reverb on/off on there too
* Foot switch "pops"
Of all the negatives, the not loud enough for horns is the only one
really bugs me. Nice little amp.
Texas Pete
OASYSCO
I pretty much agree with your assessment, though I have not owned mine as long
as you have and I have never played out (with this amp or with jazz - yet).
As you say, at 25 watts per side this amp would choke on a bandstand. That's
OK, as I have a triple speaker, 125 watt Polytone and a Fender Super 60 tubie
for really loud playing should I ever need it.
At lower playing levels, the PC is really nice.
The chorus is excellent. I like it better than the Ultimate Chorus.
The reverb is OK, but not great. Certainly it is good enough to use with the
amp, but it just doesn't make my toes curl. That said, I don't plan to
front-end it with a 'verb box as the on-board 'verb sounds about as good as the
digital stuff I've heard.
The distortion sounds excellent (for blues and rock) when used with a Strat (I
have a Korean-made Squire Strat - close enough for now). With humbuckers, it
doesn't sound quite as good.
Of course, there is some background noise with the gain knob turned up on the
OD channel. Other than that, this amp is super quiet! I really like that
aspect.
I've not made use fully of the effects loop and headphone jack, but they are
nice to have.
What I REALLY like is the portability. At 38 lbs soaking wet, this amp comes in
way under any of my other amps (except for my ultra-lightweight Hohner
Liber-amp-ce). So, until we move, my heavier amps stay stowed away and the PC
gets played.
The PC gives off good jazz tone with my archtops, is relatively light, has good
onboard effects, and is quiet. That's a good combination of qualities.
Mine is a late 80's to early 90's red knob one in 9 out of 10 cosmetic
condition and 10 of 10 electronics condition. I just had it professionaly
checked out electronically as I do with all my amps - especially the ones I
want to keep - and it came back perfect. That says something to me about the
quality of these amps, at least from the time period I am talking about.
Still, I would have a problem paying close to $500 for a new one when they can
be had used for $250.
I agree - great little amp!
Greg
PJBMHB
couple of summers ago and he used a princeton. he was constantly getting
flatulent sounds. it was really annoying. good playing, bad sound. maybe if the
amp had different speakers it would sound better?
=-) PJ
Pete Kerezman
I think the princeton chorus just doesn't have the moxie, and i
seriously doubt that different speakers could improve it much, if at
all. You sure that guy wasn't using a little tube princeton? A
speaker might help with that one.
You can make the pc play loud, but you gotta roll off lotta bass and
then it just doesn't sound that great. Bass boost is a real
power-suck with any amp. When you've only got 25 watts to suck from,
well...
Texas Pete
Mark W. Smart
the power. The distortion that happens when you turn the clean channel up
above 5 or so is designed into the amp circuitry, and you can't get rid of
it with new speakers (I tried this one time).
I think they were intending to simulate a tube amp's
overload, which they did a pretty good job of, but this is not desirable for
playing jazz block chord solos! I traded my Priceton Chorus in for an
Ultimate Chorus, which sounds pretty much the same. This amp has more power
but has the same clipping-above-5 problem. Even this was not enough clean
power for me (I play a lot of gigs with loud musicians in bars with no PA).
So I got an Evans SE200. This amp had clean power to burn, but I never liked
the sound of it as much as the solid state Fenders (I know lot of people
will disagree with that!).
Anyway, one day I tried out a Fender Stage 160. It has no chorus, but it has
that Fender clean sound and will not clip on the clean channel at all, even
if you turn it up REALLY loud. I finally had found an amp I was happy with,
so this is the one I currently use. This amp is definitely worth checking
out!
PJBMHB
princeton chorus.
=-) PJ
OASYSCO
assume jamming with friends, it seems to be just fine. Like you can't make a
Strat into an archtop, likewise for amps; there are amps for live gigging with
lots of power and then there are amps that are meant for lower volume use. The
PC falls into the latter category.
Greg