Maple or spruce top Archtops?
ddinc
(around $2000 or so)
What will a maple/spruce top do to tone in a Jazz guitar.
Is there a real advantage in solid vs. laminated tops?
What about Rosewood/ebony fingerboards on Jazz guitars.
On my solid electrics, the ebony seemed to greater
sustain. (at least on the Les Pauls I have played)
Any discussion would be helpful on the advantages/
disadvantages of the different construction methods.
David Moss
"ddinc" wrote...
If I can extend this discussion before it even starts -
what about the acoustic tone/volume issue? It's
been said here many times that laminated top
archtops, especially in the Epi Regent price class,
are strictly electric guitars. I've tried out a few
different models in the stores, and though some
sounded thin, others were quite OK and had more
volume than I was expecting (admittedly my point of
reference is a nylon-string classical). I really liked the
sound of an ES-165 unamplified - loads of warmth and
character acoustically, in spite of the laminated top.
In a recent review of a $6000 hand-built archtop I read
this - "The acoustic tone of this instrument is overwhelming...
it's really fun to just sit down with this guitar and play,
independent of the nearly superfluous amplification".
Is that something you're only going to find with a carved top?
How do you get that kind of performance without paying
$6000?
Mark Kleinhaut
acoustically resonant than laminate because a single piece of wood
(thickness wise) will vibrate more freely than multi-layers. But there
are other variables such as the thickness of the top and how it is
braced and how it is voiced by the luthier. I'm not sure if laminate
tops even get voiced, does anyone know?? Also, floating pickups don't
interfere with the top's vibrations like cut-in pickups (and knobs)
will. While many find the acoustic attributes desirable (as do I), the
downside of this resonance is that the instrument is far more prone to
feedback problems when amplified. I got a chance to hang with Jack
Wilkins a couple of weeks ago and to do some duo playing (Very humbling
as always, I assure you). My Bourgeois is about 2/3rds the weight of
Jack's Benedetto (and about 1/6th the cost)and is a good bit louder
acoustically. It would never keep up amplified, however, due to
feedback. Jack really liked the Bourgeois and noted that it really
articulated like an acoustic guitar, more so than an electric, but what
he kept coming back to was just how light the thing is.
Check out www.danabourgeois.com. The acoustic archtop A-250 can be had
for less than 3K. There are also many fine lesser known builders, some
of whom have been recommended elswhere this NG, who can build a world
class instrument for way less than 6K.
As far as fingerboards, that is a matter of some taste. The ebony
certainly feels harder and seems to sustain longer, but the rosewood
sometimes sounds warmer or woodier. I think there are so many
variables, but I could get used to either.
--
Info and soundclips available at
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/amphora.html
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Before you buy.
OASYSCO
take what I say with a grain of salt.
>I am looking at buying a new archtop guitar.
>(around $2000 or so)
>
>What will a maple/spruce top do to tone in a Jazz guitar.
All maple construction tends to be brighter sounding than having, say, a spruce
top.
>Is there a real advantage in solid vs. laminated tops?
The big advanages to having a laminated top are:
(1) less feedback when amplified since the top is thicker and resonates less.
(2) more resistance to severe weather/humidity changes that plague solid wood
guitars
(3) typically cheaper
The downside of laminates follow:
(1) poorer pure acoustic tone
(2) guitar tends to be *much* heavier in weight
>What about Rosewood/ebony fingerboards on Jazz guitars.
Ebony is supposed to give a brighter attack - which I can hear on my Taylor
flattop, while rosewood offers a mellower tone which I can hear on one archtop
of mine while the other - which is all maple construction - is brighter. Go
figure..
Let's face it; higher end guitars use ebony. I like the feel and look of ebony
mroe than rosewood myself.
>On my solid electrics, the ebony seemed to greater
>sustain. (at least on the Les Pauls I have played)
>
>Any discussion would be helpful on the advantages/
>disadvantages of the different construction methods.
I can't address X-brace versus whatever. I'll leave that to the pros.
Greg
Kevin Van Sant
<david...@ifia.fzk.de> wrote in message
<864i48$pk2$1...@hiknews1.fzk.de> :
>
>"ddinc" wrote...
>> I am looking at buying a new archtop guitar.
>> (around $2000 or so)
>>
>> What will a maple/spruce top do to tone in a Jazz guitar.
>> Is there a real advantage in solid vs. laminated tops?
>> What about Rosewood/ebony fingerboards on Jazz guitars.
>> On my solid electrics, the ebony seemed to greater
>> sustain. (at least on the Les Pauls I have played)
>>
>> Any discussion would be helpful on the advantages/
>> disadvantages of the different construction methods.
>
>If I can extend this discussion before it even starts -
>what about the acoustic tone/volume issue? It's
>been said here many times that laminated top
>archtops, especially in the Epi Regent price class,
>are strictly electric guitars. I've tried out a few
>different models in the stores, and though some
>sounded thin, others were quite OK and had more
>volume than I was expecting (admittedly my point of
>reference is a nylon-string classical). I really liked the
>sound of an ES-165 unamplified - loads of warmth and
>character acoustically, in spite of the laminated top.
I think some of the laminate tops sound great acoustically. It is a
different sound from a spruce, but I dig it anyway. An old '56 es125
that was once on loan to me was especially loud too, as I recall.
Much louder than my 175. Laminate guitars seem to get tremendous
punchy presence as they age. I suppose it has to do with hardening
glues.
>In a recent review of a $6000 hand-built archtop I read
>this - "The acoustic tone of this instrument is overwhelming...
>it's really fun to just sit down with this guitar and play,
>independent of the nearly superfluous amplification".
>Is that something you're only going to find with a carved top?
>How do you get that kind of performance without paying
>$6000?
I felt that way when I got that e125 loaner, then again when I bought
a $900 es175, and of course I really felt that way when I got my L5.
I don't know if its really a case of getting "that kind of
performance", is more a matter of perception and expectations. In my
view you don't need to spend tons of money to be enthusiastic about an
instrument. I resisted ever playing a guitar nicer than the ones I
owned for fear that I wouldn't be able to feel good about my own
instruments afterwords. Once I finally was in the market for a high
end archtop I found that as nice as some guitars may be, I still
really like my 175. That being said, my L5 does instill in me an
appreciation of the sound of the guitar that is on a different level.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
Jazz Guitar
www.mindspring.com/~jazure/music.html - to buy my CDs and listen to J'Azure
www.onestopjazz.com - for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
www.mindspring.com/~kvansant - for jazz guitar samples and info
Timothy Evans
>
> flattop, while rosewood offers a mellower tone which I can hear on one archtop
> of mine while the other - which is all maple construction - is brighter. Go
> figure..
>
> Let's face it; higher end guitars use ebony. I like the feel and look of ebony
> mroe than rosewood myself.
>
>
Ebony, being a harder wood, will also last longer before showing serious wear in
frequently played positions.
Tim
Greg Clayton
> I guess the carved vs laminated top issue comes down to what you might be
looking for. In general the "classic" Tal, Raney ,Pass, sound was from
laminated tops. Both Tal and Joe said they preferred them for electric
playing. A floating pick up[at least the ones I've tried] on a nice carved
top tend to bring you half way to electric and half way from acoustic not
really providing the best attributes of either. The exception might be
on high end carved tops like the Super 400 and L5 which have routed pickups
and all the attendant controls which dampen the top somewhat but still give
decent tone and a great electric tone. However 20 years ago when I bought my
60's super 400 I played with a student I had sold my 50's 295 with p 90's to
and he had a bit "fatter'" electric sound.
I guess one can't really have it both ways.
Just some observations
BTW I'm still looking for a guitar and tried a 37 epi deluxe [too
hacked up] and a 40's Emperor blonde and both have awesome acoustic sound
but I'm still looking Hope to try a Heritage and a L7C soon anyone got
an L5 for sale?
Greg
Yosemite Spam
Timothy Evans wrote in message <38862BD3...@bellsouth.net>...
does anybody on this group fiddle around with maple fingerboards
(typically only on electrics, i'm guessing) or is that a big no-no in jazz?
:)
cheers,
frank