After last gig, I really need a more versatile guitar
Chip L
I gig with either a Tele (R&B/dance/party) or a L-5 knockoff
(jazz/dixieland). I'm finding that most of my gigs are a mixture of genre -
R&B/dance with a mix of classic jazz, or straight ahead w/ Pop jazz, or
dixie land + jazz/swing. When I'm playing either, I'm often wishing I was
playing something else.
After last night's gig, (Mardi Gras/Dixie Land/classic jazz) I was totally
bummed about how I played, my performance, and the performance of my
equipment. The big box Washburn J-6 fed back terribly and shook everything
in the drum set. This was a VERY tight set up and I could not separate
myself f/ my amp It was right next to me, almost under the drum kit - (In
my best Steve Martin voice, "I blame myself"). While I love the "practice"
tone of the J-6, I just don't think its a practical gig axe.
Is there a versatile guitar that can do straight jazz, pop, R&B and that
performs well in a gig situation?
Chip L
Gibson335v
Your problem is exactly why many guitarists have moved to the 335 style guitars
of which there are many - Semi-hollow guitars that are comfortable in any
musical setting.
Every major manufacturer has developed such an instrument - Gibson, Ibanez,
Heritage, Guild, etc
Sometimes these instruments try to split the difference between a Les Paul and
a 335.
A partial list:
Gibson Es 335, 336, 346
Gibson 135
Gibson ES 137
Heritage 535 (I think that's the right number)
Epi Sheraton
Guild Starfire
Guild Bluesbird
Ibanez - Scofield model
Most of these share a mahogany center block that resists feedback and helps
sustain, while the hollowbody adds a touch of warmth.
Think John Scofield, Larry Carlton, Steve Kahn
Others have done well with the ES 175 clones like Pat Methey but I think these
have a tendency to feedback too but not as bad as an archtop with a floater.
David C. Stephens
typical open backed combo amp. I used to take a Tele to loud gigs because of
feedback from my Heritage Golden Eagle. After I switched to Raezer's Edge I
sold the Tele. "Twice as loud" isn't an idle guess, but something that I've
measured with a sound pressure level meter.
Dave
"Chip L" <longcDE...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:b5f1po$27jsvk$1...@ID-77822.news.dfncis.de...
Pat
Pt
Rick Ross
issue..a 335 will rectify feedback issues but...for a nice R & B feel I have
found a guitar needs a much lighter string than for jazz..for the few gigs I
get like this I still end up bring a tele/strat with 11's for R & B and my
jazz machine with 13's...a hassle..but it works out somehow..
"Gibson335v" <gibso...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030321082025...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Jens Weisse
"Chip L" <longcDE...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:b5f1po$27jsvk$1...@ID-77822.news.dfncis.de...
> performs well in a gig situation?
Try the Yamaha AES 1500. The wiring is the interesting feature on this
thing: You get singel coil sounds as well as the thicker humbucker jazz
tone.
Jens
Joey Goldstein
that has a smaller/thinner body like an Epi Joe Pass (or those thinner
ones whose model names escape me right now) or even a center block like
a 335/137 style.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
<joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
Joey Goldstein
Joey Goldstein wrote:
>
> If you need an archtop sound but with less feedback then get an archtop
> that has a smaller/thinner body like an Epi Joe Pass (or those thinner
> ones whose model names escape me right now) or even a center block like
> a 335/137 style.
Also, like dDavid is suggesting, you'll get less feedback from an
archtop by using a closed backed cabinet, and the RE cabs sound great.
Nick Carver
to the 335 style guitars, since it has solid woods, but still has a
center block, ebony board.
Check it out.
Nick
Rick Del Savio
those type gigs. And they're a lot more guitar than a 335, plus they're
less expensive. And NO f-holes. The Varitone switch 'thins' out the
sound which is cool for funk rthymn parts and twangier type sounds. Good
luck whatever you choose. Cheers, Rick :D
--
Jazz Guitarist/Educator
Check out lessons and original music @
http://www.rickdelsavio.com
Chip L
I think I'd miss the Fender twang and chink; so something that would thin
out the humbucker would be great. Or a coil tap for a bucker/single coil.
Thx!
Chip
Rick Del Savio <rain...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3E7B3BF1...@optonline.net...
Michael Ellenberger
ES335 or a Stratocaster, won't feedback, will do R&B/dance/party, will
do classic jazz but not the vibe of the L-5. If you are playing loud
enough that feedback is a problem, having the rich sound you get from a
hollow body will be lost anyway so you have to compromise.
Mike
--
Mike Ellenberger
Listen to some soundclips at
http://home.att.net/~grumpmeister/MikesJazzPage.html
Jay Vyas
> I recently wrote a review of my Heritage Standard Ultra. I prefer it
> to the 335 style guitars, since it has solid woods, but still has a
> center block, ebony board.
>
Do you think the solid wood makes a noticeable difference on a guitar
with a center block, humbuckers routed into the the top, and
(presumably) a fairly thick top? Just curious.
I certainly can understand using carved, relatively thin thickness,
solid woods on an acoustic guitar, but less so on a semi-hollow
electric guitar. Just wondering if it sounds better somehow.
Addressing the topic, I agree that semi-hollows are super versatile.
My #1 gigging axe for all occasions - jazz, blues, rock - is a
semi-hollow. I can even do pretty good sounding chicken picking
country licks on it (the guitar sounds good, not my chicken picking).
I usually have it strung with .011s, and I go back and forth between
flats and rounds, with rounds on it probably 60% of the time.
-- Jay
LarryV
had mine for several years now, and I'm really happy with it. Slides
effortlessly into any genre of music, and absolutely does not feed
back unless you want it to. These guitars are Gibson's best kept
secret.
"Chip L" <longcDE...@infoave.net> wrote in message news:<b5f1po$27jsvk$1...@ID-77822.news.dfncis.de>...
Chip L
feel like I'm playing a solid body (ie Les Paul) and the humbucker looses
the Fender vibe I like for R&B. Don't get me wrong - I'm not knockin 335's.
In fact, they are probably the most versatile guitars out there. I need to
be more open on my options.
I think my dream guitar may be:
- Thin hollowbody 2-1/2 - 2 3/4
- Small Humbucker or Bucker w/ Coil Tap/Single Coil (for the Fender vibe)
- Lotsa tonal variation - maybe Varitone
- Limited feedback - something other than a solid woold block - maybe a
sound post or no F holes
The closest I've owned was a Guild Manhattan X-170. Great inexpensive
guitar.
Rick - 11's on a Strat is THICK to me. I thought you were going to say 9's.
I like the sloppy fell of 9's/10's on a Fender for R&B.
Rick Ross <rick...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:heFea.968$TW2.4...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Rbsoul
sounds you are looking for. It can get the great twang (pups can be split) as
well as a deep jazz tone. It is a very versatile guitar...and really light
weight for those long gigs.
Ken Willinger
Hear my clips at:
http://www.soundclick.com/kenwillinger
Rick Ross
"Chip L" <longcDE...@infoave.net> wrote in >
>
> Rick - 11's on a Strat is THICK to me. I thought you were going to say
9's.
> I like the sloppy fell of 9's/10's on a Fender for R&B.
>
thus you've placed yourself into the two guitar situation anyway because I
couldn't imagine playing jazz with 9's...on any giuitar..
Rick Del Savio
played Gibsons for decades. I was doing lots of casuals/club
dates/wedddings and the Strats' neck p/u didn't produce a decent 'Jazz'
tone. So, I put a Jeff Beck Jr.
in there. It helped. Then I put the same in the bridge. Then, it stopped
sounding
like a Strat or a Gibson or anything. Then, I sold it. LOL! Back to
Gibson I went. If one is old enough to recall the 'every car', an add
campaign for I believe a banks car loan program circa 1970? They put
together a real auto using quarter panels, grilles, etc..from a bunch of
popular models. It looked like do-do. Kinda' like the "guitar" that's
pictured on the folio for the National Summer Guitar Workshop. Rick
Nielsen from 'Cheap Trick' probably owns something similar. Cheers dude.
Chip L
knockoff - and I now see that they are really on the extremes of the scale
in terms of tone and suitability. No wonder I'm not please when I try to
play tunes 'in between'.
I'm currently coveting something like this..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2516099930&category=621
While it looks like your average 175 knockoff, its really between a 175 and
a 335. I've owned one and it was SWEET. Its thin (2 1/2") and hollow but has
a 'sound post' to reduce feedback. It works!. The bridge and 'tween'
positions are very usable. I remember when I had it I use to think "I could
gig R&B with this". (I gig R&B now - didn't then). We'll see
Chip
Rick Del Savio <rain...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3E7B77C0...@optonline.net...
Pat
Py
David C. Stephens
Dave
"Chip L" <longcDE...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:b5fv1f$2823h6$1...@ID-77822.news.dfncis.de...
Sideways Jaye
knowing the kind of music you like, I'd think a semi-hollow with
p-90's would be the ticket. As you know, early Grant Green, Kenny
Burrell and Wes Montgomery were all p-90's, and while a P90 axe won't
exactly copy Jimmy Nolen, it will have an "r&b" approved sound. Just
make sure you don't get super hot p90's like they put in those early
'90's Hamer Specials, too "blatty" sounding.
Good luck,
j
Greg D
news:a6bf1bf8.03032...@posting.google.com:
I agree here. I own the ES-137P (P90 version) - very versatile, no FB,
semi-hollow, 16" body. Can get bright or dark and smoky. Won't quack like a
Strat though.
Greg
Jurupari
>performs well in a gig situation?
>
Yeah, the Les Paul. If your gigs were like mine, you can also take out several
thugs in the parking lot with a nice level swing, too...now that's what I call
performing well in a gig situation!
Stops bullets up to .38 caliber, unless teflon jacketed. :o)
Clif
Jonathan Giblin
> Is there a versatile guitar that can do straight jazz, pop, R&B and that
> performs well in a gig situation?
I don't think anybody has mentioned the PRS Hollowbody or Archtop
guitars. These are pretty versataile instruments that never feed back.
Still, no guitar does it all. Setup has a lot to do with how the
instrument performs, and if you don't want to play blues with 13s, you
may want to consider bringing two guitars to the gig. I've never
played a guitar that comes close to capturing the sound of both a
full-size archtop and a Strat anyway(maybe there's something like that
out there somewhere; I've just never seen it). If you really need that
kind of versatility, you're almost compelled to carry two instruments
to the gig.
Good luck in your quest though, and give the PRSs a try. And if you
should find the Holy Grail, you will let us know, won't you?
Chip L
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2516099930&category=621
$918 is a good price. I sold my last one for $1,100. The seller missed his
market by not mentioning 'jazz' or 'archtop' or hollow body' in his ad.
You had to know exactly what you were looking for to find it.
Chip L
"David C. Stephens" <dcs...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:tjLea.653$Mi6.38...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
thom_j.
"Chip L" <longcDE...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:b5fv1f$2823h6$1...@ID-77822.news.dfncis.de...
> knockoff - and I now see that they are really on the extremes of the scale
> in terms of tone and suitability. No wonder I'm not please when I try to
> play tunes 'in between'.
>
> I'm currently coveting something like this..
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2516099930&category=621
Chip L.. I sold one of these (a lefty) and as I look back I think it
was one of my dumber moves..It was just the neck, for me, was
too thick.. I just seem to lean toward an Epiphone Sheraton size
& style neck now & I can't shake it. If I could have only spliced
one on the X170.. Yummy :8^)... cheers thom_j.
dunlop212
> I don't think anybody has mentioned the PRS Hollowbody or Archtop
> guitars. These are pretty versataile instruments that never feed back.
>
Or the Gibson ES-446; can be had for mid to high teens used if you can
find one. Carved spruce top, but the body is too small (about L5S
sized) to create significant feedback issues.
I find 335s uncomfortable to play, especially sitting down.
Chip L
problems. had neck probs with my other one.
chip
"thom_j." <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:scOcneEQjJD...@comcast.com...
thom_j.
I wish you all the luck with your New Git! If my neck was just
a tad thinner it would still be here! I never had any mechanical
problems or flaws with my X-170 neck. It was just something
I have developed as a feel within me. Kinda' stupid really, but
my stupidity speaks for itself.. :8^).... cheers thom_j.
"Chip L" <longc...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:b5ighp$k7g$1...@news3.infoave.net...
icarusi
> Is there a versatile guitar that can do straight jazz, pop, R&B and
that
> performs well in a gig situation?
How about a Gretsch 'Brian Setzer' model (with dice knobs), and a
Bigsby? Not cheap but can do both styles and looks the part too!
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Gerry Scott-Moore
<longcDE...@infoave.net> wrote:
> Is there a versatile guitar that can do straight jazz, pop, R&B and that
> performs well in a gig situation?
It depends on how much you appreciate a solid-body guitar in a jazz
situation. I do. If you like it, your tele should work fine for
everything, with appropriate gizmos/amp to taste.
If you need more of the faux "acoustic" sound of a archtop (not the
actual accoustic properties, but its amplified presentation), you might
consider a solid-body with a built-in piezo pickup. Sounds like a
amplified accoustic to me. Brian Moore makes a few, I'm using the i8.
It has a piezo for the most advantagious use of GK2a synth, but in the
process provides it's own qualities which might be up your alley.
--
///--- Nazodesu no more.
Jay Vyas
I used to have one of these, and I must agree - it was super
versatile, and had a slightly unique (in a good way) sound, compared
to all the regular single coil guitars and humbuckers guitars out
there. The tone had a great deal of clarity without being sterile.
Ultimately, though, the neck was too thin (front to back) for me - it
felt kind of like an 80's shred machine to me - so I sold it.
I had the same issue with a recent Ibanez GB-10; the older ones seemed
to have slightly chunkier necks. That was another super versatile
guitar.
-- Jay
MBR
> performs well in a gig situation?
>
Those J6's are tough to handle except in quiet, more restrained
playing situations. Once there's a drummer involved, I found that the
J6 was almost impossible to deal with. You could try the Gibson
Howard Roberts Fusion...it's a smaller, semi-hollowbody with a single
cutaway. Decent axe. The Epi Joe Pass is okay; you can get a credible
"jazz" tone from it but quality varies widely. The Ibanez George
Benson is a decent guitar too. I use a 335 through a Roland Cube 60
for small combo gigs with drums. The 335 plays like a dream and the
closed-back Roland has a decent jazz tone. I played a blues gig and a
jazz gig in the same week with this setup and it worked beautifully.
Jose Paulo Pires
I also own a J6 (with a Gibson '57 on the neck), and I love its
sound, but every time we had some gig where we would
play a little loud (our drummer came from a rock&roll background
and still tends to play hard sometimes), the J6 would feedback
a lot.
So, I bought an Ibanez AS120, a 335 style' Ibanez.
Very nice and versatile guitar !
It gives me a very beautiful Jazz tone, and with the bridge
PU it sounds (almost) like a Les Paul.
Great tone and end of the feedback problems.
Even so, sometimes when we are going play in small places, I still
play my J6.
JP
Chip L wrote:
> I gig with either a Tele (R&B/dance/party) or a L-5 knockoff
> (jazz/dixieland). I'm finding that most of my gigs are a mixture of genre -
> R&B/dance with a mix of classic jazz, or straight ahead w/ Pop jazz, or
> dixie land + jazz/swing. When I'm playing either, I'm often wishing I was
> playing something else.
>
> After last night's gig, (Mardi Gras/Dixie Land/classic jazz) I was totally
> bummed about how I played, my performance, and the performance of my
> equipment. The big box Washburn J-6 fed back terribly and shook everything
> in the drum set. This was a VERY tight set up and I could not separate
> myself f/ my amp It was right next to me, almost under the drum kit - (In
> my best Steve Martin voice, "I blame myself"). While I love the "practice"
> tone of the J-6, I just don't think its a practical gig axe.
>
> Is there a versatile guitar that can do straight jazz, pop, R&B and that
> performs well in a gig situation?
>
> Chip L