Please help: pickguard and tailpiece question.
Alex
Excel, as well as possibly an ebony replacement tailpiece.
I've googled around, but can't really find anyone who custom makes
these. As far as the tailpiece, I know StewMac and others carry a
Benedetto style one, but I am a little concerned about using a
tailpiece with only the little loop/rope to hold it in place, rather
than the 3-screw kind.
Any help much appreciated. Sorry if I don't make sense, I recently
woke up.
Alex Pechenik
Mark Cleary
Your guitar will sound better with the strings anchored to metal. This goes
against some guitar makers but I also know plenty who think the the same
thing. I would leave the tailpiece you have with the guitar on it. I have
one of the Excels and mine is fine they work great that is why D'angelico
sound good and Super 400's
--
Mark Cleary makes music on the finest Jazz guitars.
http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
"Alex" <apec...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188384594.0...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Alex
> It is my opinion to never use a wood/ebony tailpiece on an archtop guitar.
> Your guitar will sound better with the strings anchored to metal. This goes
> against some guitar makers but I also know plenty who think the the same
> thing. I would leave the tailpiece you have with the guitar on it. I have
> one of the Excels and mine is fine they work great that is why D'angelico
> sound good and Super 400's
>
> --
> Mark Cleary makes music on the finest Jazz guitars.http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
>
>
> news:1188384594.0...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Do any of you know where I can get an ebony pickguard for my D'A
> > Excel, as well as possibly an ebony replacement tailpiece.
>
> > I've googled around, but can't really find anyone who custom makes
> > these. As far as the tailpiece, I know StewMac and others carry a
> > Benedetto style one, but I am a little concerned about using a
> > tailpiece with only the little loop/rope to hold it in place, rather
> > than the 3-screw kind.
>
> > Any help much appreciated. Sorry if I don't make sense, I recently
> > woke up.
>
> > Alex Pechenik
Marc,
you are a knowledgeable guy, and I am inclined to take your advice.
I just wish that tailpiece wasn't so ugly. But I will take sound
over looks any day.
As long as I have your attention, what is your opinion of ebony vs.
TOM bridge on the Excel 1SH? :-) Thank you.
Mark Cleary
with in opinion make the sound nasally or metallic. The ebony bridge and
saddle make the sound warmer and this is what is different about the
tailpiece situation. The tailpiece acts as an anchor for sound and the
bridge acts to transmit sound. I don't TOM and you can get the Ebony bridge
to be as in tune but it takes a bit of work at times.
--
Mark Cleary makes music on the finest Jazz guitars.
http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
"Alex" <apec...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188390553.8...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
RickH®
Do you have a Rockler (woodworkers supply chain store) nearby? They
sell all kinds of hardwood board including ebony in std 1by
dimensional, then you would just have someone re-saw/plane a 1x6 to
3/16 inch thick or so. The Rockler by me here often has someone in
the shop who can do this for you or some business cards of local wood
workers. Then the guy only has to jigsaw, sand, roundover, sand
again, and drill the piece from a tracing of the old guard.
Willie K. Yee, MD
not be cheap.
Tim McNamara
Alex <apec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do any of you know where I can get an ebony pickguard for my D'A
> Excel, as well as possibly an ebony replacement tailpiece.
>
> I've googled around, but can't really find anyone who custom makes
> these. As far as the tailpiece, I know StewMac and others carry a
> Benedetto style one, but I am a little concerned about using a
> tailpiece with only the little loop/rope to hold it in place, rather
> than the 3-screw kind.
My guitar's tailpiece is held on exactly like that and hasn't budged in
a couple of years; I use .012-.052 strings. That design has been in use
for centuries on violins, violas, cellos and basses. The bugs are
pretty well worked out. It has been used for six and seven string
guitars for decades, too.
Some people feel that this type of tailpiece sounds different than a
metal tailpiece that is screwed on, but I have not been able to A/B test
it on my guitar. My two archtops have one of each type, but the
instruments are otherwise so different (one is a 17" "Cloneadetto" and
the other is an Ibanez GB-10) that comparison really isn't reliable.
Hmmm. I don't think there are any screwed-on ebony tailpieces. Wood
doesn't really tolerate that kind of loading very well. Maybe a metal
base with an ebony decorative cover?
Another Cleveland Guy
> In article <1188384594.018748.241...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Alex <apeche...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do any of you know where I can get an ebony pickguard for my D'A
> > Excel, as well as possibly an ebony replacement tailpiece.
>
> a couple of years; I use .012-.052 strings. That design has been in use
> for centuries on violins, violas, cellos and basses. The bugs are
> pretty well worked out. It has been used for six and seven string
> guitars for decades, too.
I replaced the metal tailpiece on my archtop with one of these a
couple years ago. Mine has the "little loop/rope" thingy holding it in
place, and I've had no problems whatsoever with it.
> Some people feel that this type of tailpiece sounds different than a
> metal tailpiece that is screwed on, but I have not been able to A/B test
> it on my guitar.
There's a clear difference in tone. The ebony tailpiece is darker and
warmer and a little murkier somehow. The metal tailpiece produced a
brighter and maybe a little better defined sound. Which one is better
is a matter of opinion. I wasn't sure I liked the ebony tailpiece at
first, but it's grown on me. I like it a lot now, although a guitar
with a metal tailpiece would probably cut through a rhythm section a
little better.
Max Leggett
<tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>Hmmm. I don't think there are any screwed-on ebony tailpieces. Wood
>doesn't really tolerate that kind of loading very well. Maybe a metal
>base with an ebony decorative cover?
That's on my Eastman 803. My Sadowsky has an ebony tail with a metal
piece connecting it to the endpiece.
Stan Fong
>
> There's a clear difference in tone. The ebony tailpiece is darker and
> warmer and a little murkier somehow. The metal tailpiece produced a
> brighter and maybe a little better defined sound. Which one is better
> is a matter of opinion. I wasn't sure I liked the ebony tailpiece at
> first, but it's grown on me. I like it a lot now, although a guitar
> with a metal tailpiece would probably cut through a rhythm section a
> little better.
I agree the ebony tail piece are warmer and murkier sounding. The
metal tailpiece has more overtones. Some people like the overtones,
some don't. They're different sounding for sure. If a tailpiece is all
ebony there should be a metal piece attached to the strings anyway for
proper grounding. Otherwise you'll get noise when you lifted your
fingers off the strings.
Stan
steinbergerstyler
mikeo
comes to wood vs metal TPs. Depends what you want. I've owned all
the usual guitars (Gibson, Guild, Eastman, etc) with cast metal
tailpieces and with some of them I was able to hear an objectionable
metallic ringing noise. I could not stand that and when i replaced
the metal with ebony, the problem disappeared.
Another thing, those metal TPs are really heavy, so your guitar gets
noticeably lighter in the replacement.
Also, the sacconi loop is very strong and stays put just fine. Now
they make them out of braided steel cable (instead of nylon), so there
is very little stretch-in time required. it is certainly worth a
try.
i've bought a couple of ebony TPs on eBay from an inlay craftsman in
China. I swear it was like $12 plus shipping(probably another $15 or
so) - not bad!
I use a string ground with copper grounding tape under the ball
anchors and a wire running the length of the TP down to the endpin
jack. works great. feel free to email me offline if you want to see
how this looks.
good luck.
da...@redstoneaudio.com
Benedetto is now selling replacement ebony tailpieces for the metal
tailpieces on the California Bravos. $175. It mounts with 3 screws.
On the subject of TOM bridges, this is a very personal and subjective
thing. On some guitars, I prefer the ebony bridge. However, on the D'A
EX-1SH, I replaced the stock ebony one with a Gotoh TOM and it made a
very positive improvement to my ears. Ebony is dark and mellow and the
TOM is brighter.
dave
Max Leggett
wrote:
>i've bought a couple of ebony TPs on eBay from an inlay craftsman in
>China. I swear it was like $12 plus shipping(probably another $15 or
>so) - not bad!
>
Did you have to do any mods to it to fir the pups etc? I got one of
those [likely on yr suggestion] buyt it's sitting in a drawer until I
figure out how to chop a bit out to fir the pup.
RickH®
FWIW my AF105 has an ebony tail and it has a darker meatier tone than
my GB12 which has a heavy cast metal tail, for same body size, but
that probably means nothing. I think in general the wooden tail
introduces more complexity to the tone because it, itself, vibrates
more than a cast metal tail. This added vibration travels backwards
up the string into the bridge and is amplified by the top. Almost
like it adds harmonics to the string simply because it is less inert
than a metal block. If these added harmonics are desireable, cancel,
reinforce, etc. is another question. Archtops take their design
largely from violins and violins certainly dont have metal tails, so
who knows, all you can do is try it.
Martacus
> In article <1188384594.018748.241...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
I had a screwed on ebony on my Abe Rivera seven - big ol' wood
tailpiece, piece of metal with a bar through it that attached to the
tailpiece and screwed to the bottom of the guitar, and an ebony square
covering the metal. The tailpiece eventually cracked at the two holes
- both holes cracked. Roger Borys did the repair work - he replaced
the ebony attachment with a metal one, and attached the tailpiece to
another piece of metal (D'Aquisto style, or like an Eastman). There
are a lot of variables, but I can tell you this is the darkest
sounding archtop I've ever played - I happen to love its tone. Don't
know how much the ebony tailpiece has to do with it, but I'm sure it
contributes.
ott...@hotmail.com
> FWIW my AF105 has an ebony tail and it has a darker meatier tone than
I have the AF105(Non Floater) but it's only a Ebony cover on top of a
metal Tailpiece underneath it, and attached by the usual 3 screws to
the body.
Bg
Mark Cleary
but they are not even close in how the sound is transmitted. A violin has a
tonebar that connects the top to the back of the violin. This cause the
whole instrument to respond different since the back acts as a tone
generating surface. An archtop guitar does not have this and it would reduce
the response as tone bars are sometimes put in archtops to reduce feedback.
The back of a guitar acts to bounce the sound out through the f holes.
Anyone who builds a guitar and tries to compare the way a violin responds to
the way a guitar response is clearly lost. That is why a rosewood back or
mahogany sounds different than a maple back guitar. Maple should produce a
crisper sound since it is much harder.
As far as the whole ebony tailpiece making a different sound I would agree
it is a choice. I personally as I said before think metal is better but
those are my ears. Sometimes it does not make huge differences it depends. I
have tried the same guitar with different tailpieces and it makes more of a
difference on guitars that are very responsive. An real example that I can
make is if I play my 49 D'angelico really hard driving style Freddie Green
Stuff the strings can rattle on the tailpiece under some conditions.
Syncopated vibration can occur and I could put a piece of felt around the
strings as the enter the tailpiece but it does not happen enough to bother
with. From this standpoint ebony can be quieter but that is why it loses
some of the sound. It can also be the way the guitar itself responds. A
guitar with a lot of treble response might sound better if you went to an
ebony tailpiece but it does require experimenting. Once in the early 1980's
Bill Barker had to replace a wooded tailpiece from a handmade guitar ( not
his guitar) and it really made the sound more responsive and much better
projection. It was pretty clear on that guitar the ebony tailpiece was not
allow the guitar's top move as freely.
Mark Cleary makes music on the finest Jazz guitars.
http://hollenbeckguitar.com/
"RickH®" <pass...@windcrestsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:1188487611.4...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
Alex
looks, but I don't want the guitar to get any darker, so I think I'll
let it alone.
mikeo
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:13:29 -0700, mikeo <mikeo...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >i've bought a couple of ebony TPs on eBay from an inlay craftsman in
> >China. I swear it was like $12 plus shipping(probably another $15 or
> >so) - not bad!
>
> Did you have to do any mods to it to fir the pups etc? I got one of
> those [likely on yr suggestion] buyt it's sitting in a drawer until I
> figure out how to chop a bit out to fir the pup.
>
i cannot figure out what you mean by "fir"??
i was referring to the Tailpiece; could you be talking about routing a
pickguard to install the pickup? i've definitely done a few of those
too.
Jon Fox
I changed out the original D'A tailpiece and pickguard on my NYL-2, you can
see before and afters on my site, http://www.jonfoxjazz.com/gear.html
The tailpiece (two of them, actually. I've relayed the tale here several
times, you can read about it on my site if you wish...look for "tailpiece
explosion") was made by Steve Holst, and honestly I remember thinking at the
time that it didn't make nearly as much difference in the sound as I had
expected. It was mostly an aesthetic choice for me, as well, although I was
interested to see what it would sound like. It is ebony attached to a metal
L-bracket.
The pickguard was made by a gentleman named Bobby Smith, who was my guitar
tech when I still lived in CO (man, I miss having a guy I REALLY trust to
work on my guitars...). I got a piece of ebony from Gary Mortoro, and Bobby
shaped it to my design. Now THAT made a much bigger difference in the
acoustic sound, I think due to the sound coming out of the F-hole bouncing
off the ebony, making it much brighter than with the original (plastic?)
tortoise-shell D'A pickguard. I don't think the amplified sound changed
nearly as much as the acoustic sound, but probably got a little brighter,
too. Maybe it's just my imagination based on the acoustic sound, however.
As others have stated, this change was different, but not necessarily better
or worse. As with so many other things, in the end I think it's just a
matter of personal preference.
Again, I was definitely surprised, as I expected the tailpiece to make a
much bigger difference than the pickguard, but it turned out to be the
opposite.
--
**********************************************
Jon Fox
Instructor of Commercial Music - Guitar
McLennan Community College
www.jonfoxjazz.com
"Alex" <apec...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188384594.0...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
RickH®
I just looked at my AF105 and there is a small amount of lightweight
metal, just enough to ground the strings. For the most part its still
a lightweight wood tail with only the string receiver appearing to be
a strip of metal about 3/16 inch square running the width of the
strings. Whereas the DA Excel and GB12 have heavy cast metal tails.
Morey Richman
John Buscarino sells an after market ebony tailpiece with brass hinge -
check his website.