Is there a current Telecaster model that can get close to the Ed Bickert sound?
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
that's the case?
Thanks,
Jonathan
Neil Lamb
If I'm remember correctly in an old interview Ed said he had
installed a Gibson humbucker in the neck position of his tele.
Best,
Neil
Bill C
<gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
I had a partscaster, chambered alder body, rosewood fingerboard, maple
neck, single coils, that sounded very close thru an old orange Cube
60. The playing was nowhere near though ...!
I believe this was the amp Ed used a lot, so it may have been more the
amp than my guitar.
tom walls
If you can find a Fat Tele with an ash body and rosewood neck, you'll
be very close, but you'll still need to swap out the neck pup.
sheetsofsound
just buy a nash or k-line tele and put in a neck humbucker. Nothing
fender makes is even close.
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
Is there a particular humbucker you recommend?
Also, do you know if flatwounds are part of Ed's sound?
Thanks!
Jonathan
drthoma...@gmail.com
According to Joey, Ed had a Gibson 57 classic.
> Also, do you know if flatwounds are part of Ed's sound?
Not according to Joey, IIRC.
Marc Why
> Is there a particular humbucker you recommend?
> Also, do you know if flatwounds are part of Ed's sound?
>
> Thanks!
> Jonathan
Jonathan (and others),
Beware of the endless search to sound like one of your favorite
players! Beware! Many a player has suffered on this path ...
That being said, teles with humbuckers are very cool, and easily made
or available by quality luthiers. Get one, and try to sound like
yourself.
Marc
(who wishes he could sound like Sco, Peter Bernstein, Kurt, etc. ad
nauseum)
Phil
I'm currently having one built -- not so I can sound like Ed (I can't)
but because I'm most comfy with a Telecaster body, but I want one
that's built for a jazz sound. I'm having one made with an alder
body, rosewood fingerboard, PAF style humbucker in the neck position,
brass saddles, etc. Its being done by a builder in the mid-west US.
I'll let you all know how it went once its all done.
Loki's Dad
I am selling an orange cube like the one mentioned in this thread
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200378446476&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
It looks like it would require quite a bit of surgery to install a
humbucker on a Nashville model:
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Deluxe-Nashville-Telecaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=510067
Wouldn't it be essier to start with a model that already has a meck
humbucker installed so the hole is the right size?
Jonathan (Cleve)
Jonathan,
Before going the custom instrument route or the "buy an instrument and
perform surgery" route, you might try the G&L ASAT Bluesboy. I don't
know about a Bickert sound (unless the guitar comes with Bickert's
hands), but I think it's a pretty good tele for jazz. You can also
order three or four different neck configurations.
I agree with the comments about chasing somebody else's sound. In my
experience, you never really get there. The trick is to find an
instrument you're comfortable with and pursue YOUR best sound.
Personally, I think that pursuit is easiest with ready-made
instruments, rather than trying to modify instruments in the hopes of
getting what you want.
Good luck in your quest.
Jonathan
(the real one)
tony...@yahoo.com
Not cheap but some great guitars if you are looking to go the Tele/
Humbucker route:
http://www.chapinguitars.com/models.html
Cheers,
Tony K
David J. Littleboy
"Marc Why" <mar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> That being said, teles with humbuckers are very cool, and easily made
> or available by quality luthiers. Get one, and try to sound like
> yourself.
I once played, and fell in love with, a Schecter Pete Townsend model tele.
The humbuckers in it were amazingly powerful and made wonderfully rich and
deep distorted tones. But it was out of my price range then.
Now that they're affordable (as the Schecter PT in half a dozen versions), I
hesitate, because I also like the traditional tele sound, and I can see
myself getting into terminal telecaster GAS with teles mulitplying like
tribbles and taking over my humble and already cramped due to the archtops
abode...
> Marc
> (who wishes he could sound like Sco, Peter Bernstein, Kurt, etc. ad
> nauseum)
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
dunlop212
USACG and electronics from whoever you want.
I can't think of a reason to pay four figures for a new wood plank
bolt neck guitar.
Derek
bucker in the neck, and recently had a K-Line thinline for a week for
a test drive.
Both are making guitars on par with or better than Fender's CS for a
fraction of the cost.
The DIY partscaster is also a good possiblity if you are handy with
the parts and wiring.
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
> I agree with Jack's suggestion. I own a Nash tele with a Lollar
> bucker in the neck, and recently had a K-Line thinline for a week for
> a test drive.
>
> Both are making guitars on par with or better than Fender's CS for a
> fraction of the cost.
I'm confused...is Nashville a brand of guitar?
I though Jack was just referring to the Nashville Telecaster model
Dan Adler
> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
Doesn't look to me like Ed relies on a humbucker to get his sound:
sheetsofsound
<gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 10:56 am, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 20, 10:15 am, "Jonathan (not from Cleveland)"
>
> > <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> > > neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>
> > > I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> > > that's the case?
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jonathan
>
> > just buy a nash or k-line tele and put in a neck humbucker. Nothing
> > fender makes is even close.
>
> Is there a particular humbucker you recommend?
> Also, do you know if flatwounds are part of Ed's sound?
Joey likes the 57 classic. Those are good but I'm leaning lately
towards the dimarzio 36th anniversary.
No need for big bucks here IMO...
sheetsofsound
<gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 10:56 am, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 20, 10:15 am, "Jonathan (not from Cleveland)"
>
> > <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> > > neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>
> > > I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> > > that's the case?
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jonathan
>
> > just buy a nash or k-line tele and put in a neck humbucker. Nothing
> > fender makes is even close.
>
> It looks like it would require quite a bit of surgery to install a
>
> Wouldn't it be essier to start with a model that already has a meck
> humbucker installed so the hole is the right size?
yeah but they are hard to find and the fender labeled ones are junk
IMO. Dipped in plastic, the finish is so thick. Get a thinly finished
one like a nash or k-line and you'll be supremely happy. I have one of
each if you want to try sometime though mine do not have the neck
humbucker.
sheetsofsound
are bright and shrill IMO
Derek
>
> I'm confused...is Nashville a brand of guitar?
> I though Jack was just referring to the Nashville Telecaster model
>
No, Nash guitars are assembled by Bill Nash, who has been doing this
since the 80's.
He has gotten popular with the recent relic trend, but whether or not
his guitars are relic'd, his work is very good.
He uses Fender licensed parts, as does K-Line, KingBee, Danocaster,
and a cast of other small companies who do this sort of work.
When Fender CS started charging $4k+ for guitars, it gave these other
companies incentive to do as good or better work for about 1/2 to 1/3
the price.
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
Yeah...
I was gonna say "classic jazz" sound, but that's so ambiguous :)
Thanks,
Jonathan
(the impostor)
skrohn
Chambered Mahogany with a maple top.
Two Seth Lover Pickups.
About 1" smaller than a tele at the
widest part, contoured for comfort.
Nails the sound.
Scott
pmfan57
This has come up before. He sounded like Ed Bickert even with the
regular tele pickup. It's in the fingers!
Dan Adler
Bg
>
> - Show quoted text -
Heh !
Bg
Joey Goldstein
> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
I don't believe so.
Most Fender-made Teles with humbuckers in the neck position have Fender
made humbuckers which, in my experience, aren't very good for jazz.
Not sure the pot values used on humbucker equipped use Teles either, but
they may use 25k post for the bridge pickup which is usually a single
coil pickup.
> I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> that's the case?
Ed used roundwounds gauged .010 to .052 with an unwound G string
probably an .016.
I my experience the following components are what's needed to come close
to Ed's tone from a Tele:
1. Alder body. Swamp ash doesn't seem to really cut it for this tone, at
least not in my experience. But who knows, I'll probably find out one
day that Ed's white Tele was indeed a swamp ash body.
But based on my experiments trying to cop Ed's tone, as I was checking
several Teles a few years ago, I'm guessing that his is an alder body.
2. PAF-style humbucker in neck position. My fav for jazz is still the
current Gibson 57 Classic. I'm told that Ed's humbucker was just some
generic early 70s era Gibson humbucker, although it may have been a
pre-Norlin model.
3. Six-saddle bridge for proper intonation.
Ed's guitar has a Fender-made 6-barrel-saddle steel "ashtray", bridge as
far as I know. I tend to prefer the sound of the Gotoh 6-saddle Tele
bridge myself for jazz.
5. Strings as discussed above.
6. Rosewood fretboard. Ed's guitar has the vintage Fender 7.5" radius
and thin vintage-style frets which probably both affect the tone
significantly. I prefer modern Fender necks myself.
(My own jazz-Tele has a 24.75" conversion neck on it with rosewood
fingerboard, 9.5" radius, made by USA Custom Guitars. The shorter scale
helps me with the heavier-than-I-used-to-play strings which are nowadays
Chromes .012 to .052 flats. My Tele inhabits the zone between Metheny
and Bickert, or so I like to tell myself.)
7. Great ears, taste and hard work.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
Joey Goldstein
Mine started out as a MIM Nashville Tele Deluxe.
> Nothing
> fender makes is even close.
Joey Goldstein
> On Nov 20, 10:04 am, "Jonathan (not from Cleveland)"
> <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there a particular humbucker you recommend?
>
> According to Joey, Ed had a Gibson 57 classic.
Not true.
>> Also, do you know if flatwounds are part of Ed's sound?
>
> Not according to Joey, IIRC.
True. Ed did not use flats.
Joey Goldstein
When I was putting my Tele together, about 6 years ago now, bot the MIM
Tele Deluxes and the USA Standard Teles both came with bodies that were
already routed out to accept a humbucker, but it had to be a model with
short legs as opposed to the long legs used on Gibson and Duncan humbuckers.
I.e. A Dimarzio would fit right in, assuming you have the correct
pick-guard.
If, as I did, you want a pup with the longer legs you'll need to scrape
out a bit more wood for the legs.
These days I think that the only bodies on Fender-made Teles and Strats
that aren't already routed out to take either single coils or humbuckers
are the ones with a vintage design.
David J. Littleboy
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> tomb...@jhu.edu wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 10:04 am, "Jonathan (not from Cleveland)"
>> <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Is there a particular humbucker you recommend?
>>
>> According to Joey, Ed had a Gibson 57 classic.
>
> Not true.
Humbuckers of some sort here. (Of course, the music is such a knockout the
pickups really don't matter.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDHZkNXsJY&feature=related
David J. Littleboy
"Jonathan (not from Cleveland)" <gosto.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>
> I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> that's the case?
FWIW, maybe I'm too easily amused/impressed, but I played a friend's strat
the other day and was knocked out at how gorgeous the clean sound was. He
had replaced the pickups with these.
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Vintage-Noiseless-Strat-Pickup-Set?sku=301632
IMHO, these cough up a perfectly acceptable "clean jazz sound". Fender also
makes a Tele set*. If the tele neck pickup is as nice as the strat one,
you'd have the best of both worlds. One could also consider using the neck
pickup from the strat set. Maybe a tele with three pickups using the bridge
pickup from the tele set and the other two from the strat set.
*: http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0992116000
sheetsofsound
> "Jonathan (not from Cleveland)" <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> > neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>
> > I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> > that's the case?
>
> FWIW, maybe I'm too easily amused/impressed, but I played a friend's strat
> the other day and was knocked out at how gorgeous the clean sound was. He
> had replaced the pickups with these.
>
Those are pretty much reknowned the world over as being horrible
pickups. The dimarzio virtual vintage and area pickups sound much
better. Those fender vintage noiseless are only available in the cheap
strats now. They have switched to the SCN Bill Lawrence designed
pickups on the higher end guitars.
dunlop212
that someone has already modded with upgraded pickups and electronics.
Just hang out at the TDPRI and fenderforum classifieds for a couple of
weeks. But sell the neck and get a custom made one; that's where you
get your real value. You will have $500-600 out of pocket for a guitar
that plays and sounds as good as anything a high end luthier puts out.
The neck choices at USCG are amazing, nut, scale, and taper can be
anything you want..
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
> Jonathan (not from Cleveland wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm confused...is Nashville a brand of guitar?
> > I though Jack was just referring to the Nashville Telecaster model
>
> No, Nash guitars are assembled by Bill Nash, who has been doing this
> since the 80's.
>
ROFL
Joey Goldstein
> On Nov 20, 8:23 pm, "David J. Littleboy" <davi...@gol.com> wrote:
>> "Jonathan (not from Cleveland)" <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
>>> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>>> I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
>>> that's the case?
>> FWIW, maybe I'm too easily amused/impressed, but I played a friend's strat
>> the other day and was knocked out at how gorgeous the clean sound was. He
>> had replaced the pickups with these.
>>
>> http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Vintage-Noisele...
>
> Those are pretty much reknowned the world over as being horrible
> pickups.
lol
> The dimarzio virtual vintage and area pickups sound much
> better. Those fender vintage noiseless are only available in the cheap
> strats now. They have switched to the SCN Bill Lawrence designed
> pickups on the higher end guitars.
Joey Goldstein
I've currently got another neck on order from USACG.
It'll be a 25" scale conversion Strat neck (which will also mount on my
Tele bodies too).
The price he gave me was *really* good.
Should have it before Christmas.
ScotGormley
<gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>
> I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> that's the case?
>
> Jonathan
I have two G&L Bluesboy guitars, and they both sound great. My
preference is the one with an ebony fingerboard and chambered body.
The other one has a maple neck and solid body. They both have Duncan
Seth Lover HBs in the neck position. The Seth Lover pickups are very
warm.
I believe Ed Bickert used roundwounds--not too heavy (11 - 50, for
example). His tone was rolled off to about 3 or 4.
BTW: I also have a heavily reliced Nash, as Jack mentions. The neck is
solid maple and U shaped (like a baseball bat). I had a Lollar Charlie
Christian pickup installed in the neck position. The CC pickup is
really powerful, and the guitar sounds good, but I have to roll the
tone off to about 3 to get any kind of jazz sound--otherwise it's very
bright. I also have a Fender Custom Shop NAMM Show special tele (like
a Keith Richards model) with a Duncan '59. I really love that guitar.
Too bad you're not from Cleveland--you could stop by to compare a few
of these teles.
blackcat
Seems that he didn't in the early days and still got a great sound
( fingers again?!! ).
For me, the MIM ( but all American parts ) Baja Tele with an SD Alnico
II replacement in the neck position comes pretty close soundwise.
Blackcat
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
Is there even such a thing as a "regular" tele pickup anymore?
There are more Telecaster models than Keno permutations these days :)
Tim McNamara
<53aa8707-befe-4d35...@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
sheetsofsound <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Get a thinly finished one like a nash or k-line and you'll be
> supremely happy.
What difference does the finish make in the sound of a plank guitar?
drthoma...@gmail.com
> In article
> <53aa8707-befe-4d35-98e7-38533dc74...@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>
> sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Get a thinly finished one like a nash or k-line and you'll be
> > supremely happy.
>
> What difference does the finish make in the sound of a plank guitar?
Everything makes a difference. Thinly finished guitars feel better to
hold, which makes you play better. My ears aren't good enough to hear
any sonic difference between a thick finish tele and a thin finish
tele -- but I'll bet Jack can hear it.
Jonathan (Cleve)
> In article
> <53aa8707-befe-4d35-98e7-38533dc74...@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > Get a thinly finished one like a nash or k-line and you'll be
> > supremely happy.
>
> What difference does the finish make in the sound of a plank guitar?
Call me a Philistine, but I doubt there's much difference. Of course,
I haven't played a Nash or K-line, and so maybe I'm all wet. But the
couple ASATs I played sounded good to my ears.
Tim McNamara
<076c377a-f136-45e6...@o23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
"tomb...@jhu.edu" <drthoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think a lot of this stuff is akin to the princess and the pea.
Greger Hoel
> Not cheap but some great guitars if you are looking to go the Tele/
> Humbucker route:
>
> http://www.chapinguitars.com/models.html
3k for a Tele!? I'll pass, unless it has Moog Guitar circuitry.
--
Always cross a vampire; never moon a werewolf
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
This may be a dumb question, but does the "relicification" process
damage the guitar at all, or leave it less protected from the
elements?
Do they start with new components and age them, or do they use old
necks, bodies, pickups, etc.?
I've been looking at Nash and K-Line pictures on their websites, and
it looks like there are unfinished areas on the body and neck.
Also, the hardware looks tarnished or rusty in some of the pictures.
Could this be a problem?
Jonathan (Cleve)
The "relicification" process exposes the bare wood on some areas of
the guitar, leaving those areas vulnerable to nicks and scratches.
Something you certainly wouldn't want on your brand new relic
guitar. :-)
Big Candy
> On Nov 20, 10:15�am, "Jonathan (not from Cleveland)"
> <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
>> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>>
>> I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
>> that's the case?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jonathan
>
> just buy a nash or k-line tele and put in a neck humbucker. Nothing
> fender makes is even close.
This is sort of an ignorant answer.
Bickert used his '61 Tele with the stock neck pickup for many years,
over a decade I think. His tone was wonderful with it.
Currently one of Bill Frisell's main guitars is a Fender Thinline
Telecaster with a single coil neck pickup.
The Telecaster is a great Jazz guitar as is. The Strat can be a wonder
jazz guitar (see Eric Johnson- Tribute to Wes on youtube for more info
or any of the Leni Stern vids). Hell, Joe Pass even made great music on
a Jazzmaster and a Jaguar(!) before his ES-175.
Are there crappy stock Telecaster neck pickups? Sure. But some are just
fine. Pre CBS Tele neck pups are wonderful. The Fender Twisted Tele
neck pup on some of the current models has great tone. Lollar, Fralin
and many boutique pickup makers are turning out great sounding Tele
pickups. Angeltone's Model 50R is a seriously great neck pup with a
thick rich tone.
Many, if not most, jazz guitar aficionados and players are rigid if not
down right fascist about a proper jazz guitar being a traditional
semi-hollow "jazz box" with a humbucker neck pickup, Gibson preferred
but a tasty Guild will do in a pinch. They are dead sure that the sound
must be fairly dark and round. This is anal retentive thinking. I used
to think like this, until I saw Ed Bickert play 20 years ago. I was
like "what the hell is he playing?" It opened my eyes and my ears.
Almost all lovers of Jazz guitar will hail Django Reinhardt as maybe
the greatest Jazz guitarist of all time. And as I recall Django's
Selmer was awfully twangy.
Play what ever guitar you are comfortable playing. Experiment with it's
tone. Playing Jazz should open the mind, not close it off.
Big Candy
Sure it is. All guitar bodies with good tone wood should be encased in
an 1/8 of an inch of hard plastic.
Peter Huggins
John's Guitar Night at Spazio. Carl brought in a plexi Marshall head
with a Dr. Z bottom, and a Fender Telecaster thinline. During the break
I asked Carl why the rock setup for a jazz gig. "The Marshall because it
sounds great," he said, "and because it has become so valuable I can't
take it on the road any more. And the Tele because I was thinking of Ed
Bickert and Ted Greene."
The setup did sound great, full and clear with zero distortion. There
were only like a dozen people in the audience; a couple weeks ago Carl
played the Baked Potato with his own band, despite the higher cover
charge and rigidly enforced two drink minimum he sold out the first set
and packed the second one. Granted the Baked Potato only seats about 90
people, but where was the jazz audience for the Spazio set ????
BTW Carl will be playing the Guitar Geek Festival in January with fellow
superpicker Steve Trovato. guitargeekfestival.com
if mail to this address bounces, please forward to :
guitarmaniax 'at' msn.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
" I`d dance with you Maria, but my hands are on fire " - Bob Dylan
" We had a knob, and all we had to do was turn it." - Les Paul
Grins, Peter
http://community.webtv.net/guitarmaniax/THISISTHE
http://community.webtv.net/guitarmaniax/unfinished3
guitarannie
> Many, if not most, jazz guitar aficionados and players are rigid if not
> down right fascist about a proper jazz guitar being a traditional
> semi-hollow "jazz box" with a humbucker neck pickup,
On this page
http://www.myspace.com/sharylsmithguitarist
The first 5 songs are:
Fender Jaguar HH on the right. The one with the most sustain.
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Jaguar-HH-Electric-Guitar?sku=511323
Byrdland with 57 classic. on the left.
Both recorded through a 12ax7 in a preamp so the tone has no external
speaker involved.
Direct to hard drive.
Each one got played in a slightly different way partly because of the
instrument.
I gravitate towards the Fender to play out most of the time. I like
long sustained notes.
I'm gonna sell the Byrdland.
Neither sounds like a Rock guitar to me. Must be the pickup and the
tone setting.
They both sound good to me.
SAS
bird...@earthlink.net
<gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>
> I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> that's the case?
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
Check out this dude's vid on youtube -- tele with Lollar CC PU...
Gerry
> Many, if not most, jazz guitar aficionados and players are rigid if not
> down right fascist about a proper jazz guitar being a traditional
> semi-hollow "jazz box" with a humbucker neck pickup, Gibson preferred
> but a tasty Guild will do in a pinch. They are dead sure that the sound
> must be fairly dark and round. This is anal retentive thinking. I used
> to think like this, until I saw Ed Bickert play 20 years ago. I was
> like "what the hell is he playing?" It opened my eyes and my ears.
> Almost all lovers of Jazz guitar will hail Django Reinhardt as maybe
> the greatest Jazz guitarist of all time. And as I recall Django's
> Selmer was awfully twangy.
>
> Play what ever guitar you are comfortable playing.
That's right, and when you find what's right for you and trumpet your
view, you'll be called rigid if not down right fascist". Enjoy!
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.
Big Candy
Sounds like something stung you a bit.
Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of a nice jazz box Gibson, prefer
the Howard Roberts model myself, but are you trying to say that most
players don't look down their nose at Fenders for playing Jazz? I have
seen evidence of it in this group over the years, not mention out in
the real world where I have been told more than once when the Tele
comes out to "get a real guitar if you wanna play Jazz".
Bg
my Archtop, and they may be right.
I just don't like the weight of a solidbody.
Bg
Gerry
> On 2009-12-03 10:01:59 -0600, Gerry <some...@sunny.calif> said:
>
>> On 2009-12-02 09:44:23 -0800, Big Candy <N...@no.way> said:
>>
>>> Many, if not most, jazz guitar aficionados and players are rigid if not
>>> down right fascist about a proper jazz guitar being a traditional
>>> semi-hollow "jazz box" with a humbucker neck pickup, Gibson preferred
>>> but a tasty Guild will do in a pinch. They are dead sure that the sound
>>> must be fairly dark and round. This is anal retentive thinking. I used
>>> to think like this, until I saw Ed Bickert play 20 years ago. I was
>>> like "what the hell is he playing?" It opened my eyes and my ears.
>>> Almost all lovers of Jazz guitar will hail Django Reinhardt as maybe
>>> the greatest Jazz guitarist of all time. And as I recall Django's
>>> Selmer was awfully twangy.
>>>
>>> Play what ever guitar you are comfortable playing.
>>
>> That's right, and when you find what's right for you and trumpet your
>> view, you'll be called rigid if not down right fascist". Enjoy!
>
>
> Sounds like something stung you a bit.
Not at all. I just like to point out inconsistencies, contradictions
and hypocrisy when I encounter it.
> Don't get me wrong,
Too late! :-)
> ... I love the sound of a nice jazz box Gibson, prefer the Howard
> Roberts model myself, but are you trying to say that most players don't
> look down their nose at Fenders for playing Jazz?
I don't know most people so I find it more difficult to speak on their
behalf than some others do. Additionally I don't really care what they
think or do as much as my own pursuits.
I don't think the guitarists I've met are rigid and fascist about
archtops because they hate something else so much as they love
archtops. I like a martini made of Dutch gins over many other gins.
Others could call me rigid. What can I do? Defend myself? Why
bother...
> I have seen evidence of it in this group over the years, not mention
> out in the real world where I have been told more than once when the
> Tele comes out to "get a real guitar if you wanna play Jazz".
Me too. So what? Maybe they don't like the Tele sound and don't think
it sounds like a "jazz guitar". At some level I agree. It's sustain
is too long for what we think of as the classic sound produced by
Raney, Pass, Hall, and others. That's true. I know that many of the
"greats" had occasions when they used solid-body guitars, but with very
few exceptions, they rejected these instruments and played archtops.
Almost universally, archtop is the guitar design of choice.
Nevertheless Ed Bickert is a god to me; one of few. I have a solid-body
guitar and love the sustain it provides me, and play it without
effects. If you play jazz you can get jazz out of a uke.
girel...@gmail.com
> Among the myriad Telecaster (and G & L) offerings, is there one with a
> neck humbucker that can get you close to the Ed Bickert sound?
>
> I assume Ed uses flatwounds on his Telecaster...does anybody know if
> that's the case?
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
David J. Littleboy
Another old thread resurrected.
Although I didn't buy one, I thought the G&L Telecaster clones looked really
nice. They have a pricey, US (or is it Canada?) made, semi-hollow model with
a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover in the neck position. It's also available in an
import version with more generic pups and a more reasonable price (although
it's quite pricey for an import).
FWIW, I put .011 flatwounds on my Alan Holdsworth model Carvin. Sounds
lovely. The .010 roundwounds it came with sounded quite lovely, too, but in
a rather slinky electricy way. The .011s pulled the neck a bit up, though,
so I dropped the tension, and adjusted the truss rod. The truss rod was
completely loose (!!!), and tightening it down until it just engaged and
then a bit more was plenty to get the string height back to ridiculously
low.
-- David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
wrote in message
news:be43e187-9eb8-4c1e...@googlegroups.com...
Gerry
> FWIW, I put .011 flatwounds on my Alan Holdsworth model Carvin. Sounds
> lovely. The .010 roundwounds it came with sounded quite lovely, too,
> but in a rather slinky electricy way. The .011s pulled the neck a bit
> up, though, so I dropped the tension, and adjusted the truss rod. The
> truss rod was completely loose (!!!), and tightening it down until it
> just engaged and then a bit more was plenty to get the string height
> back to ridiculously low.
--
Sunday is my new usenet day. All the others are for fun.
David J. Littleboy
shown here.
http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/products/detail/item/172673/
The video on that page with Holdsworth himself is fun, although it is a
rather pushy advertisement.
It's much lighter than a Strat or Les Paul, but I wonder if the painted
versions (alder, not mahogany) are even lighter?
Oh, yes. The flatwounds I currently like are the Thomastik "Jazz Swing"
sets, and the low ends are lighter than the corresponding gages in most
other brands: .011 to .047, vs. .011 to .050. The 0.47 goes into the
headstock with a bit of pushing, a 0.50 might not.
Speaking of strings, I f@cked up and ordered two sets of Jazz Bebop .011 to
.047, which are, yuck, roundwound strings. Oops. I'll mail them to the first
person who sends me their physical mailing address to my email address (not
group) and promises to actually use (or at least try) them.
Gerry
but I'll never go back.
David J. Littleboy
>>
>> Speaking of strings, I f@cked up and ordered two sets of Jazz Bebop .011
>> to .047, which are, yuck, roundwound strings. Oops. I'll mail them to the
>> first person who sends me their physical mailing address to my email
>> address (not group) and promises to actually use (or at least try) them.
>
>I didn't know you were a flatwinder. Took me 50 years to get there, but
>I'll never go back.
so, that the player had put incredibly heavy flatwounds on. I had so much
fun playing it that my fingers were sore for weeks. But I never used flats
myself until I started doing jazz here, were everyone plays flats. So it
took me only 40 years.
I doubt that I'll try flats on my Martin OOO-28, though.
Whatever, I'd had a taker on the Bebops, so they're gone (or will be
tomorrow morning).
van
Then I played a Beauregard MB and fell in love with the sound and playability of the guitar. I forgot to ask what strings were on it.
I called up the store owner and asked him which strings were on it, and he said TI Swings! Aghhh!
He could have been mistaken (he has over 100 high-end jazz guitars in his store), but it also could have been the guitar and/or the set-up.
MBs go for 10K- do I have to pay that much for flat wound bliss? ; - )
Tim McNamara
wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking of strings, I f@cked up and ordered two sets of Jazz Bebop
>>> .011 to .047, which are, yuck, roundwound strings. Oops. I'll mail
>>> them to the first person who sends me their physical mailing address
>>> to my email address (not group) and promises to actually use (or at
>>> least try) them.
>>
>>I didn't know you were a flatwinder. Took me 50 years to get there,
>>but I'll never go back.
>
> Yep. I ran into a lovely Martin D-<something or other> when I was like
> 15 or so, that the player had put incredibly heavy flatwounds on. I
> had so much fun playing it that my fingers were sore for weeks. But I
> never used flats myself until I started doing jazz here, were everyone
> plays flats. So it took me only 40 years.
mostly roundwounds. Lately I've got BB113s on my archtop and am really
liking those on that instrument, and Pyramid nickel .012s with an
unwound G string and round cores on my Tele and *really* liking those.
I have found that with roundwounds (for now at least) I prefer the
darker and softer sound of nickel strings rather than SS strings,
especially on the Tele.
Those headless Carvins intrigue me. I am very tempted to get one of
them. I wondered about the string gauge issue (since Holdworth uses
.008s or .009s) and am not sure about the 24 fret neck. The one in the
ad David linked to is the best looking one of those I have seen. Nice!
thomas
Tim McNamara
tough to make one neck heavy- no headstock and the tuners are behind the
bridge. I've never had a chance to play any model of Carvin. The
non-headless Allan Holdsworth Fatboy/etc. are reputed to have huge necks
and since they are semi-hollows, it might be pretty easy to be neck
heavy. A lot of guitars are neck heavy, it seems- probably less of an
issue in full sized archtops like a lot of us play!
Gerry
he didn't want the guitar, IIRC.
Gerry
>>> Those headless Carvins intrigue me. I am very tempted to get one of
>>> them. I wondered about the string gauge issue (since Holdworth uses
>>> .008s or .009s) and am not sure about the 24 fret neck. The one in
>>> the ad David linked to is the best looking one of those I have seen.
>>> Nice!
>>
>> See Jack Zucker's reviews of the Carvins in this ng. IIRC, he
>> complained that they are neck-heavy.
>
> I'll look for those. Given that the HH2 is headless, I think it'd be
> tough to make one neck heavy- no headstock and the tuners are behind the
> bridge.
specs. He wanted minimal weight all around.
Bill Godwin
David J. Littleboy
>
>Those headless Carvins intrigue me. I am very tempted to get one of
>them. I wondered about the string gauge issue (since Holdworth uses
>.008s or .009s) and am not sure about the 24 fret neck. The one in the
>ad David linked to is the best looking one of those I have seen. Nice!
needs a bit to withstand TI Jazz Swing .011s, which clearly have a lot more
tension than the slinky electrics that were on it. Watch this space; I'll
report occasionally as to whether or not it's surviving<g>. For the nonce,
it seems fine...
David J. Littleboy
>>
>> Those headless Carvins intrigue me. I am very tempted to get one of
>> them. I wondered about the string gauge issue (since Holdworth uses
>> .008s or .009s) and am not sure about the 24 fret neck. The one in the
>> ad David linked to is the best looking one of those I have seen. Nice!
>
>See Jack Zucker's reviews of the Carvins in this ng. IIRC, he complained
>that they are neck-heavy.
year.
And it seems he's not playing it. Not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr9qNnKQmWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsTER5EwBM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfVtZS0S0oc
Nil
rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz:
> "thomas" wrote:
>>
>> See Jack Zucker's reviews of the Carvins in this ng. IIRC, he
>> complained that they are neck-heavy.
>
> If he did, he was full of crap. That's the stupidest thing I've
> heard all year.
several samples made over the manufacturing lifespan of the model to
know whether they may have changed over the years?
> And it seems he's not playing it. Not.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr9qNnKQmWY
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsTER5EwBM
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfVtZS0S0oc
heavy.
David J. Littleboy
I've owned one for a few months now. The idea that the neck is heavy is
completely nuts. It's probably the best balancing guitar I've ever played.
Someone else claimed that Holdsworth wasn't playing his. The videos show
that he is.
Carvin makes a zillion guitars, and there was a Holdsworth model with a
normal head. That one might be neck heavy.
-- David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
van
Golden Age specializes in high-end guitars of all types- not just jazz.
thomas
> >
> >See Jack Zucker's reviews of the Carvins in this ng. IIRC, he complained
> >that they are neck-heavy.
>
> If he did, he was full of crap. That's the stupidest thing I've heard all
> year.
>
There's a girl in the audience. At a Holdsworth concert!
Gerry
> I've owned one for a few months now. The idea that the neck is heavy is
> completely nuts. It's probably the best balancing guitar I've ever
> played.
>
> Someone else claimed that Holdsworth wasn't playing his. The videos
> show that he is.
Holdsworth didn't like their production model guitar which was built to
his own design, and so did not play one. That doesn't make it a fact;
just what I heard. Maybe he's playing one of the prototypes. I can't
say.
> Carvin makes a zillion guitars, and there was a Holdsworth model with a
> normal head. That one might be neck heavy.
Gerry
> On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 12:01:57 AM UTC-5, David J. Littleboy wrote:
>>>
>>> See Jack Zucker's reviews of the Carvins in this ng. IIRC, he complained
>>> that they are neck-heavy.
>>
>> If he did, he was full of crap. That's the stupidest thing I've heard all
>> year.
>
> Blame my memory, not Jack. You must admit he is pretty good at finding
> fault with guitars though.
was the body, not the neck per se. I also know that they went through a
number of prototypes that didn't meet Holdsworths requirements. I
think it's fair at this point to say we don't know what the sum of all
this was.
CR
"Bill Godwin" <billgod...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36f5531f-13ac-418c...@googlegroups.com...
well as other instruments) of all types, is a really nice guy, and his place
is like a museum of great guitars. http://www.retrofret.com/
For some reason that I never understood, he also use the name Misurgia.
http://musurgia.com/ As far as I know, it's the same place and same
inventory but you can ask him about that business move.
Gerry
> ...I did hear they were neck heavy but that the issue was the body, not
> prototypes that didn't meet Holdsworths requirements. I think it's
> fair at this point to say we don't know what the sum of all this was.
materials, I', qiote sire I confused about some aspect of the story.
Holdsworth is clearly crazy about the Carvin HH series (HH1, HH2, etc.)
and one of the dominant rationales is the weight, balance and size of
the guitar.
Gerry
> "Gerry" wrote:
>> On 2015-01-14 02:42:43 +0000, David J. Littleboy said:
>>
>>> FWIW, I put .011 flatwounds on my Alan Holdsworth model Carvin. Sounds
>>> lovely. The .010 roundwounds it came with sounded quite lovely, too,
>>> but in a rather slinky electricy way. The .011s pulled the neck a bit
>>> up, though, so I dropped the tension, and adjusted the truss rod. The
>>> truss rod was completely loose (!!!), and tightening it down until it
>>> just engaged and then a bit more was plenty to get the string height
>>> back to ridiculously low.
>>
>> I don't suppose you have pics of this...?
>
> As before, the beast itself is the maple top with mahogany body/neck
> version shown here.
>
> http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/products/detail/item/172673/
replicates this:
http://www.carvinguitars.com/guitars-in-stock/113848
And for aiding my next re-search of this page: Carvin HH2x Allan
Holdsworth Signature.