Archtop Review - DeArmond X-145

mark

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Aug 6, 2003, 9:24:14 PM8/6/03

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I thought I'd post this here, as often people ask for low-cost archtop
recommendations. I think I've found a winner here, and thought the info
could be of use to others.

I've wanted an archtop since January, when I decided to give up the blues
and learn jazz. It's been real slow going, but I'm making steady progress.
But back to the topic at hand.... I waited until recently to purchase an
archtop, mostly because I wanted to make sure that I stuck with the practice
regimen that jazz is requiring of me. About a month ago I decided it was
time to get one, so I started looking around. Unfortunately, this was not a
pleasant experience. Nothing under $1000 locally was available, and I went
to every music store I could find in the area. As many people have probably
found out, trying to locate a used quality archtop for that price or less is
kind of hard unless you're willing to do mail-order. After reading a lot of
reviews of archtops from the usual sources, I decided to bite the bullet and
try ebay when I saw that a natural finish, mint X-145 came up for sale. I
think I overpaid for it ($360, especially considering these things were
blown out, as many of you know, for $249 just a couple of years ago when
Fender bought DeArmond). But considering that legato guitars is/was selling
a squire x-155 for almost $800, I figured what the heck. I also worried that
the X-145, which does not have the DeArmond Goldtone pickups which are
supposed to be better for jazz but instead has 2 DeArmond Dearmitron
pickups. The Dearmotrons I think were made for more of a twangy style. I
figured for the price what the heck. My other option was to spend a couple
hundred more on an Epi archtop, but I wasn't thrilled with the few I was
able to try.

First off, when I first got the guitar I immediately put size 12 Labella
flatwound strings on it. I had never tried flatwounds before, but I figured
that would give me a more suitable jazz tone. Boy, was I wrong. On this
guitar, it absolutely ruined the tone. I still can't get over how bad those
strings sounded on this guitar. I'm just not cut out for flatwound strings I
guess. After 4 days of struggling with those, I took em off and put on
Tomastik BeBop strings, and immediately this improved the tone drastically.
It took a few days for the strings to fully stretch (no buzziness about
them, and much warmer). Now I love the tone of the guitar. And acoustically,
it is quite loud. In fact, I usually don't play it through my amp. I tried
the Epi archtops and none of them gave any decent volume when not plugged
in. The guitar has some rough spots - for example, the f-hole binding is
sloppy, and the knobs are really cheap and cheesy looking (but those I'll
replace with a $10 set of replacement knobs). The more I play the guitar,
the more I love it. It stays in tune very well, and probably what is most
surpising to me is that, although it is a pretty "deep" archtop (about 3 and
1/4" body depth), it only took a couple of days to get used to playing it
(I've been playing a Telecaster for the past 7 years!). In fact, it has
really helped my right-hand technique, as my picking arm is on more of a
fixed axis due to my having a built-in rest spot for my right arm! I'm able
to pick from the elbow much more steadily now. I always had trouble with
that before.

I like the guitar a lot as is, but am thinking that, perhaps I shoudl try
and improve the tone by putting in a seymour duncan '59 pickup in the neck.
The only archtop that I liked a lot that I tried in the store was one at my
local sam ash, a gibson es-175 that cost close to $3000. It has PAFs in it
(I believe), and I like that tone a lot. I'm handy with a soldering iron, so
I may try this. If anyone has any thoughts concerning that, please let me
know.

One thing I don't like about the guitar when I received it - the previous
owner said it was played less than an hour, and after inspecting it over the
past week I'd say he probably wasn't lying about that as there isn't a
scratch on it anywhere. However, the rosewood fretboard looks like it is
kind of dried out in a couple of small spots at the higher frets. I'll look
on the web for some type of fretboard conditioner or something. They aren't
damaged, just dry looking. Wierd. I didn't know that a fretboard could do
that, as my only other guitar I've played for years has a maple fretboard.

All in all, it's a great guitar for the price. I'm very happy with it. I
would have never risked buying an archtop off ebay since I couldn't play it,
and I'm sure there are plenty of clunker dearmond's being sold since it is a
budget guitar, but I took the risk and I think this one is a keeper.

That said, now that I know I enjoy the feel and of course sound of an
archtop, I do think I'm going to save some money and later this year when
the great american guitar show comes around my way again (Philly) I'll see
if there are any used archtops I like.

Greg D

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Aug 7, 2003, 6:26:21 AM8/7/03

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mark,

You didn't get screwed on the price. We had to stand in line for months
online and many, if not most of us never got one of those special deals
from a few years back.

As for swapping the pup - don't. You'll ruin the distinctive tone and not
gain much if anything (assuming your 145 has the US-made DeArmond). For
example, I bought an X-155 (wish I'd kept it) with 2 DeArmonds. I ab'ed
it with my Epi Joe Pass which had the SD '59 PAFs in it. Know what? I
ended up selling the 155 becuse I thought it redundant as it sounded as
good as the SD pups. In short, it sounded excellent and I didn't need to
realy nice sounding archtops that sounded very similar. Antithetical to
my usual philosophy, I know.

So don't waste your money on new pups. Enjoy that axe as she is.

Greg

RA

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Aug 7, 2003, 7:44:04 AM8/7/03

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I had the X-135 for awhile and the craftsmanship was excellent.
The X-145 was introduced as a cheaper alternative to the 135 and 155,
so it might be worthwhile putting in some quality pickups?

I'd recommend http://billlawrence.com (if you don't mind waiting a few months)

best regards,
RA
http://ykids.com

Jurupari

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Aug 7, 2003, 11:05:25 AM8/7/03

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I like my X-145 as is. I adjusted the pickups a little for boominess, but that
was all. I've had it in a quartet with both electric and upright bass, on solo
gigs and with an acoustic guitarist and vocalist as the 'color' instrument, and
it's kiced ass so far. I can play crescent blues and get that tex and chi
sound on really heavy strings since the frets are so tall, and there's so much
wood in the lattice supports inside the body.

It looks like it was made out of a shipping crate, or as I introduced it in the
vocal act, 'made from fine Korean porch wood" and the tuning knobs are more
suitible for a humidifier but its acoustic tone is way good. I just walked
into a music store and saw the price, played it and said 'what the hell'. I've
loved it so far.

Clif Kuplen

Margaret Wilson

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Aug 7, 2003, 11:17:57 AM8/7/03

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Mark, a good fretboard treatment (for unfinished fretboards like rosewood or
ebony) is lemon oil. It's also good for cleaning the gunk off. Apply
lightly once or twice a year as needed, wipe it off, and all will be fine.
:-)

Regards,

Margaret

"mark" <mark...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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Idawg

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Aug 7, 2003, 1:30:57 PM8/7/03

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Congrats, your guitar sounds excellent. I'd love to hear a soundclip
if you have one.

If you are looking for information on your frets/fretboard etc... I
would recommend checking out http://www.frets.com

As a side note. For myself, I noticed my overall tone improved alot
when I started practicing plugged in, even at a really low volume.

HotchkissTrio

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Aug 7, 2003, 2:25:13 PM8/7/03

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I replaced some Ibanez pups with a 59, and loved it. That's a great
soudning pickup. But the ibanez pups I replaced sounded dead, so
anything would've sounded better. If it ain't broke, don't fix. If
you like the DeArmond's, just keep em.

I think it sounds like a really good deal, $360 for a nice archtop!
That's great.

-Paul H.

Greg D <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<Xns93D0418167E...@68.1.17.6>...

LarryV

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Aug 7, 2003, 2:25:57 PM8/7/03

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I had an X-155, but I didn't particularly like the pickups on it. They
seemed to have a midrange spike that I didn't care for. It was an okay
guitar, but not one I ever ended up missing after I sold it.

Greg D <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<Xns93D0418167E...@68.1.17.6>...

Greg D

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Aug 7, 2003, 7:11:30 PM8/7/03

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Margaret,

> Mark, a good fretboard treatment (for unfinished fretboards like
> rosewood or ebony) is lemon oil. It's also good for cleaning the gunk
> off. Apply lightly once or twice a year as needed, wipe it off, and
> all will be fine.

Actually, Taylor Guitars recommends the use of "bore oil" for ebony
boards, which most of their products use. It works really well on ebony,
having been a prev Taylor owner - don't ask; it's one of the good onse I
let get away and now regret :) Bore oil is the stuff woodwind players
use. A small bottle lasts just about forever. Do not use it on rosewood,
though.

While lemon oil is *not* recommended for ebony, it works just fine for
rosewood boards. I use Gibson's fretbaord conditioner which is primarily
lemon oil.

Finished maple boards can just use guitar polish.

Greg

Greg D

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Aug 7, 2003, 7:12:30 PM8/7/03

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ida...@yahoo.com (Idawg) wrote in
news:9f63c710.03080...@posting.google.com:

Absolutely right! I Do that even with my flattop. You then hear all the
mis-fingerings that you don't hear when playing acoustically.

GReg

Margaret Wilson

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Aug 7, 2003, 9:08:48 PM8/7/03

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This is the first I've heard that lemon oil is not recommended for ebony,
and I've owned a couple Taylors and a few high-end classicals (with ebony
boards) over the past 30+ years. Carvin recommends lemon oil for both
rosewood and ebony. Elderly Instruments recommends lemon oil. If you check
the classical rmcg, you'll see a recent thread where lemon oil is the
cleaner/treatment of choice for ebony boards.

Now if you do some research, you *can* find instances where certain oils are
not recommended, but only because easily attainable, cheap preparations
often contain silicone or other harmful chemicals. A good quality, pure
lemon oil is no worse for ebony than is linseed oil, olive oil, or any other
oil luthiers commonly recommend. Anyone who recommends against lemon oil is
probably thinking you're going to put Lemon Pledge on your fretboard!

Greg, I'd be interested in seeing exactly what Taylor has to say on the
subject. I can't find anything re fretboard care on their web site, and
although I don't read that Taylor newspaper thing in its entirety, I've
never seen anything there either.

Regards,

Margaret

"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message

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Greger Hoel

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Aug 7, 2003, 9:40:30 PM8/7/03

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On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:17:57 -0400, "Margaret Wilson"
<twok...@nospam.msn.com> wrote:

>Mark, a good fretboard treatment (for unfinished fretboards like rosewood or
>ebony) is lemon oil. It's also good for cleaning the gunk off. Apply
>lightly once or twice a year as needed, wipe it off, and all will be fine.

Oils containing citrus acid break down the wood. The widespread use of
lemon oil on fretboards has more to do with the pleasant scent than
anything else, IMO. If you buy a bottle of lemon oil in a music store
nowadays, odds are you'll get a bottle bottle with some other oil in
it that's been scented with lemon.

A luthier I know uses vaseline oil thinned with terpentine. Almond oil
works very good too.

Margaret Wilson

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Aug 7, 2003, 9:19:45 PM8/7/03

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OOPS, "linseed oil" should read "boiled linseed oil." :-)

Regards,

Margaret

"Margaret Wilson" <twok...@nospam.msn.com> wrote in message
news:bgut6...@enews1.newsguy.com...

RA

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Aug 7, 2003, 10:14:55 PM8/7/03

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"Margaret Wilson" <twok...@nospam.msn.com> wrote

> Mark, a good fretboard treatment (for unfinished fretboards like rosewood or
> ebony) is lemon oil. It's also good for cleaning the gunk off. Apply
> lightly once or twice a year as needed, wipe it off, and all will be fine.
> :-)

Just don't do like the guy on alt.guitar who was complaining
of 'stickiness' after he treated his fretboard with lemon 'juice'.

regards,
RA

mark

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Aug 7, 2003, 10:41:46 PM8/7/03

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Hi Greg,

I'm still not sure whether to replace the neck pickup or not. I do like the
guitar a lot as it is. The pickups on the X-145 are not the same as the one
on the X-135 (single pickup model) or the X-155 (dual pickup model, with
binding and inlays, otherwise identical). Those came with DeArmond Goldtone
pickups, while the X-145 I have came with DeArmond DeArmitron pickups. There
is no info on the web that I can find about these pickups, although I read
something somewhere that they are supposed to be a twangy type pickup - like
a Gretsch sound. I have never changed pickups before on a guitar, heck, for
the matter I've only really owned one other guitar for the past 7 years (a
Tele), and I figured since a lot of the players whose sound I like used PAFs
I might try one in the neck.

I'm working on some sound clips and will post soon.

"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message

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Greg D

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Aug 7, 2003, 10:46:22 PM8/7/03

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Margaret,

OK.

My use of "bore oil" is based on talking on the phone to the guy at
Taylor Guitars who wrote all the care and feeding docs for Taylor
guitars. I can't remember his name, but he is now a VP at Taylor - one of
the few famous artisans there. Back in 90's, they were very approachable
and we chatted for some time on conditioning the board (he recommended
once per year) and which polish I should use on the then satin finish
that my 412CE had (Ken Smith Bass polish), humidity - the whole deal.
That was when folks were bashing Taylor for building fragile guitars that
'required" more care than guitars built by other mfrs based solely on the
fact that each new Taylor came with all those care and feeding docs.

So I didn't make it up or research it on the web or anything half-axxed
like that. I know nothing about woodworking. All I knew at the time was
that I spent $1400 for that Taylor and I was going to follow the advice
of the guy who built 'em.

I used bore oil on my Taylor and that is the only thing I'd use for an
ebony board, but alas none of my guitars have an ebony board now, so it's
Gibbie's Fretboard conditioner for me.

Hey, the shop up the street from me uses Martin Guitar polish to
"condition" finished maple boards, rosewood *and* ebony boards when they
restring a guitar for a customer. I almost yanked that bottle of polish
out of the guy's hand when I saw him applying it to a rosewood board on a
Gibson.

Different strokes - lemon oil for everything - OK. For me and for ebony
boards, I'd use what the woodwind players use for their ebony instruments
- bore oil.

Greg

Greg D

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Aug 7, 2003, 10:50:16 PM8/7/03

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"RA" <use...@freetoys.com> wrote in
news:eyDYa.1282$Pa4....@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com:

Ummm, I had the same problem after using Country Time Lemonade. Maybe I
should compare notes with that other guy.

Greg

>
>
> regards,
> RA
>
>
>

Greg D

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Aug 7, 2003, 10:54:17 PM8/7/03

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mark,

Yes the 155 had the Goldtones. OK, for get everything I said. All bets
off. You'd probably enjoy the SD's.

GReg

Margaret Wilson

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Aug 7, 2003, 11:25:17 PM8/7/03

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See comments within text....

"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:Xns93D0E7A7FE8...@68.1.17.6...

>
> Hey, the shop up the street from me uses Martin Guitar polish to
> "condition" finished maple boards, rosewood *and* ebony boards when they
> restring a guitar for a customer. I almost yanked that bottle of polish
> out of the guy's hand when I saw him applying it to a rosewood board on a
> Gibson.

This is really bad. I happen to like Martin Guitar Polish a lot, but only
for *finished* wood! :-)

> Different strokes - lemon oil for everything - OK. For me and for ebony
> boards, I'd use what the woodwind players use for their ebony instruments
> - bore oil.

Different strokes is right indeed. Apparently there's been a few heated
debates about whether it's necessary to oil a fretboard at all. Personally
I prefer to keep my guitar room at ~50% humidity and only oil a tiny bit
once a year ... or less. Some people believe oiling is not necessary at
all. And then there's a guy on the Carvin bboard who oils every time he
changes strings, every two weeks!

Regards,

Margaret

RA

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Aug 8, 2003, 6:01:13 AM8/8/03

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"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net>

>
> Different strokes - lemon oil for everything - OK. For me and for ebony
> boards, I'd use what the woodwind players use for their ebony instruments
> - bore oil.

Clarinets... (and bagpipes) are actually not made with Ebony.
They are mostly made from African Blackwood. It turns better than Ebony.

regards,
RA

Greg D

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Aug 8, 2003, 6:01:58 AM8/8/03

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Margaret,

> Different strokes is right indeed. Apparently there's been a few
> heated debates about whether it's necessary to oil a fretboard at all.
> Personally I prefer to keep my guitar room at ~50% humidity and only
> oil a tiny bit once a year ... or less. Some people believe oiling is
> not necessary at all. And then there's a guy on the Carvin bboard who
> oils every time he changes strings, every two weeks!

Ha! I had for gotten about that! During our conversation, the guy at Taylor
Guitars actually told me that it really wasn't necessary to condition the
fretboard because it got plenty of "conditioning" from finger oil, but that
if I felt like I *had* to do it (to satisfy myself I suppose), he
recommended bore oil, but no more than once per year. I can't remember
exactly why no more than once per year... may have been something about the
wood swelling.

It's a personal choice, but I'll wager that those of us who do it, do it
way more than once per year :)

Greg

>
> Regards,
>
> Margaret
>
>
>

LarryV

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Aug 8, 2003, 8:33:35 AM8/8/03

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The absolute best stuff I've found for cleaning and maintaining fret
boards is Gerlitz Guitar Honey. I love the stuff. It cleans the gunk
off and doesn't leave an oily feeling on the fret board. You can
inquire about it by sending an email to Harvey Gerlitz from their web
page at http://www.gerlitzamps.com/
They don't have it listed on their site, and it's fairly difficult to
find. However, if you're interested in trying some Margaret, send me
an email and I can send you a bottle.

Rgds, Larry

"Margaret Wilson" <twok...@nospam.msn.com> wrote in message news:<bgv57...@enews3.newsguy.com>...

Margaret Wilson

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Aug 8, 2003, 6:40:53 PM8/8/03

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"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:Xns93D13D5E61B...@68.1.17.6...

>
> Ha! I had for gotten about that! During our conversation, the guy at
Taylor
> Guitars actually told me that it really wasn't necessary to condition the
> fretboard because it got plenty of "conditioning" from finger oil, but
that
> if I felt like I *had* to do it (to satisfy myself I suppose), he
> recommended bore oil, but no more than once per year. I can't remember
> exactly why no more than once per year... may have been something about
the
> wood swelling.

Yes, I think it has to do with the wood swelling and frets coming loose.
Also, too much oil will just make the fretboard oily feeling. Not nice.

Anyway, all this talk of fretboard care made me take a look at the ebony
fretboard on my classical guitar today. Well! I hadn't played it in a
while, and although I knew the strings needed changing, I wasn't prepared
for the bass strings to have turned green! Ewwwww!! So I removed the
strings, cleaned the fretboard and polished the guitar. The back of the
neck has a tung oil finish which had acquired a little gunk too, so I put a
light coat of lemon oil on it and then wiped it off. I could feel the grain
in the neck before I oiled it, but now it's much smoother. I've owned the
guitar for a couple years, and I'd never treated the neck. I guess it was
overdue....

I put on a new set of D'Addario hard tension Composites and for the first
time used the coffee-colored G string instead of the standard nylon G. I
have to say I really like it! Although it's fairly stiff, it's not as fat
as the nylon G, so it was easier to tie at the bridge. I've found that the
Composites last longer, settle into pitch quicker and stay in tune better.

Regards,

Margaret

Brown Stone

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Feb 8, 2024, 9:29:14 AMFeb 8

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Leafedout Vndor

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Feb 14, 2024, 5:18:41 AMFeb 14

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