Why Fender sucks.

[thomas]

Fender offers an extensive line of solid body electrics guitars at every price point, with almost any configuration of wood, pickups, and finish that you could ever want. But they all have narrow fingerboards with 1 5/8" nuts. That's a deal-breaker for me.

WTF Fender? If you can vary all of the other elements of why not this one? Are you secretly putting the same neck on every model?

[Docbop]

From the Fender forum........

Vintage Fenders mostly have 1-5/8" neck widths.

Back in the day there were a few custom choices of neck widths from Fender besides the normal 1-5/8".
Vintage Fender neck width codes
A = 1 1/2" wide at the nut.
B = 1 5/8" wide at the nut (normal size).
C = 1 3/4" wide at the nut.
D = 1 7/8" wide at the nut.
from: http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html

There are a few widths available today depending on model (if you want to pick your own neck width, then go to the Custom Shop). Click on the "specs" tab when looking at guitars in the products section here. You'll see the current nut width specs listed. For example vintage reissues are 1.650”. American Standard is 1.685". So yes, the modern styled Fenders are slightly wider at the nut compared to vintage and reissue Strats.

MIM Standards = 1.650”
Highway 1's = 1.685"
American Deluxe = 1.6875"
MIM Classic Payer = 1.650"
...you get the idea, just click on the "specs" tab.


https://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?p=507687&sid=e41a7cc30bd2b8ce35e642a74e54dac4
I hope that info was useful.

[wereoawl]

"thomas" <drthoma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5d449f86-7c1a-4d50...@googlegroups.com...

What about a TurTLe'D FENDER? Are you familiar with THAT?

[Gerry]

On 2012-09-30 15:31:30 +0000, thomas said:

> Fender offers an extensive line of solid body electrics guitars at
> every price point, with almost any configuration of wood, pickups, and
> finish that you could ever want. But they all have narrow fingerboards
> with 1 5/8" nuts. That's a deal-breaker for me.

As Jonathan was working his way through neck selection, and was
considering such issues with my strat copy, I was pondering the same
issue.

Today a jumbo story in the NYT's on Fender, though it doesn't take up
the issue of a wider neck. It does point out that Bain Romney controls
Guitar Center and that GC is "crucial to Fender". Fender's CEO, Larry
Thomas use to be chief at Guitar Center.

And so forth. Interesting to read of the various aspects of the death
of musicial instrument sales:

http://tinyurl.com/97rpf8a

My favorite passage is this:

"In the 1950s, ’60s and ’70s, electric guitars powered rock and pop.
Today, turntable rigs, drum machines and sampler synthesizers drive
music like hip-hop. Electric guitars, huge as they are, have lost some
of their old magic in this era of Jay-Z, Kanye West and “The Voice.”

"Games like Guitar Hero have helped underpin sales, but teenagers who
once might have hankered after guitars now get by making music on
laptops. It’s worth remembering that the accordion was once the most
popular instrument in America."
--
Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden

[Greger Hoel]

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:31:30 +0200, thomas <drthoma...@gmail.com>
wrote:

There's also the uncomfortable 9 1/2" fretboard radius. The vintage 7.25"
is nice for chords and fretting with the pads rather than the tips of the
fingers, but with 9 1/2" you get the worst of both worlds.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Jonathan]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:31:30 AM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> Fender offers an extensive line of solid body electrics guitars at every price point, with almost any configuration of wood, pickups, and finish that you could ever want. But they all have narrow fingerboards with 1 5/8" nuts. That's a deal-breaker for me.
>
>
>
> WTF Fender? If you can vary all of the other elements of why not this one? Are you secretly putting the same neck on every model?

Aren't most of the Fender necks 1-11/16" these days?
I measured the neck on my 50th Anniversary American Standard Strat from 1996 (the one with the ruined neck that I'm replacing), and that was the measurement.

Here's what the Warmoth site says about the different neck widths available:

1-5/8" (41.27mm)
This is the smallest nut width and considered "Vintage" since most of the guitar makers in the 1950s and 60s used this size. Smaller hands will find this very comfortable as do players who mostly play rhythm.

1-11/16" (42.85mm)
Considered the standard size of the guitar industry for the last 30+ years, 1 11/16 Nut Width allows for what many consider to be the perfect balance between chording and soloing. This is the most popular Nut Width size.

1-3/4" (44.45mm)
For those with slightly larger hands or soloing techniques when a slightly wider string spacing is desirable, this is just the ticket! Some 80s shredder guitar companies used this size along with large frets to create a unique soloing feel. It also may remind you of how an acoustic guitar neck would feel.

1-7/8" (47.62mm) Special Superwide Neck Page
This would be the Grand Daddy of Nut Widths. Giant hands will love this size as would people doing specialized guitar building and adding more strings to the neck. Click on the link above for special information and pricing for this unique offering.

[Gerry]

On 2012-09-30 18:30:30 +0000, Jonathan said:

> 1-3/4" (44.45mm)
> For those with slightly larger hands or soloing techniques when a
> slightly wider string spacing is desirable, this is just the ticket!
> Some 80s shredder guitar companies used this size along with large
> frets to create a unique soloing feel. It also may remind you of how an
> acoustic guitar neck would feel.
> 1-7/8" (47.62mm) Special Superwide Neck Page
> This would be the Grand Daddy of Nut Widths. Giant hands will love this
> size as would people doing specialized guitar building and adding more
> strings to the neck. Click on the link above for special information
> and pricing for this unique offering.

I still don't get how these can be popped into place in the standard
mount without the sides of the channel needing to be expanded.

By the way, since I've know you've done a lot of the homework, I assume
these come with maple fretboards too, right?

[Jonathan]

I haven't been able to find anything on the Warmoth site that indicates that the you have to do anything special to install the 1-7/8" nut on a standard strat.
They call it the "Superwide" neck:

"Superwide necks come with a 1-7/8" nut width and this is about as wide as they can get and still maintain decent string alignment with the pickup pole pieces. These wide necks have a similar feel to an acoustic guitar neck. For those of you with big sausage fingers, the Superwide may be where it's at."

And, yes, they do offer maple fretboards. In fact, they have a dizzying array of exotic woods you can choose from if you like.

By the way, Warmoth has a cool "Neck-builder" app that lets you spec out the available options, and each parameter (neck width, back profile, etc.) has a little help icon you can click that brings up interesting information.
I found it very informative:

http://www.warmoth.com/pages/CustomNeck.aspx

Jonathan

[Gerry]

On 2012-09-30 19:56:40 +0000, Jonathan said:

>> I still don't get how these can be popped into place in the standard
>> mount without the sides of the channel needing to be expanded.
>>

>> By the way, since I know you've done a lot of the homework, I assume

>> these come with maple fretboards too, right?
>

> I haven't been able to find anything on the Warmoth site that indicates
> that the you have to do anything special to install the 1-7/8" nut on a
> standard strat.
> They call it the "Superwide" neck:
>
> "Superwide necks come with a 1-7/8" nut width and this is about as wide
> as they can get and still maintain decent string alignment with the
> pickup pole pieces. These wide necks have a similar feel to an acoustic
> guitar neck. For those of you with big sausage fingers, the Superwide
> may be where it's at."
>
> And, yes, they do offer maple fretboards. In fact, they have a
> dizzying array of exotic woods you can choose from if you like.
>
> By the way, Warmoth has a cool "Neck-builder" app that lets you spec
> out the available options, and each parameter (neck width, back
> profile, etc.) has a little help icon you can click that brings up
> interesting information.
> I found it very informative:
>
> http://www.warmoth.com/pages/CustomNeck.aspx
>
> Jonathan

Thanks

[Klatu Verata Necktie]

I clicked on the link you supplied, went through the neck design process, and was struck by how expensive it is to buy a replacement neck. A "Modern Vintage" neck without any special features came to over $350. This did not include tuners.

I always thought that Warmoth was the place to go to find inexpensive substitutes for American Fenders, but as it turns out, they are a premium builder that trades on custom features.

[Nate Najar]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:31:30 AM UTC-4, thomas wrote:

> Fender offers an extensive line of solid body electrics guitars at every price point, with almost any configuration of wood, pickups, and finish that you could ever want. But they all have narrow fingerboards with 1 5/8" nuts. That's a deal-breaker for me.
>
>
>
> WTF Fender? If you can vary all of the other elements of why not this one? Are you secretly putting the same neck on every model?

fender came about as a cheap guitar. Just because some are expensive cash wise doesn't negate the fact that a fender guitar is a cheap guitar. it is what it is. you want something else, you have to get something else. if you want a fender, for what it does, get a fender.

N

[Patrick Powers]

The Fender Stratocaster: part coffee table, part space ship.

[dunlop212]

There are many factors besides nut width. One obvious one is string spacing; vintage guitars tend to have the E strings closer to the edge.

The last time I checked, USACG was the best place to get a neck; cheaper with more options than warmoth.

[gdog...@gmail.com]

SO YOU have nothing to say wxcept som e "Straw MAN" made something up "hypothetically" so it is true yet you have ZERO proof. So what YOU are sying is that you are an ignorant leftist douchebag like out President, correct?

[gdog...@gmail.com]

oh jeez, that's so sweet, wants me to shed a tear

[Gerry]

On 2015-04-11 02:34:22 +0000, gdog...@gmail.com said:

> SO YOU have nothing to say wxcept som e "Straw MAN" made something up
> "hypothetically" so it is true yet you have ZERO proof.

U're syntacks am gogly is. I quoted a newspaper article. I am not the article.

> So what YOU are sying is that you are an ignorant leftist douchebag
> like out President, correct?

Ues, tht'as arksackly hart I'n am sying. We shld oll by so lukky!
Wlcome to my shlitcan.

[Gerry]

On 2015-04-11 02:35:22 +0000, gdog...@gmail.com said:

> oh jeez, that's so sweet, wants me to shed a tear

Flka park lately to.

[Tim McNamara]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 19:34:22 -0700 (PDT), gdog...@gmail.com
<gdog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> SO YOU have nothing to say wxcept som e "Straw MAN" made something up
> "hypothetically" so it is true yet you have ZERO proof. So what YOU
> are sying is that you are an ignorant leftist douchebag like out
> President, correct?

Well, that was a nice excursion into insanity. Perhaps you should look
into some different meds, the ones you have aren't working.

[Nil]

On 11 Apr 2015, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in
rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz:

Or maybe they ARE working.

[Tim McNamara]

Ummm... >8^O

[Gerry]

On 2012-09-30 15:31:30 +0000, thomas said:

> Fender offers an extensive line of solid body electrics guitars at
> every price point, with almost any configuration of wood, pickups, and
> finish that you could ever want. But they all have narrow fingerboards
> with 1 5/8" nuts. That's a deal-breaker for me.

I hate to stray from the exciting topic of "who's nuts this week", but
what is your preferred width, Thomas?

[thomas]

I am okay with 1 11/16. I would probably prefer something wider, because of fingerstyle picking, but am too cheap to pay for a custom neck just to find out.

[Gerry]

I use to have a first-year SG (Which said "Les Paul"), and it had the
widest neck I'd ever played. I don't know what that neck width was,
but it seemed just shy of classical width. I really got comforable
with that one.

[Joey Goldstein]

Most Fender USA necks are 1-11/16.
It's only the vintage spec necks that are 1-5/8.

--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://music.cbc.ca/#/artists/Joey-Goldstein>
<http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JoeyGoldstein>
<https://www.facebook.com/JoeyGoldsteinMusic>

[Tim McNamara]

I put a 1 3/4" Warmoth neck on my Tele. The neck cost more than the
whole guitar did when I bought it new! However, the neck is abslutely
outstanding. I did have to have the nut recut slightly as the slots
were too high. The fretwork was excellent right out of the box; I had
them finish it as well and the finish (nitro with a vintage tint) was
perfect. Maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, compound radius, wide nut-
great playing guitar and way better than the slightly-less-than 1 5/8
that came stock.

[Tim]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Gerry]

> Sounds reasonable to me.

Toyota came about as a cheap alternative to American-mad cars but they
always had pretty significant quality.

So there's "cheap" and then there's "inexpensive". Really cheap is a
guitar that comes new with screwed up fret work, poorly placed bridge
and that kind of stuff. Most of the people who are Telecaster devotees
think they hung the moon, but some like to jerk around with the
pickups. Artist models run from $1.5k to $6 and the lower end manages
to get down to $800. Stratocasters are in the same category. No
longer inexpensive to my thinking, and, of those I've played, not
"cheap" in construction.

For cheap, these days, I guess you need to go for Squier and Hyundai.

[Tim McNamara]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:33:26 -0700, Gerry <add...@domain.com> wrote:
>
> For cheap, these days, I guess you need to go for Squier and Hyundai.

Even Hyundai ain't all that cheap. My Tele, however, is a Squier
Affinity and therein hangs a tale.

After discovering Ed Bickert I decided to try a Tele. Not wanting to
spend a lot of money on something I might not like, I bought the
Affinity for $180 (I had to look at a half dozen of them in two stores
to find one that was playable). I tried it, I liked it but the neck was
too narrow at the nut- less than 1 5/8". So I bought a Warmoth neck
with a 1 3/4" nut. That cost twice what the guitar originally cost.
Then because the hum was bugging me, I put in Dimarzio Area T pickups-
very nice for jazz, BTW. And while I was doing that it only made sense
to shield the cavities and pickguard, replace the pots, caps and jack...

So the upgrades cost three times as much as the guitar and all that's
left of the original instrument is the body, pickguard and bridge!

Cheap ain't always cheap. Although it did actually sound pretty good
box-stock, once I put on .012s, it is a really nice instrument to play
and sounds very good. It's a keeper.

[tsol...@gmail.com]

just remember that Gibson is garbage

[Gerry]

On 2015-12-29 16:17:54 +0000, tsol...@gmail.com said:

> just remember that Gibson is garbage

I've forgotten it already.

[jimmybruno]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 11:31:30 AM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> Fender offers an extensive line of solid body electrics guitars at every price point, with almost any configuration of wood, pickups, and finish that you could ever want. But they all have narrow fingerboards with 1 5/8" nuts. That's a deal-breaker for me.
>
> WTF Fender? If you can vary all of the other elements of why not this one? Are you secretly putting the same neck on every model?

Not if you look for a good one. It's too bad that guitar center knows nothing about how to set up an archtop

[clevelandjazz]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 11:31:30 AM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> Fender offers an extensive line of solid body electrics guitars at every price point, with almost any configuration of wood, pickups, and finish that you could ever want. But they all have narrow fingerboards with 1 5/8" nuts. That's a deal-breaker for me.
>
> WTF Fender? If you can vary all of the other elements of why not this one? Are you secretly putting the same neck on every model?

that's just untrue. They offer 1 11/16 on many models

[rpjazzguitar]

Hijack:

The Fender nutwidth doesn't bother me, but I'm not crazy about the small radius. It's about 9, and I like about 12. Makes a difference.

My favorite neck these days is my Yamaha Pacifica cheapie. Small in every dimension. Comfortable for old hands.