Guitar Finishes ... 'Sunburst' is UGLY!
freetoys
design on guitars.. but I suspect it was originally developed, to
conceal damage done to the wood when routering for the bindings?
The 'Sunburst' design allowed them to hide the defects while still
displaying some of the wood grain.
What puzzles me is why this ever caught on with consumers, which it
seems to have done? I can understand wanting a painted guitar, if
you're not as much of a wood freak as I am.. but the 'Sunburst' just
looks so ugly to me.
Any thoughts on this?
regards,
RA
http://freetoys.com
Max Leggett
I think a good sunburst is lovely, but you're right - on cheap guitars
it's an easy cover for poor wood. The early Gibson sunbursts were
great, though, and I guess that's why it caught on - some top of the
line guitars had bursts, so it developed a cachet.
IvanDRodriguez
like the burst design. I have a cheapy Ibanez AF120 thats a burst.....but then
we arent talking true tops on these. I love it, but I'm sure there are some
hidden blemishes in it somewhere.
While I love the natural finish, which is harder to hide those blems, I just
can't see having all blonde guitars.....variety is the spice of life....:)
Ivan
Ken Lloyd
How many?
Could be fun to see who owns what.
Me first: Heritage 555. American Strat. Martin Acoustic. Fender precision
bass.
Ivan?
"IvanDRodriguez" <ivandro...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030323183616...@mb-ma.aol.com...
Max Leggett
wrote:
>Your post makes one wonder just how many guitars you have.
>
>How many?
>
>Could be fun to see who owns what.
>Me first: Heritage 555. American Strat. Martin Acoustic. Fender precision
>bass.
My first was a Harmony archtop [disremember the model number] with a
burst. Bought in '63 for $50. Nice little axe for the money. Currently
an Epi JP, blonde cuz I'm a gentleman. Currently have the hots for an
Ibanez GD with a burst.
Adam Gottschalk
ivandro...@aol.com (IvanDRodriguez) wrote:
> I just
> can't see having all blonde guitars.....variety is the spice of life....:)
Agreed on variety. But that's one of the things that's great about wood
(as absurd a general statement as that is)--there must be nearly as many
types of wood, and certainly more unique pieces, than there are varied
desires as far as guitar looks go.
Mahogany, walnut, maple, cherry, paulownia, ash, alder, koa,
purpleheart, rosewood, spruce, etc. etc. It seems that there have been
certain woods which have been the standard for some time (e.g. rosewood
back and sides with a spruce top) which has led to a similar look for
many standard guitars. Builders these days are experimenting more maybe
than they used to with other woods, partly because the standards are
reaching the endangered (and expensive) list. I got a solid-body with a
figured walnut top not long ago, oil finish--wow the thing is cool
looking. And some still say blondes have more fun...
The thing I've disliked about burst finishes is this: on the top of the
guitar, and with a black headstock, I think it's all right. It's when
the finish is applied to the back and the back of the neck and the
headstock that it starts to look especially weird IMO.
Max Leggett
wrote:
>My first was a Harmony archtop [disremember the model number] with a
Just looked it up on the web. It was an Archtone. I remember nagging
my parents for well over a year. They tried to buy me off with a
ukelele, the cheap gits, on which I learned Washington Square on one
string. Finally talked them into a guitar; we went to a music store on
Yonge Street [Yonge was music stores top to bottom in those days] and
the salesman recommended the Harmony as being good value for the
money. He handed it to me to play, and I played way wrong chords to
Puff the Magic Dragon. You never forget the first one.
IvanDRodriguez
years > I had 7.
Sold stuff :
Brown Sunburst Ibanez AF207
Blonde Fender D'A Standard
Vantage 455 < 335 copy > brown finish
Blonde Epi Chet Atkins Standard
Current guitars:
ASB Ibanez AF120
Blonde Guild Artist AA
Little darker blonde Takamine EAN60c nylon.
My next victim is going to be one of those single pickup non cutaways, but not
sure from who, or when, or even how....but that never stopped me before.....LOL
Ivan
Ken Lloyd
Question on the Takemine nylon.
Does it have pickups or any electronics?
I'm looking for a good-sounding nylon string (stage use; must work in medium
volume situations) to play bossa chords and latin chords on.
Thoughts or recommendations?
By the way, I met a guy a few weeks ago who said,
"I never met a guitar I didn't want to own".
Ken
"IvanDRodriguez" <ivandro...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030323193344...@mb-ma.aol.com...
IvanDRodriguez
let looks fool ya. Recently I saw a beautifull Heritage Eagle hangin on the
rack at the local store. I couldn't take my eyes off of it. Then I played it.
I'm sure that's not the norm for Heritage, but this one was very disappointing.
The Takamine does indeed have electronics. It's got one of those piezo pickups
in the bridge, a volume control with Bass, Mid and Treble, and something called
an Exciter. This gives a boost to the previous three, from wherever they are
set at, so you still get the balance you dialed in on the B,M and T, only a
little louder.
This is JMO , but I love the way this guitar sounds, both unplugged and
plugged.
Acoustically, it sings and has great sustain. Most likely due to the 3 1/2"
body. If all you did was mic'd it through a PA, it would do fine I think. If
you are looking for a classic bossa sound, this one has it easy, you'll have to
provide your own "feel" though.....LOL.
I never really owned a nylon before this one. I lucked up and got a good one
first time out.
Because my hands are small, the standard classical neck width is sometimes
uncomfortable for me, but I'm getting use to it.
Ivan
Ken Lloyd
Thanks for the additional info.
Funny you should mention nut width.
I've been hoping to find a nylon string axe with electronics AND pretty much
the same width and scale of my main axe, the Heritage 555. Godin has a
nylon axe called slim, which has the same nut width as most electrics.
Since I don't live in a big city, it's hard to find a music store with
enough inventory to really check out lots of models to make a good choice.
Your info helps in the search.
Ken
"IvanDRodriguez" <ivandro...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030323202759...@mb-ma.aol.com...
Jay Carlson
"Ken Lloyd" <kll...@maine.com> wrote in message
news:YJtfa.20119$e8.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Ivan.
>
> Thanks for the additional info.
> Funny you should mention nut width.
> I've been hoping to find a nylon string axe with electronics AND pretty
much
> the same width and scale of my main axe, the Heritage 555. Godin has a
> nylon axe called slim, which has the same nut width as most electrics.
>
> Since I don't live in a big city, it's hard to find a music store with
> enough inventory to really check out lots of models to make a good choice.
> Your info helps in the search.
>
> Ken
Steve Holst is making such an instrument. http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/
The last one just went to a friend of mine, Chris Robbert, here in the
Virgin Islands. It is a great sounding, feeling guitar. A nylon, (with
electronics), made for jazzers. Similar innovations to the classical
designs of Humphrey/ (Martin Millenium). Better price and less of a waiting
period, but still almost a year. I'll be getting one 'soon' myself...
Willie K.Yee, M.D.
wrote:
>I agree that SB finishes can serve to hide defects in the wood, but I happen to
>like the burst design.
Carlo Greco says that EVERY factory made guitar in sunburst has a flaw
in it. If the wood was perfect, they would use it for the blonde
guitars.
--
Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
LarryV
be quite beautiful. And as a matter of fact, some manufacturers charge
a premium for a sunburst finish due to the additional labor required.
"Ken Lloyd" <kll...@maine.com> wrote in message news:<MPrfa.20069$e8....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
freetoys
I've recently gotten back into guitars after a very long absence.
I've now got a DeArmond X-135 (natural, of course)
I've also got a Samick Dreadnought with a Nato (Mahogany) top
and a couple of old Kay archtops that I'm sanding down, refinishing
and customing a bit.
I'm curious to see how a bridge made of solid Lignum Vitae
will improve the sound. I'll fashion it so that the grain runs
directly from the strings to the soundboard and give it a small
'footprint', so less sound is diffused.
Lignum Vitae is an exotic wood that is extremely dense. (it won't
float)
It's also unusual in that it contains a lot of oil.
(sound travels good in liquid)
The oil makes it nice to work with. It drills and turns
beautifully, compared to something like African Leadwood,
which is like working with granite.
The U.S. Navy actually used Lignum Vitae to make prop bearings for
large ships, including nuclear submarines! It's also used in the
bearings for hydro-electric generators (including some that are over
100 years old)
I have a pick that I made with Lignum Vitae and it gives a nice rich
sound when picking, while still sounding bright when strumming. It
seems indestructable, so far. I'm thinking of selling some on eBay.
Anyone else ever fooled around with this wood?
IvanDRodriguez
Ivan
Ken Lloyd
Nice looking line of instruments. I like the looks of the K250 model.
(plus, I'm your basic semi-hollow kind of guy)
I probably don't have the chops to deserve a custom made instrument, and
also don't have the bucks. Still, it's great to see someone making guitars
to suit the needs of people with professional preferences.
Gook luck with your new Holst. Let us know what you think.
Ken
"Jay Carlson" <j...@viaccess.net> wrote in message
news:v7sqn0q...@corp.supernews.com...
Jeremey Poparad
have sunburts bodies, rosewood necks, and tortoise shell pickgaurds on my
fenders and plack pickguards on my gibson. I'm looking at picking up a
Guild 6 and 12 string acoustics in the next year or so which I also will get
in sunburst.
No... seriously, I'm not obsessive compulsive, really! Hmm... my keyboard
is crooked here... that's better. Wait, no... I mean, there! More crooked,
that's better... better.. .bet....ah!!! No!
"freetoys" <goo...@freetoys.com> wrote in message
news:7f1ed51b.03032...@posting.google.com...
thomas
more space to vibrate in. If you put them too close together
you will run into accidental damping problems.
"Ken Lloyd" <kll...@maine.com> wrote in message news:<YJtfa.20119$e8.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
foldedpath
> Wow.
>
> Nice looking line of instruments. I like the looks of the K250 model.
> (plus, I'm your basic semi-hollow kind of guy)
>
> I probably don't have the chops to deserve a custom made instrument,
> and also don't have the bucks. Still, it's great to see someone making
> guitars to suit the needs of people with professional preferences.
>
> Gook luck with your new Holst. Let us know what you think.
Speaking of Steve Holst K250's and sunbursts....
I just took delivery of my new "cello burst" K250 last week. Here's a
photo, shot before he wired up the RMC pickup jack (which is why you see
a wire bundle hanging out of the F-hole):
http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/k250mb.htm
I'm in love. It sounds great, very responsive, very woody. The thinline
body and bracing (two long braces that couple the carved top to the
carved back, and support the Tune-O-Matic bridge) keeps down the
feedback, without being as heavy-handed as a solid block under the top.
The sound is great, and the neck is to die for. It's 1 7/8" wide at the
nut (I like wider necks for fingerstyle).
The magnetic pickup is wired to a 1/4" endpin jack at the tailpiece, and
the RMC DIN-13 jack is in the lower side of the guitar (not shown in
this photo).
Steve is a great guy to work with on a custom order. Highly recommended.
Get to him before you have to wait 5 years.
Mike Barrs
--
Mike Barrs
Jon Fox
finish!! I'm playing a natural D'Angelico NYL-2 these days, and it's a
beautiful piece of wood IMO, but I do sometimes miss my 'burst ES-175 (not
nearly as nice as Mr. Singer's, but it was also a CC model, from 1978)
Jon
--
"foldedpath" <mba...@NOSPAM.nightviewer.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9348CC0745E6Amb...@216.168.3.44...
Greg D
news:Xns9348CC0745E6Amb...@216.168.3.44:
> Speaking of Steve Holst K250's and sunbursts....
>
> I just took delivery of my new "cello burst" K250 last week. Here's a
> photo, shot before he wired up the RMC pickup jack (which is why you see
> a wire bundle hanging out of the F-hole):
>
> http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/k250mb.htm
>
> I'm in love. It sounds great, very responsive, very woody. The thinline
> body and bracing (two long braces that couple the carved top to the
> carved back, and support the Tune-O-Matic bridge) keeps down the
> feedback, without being as heavy-handed as a solid block under the top.
> The sound is great, and the neck is to die for. It's 1 7/8" wide at the
> nut (I like wider necks for fingerstyle).
>
> The magnetic pickup is wired to a 1/4" endpin jack at the tailpiece, and
> the RMC DIN-13 jack is in the lower side of the guitar (not shown in
> this photo).
>
> Steve is a great guy to work with on a custom order. Highly recommended.
> Get to him before you have to wait 5 years.
>
> Mike Barrs
>
>
Wow, she's a beaut!
Greg
Kevin Van Sant
(Willie K.Yee, M.D.) wrote in message
<3e7e6b42...@nntp.bestweb.net> :
>On 23 Mar 2003 23:36:16 GMT, ivandro...@aol.com (IvanDRodriguez)
>wrote:
>
>>I agree that SB finishes can serve to hide defects in the wood, but I happen to
>>like the burst design.
>
>Carlo Greco says that EVERY factory made guitar in sunburst has a flaw
>in it. If the wood was perfect, they would use it for the blonde
>guitars.
I guess it depends on what you consider to be a flaw. There are a
lot of sunburst instruments which are not opaque at all and you can
still see all of the wood. Mine is that way as a matter of fact. Or
at least the top and back are translucent not opaque around the outer,
darker ranges of the sunburst. I don't see anything at all that could
be regarded a flaw. In fact, before buying my sunburst L5, I bought a
blonde one (both new Wes models), the wood on my sunburst is more
striking than the wood on the blonde was.
Anyway, it's fine if the original poster doesn't like sunbursts, it's
just like saying I don't like yellow cars or something. It's in the
eye of the beholder. Me, I love the look of a sunburst guitar,
especially one that isn't too dark. That's why I sent the blonde L5
back and got the SB instead. Some other people obviously will feel
differently, but to me a sunburst L5 type of guitar is what a jazz
guitar should look like.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
D.Onstenk
Clint Eastwood in "Dirty Harry."
My students love this one. It sure puts human interaction - and certainly
newgroup communication - into perspective.
#####
Ted Blankenship
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4000847&a=30231314&f=0
Jay Wolfe
sunburst guitars. I opened a case yesterday- new arrival from
Heritage, and actually gasped at the beauty of the tobacco burst solid
body. Whoever buys that beauty will own a gorgeous guitar indeed.
Here's a few observations about this subject, for those interested:
* Makers that charge more for blonde (natural) finishes, "generally
pay (a little) more for wood that is clear, or mostly clear of normal
mineral traces (streaks), pin knots & other color glitches that occur
naturally in wood. I personally don't think of these things as
"flaws", but rather all part of the natural beauty of wood. Others
will feel differently.
* Often, makers use whatever wood is handy at the time, so there are
many examples that are at variance with the above.
* It requires more work, effort & perhaps skill to make a really nice
sunburst finish. Should cost the same as a blonde (?). Some say the
additional stain required, makes a blonde guitar sound better.
Hogwash........many examples prove this wrong.*
* Gibson came up with the "Wine Red" finish to help them use up all
the steaky wood that is routinely rejected.That color hides min.
streaks very well. They charged much less for these guitars to help
them sell. Heritage introduced Wine Red at the Jan. trade show. I
didn't order any, as they've put that color on their "option" list. I
suggested (tonque in cheek) that they charge "less" for it. Pretty
color BTW.
* None of this has anything to do with "tone" nor any aspect of the
guitar's performance. I recall many instances when one of the guys at
Heritage called me & said that they were making a guitar for me with a
blonde color spec, and that they felt this particular guitar would
fare better with a darker sunburst finish. Nice of them to call & give
me a choice.
* I often get much flamier woods, sans the usual upcharge, with a SB
finish guitar, especially the darker shades, because it affords
Heritage an opportunity to use some wood that has nice curl, but some
minor min. trace. I like that.
Jay Wolfe www.wolfeguitars.com
"Shock & Awe".......... reminds me of my wedding night
Jay Vyas
> differently, but to me a sunburst L5 type of guitar is what a jazz
> guitar should look like.
>
Amen.
-- Jay
(Even though my personal fetish is for natural/blond/amber archtops, I
agree with Kevin all the way!)
Don & Heidi
"Max Leggett" <mleg...@nospam.ca> wrote in message
news:3e7e4a16....@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
I had one of those Harmony's with the red and black burst. I still have a
Harmony Archtop, a yellowish and brown burst. Woof.
Others... Epiphone Sheraton, Gibson SG Pro, which is
like a special but with P-90's and a Bigsby, a Suzuki
classical, a no name '30's guitar I use for blues in D
tuning, a Hohner HW660, a nice cheap guitar that I play
with a bunch of guys that have Taylors and it holds its
own quite nicely. I do have a Baby Taylor that's nice for
fingerpicking in the house, but I bought it for my 5 year old daughter.
And I've got a Samick LaSalle JZ-4 coming within a week.I'm
looking forward to it, will report back to the real world within a
week with my thoughts.
dj
Norman Webb
Just one more.
Ken Lloyd <kll...@maine.com> wrote in message
news:MPrfa.20069$e8....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Max Leggett
<tek...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>How many guitars does a guitarist need??
>
>Just one more.
The Duchess of Windsor one stated that a lady could neither be too
rich not too beautiful. The corrolary, of course, is that a gentleman
can never have too many guitars.