Kurt Rosenwinkel - Intuit
Joey Goldstein
Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
I like his sound too.
Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using flat-wounds.
--
Regards:
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://webhome.idirect.com/~joegold
Email: <joegold AT idirect DOT com>
Mark Garvin
>Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
>Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
Yeah, great playing with one (ahem) 'unusual' vocal tune in the
middle of it.
>I like his sound too.
Yep.
>Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
>I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
>String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using flat-wounds.
I'm pretty sure it's a stock Sheraton. I was at Rudy's music on 48th,
checking out Sheratons and Rudy said "Kurt Rosenwinkel just picked up
one of these. Traded in a Gibson." (I think it was a white 335).
Kurt was indeed playing an Epi Sheraton when I saw him a few weeks
later (Village Vanguard with Mark Turner). Great sound. Not sure
about string gauges. I'll ask him next time.
This was after Intuit was out, tho'. Maybe a 335 on that CD. He
also sounds great on Chris Potter's CD. And Chris is one of the
better sax players around now. Definitely worth a listen.
MG
Keith Ganz
>
>Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
>Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
Check out "Enemies of Energy" to hear Kurt playing HIS music. A desert
island album for me.
>I like his sound too.
>Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
>I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
>String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using flat-wounds.
Sounds like really heavy strings and a very thick pick to me.
Keith Ganz
_____________________________________________________
Sound clips and info at http://www.mindspring.com/~mushmouth
Joey Goldstein
Keith Ganz wrote:
>
> Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
> >Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
>
> Check out "Enemies of Energy" to hear Kurt playing HIS music. A desert
> island album for me.
I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
cold. I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
I'm trying to check out some of the newer guys who are coming up.
I keep hearing about Ben Monder too. What's a good Ben Monder record?
I'd also like to check out some Wolfgang Muthspiel.
Meanwhile I bought that Rosenwinkel CD second hand via Amazon.com. Only
cost me 8 bucks. But the guy didn't include the liner notes. What a drag.
> >I like his sound too.
> >Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
> >I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
> >String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using flat-wounds.
>
> Sounds like really heavy strings and a very thick pick to me.
>
> Keith Ganz
> _____________________________________________________
> Sound clips and info at http://www.mindspring.com/~mushmouth
--
Mark Garvin
>In <398609D6...@nowhere.net> Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> writes:
>>I like his sound too.
>Yep.
>>Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
>>I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
>>String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using flat-wounds.
>I'm pretty sure it's a stock Sheraton. I was at Rudy's music on 48th,
>checking out Sheratons and Rudy said "Kurt Rosenwinkel just picked up
>one of these. Traded in a Gibson." (I think it was a white 335).
>Kurt was indeed playing an Epi Sheraton when I saw him a few weeks
>later (Village Vanguard with Mark Turner). Great sound. Not sure
>about string gauges. I'll ask him next time.
>This was after Intuit was out, tho'. Maybe a 335 on that CD. He
>also sounds great on Chris Potter's CD. And Chris is one of the
>better sax players around now. Definitely worth a listen.
>MG
>>Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
>>Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
>Yeah, great playing with one (ahem) 'unusual' vocal tune in the
>middle of it.
Oops...correction. That tune is on 'Enemies of Energy'.
MG
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message <398642D4...@nowhere.net> :
>> Check out "Enemies of Energy" to hear Kurt playing HIS music. A desert
>> island album for me.
>
>I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
>the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
>cold. I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
>and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
I think that chronologicaly speaking the newer release (Enemies..) is
the older session. I really like both CDs myself.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
www.mindspring.com/~jazure/music.html - to buy my CDs and listen to J'Azure
www.onestopjazz.com - for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant - for jazz guitar samples and info
Robby
Jerry
website. I think he says what pick and strings Kurt uses. They were .13
roundwounds I think.
E.S.
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:398642D4...@nowhere.net...
>
>
> Keith Ganz wrote:
> >
> > Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
> > >Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
> >
> > Check out "Enemies of Energy" to hear Kurt playing HIS music. A desert
> > island album for me.
>
> I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
> the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
> cold. I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
> and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
>
> I'm trying to check out some of the newer guys who are coming up.
>
> I keep hearing about Ben Monder too. What's a good Ben Monder record?
>
> I'd also like to check out some Wolfgang Muthspiel.
>
> Meanwhile I bought that Rosenwinkel CD second hand via Amazon.com. Only
> cost me 8 bucks. But the guy didn't include the liner notes. What a drag.
>
> > >I like his sound too.
> > >Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
> > >I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
> > >String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using
flat-wounds.
> >
Timo Kloeckner
> >middle of it.
You don't like the vocal on the fifth track of Enemies of Energy?
OK, I agree that it is a unusal vocal, but this song is so melancholic...
I love it most.
Timo
P.S.: By the way, does Kurt Rosenwinkel use a chorus on the Enemies of
Energy?
Timo Kloeckner
Does he use a compressor, too.
The fast pickings sound a kind of Mike Stern (when he's playing
clean)
Timo
Michael Vochezer
Here's the interview.
Michael
Jerry schrieb:
Jack A. Zucker
--
--
Jack A. Zucker
E-Mail: j...@jackzucker.com
Web : http://www.jackzucker.com
"Timo Kloeckner" <timo.kl...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:8m6183$dha$11$1...@news.t-online.com...
Joey Goldstein
Enemies seems to be a lot easier to find so I thought it was the latest release.
Kevin Van Sant wrote:
>
> On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 03:24:05 GMT, Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net>
> wrote in message <398642D4...@nowhere.net> :
>
> >> Check out "Enemies of Energy" to hear Kurt playing HIS music. A desert
> >> island album for me.
> >
> >I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
> >the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
> >cold. I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
> >and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
>
> I think that chronologicaly speaking the newer release (Enemies..) is
> the older session. I really like both CDs myself.
>
> _________________________________________
> Kevin Van Sant
> jazz guitar
>
> www.mindspring.com/~jazure/music.html - to buy my CDs and listen to J'Azure
> www.onestopjazz.com - for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
> www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant - for jazz guitar samples and info
--
Joey Goldstein
Jerry wrote:
>
> A European guitarist whose name I forget has an interview with Kurt on his
> website. I think he says what pick and strings Kurt uses. They were .13
> roundwounds I think.
Ouch. I just put .012s on my Riviera. Been using .011s for a few years
though. Most of my life I've used .010s.
I guess part of the commitment of being a jazz guitar player is to use
heavy heavier and heavier strings. I guess eventually I'll a .022 on my
high E and a .090 on the bottom. <g>
> E.S.
> "Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:398642D4...@nowhere.net...
> >
> >
> > Keith Ganz wrote:
> > >
> > > Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
> > > >Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
> > >
> > > Check out "Enemies of Energy" to hear Kurt playing HIS music. A desert
> > > island album for me.
> >
> > I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
> > the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
> > cold. I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
> > and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
> >
> > I'm trying to check out some of the newer guys who are coming up.
> >
> > I keep hearing about Ben Monder too. What's a good Ben Monder record?
> >
> > I'd also like to check out some Wolfgang Muthspiel.
> >
> > Meanwhile I bought that Rosenwinkel CD second hand via Amazon.com. Only
> > cost me 8 bucks. But the guy didn't include the liner notes. What a drag.
> >
> > > >I like his sound too.
> > > >Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
> > > >I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
> > > >String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using
> flat-wounds.
> > >
> > > Sounds like really heavy strings and a very thick pick to me.
> > >
> > > Keith Ganz
> > > _____________________________________________________
> > > Sound clips and info at http://www.mindspring.com/~mushmouth
> >
jimmyb
Can you email with your address ji...@jimmybruno.com
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:3986C7D2...@nowhere.net...
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message <3986C6C2...@nowhere.net> :
>Really?
>
>Enemies seems to be a lot easier to find so I thought it was the latest release.
>
Right, it is. As I said... it is the newest release, but the older of
the two recording sessions. Evidently he couldn't get any label
support for the Enemies project when it was recorded (in 1996 I
think). I guess his growing reputation in the last couple of years
persuaded Verve to finally give it the green light. Meanwhile in 1998
he recorded Intuit for Criss Cross, a label which always seems more
concerned about the music than about reputations
Joey Goldstein
Robby wrote:
>
> So what, praytell, are "triad pairs" (besides just pairs of triads)?
Well a few weeks ago I posted some jpegs at my website to show how I was
using economy picking on a position style fingering (Pos V actually) for
the triad pair of Ebmaj and Fmaj. Maybe you saw them. They're not there anymore.
Simply put, a pair of triads can be used as a musically rewarding
limited texture. Instead of conceptualizing a 7 or 8 note chord-scale as
the reservoir for melodic invention you limit yourself to the 6 notes
found in a pair of triads, triads with no common tones that is.
The triad pair Eb & F works really well over:
F7 or F7sus4, Cm7, A7alt, Ebmaj7, Eb7, Bmaj7#5, B7 (as subV7), etc.
My teacher, Charlie Banacos, has me practicing 4 inversion patterns per
triad pair as a technical beginning to familiarize myself with the
technical issues involved.
1. Up both triads.
Root pos 1st inv. 2nd inv
Eb G Bb, F A C, G Bb Eb, A C F, Bb Eb G, C F A, Eb
Backwards
Root pos 2nd inv 1st inv Root pos
Eb G Bb, C F A, Bb Eb G, A C F, G Bb Eb, F A C, Eb
2. Down both triads.
Bb G Eb, C A F, Eb Bb G, F C A, G Eb Bb, A F C, Bb
Backwards
Bb G Eb, A F C, G Bb Eb, F C A, Eb Bb G, C A F, Bb
3. Up Eb down F.
Eb G Bb, C A F, G Bb Eb, F C A, Bb Eb G, A F C, Eb
Backwards
E G Bb, A F C, Bb Eb G, F C A, G Bb Eb, C A F, Eb
4. Down Eb up F.
Bb G Eb, F A C, Eb Bb G, A C F, etc. ...... Bb
Backwards
Bb G Eb, C F A, G Eb Bb, etc. ...... Bb
I've also been experimenting with spread voicing arpeggios of the triads.
Eb up to Bb up to G up to A down to C down to F up to G up to Eb up to
Bb, etc.
There are a zillion possibilities for fingerings of these simple
patterns. My goal is become familiar with all the possible fingering
snafus that I might encounter so that I can play these things really
fast. They sound really cool played fast.
I've been working out fingerings for these things across the entire
fretboard over the entire range of the guitar as well as in each
individual position. It's a LOT of work but my technical command of all
aspects of guitar playing (left hand, right hand, brain) is improving immensely.
The idea is also to get comfortable with the hexatonic (6 note) scale
that is created by the two triad's tones and to learn to improvise off
the scale while still retaining the feeling of the alternating triad
pairs in your lines. In this case the scale is:
Eb F G A Bb C Eb
On F7 that's like an F Mixolydian scale without the 6th degree.
On Eb7 that's like an Eb Lydian b7 scale without the 7th degree.
In the long run I find it's easier to think about the triad pair as an
individual entity in its own right rather than as a subset of a more
familiar scale.
Other triad pairs Charlie's had me working on are:
Cm & Dm over:
Ebmaj7, Cm7, F7, B7alt, etc.
Dm & Ebmaj over:
Cm7, Ebmaj7, etc.
Eb+ & Fmaj over:
F7, B7alt, etc.
Adim & Bdim over:
Cm(maj7), B7alt, F7b9, etc.
Bdim & Cm over:
D7sus4b9, Am7b5, Cm(maj7), etc.
In theory any two triads that have no common tones can be used in this manner.
C & Db, C & B, C & D, C & Bb, C & Gb
Cm & Dbm, Cm & Bm, Cm & Dm, Cm & Bbm, Cm & Em, Cm & Am, Cm & Gbm
etc., etc., etc.
Walter Weiskopf has written a book for Aebersold called Intervallic
Improvisation or something like that. It is all triad pairs but he has a
slightly different slant on things compared to Charlie.
Joey Goldstein
Kevin Van Sant wrote:
>
> On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 12:46:59 GMT, Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net>
> wrote in message <3986C6C2...@nowhere.net> :
>
> >Really?
> >
> >Enemies seems to be a lot easier to find so I thought it was the latest release.
> >
>
> Right, it is. As I said... it is the newest release, but the older of
> the two recording sessions.
Ah. Interesting. Thanks Kevin.
> Evidently he couldn't get any label
> support for the Enemies project when it was recorded (in 1996 I
> think). I guess his growing reputation in the last couple of years
> persuaded Verve to finally give it the green light. Meanwhile in 1998
> he recorded Intuit for Criss Cross, a label which always seems more
> concerned about the music than about reputations
>
> _________________________________________
> Kevin Van Sant
> jazz guitar
>
> www.mindspring.com/~jazure/music.html - to buy my CDs and listen to J'Azure
> www.onestopjazz.com - for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
> www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant - for jazz guitar samples and info
--
Keith Ganz
>I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
>the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
>cold.
The writing is my favorite thing about the album. Some of the most
personal, natural, creative, pure and hauntingly melodic jazz writing
I've ever heard. And the arrangements, the use of different sounds and
textures, and the way the band plays the music reflect such a strong,
focused and unique vision thoughout every nuance. This album really
stands out to me as a new piece of music as opposed to the same old
modern jazz formula which keeps being done over and over where the
only point is just the blowing.
> I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
>and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
"Enemies" was actually recorded before "Intuit" but not released until
recently. To really hear what Kurt is about check out "Enemies". To me
listening to Kurt play standards is like listening to say, Joni
Mitchell singing doo-wop- it might be cool but it reveals just one
tiny facet of their art.
>I keep hearing about Ben Monder too. What's a good Ben Monder record?
'Dust' is an amazing record. Very personal, very unique, very
abstract, very intense. There is a solo piece about 7 minutes long
which wears me out with its intensity the same way Gould playing the
English Suites does. His chordal stuff is truly in a class by itself.
>I'd also like to check out some Wolfgang Muthspiel.
He seems to be capable of anything and everything but I've never heard
a record with him just playing some music with a band- there always
seems to be some sort of novelty. Always some great moments but I've
yet to hear an album of music that I really like. "Muthspiel, Peacock,
Muthspiel, Motian" is a free quartet with his t-bone playing brother
which I remember digging at least once. Also Marc Johnson's Right
Brain Patrol album "Magic Labrynth" has some interesting stuff.
Joey Goldstein
Keith Ganz wrote:
>
> Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> >I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
> >the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
> >cold.
>
> The writing is my favorite thing about the album. Some of the most
> personal, natural, creative, pure and hauntingly melodic jazz writing
> I've ever heard. And the arrangements, the use of different sounds and
> textures, and the way the band plays the music reflect such a strong,
> focused and unique vision thoughout every nuance. This album really
> stands out to me as a new piece of music as opposed to the same old
> modern jazz formula which keeps being done over and over where the
> only point is just the blowing.
I can understand why you would feel that way. It just didn't seem like
"my cuppa tea" at the time. I only heard some excerpts from the heads
though, none of the blowing. I'll probably buy it soon anyways just to see.
> > I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
> >and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
>
> "Enemies" was actually recorded before "Intuit" but not released until
> recently. To really hear what Kurt is about check out "Enemies". To me
> listening to Kurt play standards is like listening to say, Joni
> Mitchell singing doo-wop- it might be cool but it reveals just one
> tiny facet of their art.
>
> >I keep hearing about Ben Monder too. What's a good Ben Monder record?
> 'Dust' is an amazing record. Very personal, very unique, very
> abstract, very intense. There is a solo piece about 7 minutes long
> which wears me out with its intensity the same way Gould playing the
> English Suites does. His chordal stuff is truly in a class by itself.
>
> >I'd also like to check out some Wolfgang Muthspiel.
> He seems to be capable of anything and everything but I've never heard
> a record with him just playing some music with a band- there always
> seems to be some sort of novelty. Always some great moments but I've
> yet to hear an album of music that I really like. "Muthspiel, Peacock,
> Muthspiel, Motian" is a free quartet with his t-bone playing brother
> which I remember digging at least once. Also Marc Johnson's Right
> Brain Patrol album "Magic Labrynth" has some interesting stuff.
>
> Keith Ganz
> _____________________________________________________
> Sound clips and info at http://www.mindspring.com/~mushmouth
--
Randy Graves
http://lejazz.simplenet.com/10/us/inter/view3.htm
Michael Vochezer wrote:
>
> http://www.christianrover.de/Englische%20Seiten/ENGLISCH.html
>
> Here's the interview.
>
> Michael
>
> Jerry schrieb:
>
> > A European guitarist whose name I forget has an interview with Kurt on his
> > website. I think he says what pick and strings Kurt uses. They were .13
> > roundwounds I think.
> >
> > E.S.
> > "Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> > news:398642D4...@nowhere.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > Keith Ganz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
> > > > >Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
> > > >
> > > > Check out "Enemies of Energy" to hear Kurt playing HIS music. A desert
> > > > island album for me.
> > >
> > > I probably will eventually but I checked out a few clips on the web and
> > > the writing, although really interesting and complex, left me a little
> > > cold. I heard a snip of him playing How Deep Is The Ocean somewhere else
> > > and decided I'd probably like the older record more.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to check out some of the newer guys who are coming up.
> > >
> > > I keep hearing about Ben Monder too. What's a good Ben Monder record?
> > >
> > > I'd also like to check out some Wolfgang Muthspiel.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile I bought that Rosenwinkel CD second hand via Amazon.com. Only
> > > cost me 8 bucks. But the guy didn't include the liner notes. What a drag.
> > >
> > > > >I like his sound too.
> > > > >Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
> > > > >I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
> > > > >String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using
> > flat-wounds.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like really heavy strings and a very thick pick to me.
> > > >
Thomas F Brown
section line. You can harmonize six out of seven notes in
the scale with one of the triad pairs. For the seventh,
you can either slide one of your triads a half step, or
use a different triad.
This can be used in solo guitar arrangements. You can use
triad pairs to harmonize a melody. It works best if you
can do it over a bass pedal. It works better in a band
situation where you have a bass player. Without that
bass note to anchor and define the prevailing harmony,
the triad pair harmonization doesn't give the same
cool effect.
In article <3986D7DD...@nowhere.net>,
Joey Goldstein
Thomas F Brown wrote:
>
> Big band arrangers often use triad pairs to thicken a horn
> section line. You can harmonize six out of seven notes in
> the scale with one of the triad pairs. For the seventh,
> you can either slide one of your triads a half step, or
> use a different triad.
>
> This can be used in solo guitar arrangements. You can use
> triad pairs to harmonize a melody. It works best if you
> can do it over a bass pedal. It works better in a band
> situation where you have a bass player. Without that
> bass note to anchor and define the prevailing harmony,
> the triad pair harmonization doesn't give the same
> cool effect.
Yeah. Charlie has suggested that I experiment with voicings derived from
the triad pairs but i've been sort of lazy about it. It's rare to find a
voicing that lays well on the fretboard and sounds great too. Easier on
piano. He also suggested playing 2 or 3 note diatonic quartal voicings
on the bottom strings with alternating triads on the top strings. Still
not easy on guitar.
Joe Finn
is great because it tends to get you away from a routine of scalar patterns that
soloists tend to fall into. The example of linking Eb [Eb-G-Bb] with F [F-A-C] that
Joey gives begs the question : why not just wail on C dorian or F mixo ? After all,
we are only one note away....
The answer will be obvious as you play through some of the possibilities.The great
value of this approach is that it opens up the intervalic jumps the you may
otherwise ignore when you think in terms of scale patterns. As a source of fresh
melodic material it's a breath of fresh air. After you run triads in root position
move on to first and second inversions.
This concept also can be applied to non tertial clusters....joe
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Joey Goldstein
Joe Finn wrote:
>
> Thanks, Joey for an enlightening and elucidating post. This linking triads approach
> is great because it tends to get you away from a routine of scalar patterns that
> soloists tend to fall into. The example of linking Eb [Eb-G-Bb] with F [F-A-C] that
> Joey gives begs the question : why not just wail on C dorian or F mixo ? After all,
> we are only one note away....
Mainly because it actually sounds different! As soon as you play a D or
even a Db the texture changes. It won't sound "wrong", just different.
> The answer will be obvious as you play through some of the possibilities.The great
> value of this approach is that it opens up the intervalic jumps the you may
> otherwise ignore when you think in terms of scale patterns.
That's another good reason.
> As a source of fresh
> melodic material it's a breath of fresh air. After you run triads in root position
> move on to first and second inversions.
>
> This concept also can be applied to non tertial clusters....joe
Sure but one of the reasons the triad pairs sound so strong, especially
the major triads, is because they are so familiar sounding.
Having said that, I've also messed around a bit with pairs of sus4, sus2
and susb2 triads. The susb2 triads are interesting.
Csusb2, D susb2, Csusb2, Dsusb2, Csusb2, Dsusb2, Csusb2 etc.
C Db G, D Eb A, Db G C, Eb A D, G C Db, A D Eb, C etc.
Notice how the 3rd iteration begins on a lower pitch than the 2nd iteration.
Have fun. Don't hurt yourself! <g>
Joey Goldstein
of a master check out McCoy Tyner on Passion Dance from the album The
Real McCoy.
The tune is actually based on F & Eb major triads over F7sus4.
On the blowing he uses this triad pair as is and also transposed up 1/2
step, down 1/2 step (aka side-slipping), a tri-tone away from the
original and all sorts of other ways.
Thomas F Brown
voicing triads. If there are four trumpets, the top three play the
triad and the bottom one doubles the melody an octave down. On guitar,
I would just use three-note closed triads, but I actually don't use
this technique on guitar much.
In article <39874308...@nowhere.net>,
Joey Goldstein <joegoldATidirectDOTcom> wrote:
>
>
>Thomas F Brown wrote:
>>
>> Big band arrangers often use triad pairs to thicken a horn
>> section line. You can harmonize six out of seven notes in
>> the scale with one of the triad pairs. For the seventh,
>> you can either slide one of your triads a half step, or
>> use a different triad.
>>
>> This can be used in solo guitar arrangements. You can use
>> triad pairs to harmonize a melody. It works best if you
>> can do it over a bass pedal. It works better in a band
>> situation where you have a bass player. Without that
>> bass note to anchor and define the prevailing harmony,
>> the triad pair harmonization doesn't give the same
>> cool effect.
>
>Yeah. Charlie has suggested that I experiment with voicings derived from
>the triad pairs but i've been sort of lazy about it. It's rare to find a
>voicing that lays well on the fretboard and sounds great too. Easier on
>piano. He also suggested playing 2 or 3 note diatonic quartal voicings
>on the bottom strings with alternating triads on the top strings. Still
>not easy on guitar.
>
Jack A. Zucker
on. I had worked out a bunch of triad pairs not knowing there was a name for
it other than polychords. I originally got the ideas from Coker's patterns
for jazz book...
In my opinion, *THIS* is the true value of this group. (As opposed to
whether Dianna Krall is more hip than DeeDee Bridgewater...)
Jaz
Bob Valentine
>Just wanted to thank you guys for giving me another germ of an idea to work
>on. I had worked out a bunch of triad pairs not knowing there was a name for
>it other than polychords. I originally got the ideas from Coker's patterns
>for jazz book...
>
Another book that deals with this is the 'Linear Improvisation' book published
by Aebersold. Its written by the theory-whiz-kids who also wrote a book on
Trane changes and a book on the 'Augmented Scale in Jazz'.
Bob Valentine
Joey Goldstein
"Jack A. Zucker" wrote:
>
> I had worked out a bunch of triad pairs not knowing there was a name for
> it other than polychords.
Charlie calls these "Double Mambos". He used to call them "Bi-Tonal
Pendulums". <g>
Joey Goldstein
Improvising" or something like that) for a different slant on this.
Julien Emile-Geay
> Just bought this CD today. Real nice playing.
> Lots of triad pairs, which is what I'm working on these days!
>
> I like his sound too.
> Anybody know what kind of gear he uses, or used on this CD?
> I've seen pictures of him with a 335.
> String guages would be nice to know and whether or not he's using flat-wounds.
>
> --
> Regards:
> Joey Goldstein
> Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
> Home Page: http://webhome.idirect.com/~joegold
> Email: <joegold AT idirect DOT com>
He is actually one my favorite guitar players, and I was also quite amazed by
this unusual CD : the very first time I heard him playing standards and be-bop
classics. He plays great, with a beautiful sound, but I'm not that entusiastic
about the rest of the band. I find Michael Kanan quite boring, to say the least,
but fortunately Kurt has the leading role.
I saw him a few times in concert recently in NYC, and I,m not sure how helpful
this might be for you (I'm sorry I dropped all my electric concerns when I
switched to acoustic guitar), but he uses a semi-hollow Epiphone that does not
look really special : the kind of guitar that you can apparently find everywhere.
But he now uses a lot of effects (especially in his band with M.Turner, B. Street
and J.Ballard), and I wonder if he has any MIDI plug or anything. While he is
playing, he uses his feets as much as his hands, constantly switching from one
sound to another, with a relevance that is very characteristic of the guy : it
always sounds GREAT. Obviously he did not use that kind of material for Intuit.
The only thing that might be the same is that he does not currently play with
flat-wounds, although it sounds like.
Hope it can help. I'd prefer to talk about the music in itself : if you liked
this one, buy "East Coast Love Affair" (Fresh Sound New Talent), in trio with
Avishai Cohen and Jorge Rossy. I've listened to this stuff at least every 2 days
for 6 months, and I still find it tremendously good. Probably one of the greatest
jazz guitar albums ever done. Nothing surprising, for it was recorded at
Small's.... Also, try "In this World" by M.Turner if you don't already know it.
Bye
JEG
--
Julien Emile-Geay
Visiting Scholar
Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University
Oceanography 103 b
61 Route 9W. Palisades, NY 10964-8000
Phone (914) 365-8694. Cell phone (917) 678-0902.
icarusi
> In the long run I find it's easier to think about the triad pair as
an
> individual entity in its own right rather than as a subset of a more
> familiar scale.
Presumably that's the point of the name? Is there a 'rule' re how far
apart the triads are before they become a pair of triads rather than a
triad pair? Minor 3rd?
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
icarusi
> Charlie calls these "Double Mambos". He used to call them "Bi-Tonal
> Pendulums". <g>
Is that when he's got his mojo working?
Joey Goldstein
icarusi wrote:
>
> Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:3986D7DD...@nowhere.net...
>
> > In the long run I find it's easier to think about the triad pair as
> an
> > individual entity in its own right rather than as a subset of a more
> > familiar scale.
>
> Presumably that's the point of the name?
Well if you're working on the hexatonic scale that is derived from the
Ebmaj and Fmaj triads and using it over F7 you will quickly see that it
is very much like an F mixolydian scale with the 6th degree omitted.
But if you're using it over Eb7 you might see it as an Eb Lydb7 scale
with the 7th omitted. That's why it's better to visualize the triad pair
itself rather than a subset of the chord-scale of the moment IMO.
> Is there a 'rule' re how far
> apart the triads are before they become a pair of triads rather than a
> triad pair? Minor 3rd?
Not that I'm aware of. The only "rule" in the technique that I'm talking
about is that the two triads do not share any common tones. One of my
favorite pairs of 2 major triads are a tritone apart. Eg. Cmaj and
Gbmaj. Works great anywhere the C half whole scale would fit or even the
altered scale.
Thomas F Brown
icarusi <icar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
>news:3986D7DD...@nowhere.net...
>
>> In the long run I find it's easier to think about the triad pair as
>an
>> individual entity in its own right rather than as a subset of a more
>> familiar scale.
>
>apart the triads are before they become a pair of triads rather than a
>triad pair? Minor 3rd?
I usually use two major triads a whole step apart, but there are
plenty of other variations on the technique.
Thomas F Brown
Joey Goldstein <joegoldATidirectDOTcom> wrote:
>
>> Is there a 'rule' re how far
>> apart the triads are before they become a pair of triads rather than a
>> triad pair? Minor 3rd?
>
>about is that the two triads do not share any common tones. One of my
>favorite pairs of 2 major triads are a tritone apart. Eg. Cmaj and
>Gbmaj. Works great anywhere the C half whole scale would fit or even the
>altered scale.
I also like that one on a diminished scale, except I often run
two four-note arpeggios a tritone apart. Say, descending:
Bb F D B
E B Ab F
Bb F D B
E B Ab F
With the second pair being the same run an octave lower than the first pair.
I think of it conceptually as two 13b9 arpeggios a tritone apart. Or two
7#9 arpeggios a tritone apart. Same thing, enharmonically speaking.