sub dominant minor substitutions
Rick
trouble getting a handle
on the sub dom minor substitution lesson. Anybody know where I might
find more information
on that subject?
Keith Freeman
-Keith
Clips, Portable Changes, tips etc.: www.keithfreemantrio.nl
e-mail: info AT keithfreemantrio DOT nl
Keith Freeman
Emily said, a compositional technique. It helps you when analysing a chart
and you come across a 'what's that chord doing here?'. The easy way to
remember it is that it's any chord that contains the b6 of the scale.
onlyserious
jumps out as a common example of the usage. Samuel
Joey Goldstein
The Chord-Scale Theory And Jazz Harmony by Nettles and Graff has a
decent section on SDM harmony.
Here's the basic idea....
Music in major keys will often borrow notes and chords from the parallel
minor key.
Borrowing from the subdominant area of the minor key is so common that
theorists have decided to give it its own designation of harmonic
function, namely Subdominant Minor Function (SDM).
Usually the chords that delineate a key are said to have one of three
potential harmonic functions with the key, Tonic function (T), Dominant
function (D) or SubDominant function (SD).
That's true in both major and minor keys.
Use of the SDM function designation is really a form of shorthand.
Rather than indicating the borrowing from the parallel minor in the
analysis, which would require a bit more text within the analysis, we
use the SDM designation instead.
In brief; SDM funct chords are chords that occur in music whose primary
key is a major key but that have a similar sound and harmonic function
to the IVm chord.
In minor keys the note that is most characteristic of SD funct chords is
scale degree b6.
The same is true of SDM funct chords when they occur in major keys.
I.e. Look for scale degree b6. (Eg. In the key of C major, many chords
that contain an Ab in them will have SDM function.
Most chords that contain scale degree b6 and do not also contain the
leading tone of the key will have SDM function.
Chords that contain both the leading tone and scale degree b6 are
probably better designated as D funct chords.
The usual suspects that have SDM function, in major keys are:
IVm, IVm7, IVm6, IVm(maj7)*, bVII7, IIdim, IIm7b5, bII, bIImaj7, bII6,
V7sus4b9, bVI, bVImaj7, bVI6 and bVI7.
I hope I didn't miss any of them.
IVm(maj7) is kind of a paradoxical chord in that while it does contain
scale degree b6 it also contains the major mediant, which means that
it's not really from the parallel minor key. Still, it is usually
designated as a SDM funct chord.
Another possible paradoxical candidate for SDM function-hood is the IV7
chord.
In minor keyed music, IV7 comes from the melodic minor scale and it can
have SD function within the minor key.
But it does not contain scale degree b6, which is the main bearer of SD
function in minor keys.
It can also have T function occasionally, since it is so similar to Im6.
So, when IV7 occurs in major-keyed music, I generally consider it to be
"a borrowed chord from the SD area of the parallel minor key" and I'll
designate it as a SDM funct chord.
Hope that helps.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
Paul Mitchell Brown
> IVm(maj7) is kind of a paradoxical chord in that while it does contain
> scale degree b6 it also contains the major mediant, which means that
> it's not really from the parallel minor key. Still, it is usually
> designated as a SDM funct chord.
>
of 'pre-echo' of the succeeding I major chord, kind of like the way
the sus4 of a dominant chord sets up its relative tonic. Also, even
though the iim7b5 doesn't contain the major mediant, it's often
implied via the the most 'inside' scale choice for that chord - the
half diminished scale or locrian #2 mode - and by association, in that
chord's extension to the ninth degree.
jjtko75
> The 3rd bar of the classic "Sleepwalk" that has that minor iv chord
> jumps out as a common example of the usage. Samuel
I think that chord is a bVImaj7 (in the original version), which is a
subdominant minor substitution.
John
Bryce
This is an over simplification of the issue but it's what I know and
it's a ton easier for me to remember.
I don't think of the sub-dominant minor as subdominant or minor. I
think of it as an altered dominant seventh. For example, in the key
of
G the dom7 chord is D7 and the sub-dom-minor is Cmi7b5 (a
simplification) since it contains the Eb. The notes in the tetrad are
C Eb Gb Bb. An altered D7 tetrad contains the notes D F# A C. Alter
the D7 with a b9 and a #5 and get D+7b9, which has the notes Eb (the
b9), F# (the 3rd aka Gb), A# (the #5 aka Bb), and C. So after all of
that fussing the sub-dominant minor tetrad is nothing more than an
altered dominant seventh chord.
Cmi7b5 = D+7b9 = Ddom7#5b9
I find it much easier to just use altered dominant 7 chords (I have a
huge list of them) than to think about minor IV chord substitutions,
etc. So it works for me. So it goes.
Bryce
Joey Goldstein
> it's a ton easier for me to remember.
>
> I don't think of the sub-dominant minor as subdominant or minor. I
> think of it as an altered dominant seventh. For example, in the key of
> G the dom7 chord is D7 and the sub-dom-minor is Cmi7b5
No. It isn't.
IVm7b5 contains the tonal tritone of the key (scale degree 4 plus he
leading tone) so it would most likely be a D function chord in most uses
within this key.
In G major, most Cm7b5 chords are functioning, just as you say, as D7alt
chords. And D7alt in this key is a D funct chord not a SDM chord.
Cm, Cm7, Cm6 and Cm(maj7) would be the SDM funct chords built on that
root in this key.
The min7b5 chord that has SDM function in G major is Am7b5 not Cm7b5.
> (a
> simplification) since it contains the Eb. The notes in the tetrad are
> C Eb Gb Bb. An altered D7 tetrad contains the notes D F# A C. Alter
> the D7 with a b9 and a #5 and get D+7b9, which has the notes Eb (the
> b9), F# (the 3rd aka Gb), A# (the #5 aka Bb), and C. So after all of
> that fussing the sub-dominant minor tetrad is nothing more than an
> altered dominant seventh chord.
>
> Cmi7b5 = D+7b9 = Ddom7#5b9
>
> I find it much easier to just use altered dominant 7 chords (I have a
> huge list of them) than to think about minor vi chord substitutions,
> etc. So for me it works.
>
> Bryce
Bryce
Darn I've been thinking of the Cmin7b5 as a subdominant minor in G
major all this time INCORRECTLY ! Thanks for pointing that out
otherwise I would have kept my crappy notes intact. I fixed my
notebook !
Bryce
Bryce
By the way Joey, thanks for being here. I appreciate your efforts for
this group.
Bryce
David J. Littleboy
"Bryce" <bsuth...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
By the way Joey, thanks for being here. I appreciate your efforts for
this group.
<<<<<<<<<<<
Seconded!
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Joey Goldstein
>
> By the way Joey, thanks for being here. I appreciate your efforts for
> this group.
>
> Bryce
You're quite welcome.
Thanks for thanking me.
No need to thank me for thanking you for thanking me.
To tell the truth... The only reason I post here so often is that I've
got too much time on my hands and I'm too neurotic to use that time for
practising or writing, which is what I should be doing.
Plus, I guess I like listening to myself talk.
It's not some warm and fuzzy altruistic thing for me.
Joey Goldstein
> On 10/12/2010 12:42 AM, Bryce wrote:
>>
>> By the way Joey, thanks for being here. I appreciate your efforts for
>> this group.
>>
>> Bryce
>
> You're quite welcome.
> Thanks for thanking me.
> No need to thank me for thanking you for thanking me.
Oh right...
It was Canadian Thanksgiving yesterday.
That's why every body's so thankful.
:-)
Gerry
> The only reason I post here so often is that I've got too much time on
> my hands and I'm too neurotic to use that time for practising or
> writing, which is what I should be doing.
I assume that makes 100% of us then.
--
-- Gerry
southtexasguitarist
HI Joey,
Thanks for all the in-depth analysis. When I see discussions such as
these it reminds me how many of these concepts I learned from the Joe
Pass Guitar Style book ages ago. He explains iv minor as a way to get
from the IV back to the I.
Joey Goldstein
>
> HI Joey,
>
> Thanks for all the in-depth analysis. When I see discussions such as
> these it reminds me how many of these concepts I learned from the Joe
> Pass Guitar Style book ages ago. He explains iv minor as a way to get
> from the IV back to the I.
Well, yeah, that's often how it's used.
Within an established key, scale degree b6 (the minor submediant, or
"Sb6") has a strong tendency to resolve down to scale degree 5 (the
dominant, or "S5").
And the dominant is very often going to be the 5th of the tonic chord (I).
IVm might also move to some other T funct chord like IIIm. VIm is a less
likely resolution.
The other common move for IVm, or any SDM funct chord, will be to V7 or
some other D funct chord.
Chord progression within a key involves some kind of travel between the
3 basic harmonically functional areas: T D and SD. (SDM is a subcategory
of SD.)
A progression that stays within any single functional area of the key
will not sound like it's "progressing".
So there are really only a small handful of possible harmonic sentences:
D T
SD T (or SDM T in major keys.)
SD (or SDM) D T
D SD (or SDM) T
Anything else that happens within a key is going to involve variations
of the above sentences or chromatic approach chords targeting the
diatonic functional chords of the key.
A common variation of the harmonic sentences above that include SD funct
chords is to have a SDM funct chord follow the SD funct chord.
So:
SD T becomes SD SDM T.
SD D T becomes SD SDM D T.
These variations all involve Sb6 resolving to S5.
SDM moving back to SD is possible too, but it has less of a forward
moving feeling (aka "progression") to it because the resolution of Sb6
to S5 is thwarted by Sb6 moving to S6 instead.
I know you already know all this stuff Clay.
I'm just writing it out because... I really don't know why I'm writing
it all out. OCD?
southtexasguitarist
Yeah, but I don't know all the cool acronyms!
Paul Mitchell Brown
>
> Thanks for all the in-depth analysis. When I see discussions such as
> these it reminds me how many of these concepts I learned from the Joe
> Pass Guitar Style book ages ago. He explains iv minor as a way to get
> from the IV back to the I.
(especially Lennon). It's a defining sound of the era much like minor-
major 7ths scream late '40s - early '50s film noir. It seemed to
disappear in the late '60s and early '70s only to be revived in the
mid '70s (the intro to 10cc's "I'm Not In Love" and much of Billy
Joel's "Just The Way You Are" are the first songs that spring to mind)
where it's often employed to invoke regret or nostalgia for an
earlier, supposedly more innocent age.
Dan Adler
wrote:
How strange, the change, from major to minor.
Maj6th
"Paul Mitchell Brown" <paulmitc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:42360f10-698f-4781...@k10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
I've always used it for getting to the five chord in Italian songs. Ie;
Volarie, it just seems to fit about everywhere in this song.
Maj6th
Gerry
> It seemed to disappear in the late '60s and early '70s only to be
> revived in the
> mid '70s...
News to me. I didn't hink it had dissappeared since the recordings
that feature it in the 20's...
--
-- Gerry
Paul Mitchell Brown
Any idea what the original changes are at that point? Most people play
ivm to bVII7 rather than IV to ivm and I can imagine Cole Porter
purposely turning the chords around to confound expectations.
Paul Mitchell Brown
Well, OK maybe it didn't disappear, just went into hiding for a while.
drthoma...@gmail.com
Lots of Cole Porter songs have iv minors prominently featured. Start
with "All of You", which is all about this sound.