Secrets of the ES 335 Gurus?
Phil
Please help me. I love the feel of my early 90's ES 335. It stays in
tune. It plays in tune. It sustains nicely. The frets and neck are
very comfortable.
It sounds crappy.
I have tried lowering the pickups, raising the pickups, stringing it
with 10's, 11's, etc. I have played it through Fenders (large and
small), Polytones, Henrikksens. It never really sounds good to me.
The neck pickup isn't fat or soulful enough, and the bridge pickup
sounds ratty and coarse. Do I need to replace them? With what? They
are supposedly fairly desirable stock Gibson humbuckers.
How do you make a 335 sound decent?
Thank you
-Phil
Joey Goldstein
In 1990 the Gibson introduced the 57 Classic Humbucker which is the best
humbucker they've ever made except for the early PAF's.
Some 1990 Gibson guitars had 57 Classics on them. Some didn't. Some had
the crappy ones made by Norlin which don't sound nearly as good.
I would expect that any Gibson 335 made after 1991 would have had 57
classics on it as stock. But some of them might have had the 490s on
them, which are not as desirable unless you're after a hot output for
overdriven rock tones.
So, depending on the actual year of your guitar, it might be worth your
while to drop a pair of 57 Classics on it.
Also...
Gibson has sometimes used 300k pots on their guitars even post-Norlin.
Sometimes they even used linear taper pots mostly for the tone control.
You might actually have the 57s on there but with 300k pots. So check
that first. If they are 300k then get some 500k audio taper pots right
away. That'll probably open the tone right up.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
oasysco
Ha! I've been after their dirty little secrets to playing for years!
For years! I've watched them trade secret codes in posts here that
contain the secret to playing well, but they encrypt it such that I
can only get so far.
I've bought most every guitar they've owned and yet I do not sound
like they do. I've used the same strings; nyet... same picks; nada...
bought the same books; zilch... posted to the same NGs; nope.
There's a secret I'm missing and they aren't sharing. Maybe they'll
reveal it to you. Until then, I'm gonna watch some more TV, snack on
greasy popcorn, and snooze on the couch. Let me know what they say :)-
Greg
>
> Thank you
> -Phil
Phil
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Quiet! They'll hear you...
rpguitar
I've been through 3 of them and a 347, and got it right on my 4th.
Then in hindsight, the first one might have been a winner too. But we
live and learn.
The neck pickup should be lowered down so that the metal case is flush
with the plastic mounting ring. Then dial it up about two 360 degree
turns with a screwdriver on the treble side, and one on the bass. The
bridge pickup should then be raised to roughly match (or slightly
exceed) the neck pickup's volume.
Run the pots fully open. I'm sure you have '57 Classics and 500K pots
on that guitar. Norlin left Gibson in 1986. The guitar doesn't have
any of the crappy parts in it; I'd bet on it. 57 Classics are great
and I wouldn't bother swapping them out.
10's sound great, but 11's are fatter and still retain most of the
snappy tone. And they work better with the 24.75" scale length. I
assume your guitar has the standard nickel TOM and saddles, but
check...
Mark Guest
like overtone that I hear in other 335's that I've tried since. Hope
you can figure yours out.
All the best,
Mark Guest
Jazz Guitar
www.myspace.com/markguest
"It's taken me all my life to learn what not to play."
(Dizzy Gillespie)
On Dec 5, 8:49 pm, Phil <pdema...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sean
Give it to Larry Carlton.
Joey Goldstein
> Norlin left Gibson in 1986.
But the 57 Classics were not introduced until 1990.
terra...@gmail.com
> -Phil
Same here with a ( new)175, and it feedbacks( not just the usual
feedback you can expect with a hollow body) at 'appartment volume'.
The replacement they wanted to give me : same thing.
I'm trying to get my money back.
I still have a '64 330 since 1970, I used it for 'everything', never
had a problem, but now the p/u's seem to have lost their brightness.
Rick Ross
<terra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5bf46db7-4ffd-410d...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 6, 2:49 am, Phil <pdema...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Dear 335 Gurus,
<snip>
> I still have a '64 330 since 1970, I used it for 'everything', never
> had a problem, but now the p/u's seem to have lost their brightness.
>
>
neurologically, it is not uncharacteristic to lose some high frequency
sensibility as one ages..
perhaps the "fault dear jazzman is not in our stars but in ourselves." :>)
Phil
>
> - Show quoted text -
Only if he gives me one of his.
Joe Montgomery
for over 30 years...granted, I had my 67 stock orange label most of
that time, then went 335 dry in 2000 until a few months ago, when the
call of my past returned and I got a 2005 model from ebay.
I could not remember what strings I used to use so I bought whatever
was on sale, but then I remembered, GHS Nickel strings...not Boomers
(but they can work for me if necessary)...
Something about nickel...
Also, I use 12's, so right there I'm buying some tone.
Also also, this is a "Memphis" made model, and it's supposed to have
some kind of tone thingy whereby you keep the same tone if you roll
off the volume...seems to work.'' It's a great guitar and I was very
pleasantly surprised.
And as far as myth of orange label, etc., my 67 was clubby and I had
the neck shaved...it had a changed tp, changed tuners, bone nut with
wider spacing...and what wouldn't sound great thru a stock BF 65 Super
Reverb? <grin>
JM
Phil
Thanks Roger. The neck on damn thing is so comfortable to play, and
it intonates REALLY well, so I'll try anything. I do have the nickel
TOM and saddles, and I usually run the pots at full, sometimes I back
off the neck pickup when I use both together. Mine is a '92 by the
serial number.
dennis....@gmail.com
>
> Please help me. I love the feel of my early 90's ES 335. It stays in
> tune. It plays in tune. It sustains nicely. The frets and neck are
> very comfortable.
>
If you feel a need to swap out pickups, here's one player's opinion.
I have a 1986 Custom Shop ES336, purchased new. I swapped out the
neck pickup for a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover (SH-55, I think) that I
have adjusted pretty much as another poster suggested. I had also
tried a Seymour Duncan Jazz, but I didn't care for it.
I can't speak to the bridge pickup. Though I use it from time to
time, I really don't like bridge pickups so I don't care so much about
its sound. Apparently whatever came in it sounds good enough for me.
I've been quite happy with the Seth Lover.
rpguitar
Here's my 335-ology:
1995 Cherry; in retrospect, one of the best of this bunch...
1980 Cherry sb (ES-347); fantastic neck, sucky electronics
1970 Ice tea sb (spitting image of LC's 335); absolutely beautiful but
just didn't "sing"
2001 Blonde; also didn't have the mojo
1967 Cherry; has the whole package - looks, feel, and sound (and
vintage pedigree FWIW)
The '67 and '95 are the best. My '67 has a chunky neck with the
narrow 1 9/16" nut. It has original parts except that a stop tail was
installed early in its life, and its bridge with nylon saddles was
swapped for nickel ones.
These guitars are just smokin', but they do need to be dialed in...
but then, so do all guitars IMHO.
Roger
http://www.rogerplacer.com
http://www.youtube.com/rpguitar
woland99
How is the acoustic sound? I have 335 that had "zingy" tone
to it - due to that little wire piece in front of ABR bridge.
I had it replaced with Nashville and zing is gone. Altho I
must say some of the midrange went with it. I did not like
original pickups so I replaced them with Kent Armstrong P90s.
Joey Goldstein
> On Dec 6, 2:49 am, Phil <pdema...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Dear 335 Gurus,
>>
>> Please help me. I love the feel of my early 90's ES 335. It stays in
>> tune. It plays in tune. It sustains nicely. The frets and neck are
>> very comfortable.
>>
>> It sounds crappy.
>>
>> I have tried lowering the pickups, raising the pickups, stringing it
>> with 10's, 11's, etc. I have played it through Fenders (large and
>> small), Polytones, Henrikksens. It never really sounds good to me.
>> The neck pickup isn't fat or soulful enough, and the bridge pickup
>> sounds ratty and coarse. Do I need to replace them? With what? They
>> are supposedly fairly desirable stock Gibson humbuckers.
>>
>> How do you make a 335 sound decent?
>>
>> Thank you
>
>> -Phil
> Same here with a ( new)175, and it feedbacks( not just the usual
> feedback you can expect with a hollow body) at 'appartment volume'.
> The replacement they wanted to give me : same thing.
You need to sit in a different orientation from your amp.
Try pointing the neck towards the speaker.
> I'm trying to get my money back.
It's not the guitar's fault. All hollowbodies, including laminated ones,
will feed back, even at 'apartment volume'.
> I still have a '64 330 since 1970, I used it for 'everything', never
> had a problem, but now the p/u's seem to have lost their brightness.
You probably have a bad solder joint somewhere.
Phil
>
> - Show quoted text -
It has a good acoustic tone, resonant, more than adequate for quiet
practicing.
gant...@comcast.net
Pickups make a huge difference. I've been through a mess of them!
There seems to be a pretty respectable crop of new humbucking pickups
out there these days. I have a friend who swears by the ones made by
J.M. Rolph - http://www.jmrolph.com/. My buddy wheels and deals
vintage guitars, amps and FX and he has owned his share of old
Gibsons. He claims that Rolph's PAF clones are the closest thing to
the real thing he's encountered. They're also not stupidly
expensive. I have a set of Holmes PAF clones in one of my guitars but
they're big bucks these days, I think.
Also, the amp makes a large difference. My guitars sound like crap
thru Polytones too. I've owned a couple and have never been able to
dial in a sound that made me want to play. I have a couple of nice
tube amps that make my guitars sound so good they're hard to put
down. remember that many of the classic 335 sounds most people love
got played through Dumbles. There are a few new amps available that
come darned close to that sound but they can be expensive.
Good luck!
Gantt
woland99
Try Pyramids strings - I have them on all my guitars - gauge 10 -
(except DA EXL - use Thomastics 13s since Pyramid does not make
13s). Good string - last long and always sound full (not thin)
even on o/w bright guitar.
git...@t-online.de
hi Phil !
even though my guitar is a '63 ES-345 and therefor a little different
from a 335 they share enough common ground for some general
remarks : i have been playing these ES types since 1976 - long time.
it was not Carlton who inspired me initially but BB King. i learned
about
LC only a few months later.
when judging a 335 or 345 i listen to it unamplified, feel
the resonances of neck and body, check the weight ( many are
too heavy) and get a feel for the guitar that way. in my opinion
the pickups ( as long as they are standard, quality fare) can only
enhance what's already in the wood. it might just be that your guitar
does not have the tones you want to hear or maybe you have not
played it long enough to really know how to make it talk the way
you want it to. no 2 of these guitars sound alike. i happen to
prefer an ES that has a slightly woodier, less solid-body tone so
the ES-345 with it's cut up center block (to make room for
the Varitone circuit) was my choice and so far i have not
heard or played an ES 335 type guitar that had a sound as
sweet and warm and FAT as my own ! it has the standard
patent-# pickups, a stop tailpiece and the varitone circuit is
completely bypassed - it's a bad tone sucker. it might not have the
longest sustain for an ES but again, resonance and punch and
sweetness are more important for me.
if you can then go out and try as many other ES types as possible -
just to get a perspective. there is one out there (be it a new one
or an older model, there are good ones from every period) that will
speak to you !
Chickenhead
nearby can be difficult. I went through a lot before finding one I trust.
Make sure it's got the right pots and caps before messing with anything
else. You might want to pull the pups and take a close look -- If you
bought the guitar used, it's entirely possible someone pulled out the Gibby
pups and put some kind of crap pups instead.
My first "real" guitar, which was a Les Paul I bought used from a sleazy
Cambridge, MA, used-guitar shop in the early 70's, had the Gibbie pups
pulled out and replaced with some kind of mystery garbage pups. I suspect
the guitar shop I bought it from was the one that actually did it, and I
suspect they did it while the guitar was on layaway waiting for me to raise
the dough to buy it.
Anyways:
Daveyjazz (a/k/a Dave Barton) has got some fantastic straight-ahead jazz
tones out of an Epiphone Sheraton (basically the same guitar) with an old
Gibson neck pup. Here's his soundclick page
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=768982 .
Not only is he a great player, but I was very impressed with the tone he
got. Really a great straight-ahead jazz sound: Probably the best I've
heard from a semi-hollow 335-type guitar.
I've never liked the bridge pup on 24.75" scale guitars, never had much use
for it, and never thought bridge humbuckers were good for much. Admittedly,
there are rock players who seem to get certain types of good rock lead tones
out of 'em. Never worked for me though. Occasionally, I've found use for a
single-coil bridge pup, or single-coil bridge-out-of-phase with another pup,
especially on 25.5" scale solid-bodies, like strats or telecasters.
Humbuckers sound dreadful at the bridge to me for pretty much anything
except a Dickie Betts lead on a Les Paul or for an EVH lead with a Floyd
Rose on a 25.5" scale axe.
Like dennis.c.oneill, I've had great results with a Duncan Seth Lover neck
pup. I use it for a neck pup in my Dean Stylist Standard. Once I put it
in, I've had no desire to swap it out. You can hear it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyXuIHpU46Q . If you're going to start a
pickup swapping quest, a Duncan Seth Lover or a Gibbie 57' classic would
probably be a good place to start. If you get the Seth, be sure to pay the
extra $ to get the model that includes the nickel pickup cover - I suspect
that it makes a difference, and it's worth it to avoid the headache of
trying to fit a slightly-off-size pickup cover.
I haven't ever gotten a tone I was really happy with out of a semi-hollow,
especially a 24.75" scale one -- But I guess I'm not a 335 convert. I had a
used ES-347 back about 1981 that got a pretty nice blues lead tone, but that
was about the limit of it for me. I usually like either full-hollows or
solid-bodies. However, Dave Barton's clips are getting me to rethink that
position.
<dennis....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3561c0aa-4586-46fe...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Jazz...@gmail.com
> On 6 Dez., 02:49, Phil <pdema...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> hi Phil !
> even though my guitar is a '63 ES-345 and therefor a little different
> from a 335 they share enough common ground for some general
I have a '68 ES-345, and it sings. The best sound from it however is
from a hot, overdriven signal.
From a clean signal, it can be dark sounding. Compared it to a new
335, and the neck was superior. Heck, the whole mojo was by far,
superior.
Along with a 64 strat, it was my main axe on every weekend gigs for
years. Still have recodings of gigs with it, from 25-30 years ago
terra...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the 'solder joint' hint, this is very well possible, this
guitar had to undergo ' surgery' some time ago.
Thanks for the advise about the feedback, but I already knew this, I
never ( later than 1970 ) owned anything but hollowbodies ( I have 5
at this moment ) and have never experienced anything like this
before : it is completely uncontrolable feedback , I guess, regardless
of the price tag it's just a bad guitar.
hw
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:fj97as$471$1...@news.datemas.de...
>
> It's not the guitar's fault. All hollowbodies, including laminated ones,
> will feed back, even at 'apartment volume'.
huh??