Gibson ES 335 for Jazz
Dick Onstenk
At the Crow last Friday I listened to two guitarists that both played ES
335s and they sounded great.
Here are my questions to the omniscient RMMGJ forum:
Was 1990 a good year for ES 335s? You sometimes hear certain years were
not so good for Gibson.
Do you guys feel the ES 335 is good for straight ahead bebop playing?
Any experience with the combination ES 335/Polytone?
Are there any preffereed ES 335 types for straight ahead Jazz playing?
Thanks,
Dick
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Byron Atkins
were
> not so good for Gibson.
>
gigging guitar guitar for at least 10 years. I played a lot of jazz
gigs with it, even took it to Europe in 1979 when I played a few gigs
in Denmark. I played it with a Twin Reverb, Musicman, and also a
Polytone Mini-Brute II. It sounded good
for straignt aheard jazz with the Polytone. Sometimes I used the
Polytone on blues/Jazz/Pop gigs, but the Musicman or Fender were more
versatile.
As for "dot" ES-335s, I only see that the old ones (Dots) 1958-61 are
the real ones. The dot ES-335s are no real big deal unless you're
looking at it from a collection standpoint. Now, the old dots are
worth a lot of bucks. I prefer a smaller neck and some of the old dots
had larger necks. Larry Carlton help popularize the ES-335, but his
guitar was not a dot. As for the later dot reissues, I really don't
know if a certain year is better. I would imagine that the ones the
Gibson Custom shop makes are pretty good.
Byron Atkins
Jay Vyas
jazz, soul-jazz, and (attempts at) bebop, and it sounds great through
any of my amps, including my Polytone MBII.
Before this one, I had a standard production 335 that was actually a
phenomenal playing instrument, but I found the neck a bit thin for my
tastes, so when I played a Historic with the big neck I swapped. The
standard 335 worked great. When I had that, I did not have a
Polytone, so I can't comment on that.
I also had for a while a walnut colored one from the 70's I think with
the trapeze tailpiece. Lot's of people rag on these versions, but
mine was very nice, and I used it extensively, though I was playing
more blues and rock when I owned it.
I think the only one I wouldn't suggest are the ones that come with
Dirty Fingers pickups - the ones I've played were super hot, and I
prefer lower output pickups with more detail.
As far as what year, I think Gibson is reasonably consistent these
days, but was less so in the late 80's and early 90's - I played a lot
of dogs from that era. There are great ones from the 70's, 80's, and
90's, and there are dogs. I think the necks on the production ones
were a little thicker in the late 80's than on the current one, so
your 1990 one might have that trait. (I had a couple late 80's ones
with big necks...)
"Dick Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<9e8b917af1daecce3f8...@mygate.mailgate.org>...
smoy
have a 1980-81' ES-335 dot neck reissue with SD PAF's and was thinking of
reactivating it for jazz style playing. I have a friend/ jazz artist out
here ( who uses a slim neck ES-335 ) through a tube amp with 2 x 10" spks
and he sounds great.He prefers using this gtr especially in a group setting
as it doesn't feedback, and he can take it with him on planes with less
worry about damage.He is using .011 -.049 D'addario strings He also feels
that the gtr is more tolerant when playing at different festivals with
different amp set ups. He can always get his own sound with whatever amp is
given to him.
I was also just re-listening to Emily Remler (retrospective vol one
standards), Rodney Jones ( soul Manifesto, undiscovered few ) and Kurt
Rosenwinkle ( Intuit) who I believe use the 335 and equivalents for their
live playing and recordings. I have another friend here who has been using
one , playing fingerstyle jazz, ( great harmony player) through a Roland JC
120 jazz chorus. In the audience sitting about 12 ft away it sounds very
fat, and clear.When I sat in , the bandstand tone was a bit dark as he plays
with the tone controls rolled down also.He has this gtr strung with
.012 -.052 flatwounds. and plays very nice , the neck does feel different
than my 335.
To my ears , the 335 tone is not as "fat" as the archtop sound, my guess is
that you could use a combination of speakers to help fatten up the tone ( eg
two 12's or thereabouts.) and that you may have to readjust a little esp if
you are used to playing an archtop.
Skip
"Dick Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:9e8b917af1daecce3f8...@mygate.mailgate.org...
Michael Ellenberger
> GAS-attack. Saw a 1990 Gibson red ES 335 dot for sale.
Unfortunately, there is always a guitar for sale somewhere.
>
> At the Crow last Friday I listened to two guitarists that both played ES
> 335s and they sounded great.
Dick, all guitars sound great especially in the hands of a competent
player;-}
>
> Here are my questions to the omniscient RMMGJ forum:
>
> Was 1990 a good year for ES 335s? You sometimes hear certain years were
> not so good for Gibson.
> Do you guys feel the ES 335 is good for straight ahead bebop playing?
> Any experience with the combination ES 335/Polytone?
The 335 seems quite trebly compared to what my ears are accustomed to
these days. It's a good match with the polytone since they are so dark
sounding.
> Are there any preffereed ES 335 types for straight ahead Jazz playing?
The preferred type of ES335 for jazz is an L5. Have fun and good luck.
I still have my 335 (not a dot) but I've become partial to hollow
bodies for jazz.
Mike
Mike Ellenberger
Listen to some soundclips at
http://home.att.net/~grumpmeister/MikesJazzPage.html
Bob Russell
grumpm...@worldnet.att.net wrote on 4/16/02 12:58 AM:
> The preferred type of ES335 for jazz is an L5.
Maybe *your* preferred type is an L5; my 335 gets me a nice round sound
without feedback hassles.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
Bob Russell
Onstenk at d.on...@chello.nl wrote on 4/15/02 4:56 PM:
> Do you guys feel the ES 335 is good for straight ahead bebop playing?
> Any experience with the combination ES 335/Polytone?
> Are there any preffereed ES 335 types for straight ahead Jazz playing?
Dick:
I've used a 335 for jazz for about 17 years and have gotten what I feel are
very good sounds out of it. It all depends on what your idea of a good sound
is; if your model for good tone is the "like an acoustic but louder" ideal,
then a 335 won't do that. If a darker "set-in pickup" sound is what you
like, then a 335 can certainly do that.
Some great players have used 335-style guitars. Grant Green used a 330 quite
a bit. Emily Remler used a 345 or 355 (I forget which). Remo Palmier used a
355 in his later years, if I remember correctly. Mick Goodrick used an old
Epiphone Sheraton for his work with Gary Burton and others up into the '80s.
Mike DeMicco uses a 335-style guitar.
Bottom line is, what do you think? If you've heard guys sounding good on
335s, and if you sound good on a 335, who cares what anyone else thinks?
Feed your GAS! :)
Thom_j.
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B8E13162.1F88%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Thom_j.
Michael Ellenberger
Bob you're right about the feedback. I couldn't resist ribbing Dick a
little. I got my 335 in 1967 and still pull it out occasionally.
Mike
--
smoy
one of my students brought over an ES-345 over during a lesson, the gtr
itself needed a bit of work, we compared gtrs.. To me the neck had the same
feel and we could make both sound very similar despite the fact that I have
SD PAF's and the other came with stock Gibson p/u and both were strung up
differently. It would seem that this style of gtr is not as temperamental
to enviromental factors as my archtops.it even sounded good through the
polytone mini brute that we played on. I'd like to second what Bob has
commented here:
if your model for good tone is the "like an acoustic but louder" ideal,
> then a 335 won't do that. If a darker "set-in pickup" sound is what you
> like, then a 335 can certainly do that.
I think the 335 will sound great for some upcoming gigs that I will be doing
with an organ trio.
Skip
>
>
Bob Russell
wrote on 4/17/02 1:46 AM:
> I think the 335 will sound great for some upcoming gigs that I will be doing
> with an organ trio.
> Skip
I used to try to do the big archtop thing; I really did. I finally decided
that it just isn't practical for me. My 335 gets me a good sound without
woofiness or feedback at "noisy club" volumes. I've been using it for so
long that playing it always feels like jumping into a nice warm swimming
pool to me.
I grew up in the age of the solidbody. Hell, they've been around since the
late '30s and they've been mass-produced since the late '40s; they're hardly
"new-fangled" anymore. I use an ASAT Deluxe for most of what I do these
days, even jazz gigs. But the 335 seems to me to be a sensible compromise
between solid and hollow; even though the ASAT's doing a great job for me, I
still love my 335 and I still take it out on gigs pretty often.
Those archtops are beautiful guitars, though. I can certainly see why many
players get so attached to them. I've had a couple myself and will probably
have another one at some point. I think people get too worked up about it
sometimes. I once recorded two nights of a gig in the same place with the
same band. The first night, I used my 335; the second night, I used a
Heritage 575. When I listened to the recordings, I was surprised at how
little difference it really made. Sounded like me either way!
Doug Allen
"mini 335." It is very similar to the discontinued ES-336.
I was interested in another smaller, semi-hollow guitar, the Heritage
Prospect Standard or Blues Deluxe, both have a 15" lower bout (16" on a
335). But, the CS-336 is smaller yet, only 14", close to a Les Paul's
12".
I have an '82 ES-335 dot re-issue (a superbly crafted instrument) it's
my main axe. But the manageability of small bodied guitar is often
convenient -- and preferred!
Here's a link to a CS-336 on eBay, nice photos:
~ eBay item 858668044 (Ends Apr-17-02 17:02:05 PDT ) - 2002 Gibson CS
336-Unsold in Box & Flamey !
Thom_j.
reveiws available on this guitar? tia.. thom_j.
"Doug Allen" <imlo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10435-3C...@storefull-2391.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Wolfe Axe
The Heritage Millennium series guitars are hollow under the pickups, begin at
around $1200 & are only 1/4" larger than a LP.
Jay Wolfe
smoy
Just a bit more on the applications of a 335 type guitar.check out
this gear list that Rodney is using and listen to the downloads.
Skip
http://www.soulmanifesto.com/Gear.htm
Bob Russell <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<B8E28ADE.2069%bobrus...@hotmail.com>...
Mark Smart
>
> At the Crow last Friday I listened to two guitarists that both played ES
> 335s and they sounded great.
>
> Here are my questions to the omniscient RMMGJ forum:
>
> Was 1990 a good year for ES 335s? You sometimes hear certain years were
> not so good for Gibson.
> Do you guys feel the ES 335 is good for straight ahead bebop playing?
> Any experience with the combination ES 335/Polytone?
> Are there any preffereed ES 335 types for straight ahead Jazz playing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick
Gibson has been making 335's the last few years with the "1960 slim
taper" neck, which is very slender from the fingerboard to the back,
like a Les Paul Classic. So if you want a skinny neck, this might be
the way to go. I have never owned a real 335 because of the price, but
I had a Korean Sheraton for a while that I liked a lot. Great tone,
but with more sustain and less feedback. Also, the thin body and
larger-area top makes them more comfortable for me than a regular
fat-bodied archtop with a smaller-area top.
Another advantage: they are much easier to play in the high register
than either a regular jazzbox or a Les Paul.
Mark Smart
Greg D
I don't see any reviews, yet, but the thing is relatively brand new,
is made of solid, carved woods and lists for about $4,500.
http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/pressrelease/2002/jan15a.html
http://www.gibsoncustom.com/custom/cs336.html
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/CS336-FC.htm
Do you remember the movie "FireStarter", wherein a young girl had the
ability to start fires with her mind. Well, Mr. GasStarter, it seems
you have a similar ability using just your posts!
Greg
Greg D
> >I was interested in another smaller, semi-hollow guitar, the Heritage
>
> The Heritage Millennium series guitars are hollow under the pickups, begin at
> around $1200 & are only 1/4" larger than a LP.
Yes, but are the Millenium's (Millenium, SAE, H-155 and H-158) shaped
like an LP and don't they use laminate woods (on the semi-hollows)?
These CS-336 is shaped like an ES-335 using solid, carved woods.
BTW, the H-158 is gorgeous!!!! Of any LP type, the only one I ever
really thought of was that one that custom job that Gibson had that
was semi-hollow, but now I see that Heritage has the same thing.
Greg
>
> Jay Wolfe
Thom_j.
read up on it.. Thanx again :) thom_j.
On me as Mr GasStarter? lol shhhh I am getting paid to do
it.. hahaha :) only j/k. I just enjoy all gear and new stuff that
comes out & it appears many also do here too. In my early
years I had the luxory of trying all kinds of amps, preamps,
pedals, mulit-effects boards, racks. etc as our agent was a
super' dude and rich..lol Also he could right most of it off
but those days are long gone now. The ride was fun while
it lasted tho'.. :)
"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:293e6062.02041...@posting.google.com...
Byron Atkins
I believe Emily Remler played a ES 330 but had the pick-ups changed to
humbuckers. It seems Tony Purrone used to play a ES- 335. Randy
Johnson plays a Gulid version of one. The Gibson 335s are great
guitars for the high register. At one time (in the 1970s) I knew
several very good Texas Jazz guitarists from the Austin area that were
using 335s, namely Fred Walter and Mitch Watkins (Mitch had an old
Dot). Fred still plays his. I think Steve Masakowski used to play one
and also believe that his custom 7 string is designed a bit after the
335. The scale length 24 3/4 is a very comfortable one. I have no big
problem going from my Byrdland to my 335, however the switch from a
Byrdland to my Bendetto seems drastic.
Byron Atkins
Wolfe Axe
The Heritage H158 & SAE (same as 158, but with an acoustic pickup also) are the
only Millenniums with lam. body. The 155, Std. Ultra, DC, etc. are all solid
carved body guitars. The H158, BTW, is a terrific guitar with excellent tone.
I'm really impressed with it, and the price is same as the H535 & Prospect
models.
Jay Wolfe
pabd...@satx.rr.com
Gibson. However, mine has held up very well, with none of the
fit/finish problems that you hear so much about. It sounds beautiful
in any position on the neck. I talked to a support technician at
Gibson about this, and here is what he had to say.
There are many more great guitars produced in "bad model years" in the
70s than poor guitars. It's just that the percentage of poor guitars
is higher in those years than in other years. Likewise, there are
plenty of problem guitars made in the "good model years". The bottom
line is you have to examine the guitar and play it. Better yet, have
it appraised by a professional at a shop you trust. This is exactly
why I have never understood how anyone can buy a guitar over ebay,
especially an old expensive one.
To specifically answer your question, 90 was supposed to be a good
year for Gibson.
As for whether a 335 is appropriate for Be-Bop, I can't imagine why
you would use that guitar for straight ahead jazz. The 335 is great
for blues, and servicable enough for some jazz, but it won't get the
sound you are looking for. This guitar has humbucker pickups which
get a great "biting" sound. You want a single coil pickup for a
"nasally" sound. You don't need two pickups, a single pickup model
would be perfect for the type music you want. The 335 is semi hollow
body, and relatively thin. For the sound you want, you need a big fat
hollowbody arch top. The 335 is not particularly cheap, if you are
going to spend big bucks you might as well get the guitar you want.
Now, if you are playing bebop and other types of music, and want to do
it with one guitar, you will have to compromise, and then maybe the
335 is the best compromise, it depends on the other types of music you
are going to play.
Good luck.
Philip
funkle
AS80 with .011 Chromes on it. It is warm and dark, while still
retaining a kind of bouncy, woody brightness, definately not a solid
body brightness. It is very mellow, without being muddy. I think that
a full sized hollowbody can have a more open, kind of sound where you
can really hear the wood-box construction. The Ibanez AS guitars are
certainly worth checking out. They are very high quility instruments,
particularly the ones made in Japan in the early 80s (AS100, AS200).
Many people (myself included) feel that they are of a consistantly
higher quality than many of the Gibson or Epiphone 335s - and you can
buy 3 for the price of a 335!
The size of the 335 style guitar is a plus as well. There are smaller
versions of the semi-hollow that may be worth considering: See my web
site:
Peter Anagnostos
too. I have it strung with 10s and get a good tone. My H is a good buy
also. Much better, I think, than G.
Peter Anagnostos