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Real Book Solution?
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charlieguitar
May 27, 2016, 12:34:30 PM5/27/16
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We have all experienced this one: You buy a new Real Book, the one with the plastic binder, and all is well for a few weeks. Then the back cover falls off and within a few more weeks
You're Nobody Until Somebody Loves You is staring up at you from the floor while the rest of the Y's are torn halfway down letting you know that total destruction of the book is just around the corner. Has anyone found an answer to this problem?
Charlie
You're Nobody Until Somebody Loves You is staring up at you from the floor while the rest of the Y's are torn halfway down letting you know that total destruction of the book is just around the corner. Has anyone found an answer to this problem?
Charlie
Tim McNamara
May 27, 2016, 12:42:23 PM5/27/16
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First, I now have all my sheet music in an iPad Pro.
Second, back when I toted my Real Books around I took them to OfficeMax
and had them bind them with heavy protective plastic covers, laminating
the original cover and putting a tough plastic page at the end of the
book. I think it may be possible, although I didn't ask, to get a metal
rather than plastic comb somewhere (although that would have its own
problems). They held up much better after getting better covers.
My bassist cut all the pages out of his books and carries them in an
accordion folder, filed alphabetically. I think he decided to beat it
to the punch.
charlieguitar
May 27, 2016, 12:46:14 PM5/27/16
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Nil
May 27, 2016, 2:15:54 PM5/27/16
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On 27 May 2016, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in
rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz:
> Second, back when I toted my Real Books around I took them to
> OfficeMax and had them bind them with heavy protective plastic
> covers, laminating the original cover and putting a tough plastic
> page at the end of the book.
I did a similar thing way back when, when my 5th Edition (1978) started
to rip apart... new plastic combs and plastic covers. I also had them
split it into two volumes so each one was lighter and less likely to
tear itself apart from the weight. It's still in decent shape.
rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz:
> Second, back when I toted my Real Books around I took them to
> OfficeMax and had them bind them with heavy protective plastic
> covers, laminating the original cover and putting a tough plastic
> page at the end of the book.
to rip apart... new plastic combs and plastic covers. I also had them
split it into two volumes so each one was lighter and less likely to
tear itself apart from the weight. It's still in decent shape.
Nate Najar
May 27, 2016, 2:16:15 PM5/27/16
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Ditch the real book?
rpjazzguitar
May 27, 2016, 2:37:24 PM5/27/16
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On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:16:15 AM UTC-7, Nate Najar wrote:
> Ditch the real book?
My nearly 40 year old real book is in 3 ring binder format and falling apart. If I cared, I'd probably have to put each tune in a separate sheet protector. The book would be very thick (think auto parts store catalog rack) and heavy.
My solution: unless I'm going to have to play melodies I don't know, I use IRealPro on my phone. Chord symbols only. Very rarely, I bring the old, tattered RB.
If I had to be playing melody on random RB tunes on a regular basis (so I needed the charts) I'd probably carry a tablet computer and put the full RB on it with the electronic indexing (floating around the net). The big advantage of the RB is that the bulk of the tunes are only a single page. There are some two-facing-page tunes, but they'd probably be large enough to read on a tablet 2-page view.
If I had a brand new hardcopy RB that I knew was going to be put through hell, I'd consider recopying it on heavy paper, having a metal spiral binding and heavy covers put on. The only problem there is that, after a page falls out, there's no good way to get it back in. You'd have to recopy it, punch it, and take the spiral apart with the machine to insert one page.
A comment on IRealPro: It has all the tunes and more. I was listening to a jam the other day where the guys were calling tunes I'd think of as obscure. IRealPro had every one. Not that you'd want to go up on the bandstand and have to read them -- but, on a gig, it would help. The IRealPro arrangements and changes are the same as the Real Book. It seems to have the corrections the later RB versions made. There are no page turns in IRealPro, but, the font can get pretty small when they have to squeeze a tune in.
It's a good practice tool, with decent sounding backing and transposition and tempo-change options, among other things. 10 bucks.
> Ditch the real book?
My nearly 40 year old real book is in 3 ring binder format and falling apart. If I cared, I'd probably have to put each tune in a separate sheet protector. The book would be very thick (think auto parts store catalog rack) and heavy.
My solution: unless I'm going to have to play melodies I don't know, I use IRealPro on my phone. Chord symbols only. Very rarely, I bring the old, tattered RB.
If I had to be playing melody on random RB tunes on a regular basis (so I needed the charts) I'd probably carry a tablet computer and put the full RB on it with the electronic indexing (floating around the net). The big advantage of the RB is that the bulk of the tunes are only a single page. There are some two-facing-page tunes, but they'd probably be large enough to read on a tablet 2-page view.
If I had a brand new hardcopy RB that I knew was going to be put through hell, I'd consider recopying it on heavy paper, having a metal spiral binding and heavy covers put on. The only problem there is that, after a page falls out, there's no good way to get it back in. You'd have to recopy it, punch it, and take the spiral apart with the machine to insert one page.
A comment on IRealPro: It has all the tunes and more. I was listening to a jam the other day where the guys were calling tunes I'd think of as obscure. IRealPro had every one. Not that you'd want to go up on the bandstand and have to read them -- but, on a gig, it would help. The IRealPro arrangements and changes are the same as the Real Book. It seems to have the corrections the later RB versions made. There are no page turns in IRealPro, but, the font can get pretty small when they have to squeeze a tune in.
It's a good practice tool, with decent sounding backing and transposition and tempo-change options, among other things. 10 bucks.
charlieguitar
May 28, 2016, 12:06:27 AM5/28/16
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Thanks for the advice. I have Irealpro on both my phone and iPad but I need the traditional fake books for learning melody lines on some tunes especially the more modern ones. The melody lines are fairly accurate as compared to the changes which, as we all know, can be all over the place. Also, the full sized pages are nice when reading. Thus I'm still stuck with the books. I have had ones with metal binders they are just as bad. I can't remember how they were bound years ago but it seemed that they lasted longer.
Charlie
Charlie
charlieguitar
May 28, 2016, 12:16:00 AM5/28/16
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When it comes to standards If I have heard them before I can usually play them but something like Inner Urge isn't going to come off the top of my head. One doesn't always have time to learn them off of the recordings which brings us back to the books.
Charlie
Charlie
charlieguitar
May 28, 2016, 12:39:50 AM5/28/16
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P.S. I believe that learning them from the recordings is the best way for accuracy but as was explained before this isn't always possible.
Charlie
Charlie
rpjazzguitar
May 28, 2016, 5:03:07 AM5/28/16
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On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 9:39:50 PM UTC-7, charlieguitar wrote:
> P.S. I believe that learning them from the recordings is the best way for accuracy but as was explained before this isn't always possible.
> Charlie
Whose version? The original versions of American Songbook tunes may not have the changes that have been popularized in jazz, and the jazz world has different versions of many standards. You can be right, and so can the pianist you're clashing with.
> P.S. I believe that learning them from the recordings is the best way for accuracy but as was explained before this isn't always possible.
> Charlie
And, if everybody else is playing RB changes (which are wrong) you don't want to be the only guy on the gig who is right.
charlieguitar
May 28, 2016, 8:21:15 AM5/28/16
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Charlie
Nate Najar
May 28, 2016, 1:06:19 PM5/28/16
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I don't want to be on the gig with the guys who are blindly playing the real book changes. Part of ensemble playing is everyone getting together on the correct harmony, or some variation on correct, and it doesn't work when the bass player and or piano player has his nose buried in his iPad. At that point you're not making music anyway....
Better to only play tunes the guys actually know, or enough guys in the group actually "know" the tune that the others can pick it up from listening, but everyone is listening to each other and reacting appropriately.
It drives me absolutely batty when a bass player or guitar player sits in and pulls out an iPad or real book type thing and not only do they blindly play what's on the screen without regard for what's happening around them, they also play the same half assed turnarounds on the screen instead of dynamically playing with the ensemble. The other problem with blindly playing real book changes is that it boxes in the soloist/melody player in a pretty damaging way. Unless he ignores the rhythm section and does his own thing. That isn't what playing music is about!
Better to only play tunes the guys actually know, or enough guys in the group actually "know" the tune that the others can pick it up from listening, but everyone is listening to each other and reacting appropriately.
It drives me absolutely batty when a bass player or guitar player sits in and pulls out an iPad or real book type thing and not only do they blindly play what's on the screen without regard for what's happening around them, they also play the same half assed turnarounds on the screen instead of dynamically playing with the ensemble. The other problem with blindly playing real book changes is that it boxes in the soloist/melody player in a pretty damaging way. Unless he ignores the rhythm section and does his own thing. That isn't what playing music is about!
charlieguitar
May 28, 2016, 1:42:42 PM5/28/16
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Charlie
rpjazzguitar
May 28, 2016, 5:22:42 PM5/28/16
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To hijack the thread a bit ...
Occasionally, I have played with a pianist who reharmonized on the fly.
I don't have big enough ears to follow a lot of what he did. So, I had to lay out some of the time. At times, I could hear what he was doing or I could manage with 3rds and 7ths, if he was just adding tensions, but, a lot of the time, he was modulating key, so it didn't work. I couldn't follow it by ear. And, he didn't do the same thing every chorus.
Even when I could hear, say, that he reharmed a long ii-V by simply modulating up a half step -- he wasn't predictable with it. At best, I'd have to wait and hear what he did.
Interestingly, I recently attended a workshop taught by two players (keys and guitar) whose names you might know and I asked them if, when the other guy started playing "out", if they always knew what he was doing. They both said no. The kb guy said that he'd try to pick up a single note of what the guitar was doing and try to extrapolate as best he could.
I understand the goal -- to have well trained ears, listen hard and cooperate. I'd say the skill level involved in doing that effectively rises when you add a second chord instrument. It's much easier to play when there's no piano.
Even guitarists often acknowledge that the piano comes first and the guitar needs to somehow color and enhance. In that situation, you have to try to figure out the pianist's harmonic content while phrasing with the rhythmic content, while keeping the guitar from making mud with the frequency spectrum and keeping track of the soloist's harmonic and rhythmic content -- and not forgetting about the bass and drums. I guess it's a little easier than that sounds, but maybe not much easier.
At the intermediate level or playing a tune that not everybody knows well, there will be somebody reading and that throws another bit of debris in the gears.
It's my impression that the skillset where you know the same 500 or so tunes that all the other players know -- and you don't care what key you're in -- well, that's less common than it used to be.
Occasionally, I have played with a pianist who reharmonized on the fly.
I don't have big enough ears to follow a lot of what he did. So, I had to lay out some of the time. At times, I could hear what he was doing or I could manage with 3rds and 7ths, if he was just adding tensions, but, a lot of the time, he was modulating key, so it didn't work. I couldn't follow it by ear. And, he didn't do the same thing every chorus.
Even when I could hear, say, that he reharmed a long ii-V by simply modulating up a half step -- he wasn't predictable with it. At best, I'd have to wait and hear what he did.
Interestingly, I recently attended a workshop taught by two players (keys and guitar) whose names you might know and I asked them if, when the other guy started playing "out", if they always knew what he was doing. They both said no. The kb guy said that he'd try to pick up a single note of what the guitar was doing and try to extrapolate as best he could.
I understand the goal -- to have well trained ears, listen hard and cooperate. I'd say the skill level involved in doing that effectively rises when you add a second chord instrument. It's much easier to play when there's no piano.
Even guitarists often acknowledge that the piano comes first and the guitar needs to somehow color and enhance. In that situation, you have to try to figure out the pianist's harmonic content while phrasing with the rhythmic content, while keeping the guitar from making mud with the frequency spectrum and keeping track of the soloist's harmonic and rhythmic content -- and not forgetting about the bass and drums. I guess it's a little easier than that sounds, but maybe not much easier.
At the intermediate level or playing a tune that not everybody knows well, there will be somebody reading and that throws another bit of debris in the gears.
It's my impression that the skillset where you know the same 500 or so tunes that all the other players know -- and you don't care what key you're in -- well, that's less common than it used to be.
TD
May 29, 2016, 1:57:40 PM5/29/16
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TD
Gerry
Jun 7, 2016, 10:29:59 PM6/7/16
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my company. There was very heavy cardboard on the outside covers. I
punched them with a company punch (you can find what you need at any
temp-office type shop, and they worked fine. I did lose or damage the
last few pages of some.
I also did this with books that were just to damned fat for such
binding, fatter than real books, like a 1001 broadway tunes, and and
old book on Latin rhythm on drumset. I split them roughly in half and
bound them, again in this heavy cardboard, and they worked fine from
that point on.
charlieguitar
Jun 9, 2016, 9:25:03 PM6/9/16
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Thx.
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